Josh Gray

[Mr Bread]

I'm insinuating that the plan for Gray all along was to replace Angel. When Angel stayed it cooled both sides. And likely the whole time Weber was saving one scholarship for Orris.

Regardless, however we signed Orris and not Gray, it was a mistake.

oscar has repeatedly gone on record as saying that the primary thing that went wrong for him at Illinois was that he was trying to please others (fans, media, administration) in recruiting rather than recruiting his kind of guys.  Maybe the Orris over Gray decision is just an illustration of oscar sticking to lessons learned at Illinois.  Picking the guy he wanted rather than the guy the fans wanted.

[kso_FAN]

I think the problem was oscar had some dumb sense of loyalty for Orris. I hope he looks at the situation now and sees that he screwed up by not going after Gray. I mean if Orris can't crack minutes at the 2 from Spradling and Tay, that's a really bad sign.

[kougar24]

Beyond that, I don't care how limited the sample size or how crucial the situation; when Orris has played, he's been possibly the worst player on the court for either team--this includes the Washburn game.

[Skipper44]

I think the problem was oscar had some dumb sense of loyalty for Orris. I hope he looks at the situation now and sees that he screwed up by not going after Gray. I mean if Orris can't crack minutes at the 2 from Spradling and Tay, that's a really bad sign.

Isn't Orris a complete non shooter? wasn't he like the 3rd leading scorer on his high school team? 

[kso_FAN]

shocked to see ISU (not good team) be unable to overcome poor 3 pt shooting (again) and lose (again). 

To this point, it is an interesting game to see the value of shot selection, making 2PT shots, and FT rate and %.

ISU shot 51 shots. 12-28 on 2s (.429), 6-23 on 3s (.261) for an eFG% of .412. 42 points.
Tech shot 51 shots. 17-38 on 2s (.447), 3-13 on 3s (.231) for an eFG% of .422. 43 points.

Basically a wash.

ISU shot 15 FTs (FT rate of .294) and made 9 (.600). Tech shot 19 FTs (FT rate of .372) and made 13 (.684).

Tech had the OR% advantage (.212-.088) but ISU had the TO% advantage (.164-.212). Again, basically a wash.

The combo of FT rate and making them won Tech the game.

[Mr Bread]

I think the problem was oscar had some dumb sense of loyalty for Orris. I hope he looks at the situation now and sees that he screwed up by not going after Gray. I mean if Orris can't crack minutes at the 2 from Spradling and Tay, that's a really bad sign.

I don't buy that.  Orris was committed to Creighton then decommitted and committed to Illinois and then decommitted.  He had other options.  Weber didn't need to do him any favors.  Weber wanted him.  Targeted him while at Illinois, lost him to Creighton and then got him back, then got fired so lost him again and then got him back again.  That's some pretty dedicated pursuit. 

[CNS]

I think the problem was oscar had some dumb sense of loyalty for Orris. I hope he looks at the situation now and sees that he screwed up by not going after Gray. I mean if Orris can't crack minutes at the 2 from Spradling and Tay, that's a really bad sign.

Isn't Orris a complete non shooter? wasn't he like the 3rd leading scorer on his high school team?

Oh man, he's our Tyler Self minus the benefit of being able to seamlessly slide cash to teammates.

[kso_FAN]

I think the problem was oscar had some dumb sense of loyalty for Orris. I hope he looks at the situation now and sees that he screwed up by not going after Gray. I mean if Orris can't crack minutes at the 2 from Spradling and Tay, that's a really bad sign.

I don't buy that.  Orris was committed to Creighton then decommitted and committed to Illinois and then decommitted.  He had other options.  Weber didn't need to do him any favors.  Weber wanted him.  Targeted him while at Illinois, lost him to Creighton and then got him back, then got fired so lost him again and then got him back again.  That's some pretty dedicated pursuit. 

Yeah, there is something about Orris that he definitely likes. I have yet to see what that is.

[CNS]

Bread, what is Bruces history or stance on Franking kids?

[EMAWesome]

I think the problem was oscar had some dumb sense of loyalty for Orris. I hope he looks at the situation now and sees that he screwed up by not going after Gray. I mean if Orris can't crack minutes at the 2 from Spradling and Tay, that's a really bad sign.

I don't buy that.  Orris was committed to Creighton then decommitted and committed to Illinois and then decommitted.  He had other options.  Weber didn't need to do him any favors.  Weber wanted him.  Targeted him while at Illinois, lost him to Creighton and then got him back, then got fired so lost him again and then got him back again.  That's some pretty dedicated pursuit. 

Yeah, there is something about Orris that he definitely likes. I have yet to see what that is.

None of us have seen enough to Love/Hate Orris at this point IMO. I'm guessing he is a pure run the offense, play good D, non-scoring PG...he'll get Martavious minutes next year I'd figure

[EMAW4life-JHL]

after this season and the next, Kstate basketball is completely and utterly mumped.

[kso_FAN]

None of us have seen enough to Love/Hate Orris at this point IMO.

Yeah, I get that. But him not redshirting but also not being able to come close to meaningful minutes as a frosh says a lot. Will played A LOT as a FR.

[sonofdaxjones]

As has been noted, but seemingly needs to be noted again . . . is that the average Frankite gets a little nervous if a Freshman doesn't come in and show well right out of the gate.   Now, I have no idea if Orris is even capable of playing major conference D1 ball or not. 

But the average Frankite is honed on the fact that Freshman needed to come in and show something because of the massive peaks and valleys of Frank's recruiting, the regular Franking's because Frank made poor choices in recruiting . . . and are also jaded by Bob Huggins bringing in 2 of the top Freshman in the country, that Frank coached to a 4th place finish in conference and a weekend at the NCAA tourney. 

[CNS]

We can't get a read on Orris because he only plays when the walk ons play, which in turn gives us a read on Orris.  Especially given how limited we are at guard. 

This kid isn't challenging Angel for anything any time in this life time.  Not only that, but he isn't challenging Will either, which is enough reason to Frank him.

We have Franked a long list of guards over the last 5 yrs that were all much better than Orris.

[catzacker]

I think the problem was oscar had some dumb sense of loyalty for Orris. I hope he looks at the situation now and sees that he screwed up by not going after Gray. I mean if Orris can't crack minutes at the 2 from Spradling and Tay, that's a really bad sign.

I don't buy that.  Orris was committed to Creighton then decommitted and committed to Illinois and then decommitted.  He had other options.  Weber didn't need to do him any favors.  Weber wanted him.  Targeted him while at Illinois, lost him to Creighton and then got him back, then got fired so lost him again and then got him back again.  That's some pretty dedicated pursuit. 

Yeah, there is something about Orris that he definitely likes. I have yet to see what that is.

None of us have seen enough to Love/Hate Orris at this point IMO. I'm guessing he is a pure run the offense, play good D, non-scoring PG...he'll get Martavious minutes next year I'd figure

If this is your determination, then yeah, I think we’ve all seen enough. And in comparison to Gray, it’s an unforgiveable sin if that’s the type of player we “expect” Orris to be. JFC, you're saying he's not going to be a scorer - and I'm supposed to love that, especially in comparison to the SCORER that oscar didn't want?

[EMAWesome]

None of us have seen enough to Love/Hate Orris at this point IMO.

Yeah, I get that. But him not redshirting but also not being able to come close to meaningful minutes as a frosh says a lot. Will played A LOT as a FR.

Yes, true...But Sprads got minutes over guys like Devon Patterson, Juevol Myles & a SO Irving...not exactly the same as taking minutes away from Angel & a SR Irving (just to be fair). Redshirting seems to have made the most sense

[catzacker]

As has been noted, but seemingly needs to be noted again . . . is that the average Frankite gets a little nervous if a Freshman doesn't come in and show well right out of the gate.   Now, I have no idea if Orris is even capable of playing major conference D1 ball or not. 

But the average Frankite is honed on the fact that Freshman needed to come in and show something because of the massive peaks and valleys of Frank's recruiting, the regular Franking's because Frank made poor choices in recruiting . . . and are also jaded by Bob Huggins bringing in 2 of the top Freshman in the country, that Frank coached to a 4th place finish in conference and a weekend at the NCAA tourney.

no, we're saying a freshman needs to come in and play because we should be recruiting freshman who will come in and play. especially when another freshman who we could have had, is doing so.   it has nothing to do with Frank, but again, continue the "it's Frank's fault" crusade.

[EMAWesome]

I think the problem was oscar had some dumb sense of loyalty for Orris. I hope he looks at the situation now and sees that he screwed up by not going after Gray. I mean if Orris can't crack minutes at the 2 from Spradling and Tay, that's a really bad sign.

I don't buy that.  Orris was committed to Creighton then decommitted and committed to Illinois and then decommitted.  He had other options.  Weber didn't need to do him any favors.  Weber wanted him.  Targeted him while at Illinois, lost him to Creighton and then got him back, then got fired so lost him again and then got him back again.  That's some pretty dedicated pursuit. 

Yeah, there is something about Orris that he definitely likes. I have yet to see what that is.

None of us have seen enough to Love/Hate Orris at this point IMO. I'm guessing he is a pure run the offense, play good D, non-scoring PG...he'll get Martavious minutes next year I'd figure

If this is your determination, then yeah, I think we’ve all seen enough. And in comparison to Gray, it’s an unforgiveable sin if that’s the type of player we “expect” Orris to be. JFC, you're saying he's not going to be a scorer - and I'm supposed to love that, especially in comparison to the SCORER that oscar didn't want?

The eff are you talking about? I'm not telling you to love anybody.

[catzacker]

I think the problem was oscar had some dumb sense of loyalty for Orris. I hope he looks at the situation now and sees that he screwed up by not going after Gray. I mean if Orris can't crack minutes at the 2 from Spradling and Tay, that's a really bad sign.

I don't buy that.  Orris was committed to Creighton then decommitted and committed to Illinois and then decommitted.  He had other options.  Weber didn't need to do him any favors.  Weber wanted him.  Targeted him while at Illinois, lost him to Creighton and then got him back, then got fired so lost him again and then got him back again.  That's some pretty dedicated pursuit. 

Yeah, there is something about Orris that he definitely likes. I have yet to see what that is.

None of us have seen enough to Love/Hate Orris at this point IMO. I'm guessing he is a pure run the offense, play good D, non-scoring PG...he'll get Martavious minutes next year I'd figure

If this is your determination, then yeah, I think we’ve all seen enough. And in comparison to Gray, it’s an unforgiveable sin if that’s the type of player we “expect” Orris to be. JFC, you're saying he's not going to be a scorer - and I'm supposed to love that, especially in comparison to the SCORER that oscar didn't want?

The eff are you talking about? I'm not telling you to love anybody.

[EMAWesome]

As has been noted, but seemingly needs to be noted again . . . is that the average Frankite gets a little nervous if a Freshman doesn't come in and show well right out of the gate.   Now, I have no idea if Orris is even capable of playing major conference D1 ball or not. 

But the average Frankite is honed on the fact that Freshman needed to come in and show something because of the massive peaks and valleys of Frank's recruiting, the regular Franking's because Frank made poor choices in recruiting . . . and are also jaded by Bob Huggins bringing in 2 of the top Freshman in the country, that Frank coached to a 4th place finish in conference and a weekend at the NCAA tourney.

no, we're saying a freshman needs to come in and play because we should be recruiting freshman who will come in and play. especially when another freshman who we could have had, is doing so.   it has nothing to do with Frank, but again, continue the "it's Frank's fault" crusade.

A Freshman getting minutes at Tech doesn't mean he would get minutes everywhere. Hell, they had a special needs kid playing significant minutes last year, does that mean we want him on our team?

[CNS]

Gray isn't just getting minutes at tech, he was their leading scorer last I checked.

Also, as for him not seeing time here, I am not looking for him to start, just to contribute.  The thought that he shouldn't be expected to be good enough to contribute as a frosh is crazy.

[8manpick]

None of us have seen enough to Love/Hate Orris at this point IMO.

Yeah, I get that. But him not redshirting but also not being able to come close to meaningful minutes as a frosh says a lot. Will played A LOT as a FR.

Yes, true...But Sprads got minutes over guys like Devon Patterson, Juevol Myles & a SO Irving...not exactly the same as taking minutes away from Angel & a SR Irving (just to be fair). Redshirting seems to have made the most sense

All of those guys showed far more, and got (slightly) more minutes on teams with better guards than Orris.  Orris will never be a good basketball player for us.  His highest potential is a poor man's Will Spradling.

[EMAWesome]

I think the problem was oscar had some dumb sense of loyalty for Orris. I hope he looks at the situation now and sees that he screwed up by not going after Gray. I mean if Orris can't crack minutes at the 2 from Spradling and Tay, that's a really bad sign.

I don't buy that.  Orris was committed to Creighton then decommitted and committed to Illinois and then decommitted.  He had other options.  Weber didn't need to do him any favors.  Weber wanted him.  Targeted him while at Illinois, lost him to Creighton and then got him back, then got fired so lost him again and then got him back again.  That's some pretty dedicated pursuit. 

Yeah, there is something about Orris that he definitely likes. I have yet to see what that is.

None of us have seen enough to Love/Hate Orris at this point IMO. I'm guessing he is a pure run the offense, play good D, non-scoring PG...he'll get Martavious minutes next year I'd figure

If this is your determination, then yeah, I think we’ve all seen enough. And in comparison to Gray, it’s an unforgiveable sin if that’s the type of player we “expect” Orris to be. JFC, you're saying he's not going to be a scorer - and I'm supposed to love that, especially in comparison to the SCORER that oscar didn't want?

The eff are you talking about? I'm not telling you to love anybody.

I know what I said, and it doesn't say "You should love Orris"

[MakeItRain]

As has been noted, but seemingly needs to be noted again . . . is that the average Frankite gets a little nervous if a Freshman doesn't come in and show well right out of the gate.   Now, I have no idea if Orris is even capable of playing major conference D1 ball or not. 

But the average Frankite is honed on the fact that Freshman needed to come in and show something because of the massive peaks and valleys of Frank's recruiting, the regular Franking's because Frank made poor choices in recruiting . . . and are also jaded by Bob Huggins bringing in 2 of the top Freshman in the country, that Frank coached to a 4th place finish in conference and a weekend at the NCAA tourney.

No one is talking about Frank, you old eff.

[catzacker]

we have a special needs kid getting minutes already on our team, so yeah, I'd take Gray any day of the week and twice on Sundays over Orris.