Will Spradling wasn't tough enough to play for Frank Martin

[MakeItRain]

Yeah, it's obvs why sprads did the cowardly crap person things he did. 

what were those things cns casey?

Yeah, I don't believe much of the Sprad's conspiracy theories. I don't doubt that his dad was a prick, but that's about it. Frank could've just told him to back off like he's probably told countless other dads/handlers. I think Frank played him because he trusted him to do a lot of things right on the court and expected him to improve on his shooting, even though he's unspectacular at most things.

I think you're underselling the recruitment of Semi as it pertains to the handling of Will and Shannon. I don't think Frank had any intention of Franking Will.

[Belvis Noland]

Are you "message boarding," being revisionist, or just don't remember the circumstances of pay Frank?  Literally every single coach at K-State had gotten raises since Currie had been here, OBz, Brad Hill, Suzie, Deb, Rovelto, freaking everyone.  It was nearly a year after these raises were handed out and there was Frank twisting.  He was either 10th or 11th in conference salary.  Sure they could have had plans to renegotiate in the offseason, but it shouldn't have gotten to that point.

Pay Frank isn't the issue in this thread.  Were talking about the purported power struggle between Frank and his player, not between Frank and John. 

If this drama with Frank and Will is likened to the Game of Thrones, Frank is Lord Tywin Lannister and Will is a chamber maid.  Coaches are supremely powerful and it's utterly ludicrous to suggest that an underrecruited, underperforming sophomore is dictating his coach's movements.  If Frank wanted to crush Will, frank him into oblivion, he could have done it.  He wasn't forced to play him by pressure of some elaborate plot hatched by will and his dad.  Frank wanted and desperately needed Will to be better.  And it was a lot easier to blame Will for sucking than it was to blame himself for recruiting a player that sucked. 

[steve dave]

Pay Frank isn't the issue in this thread. 

it was valid to discuss it because I used it in my example

[MakeItRain]

Why didn't Frank just tell Shannon to shut up and Will to transfer? Its not like he ever had any problems Franking others.

That part has never made sense to me; he was willing to burn some east coast/DC bridges (Wally), TX bridges (Nick), FL bridges (Freddy) but wouldn't touch his KC in roads with Shannon?

I mean, we know for a fact that Frank floated the stuff to some of the media about him feeling he wasn't getting a fair shake in his contract negotiations.  I think Frank floats a lot of this stuff around. He loves playing the victim and is good at getting his point of view circulated. I think our fanbase (myself included) was too quick to buy into it. I mean, one member of the media tells us that they won't pay Frank and here comes the gullible goEMAW posse to the rescue.

Are you "message boarding," being revisionist, or just don't remember the circumstances of pay Frank?  Literally every single coach at K-State had gotten raises since Currie had been here, OBz, Brad Hill, Suzie, Deb, Rovelto, freaking everyone.  It was nearly a year after these raises were handed out and there was Frank twisting.  He was either 10th or 11th in conference salary.  Sure they could have had plans to renegotiate in the offseason, but it shouldn't have gotten to that point.

I'm stating what Frank actually did and how people reacted (and still react) to it. You can file that under whatever category you want.

OIC, you're taking the 3 people who didn't think/know that Frank was being wronged by Currie before whatever article you're talking about and applying it to everyone to prove a point.  I seem to recall plenty of conversations about why Currie hadn't paid Frank before that article (Goodman? Manbeck?) came out in February.

[kso_FAN]

Yeah, it's obvs why sprads did the cowardly crap person things he did. 

what were those things cns casey?

Yeah, I don't believe much of the Sprad's conspiracy theories. I don't doubt that his dad was a prick, but that's about it. Frank could've just told him to back off like he's probably told countless other dads/handlers. I think Frank played him because he trusted him to do a lot of things right on the court and expected him to improve on his shooting, even though he's unspectacular at most things.

I think you're underselling the recruitment of Semi as it pertains to the handling of Will and Shannon. I don't think Frank had any intention of Franking Will.

Yeah, I get that. But he also had Semi's BROTHER on his own team. And yet Wisconsin and Bo Ryan went after him harder and offered him first. I get the Shannon Spradling connection, but to me it was worse to miss when you already had his brother on campus and weren't the first BCS school to offer him.

[sonofdaxjones]

Relatively small pays raises for non revenue sports coaches as a reason to give Frank a raise isn't a valid talking point (excluding Deb).

None-the-less Frank got a f_cking pay raise, and one of his former assistants was one of the highest paid assistants in college basketball until he left K-State . . . and with those salaries and pay raises in hand they proceeded to not recruit for $hit and put no trophies of significance in the trophy case.

[CNS]

Relatively small pays raises for non revenue sports coaches as a reason to give Frank a raise isn't a valid talking point (excluding Deb).

None-the-less Frank got a f_cking pay raise, and one of his former assistants was one of the highest paid assistants in college basketball until he left K-State . . . and with those salaries and pay raises in hand they proceeded to not recruit for $hit and put no trophies of significance in the trophy case.

At the time, didn't we just come off an E8? 

[sonofdaxjones]

Relatively small pays raises for non revenue sports coaches as a reason to give Frank a raise isn't a valid talking point (excluding Deb).

None-the-less Frank got a f_cking pay raise, and one of his former assistants was one of the highest paid assistants in college basketball until he left K-State . . . and with those salaries and pay raises in hand they proceeded to not recruit for $hit and put no trophies of significance in the trophy case.

At the time, didn't we just come off an E8?

 . . . and he got a significant pay raise. 

[MakeItRain]

Are you "message boarding," being revisionist, or just don't remember the circumstances of pay Frank?  Literally every single coach at K-State had gotten raises since Currie had been here, OBz, Brad Hill, Suzie, Deb, Rovelto, freaking everyone.  It was nearly a year after these raises were handed out and there was Frank twisting.  He was either 10th or 11th in conference salary.  Sure they could have had plans to renegotiate in the offseason, but it shouldn't have gotten to that point.

Pay Frank isn't the issue in this thread.  Were talking about the purported power struggle between Frank and his player, not between Frank and John. 

If this drama with Frank and Will is likened to the Game of Thrones, Frank is Lord Tywin Lannister and Will is a chamber maid.  Coaches are supremely powerful and it's utterly ludicrous to suggest that an underrecruited, underperforming sophomore is dictating his coach's movements.  If Frank wanted to crush Will, frank him into oblivion, he could have done it.  He wasn't forced to play him by pressure of some elaborate plot hatched by will and his dad.  Frank wanted and desperately needed Will to be better.  And it was a lot easier to blame Will for sucking than it was to blame himself for recruiting a player that sucked.

Does anybody think Frank buckled under some pressure from Will and Shannon?  I think Shannon's role in Frank being gone to USC is because Frank became toxic to Suther because of the Spradlings and Currie gave the Spradlings an audience which pissed Frank off that helicopter parents had a line to his boss.  Again we all know that Frank needed Will to succeed because he couldn't recruit over him, but you have to acknowledge that even if Frank could recruit over Will there would have been repercussions.

[8manpick]

Yeah, it's obvs why sprads did the cowardly crap person things he did. 

what were those things cns casey?

Yeah, I don't believe much of the Sprad's conspiracy theories. I don't doubt that his dad was a prick, but that's about it. Frank could've just told him to back off like he's probably told countless other dads/handlers. I think Frank played him because he trusted him to do a lot of things right on the court and expected him to improve on his shooting, even though he's unspectacular at most things.

I think you're underselling the recruitment of Semi as it pertains to the handling of Will and Shannon. I don't think Frank had any intention of Franking Will.

Yeah, I get that. But he also had Semi's BROTHER on his own team. And yet Wisconsin and Bo Ryan went after him harder and offered him first. I get the Shannon Spradling connection, but to me it was worse to miss when you already had his brother on campus and weren't the first BCS school to offer him.

No one actually thinks we would have gotten Semi once Duke offered do they?  I get being upset that we weren't first to offer and Wisconsin, but Vic wasn't going to be on campus by the time Semi was. If he is the same kind of dedicated student smart guy that his brother is, I can't see him choosing us over Duke in any situation, given that Duke has the advantages of being far better at both basketball and academics.

[sonofdaxjones]

LOL at anyone who thought the Ojeleye's were going to let another one of their kids play for Frank Martin.

Duke . . . better than K-State at hoops, better name, oh, and NO FRANK MARTIN.

[MakeItRain]

Relatively small pays raises for non revenue sports coaches as a reason to give Frank a raise isn't a valid talking point (excluding Deb).

None-the-less Frank got a f_cking pay raise, and one of his former assistants was one of the highest paid assistants in college basketball until he left K-State . . . and with those salaries and pay raises in hand they proceeded to not recruit for $hit and put no trophies of significance in the trophy case.

At the time, didn't we just come off an E8?

 . . . and he got a significant pay raise.

Many months after everyone else and after people were screaming for him to be paid.  These things aren't even debatable and not worth this thread being hijacked.

[kso_FAN]

No one actually thinks we would have gotten Semi once Duke offered do they?  I get being upset that we weren't first to offer and Wisconsin, but Vic wasn't going to be on campus by the time Semi was. If he is the same kind of dedicated student smart guy that his brother is, I can't see him choosing us over Duke in any situation, given that Duke has the advantages of being far better at both basketball and academics.

I doubt we had gotten him over Duke, but us not offering him first never made sense to me.

[michigancat]

I don't believe Frank really played Will to teach him a lesson. I believe Frank thought Will was the best option, and probably said some not nice things to Will in the process of playing him lots of minutes.

[8manpick]

No one actually thinks we would have gotten Semi once Duke offered do they?  I get being upset that we weren't first to offer and Wisconsin, but Vic wasn't going to be on campus by the time Semi was. If he is the same kind of dedicated student smart guy that his brother is, I can't see him choosing us over Duke in any situation, given that Duke has the advantages of being far better at both basketball and academics.

I doubt we had gotten him over Duke, but us not offering him first never made sense to me.

Agreed

[michigancat]

I don't believe Frank really played Will to teach him a lesson. I believe Frank thought Will was the best option, and probably said some not nice things to Will in the process of playing him lots of minutes.

I also don't believe Frank really wanted Will's house to burn down with Will inside of it.

[sonofdaxjones]

Relatively small pays raises for non revenue sports coaches as a reason to give Frank a raise isn't a valid talking point (excluding Deb).

None-the-less Frank got a f_cking pay raise, and one of his former assistants was one of the highest paid assistants in college basketball until he left K-State . . . and with those salaries and pay raises in hand they proceeded to not recruit for $hit and put no trophies of significance in the trophy case.

At the time, didn't we just come off an E8?

 . . . and he got a significant pay raise.

Many months after everyone else and after people were screaming for him to be paid.  These things aren't even debatable and not worth this thread being hijacked.

It's not being hijacked at all dumbass . . . you brought up paying Frank, I am discussing paying Frank.   Frank got paid, on his staff one of the highest paid assistant coaches in college basketball got a pay raise as well as I recall.   What did it move to?  I think it moved from Te450K to Tenearly500K . . . that was money well spent.   

[kougar24]

My favorite tp on this topic--including from the woman who called into BITB--is "Yeah, but Frank never treated other players like he treated poor Will!!!"

Have these people ever heard of Jacob Pullen? Did they watch the 2008-09 season? Did they see the game at Oregon? I mean, I don't even...

[CNS]

Relatively small pays raises for non revenue sports coaches as a reason to give Frank a raise isn't a valid talking point (excluding Deb).

None-the-less Frank got a f_cking pay raise, and one of his former assistants was one of the highest paid assistants in college basketball until he left K-State . . . and with those salaries and pay raises in hand they proceeded to not recruit for $hit and put no trophies of significance in the trophy case.

At the time, didn't we just come off an E8?

 . . . and he got a significant pay raise.

Many months after everyone else and after people were screaming for him to be paid.  These things aren't even debatable and not worth this thread being hijacked.

It's not being hijacked at all dumbass . . . you brought up paying Frank, I am discussing paying Frank.   Frank got paid, on his staff one of the highest paid assistant coaches in college basketball got a pay raise as well as I recall.   What did it move to?  I think it moved from Te450K to Tenearly500K . . . that was money well spent.   

Again, this is all in retrospect.  At that time, we landed Wally and Rod recently and we just came off an E8.

[kso_FAN]

I don't believe Frank really played Will to teach him a lesson. I believe Frank thought Will was the best option, and probably said some not nice things to Will in the process of playing him lots of minutes.

I also don't believe Frank really wanted Will's house to burn down with Will inside of it.

I agree with both statements.

[sonofdaxjones]

Relatively small pays raises for non revenue sports coaches as a reason to give Frank a raise isn't a valid talking point (excluding Deb).

None-the-less Frank got a f_cking pay raise, and one of his former assistants was one of the highest paid assistants in college basketball until he left K-State . . . and with those salaries and pay raises in hand they proceeded to not recruit for $hit and put no trophies of significance in the trophy case.

At the time, didn't we just come off an E8?

 . . . and he got a significant pay raise.

Many months after everyone else and after people were screaming for him to be paid.  These things aren't even debatable and not worth this thread being hijacked.

It's not being hijacked at all dumbass . . . you brought up paying Frank, I am discussing paying Frank.   Frank got paid, on his staff one of the highest paid assistant coaches in college basketball got a pay raise as well as I recall.   What did it move to?  I think it moved from Te450K to Tenearly500K . . . that was money well spent.   

Again, this is all in retrospect.  At that time, we landed Wally and Rod recently and we just came off an E8.

. . . and the dude got a significant pay raise, and with his annual increasing contract in hand he promptly roared off to an eventual exiting 5th place conference finish and Te500K recruited no one, only to slink off to Maryland and reduction in pay.

[MakeItRain]

LOL at anyone who thought the Ojeleye's were going to let another one of their kids play for Frank Martin.

Duke . . . better than K-State at hoops, better name, oh, and NO FRANK MARTIN.

Jesus this is an amazing strawman.  Its like you make up crap for attention. Of course Semi would have ended up at Duke anyway.  The point is last year Duke wasn't in on Semi yet, it was K-State and Wisconsin, Frank absolutely wanted Semi.  If he would have Franked or benched Will, his 50/50 at best shot at Semi would have been 0% at best and Frank knew it.  Again this point is fairly obvious to anyone who has any logical reasoning.

[CNS]

My favorite tp on this topic--including from the woman who called into BITB--is "Yeah, but Frank never treated other players like he treated poor Will!!!"

Have these people ever heard of Jacob Pullen? Did they watch the 2008-09 season? Did they see the game at Oregon? I mean, I don't even...

Yeah, if the sprads were surprised at all, it is their own damn fault. 

It's like Shannon and Will never actually watched a game before signing. 

[kso_FAN]

My favorite tp on this topic--including from the woman who called into BITB--is "Yeah, but Frank never treated other players like he treated poor Will!!!"

Have these people ever heard of Jacob Pullen? Did they watch the 2008-09 season? Did they see the game at Oregon? I mean, I don't even...

Only our most moronic fans say make that a tp.

[sonofdaxjones]

LOL at anyone who thought the Ojeleye's were going to let another one of their kids play for Frank Martin.

Duke . . . better than K-State at hoops, better name, oh, and NO FRANK MARTIN.

Jesus this is an amazing strawman.  Its like you make up crap for attention. Of course Semi would have ended up at Duke anyway.  The point is last year Duke wasn't in on Semi yet, it was K-State and Wisconsin, Frank absolutely wanted Semi.  If he would have Franked or benched Will, his 50/50 at best shot at Semi would have been 0% at best and Frank knew it.  Again this point is fairly obvious to anyone who has any logical reasoning.

It wouldn't of mattered what he had done, the kids parents weren't going to let him go play for Frank Martin.