Will Spradling wasn't tough enough to play for Frank Martin

[CNS]

Relatively small pays raises for non revenue sports coaches as a reason to give Frank a raise isn't a valid talking point (excluding Deb).

None-the-less Frank got a f_cking pay raise, and one of his former assistants was one of the highest paid assistants in college basketball until he left K-State . . . and with those salaries and pay raises in hand they proceeded to not recruit for $hit and put no trophies of significance in the trophy case.

At the time, didn't we just come off an E8?

 . . . and he got a significant pay raise.

Many months after everyone else and after people were screaming for him to be paid.  These things aren't even debatable and not worth this thread being hijacked.

It's not being hijacked at all dumbass . . . you brought up paying Frank, I am discussing paying Frank.   Frank got paid, on his staff one of the highest paid assistant coaches in college basketball got a pay raise as well as I recall.   What did it move to?  I think it moved from Te450K to Tenearly500K . . . that was money well spent.   

Again, this is all in retrospect.  At that time, we landed Wally and Rod recently and we just came off an E8.

. . . and the dude got a significant pay raise, and with his annual increasing contract in hand he promptly roared off to a 5th place conference finish and Te500K recruited no one.

Not disputing that the results were not great on the recruiting trail, but what I am saying is that at the time, if you didn't think Frank needed to be paid, you hated KSU bb and wanted to lose him to the next big school looking for a coach.  He was THE story in college BB.  I am saying that it is easy to review recruiting and to try to be disappointed that things turned out the way they did, but he was fully due at the time.

[MakeItRain]

Relatively small pays raises for non revenue sports coaches as a reason to give Frank a raise isn't a valid talking point (excluding Deb).

None-the-less Frank got a f_cking pay raise, and one of his former assistants was one of the highest paid assistants in college basketball until he left K-State . . . and with those salaries and pay raises in hand they proceeded to not recruit for $hit and put no trophies of significance in the trophy case.

At the time, didn't we just come off an E8?

 . . . and he got a significant pay raise.

Many months after everyone else and after people were screaming for him to be paid.  These things aren't even debatable and not worth this thread being hijacked.

It's not being hijacked at all dumbass . . . you brought up paying Frank, I am discussing paying Frank.   Frank got paid, on his staff one of the highest paid assistant coaches in college basketball got a pay raise as well as I recall.   What did it move to?  I think it moved from Te450K to Tenearly500K . . . that was money well spent.   

I didn't bring up pay frank. These conversations work better when you're able to read and follow along, Dax. You're not listen and wait to talk guy, its obvious because you post that way.  Read and then take a 10 count before you hit send buddy.

[michigancat]

seems like Frank's shitty recruiting put together a pretty good team.

[MakeItRain]

LOL at anyone who thought the Ojeleye's were going to let another one of their kids play for Frank Martin.

Duke . . . better than K-State at hoops, better name, oh, and NO FRANK MARTIN.

Jesus this is an amazing strawman.  Its like you make up crap for attention. Of course Semi would have ended up at Duke anyway.  The point is last year Duke wasn't in on Semi yet, it was K-State and Wisconsin, Frank absolutely wanted Semi.  If he would have Franked or benched Will, his 50/50 at best shot at Semi would have been 0% at best and Frank knew it.  Again this point is fairly obvious to anyone who has any logical reasoning.

It wouldn't of mattered what he had done, the kids parents weren't going to let him go play for Frank Martin.

I'm reading this as you saying coaches should only recruit kids whos parents want them at that school.  I'm sure you don't really mean that, you're just stuck on a bad point but you just don't want to relent.

[Stupid Fitz]

Anyone think that Frank knew that if he Franked the local white kid, it would have caused a huge problem with our racist fan base and he didn't want to deal with it?  I mean, the others that were Franked, "didn't do things the right way and had tattoos and stuff"

FYWS

[steve dave]

Why didn't Frank just tell Shannon to shut up and Will to transfer? Its not like he ever had any problems Franking others.

That part has never made sense to me; he was willing to burn some east coast/DC bridges (Wally), TX bridges (Nick), FL bridges (Freddy) but wouldn't touch his KC in roads with Shannon?

I mean, we know for a fact that Frank floated the stuff to some of the media about him feeling he wasn't getting a fair shake in his contract negotiations.  I think Frank floats a lot of this stuff around. He loves playing the victim and is good at getting his point of view circulated. I think our fanbase (myself included) was too quick to buy into it. I mean, one member of the media tells us that they won't pay Frank and here comes the gullible goEMAW posse to the rescue.

Are you "message boarding," being revisionist, or just don't remember the circumstances of pay Frank?  Literally every single coach at K-State had gotten raises since Currie had been here, OBz, Brad Hill, Suzie, Deb, Rovelto, freaking everyone.  It was nearly a year after these raises were handed out and there was Frank twisting.  He was either 10th or 11th in conference salary.  Sure they could have had plans to renegotiate in the offseason, but it shouldn't have gotten to that point.

I'm stating what Frank actually did and how people reacted (and still react) to it. You can file that under whatever category you want.

OIC, you're taking the 3 people who didn't think/know that Frank was being wronged by Currie before whatever article you're talking about and applying it to everyone to prove a point.  I seem to recall plenty of conversations about why Currie hadn't paid Frank before that article (Goodman? Manbeck?) came out in February.

I'm talking about Frank telling Jeff that Currie wasn't dealing with him correctly when they started discussing his contract and Jeff telling a few of us. This was months ahead of anyone (Goodman? Manbeck? I have no idea what you are referencing here?) writing anything about it. I mean, where in the eff are you getting dates from what I posted? And that's completely beside the point. The point I'm making is that Frank loves playing the victim and uses the media and fans to do so.

[CNS]

Anyone think that Frank knew that if he Franked the local white kid, it would have caused a huge problem with our racist fan base and he didn't want to deal with it?  I mean, the others that were Franked, "didn't do things the right way and had tattoos and stuff"

FYWS

I don't think that Will would have ever been Franked, just demoted.

[sonofdaxjones]

Relatively small pays raises for non revenue sports coaches as a reason to give Frank a raise isn't a valid talking point (excluding Deb).

None-the-less Frank got a f_cking pay raise, and one of his former assistants was one of the highest paid assistants in college basketball until he left K-State . . . and with those salaries and pay raises in hand they proceeded to not recruit for $hit and put no trophies of significance in the trophy case.

At the time, didn't we just come off an E8?

 . . . and he got a significant pay raise.

Many months after everyone else and after people were screaming for him to be paid.  These things aren't even debatable and not worth this thread being hijacked.

It's not being hijacked at all dumbass . . . you brought up paying Frank, I am discussing paying Frank.   Frank got paid, on his staff one of the highest paid assistant coaches in college basketball got a pay raise as well as I recall.   What did it move to?  I think it moved from Te450K to Tenearly500K . . . that was money well spent.   

I didn't bring up pay frank. These conversations work better when you're able to read and follow along, Dax. You're not listen and wait to talk guy, its obvious because you post that way.  Read and then take a 10 count before you hit send buddy.

Regardless, you took up on the pay Frank cause in this thread and even used an actual real life strawman to justify paying Frank . . . based on the fact (excluding Deb) some woefully underpaid Olympic sport coaches got some tiny little pay raises.   I don't think I am going to far out on a limb by saying the contract negotiations with notorious hot head ultra paranoid Frank "I'm just happy to be here" Martin with one of the highest paid assistant coaches in college basketball on his staff.   Were a little more involved than the contract negotiations with Cliff Revolto.   

 

[sonofdaxjones]

LOL at anyone who thought the Ojeleye's were going to let another one of their kids play for Frank Martin.

Duke . . . better than K-State at hoops, better name, oh, and NO FRANK MARTIN.

Jesus this is an amazing strawman.  Its like you make up crap for attention. Of course Semi would have ended up at Duke anyway.  The point is last year Duke wasn't in on Semi yet, it was K-State and Wisconsin, Frank absolutely wanted Semi.  If he would have Franked or benched Will, his 50/50 at best shot at Semi would have been 0% at best and Frank knew it.  Again this point is fairly obvious to anyone who has any logical reasoning.

It wouldn't of mattered what he had done, the kids parents weren't going to let him go play for Frank Martin.

I'm reading this as you saying coaches should only recruit kids whos parents want them at that school.  I'm sure you don't really mean that, you're just stuck on a bad point but you just don't want to relent.

That's not what I'm saying at all . . . bringing up the whole Semi, benching/playing Will talking point is stupid, because Frank Martin being Frank Martin put a torpedo in the Semi to K-State boat all by itself.

[MakeItRain]

Anyone think that Frank knew that if he Franked the local white kid, it would have caused a huge problem with our racist fan base and he didn't want to deal with it?  I mean, the others that were Franked, "didn't do things the right way and had tattoos and stuff"

FYWS

This was a factor, but I think fan base really means all people with their tentacles in the program including most of the greater KC area basketball community.  I don't think (I hope) he gave a damn about local yokels on GPC or callers to 810 and 1350.

[kso_FAN]

I'm talking about Frank telling Jeff that Currie wasn't dealing with him correctly when they started discussing his contract and Jeff telling a few of us. This was months ahead of anyone (Goodman? Manbeck? I have no idea what you are referencing here?) writing anything about it. I mean, where in the eff are you getting dates from what I posted? And that's completely beside the point. The point I'm making is that Frank loves playing the victim and uses the media and fans to do so.

Yeah, Frank was a master with the media. There is a reason most in the media and most of us as fans loved him and that he became the face of the program. I mean, he had to win games, but he played the media game really well too.

[kougar24]

My favorite tp on this topic--including from the woman who called into BITB--is "Yeah, but Frank never treated other players like he treated poor Will!!!"

Have these people ever heard of Jacob Pullen? Did they watch the 2008-09 season? Did they see the game at Oregon? I mean, I don't even...

Only our most moronic fans say make that a tp.

You are calling about 70% of our fans the "most moronic" then, because it was brought up all the freaking time a year ago.

[kso_FAN]

My favorite tp on this topic--including from the woman who called into BITB--is "Yeah, but Frank never treated other players like he treated poor Will!!!"

Have these people ever heard of Jacob Pullen? Did they watch the 2008-09 season? Did they see the game at Oregon? I mean, I don't even...

Only our most moronic fans say make that a tp.

You are calling about 70% of our fans the "most moronic" then, because it was brought up all the freaking time a year ago.

link(s)?

[kougar24]

My favorite tp on this topic--including from the woman who called into BITB--is "Yeah, but Frank never treated other players like he treated poor Will!!!"

Have these people ever heard of Jacob Pullen? Did they watch the 2008-09 season? Did they see the game at Oregon? I mean, I don't even...

Only our most moronic fans say make that a tp.

You are calling about 70% of our fans the "most moronic" then, because it was brought up all the freaking time a year ago.

link(s)?

I don't care enough for that, but if you think this caller into BITB represented a minority of our fanbase, I can't agree with you.

[kso_FAN]

My favorite tp on this topic--including from the woman who called into BITB--is "Yeah, but Frank never treated other players like he treated poor Will!!!"

Have these people ever heard of Jacob Pullen? Did they watch the 2008-09 season? Did they see the game at Oregon? I mean, I don't even...

Only our most moronic fans say make that a tp.

You are calling about 70% of our fans the "most moronic" then, because it was brought up all the freaking time a year ago.

link(s)?

I don't care enough for that, but if you think this caller into BITB represented a minority of our fanbase, I can't agree with you.

There are probably quite a few, but I don't think its a majority.

[MakeItRain]

Relatively small pays raises for non revenue sports coaches as a reason to give Frank a raise isn't a valid talking point (excluding Deb).

None-the-less Frank got a f_cking pay raise, and one of his former assistants was one of the highest paid assistants in college basketball until he left K-State . . . and with those salaries and pay raises in hand they proceeded to not recruit for $hit and put no trophies of significance in the trophy case.

At the time, didn't we just come off an E8?

 . . . and he got a significant pay raise.

Many months after everyone else and after people were screaming for him to be paid.  These things aren't even debatable and not worth this thread being hijacked.

It's not being hijacked at all dumbass . . . you brought up paying Frank, I am discussing paying Frank.   Frank got paid, on his staff one of the highest paid assistant coaches in college basketball got a pay raise as well as I recall.   What did it move to?  I think it moved from Te450K to Tenearly500K . . . that was money well spent.   

I didn't bring up pay frank. These conversations work better when you're able to read and follow along, Dax. You're not listen and wait to talk guy, its obvious because you post that way.  Read and then take a 10 count before you hit send buddy.

Regardless, you took up on the pay Frank cause in this thread and even used an actual real life strawman to justify paying Frank . . . based on the fact (excluding Deb) some woefully underpaid Olympic sport coaches got some tiny little pay raises.   I don't think I am going to far out on a limb by saying the contract negotiations with notorious hot head ultra paranoid Frank "I'm just happy to be here" Martin with one of the highest paid assistant coaches in college basketball on his staff.   Were a little more involved than the contract negotiations with Cliff Revolto.   

I didn't take up any pay frank cause, all I did was mention that his raise came much later than everyone else and it was very close to coaching free agent season where we would have had an issue.  I agree with your point about how complicated his negotiations likely were, I never said or suggested otherwise.  I do think its foolish if you, Currie, or anyone else thinks they can handle a high profile coach in a revenue sport the same way you handle the track coach.  He seemed to realize this by not underpaying Snyder and giving him a lifetime contract.

Even in retrospect it seems fairly obvious that Currie made some mistakes on how he handled Frank's extension.  My point to you and SD is this may not be the best example of Frank ego out of control because its fair to assume that a lot of ego driven basketball coaches would have had a problem with how that went down.

[MakeItRain]

LOL at anyone who thought the Ojeleye's were going to let another one of their kids play for Frank Martin.

Duke . . . better than K-State at hoops, better name, oh, and NO FRANK MARTIN.

Jesus this is an amazing strawman.  Its like you make up crap for attention. Of course Semi would have ended up at Duke anyway.  The point is last year Duke wasn't in on Semi yet, it was K-State and Wisconsin, Frank absolutely wanted Semi.  If he would have Franked or benched Will, his 50/50 at best shot at Semi would have been 0% at best and Frank knew it.  Again this point is fairly obvious to anyone who has any logical reasoning.

It wouldn't of mattered what he had done, the kids parents weren't going to let him go play for Frank Martin.

I'm reading this as you saying coaches should only recruit kids whos parents want them at that school.  I'm sure you don't really mean that, you're just stuck on a bad point but you just don't want to relent.

That's not what I'm saying at all . . . bringing up the whole Semi, benching/playing Will talking point is stupid, because Frank Martin being Frank Martin put a torpedo in the Semi to K-State boat all by itself.

Yes we know that Dax, and most agree. The point is that he was still recruiting Semi despite what appeared to be a uphill battle. If he Franked Will he would have effectively ended any shot at Semi no matter how small it was. This isn't at all a controversial stance.

[kougar24]

My favorite tp on this topic--including from the woman who called into BITB--is "Yeah, but Frank never treated other players like he treated poor Will!!!"

Have these people ever heard of Jacob Pullen? Did they watch the 2008-09 season? Did they see the game at Oregon? I mean, I don't even...

Only our most moronic fans say make that a tp.

You are calling about 70% of our fans the "most moronic" then, because it was brought up all the freaking time a year ago.

link(s)?

I don't care enough for that, but if you think this caller into BITB represented a minority of our fanbase, I can't agree with you.

There are probably quite a few, but I don't think its a majority.

I know people who weren't quite Frankites but liked him plenty, who wanted him fired for nothing other than yelling at Will for the infamous missed FT in Columbia last year.

Will the White Kansan is an untouchable golden boy for 97% of our fanbase.

[kso_FAN]

I know people who weren't quite Frankites but liked him plenty, who wanted him fired for nothing other than yelling at Will for the infamous missed FT in Columbia last year.

Will the White Kansan is an untouchable golden boy for 97% of our fanbase.

The majority of those people also didn't like him yelling at Pullen either. Or "hitting" Chris. I don't think this TP was just about Will.

[nicname]

A lot of people blowing this "saga" out of proportion.   Like a soap-opera in here.   

Frank recruited Spradling.  Played him young.  Never recruited anyone better. Played Spradling lots of minutes.  Spradling underperforms.  Frank is mean to Spradling.  Spradlings dad has a problem with it? <--- I have no clue about this.  Frank leaves. Spradling pops off about mean Frank.  oscar plays Spradling a ton of minutes....

[kougar24]

I know people who weren't quite Frankites but liked him plenty, who wanted him fired for nothing other than yelling at Will for the infamous missed FT in Columbia last year.

Will the White Kansan is an untouchable golden boy for 97% of our fanbase.

The majority of those people also didn't like him yelling at Pullen either. Or "hitting" Chris. I don't think this TP was just about Will.

See, I disagree entirely with this. I'll caveat it with "at least in my experience," but these same people brushed off the "controversy" about Merriwether and thought Jacob was being selfish and deserved his verbal abuse.

[MakeItRain]

I'm talking about Frank telling Jeff that Currie wasn't dealing with him correctly when they started discussing his contract and Jeff telling a few of us. This was months ahead of anyone (Goodman? Manbeck? I have no idea what you are referencing here?) writing anything about it. I mean, where in the eff are you getting dates from what I posted? And that's completely beside the point. The point I'm making is that Frank loves playing the victim and uses the media and fans to do so.

You're 100% correct about Frank most powerful coaches using the media to fight their battles, no argument from me.  Did I miss Frank mentioning or hinting anything about Will, Shannon, or Suther doing him wrong to anyone?  Sincere question.  Seems to me all the arrows are being slung in one direction only.

[MakeItRain]

A lot of people blowing this "saga" out of proportion.   Like a soap-opera in here.   

Frank recruited Spradling.  Played him young.  Never recruited anyone better. Played Spradling lots of minutes.  Spradling underperforms.  Frank is mean to Spradling.  Spradlings dad has a problem with it? <--- I have no clue about this.  Frank leaves. Spradling pops off about mean Frank.  oscar plays Spradling a ton of minutes....

Pretty much correct.
-Frank was as mean to Will as he was to any other Frank player minus Mike & Bill who played a lot.  Will said he could handle it because his dad was meaner, he lied.
-Shannon and Matt Suther undoubtedly had issues with how Will was handled.
-Will's minutes are slightly down this season.

[kso_FAN]

See, I disagree entirely with this. I'll caveat it with "at least in my experience," but these same people brushed off the "controversy" about Merriwether and thought Jacob was being selfish and deserved his verbal abuse.

That may be true, but I think most people (myself included) have a presumption of what happened and filter/interpret information based on those presumptions. I think this situation and the variety of opinions is a pretty good example of that. Especially in the world of BBSing, its easy to make information "fit" where and what you want it to "fit".

[kougar24]

See, I disagree entirely with this. I'll caveat it with "at least in my experience," but these same people brushed off the "controversy" about Merriwether and thought Jacob was being selfish and deserved his verbal abuse.

That may be true, but I think most people (myself included) have a presumption of what happened and filter/interpret information based on those presumptions. I think this situation and the variety of opinions is a pretty good example of that. Especially in the world of BBSing, its easy to make information "fit" where and what you want it to "fit".

I was referring to my experience with fans I actually know...not BBSers.