2013 QB Competition: Sams vs. Waters

[GoodForAnother]

I just don't see this team reaching it's full potential without a dominant running threat at QB.  When Klein stopped running without regard to his physical well being after OSU the whole offense was less effective.  Waters has to be more explosive than CCQ but I am still afraid of 2.5 yard runs on 3rd and 3 QB option keepers.

Del was not around when Bishop, Beasley and Ell took the program to new heights but I have hopes he has learned to appreciate what how great a dynamic dual threat QB can be.  Hopefully, this is more about Sams getting dinged than anything else.

Del was the OC when Ell was practically unstoppable his senior year.  Ron Hudson held him back by being worthless.

Regardless, the actual offense we used when Coffman was here wasn't bad.  He just didn't have the arm or legs to run it effectively.  Waters does.

We have a very, very strong WR corps.  Waters is a solid pick here.  Also, Sams gives you a real curveball look to give a defense a few times a game, so we can keep them off balance.

This offense is going to be fun.

all of this.  it's going to be great, guys.

[michigancat]

I think 2 qb's can be fine. Why wouldn't it be fine? Just seems like old outdated thinking not based on any facts to assume it wouldn't work.

I'm not saying it's clearly the best for us, but it might be.

[Stevesie60]

I love the idea of a 2 QB system, especially with our 2. Defensive coordinators basically have to plan for two offenses. I think a good coach can make it work, hence Urban Meyer's success.

[CNS]

I would love to see something where they are both on the field like 90%+ of the time we are on O.  Both can run.  Both can throw.  Add a component to the play call that indicates who lines up under center, etc.

Would be fantastically entertaining.


Don't really have much interest in subbing them in for each other a bunch unless it is because we are going to set records for the most snaps per game ever and one QB simply can't do it all.

[Rage Against the McKee]

I think 2 qb's can be fine. Why wouldn't it be fine? Just seems like old outdated thinking not based on any facts to assume it wouldn't work.

I'm not saying it's clearly the best for us, but it might be.

Yeah. I mean why not put them both in the game? Put one at QB, the other at slot. If the defense has 3 or more LBs on the field, run the offense with Waters and LOL at the linebacker trying to cover Sams. If they go to a nickle package, shift Sams to QB and Waters to slot and just tear them up with the zone read.

[_33]

If Sams becomes the starter then I don't believe in 2 QB systems.  But if Waters is starting then I think it would be a good idea to try it.

[PIPE]

2 QB systems suck, IMO.......

Anyways, for some odd reason I feel really nervous about this situation. Maybe, just maybe, there are too many similarities between this and the Dunn/Roberson deal..........

I am no way  in the last comment by the way, just other stuff.

[kso_FAN]

I think Sams will see the field for plenty of snaps, even if Waters remains the starter. Makes sense to do Wildcat stuff with Sams as the guy for 5-8 snaps (at least) per game, plus some packages with Sams and Waters on the field at the same time.

And I don't have a Dunn/Ell feel about this situation because its entirely different. Dunn was never part of any QB run game/read option system at his JUCO and was just a passer. He didn't do it a bunch, but Waters ran read option stuff plenty in JUCO.

[WildcatNkilt]

A 2 QB situation makes me nervous.  No matter how good a QB can be, confidence is obtained from repetitions and rhythm.  If we continue to swap Sams and Waters out under center I think it will eventually create a lower ceiling for the team. 

However, if Sams is on the field at the same time as Waters as a threat to pass and run under the Wildcat formation, then 2 QB's will not scare me as much.  I don't want to see a different QB every other drive under center.

[Dub]

A 2 QB situation makes me nervous.  No matter how good a QB can be, confidence is obtained from repetitions and rhythm.  If we continue to swap Sams and Waters out under center I think it will eventually create a lower ceiling for the team. 

However, if Sams is on the field at the same time as Waters as a threat to pass and run under the Wildcat formation, then 2 QB's will not scare me as much.  I don't want to see a different QB every other drive under center.

It's the equivalent to Frank subbing the starting 5 in and out.  No one can get in a flow or get comfortable with how the defense is moving/reacting.

[mocat]

A 2 QB situation makes me nervous.  No matter how good a QB can be, confidence is obtained from repetitions and rhythm.  If we continue to swap Sams and Waters out under center I think it will eventually create a lower ceiling for the team. 

However, if Sams is on the field at the same time as Waters as a threat to pass and run under the Wildcat formation, then 2 QB's will not scare me as much.  I don't want to see a different QB every other drive under center.

It's the equivalent to Frank subbing the starting 5 in and out.  No one can get in a flow or get comfortable with how the defense is moving/reacting.

elite 8 tho

[ChiComCat]

I can't recall a team regularly playing 2 different QBs and having a lot of success.  Maybe it's happened, I just don't recall it. 

Anybody have any examples? 

ND last year, Florida the first year Urban Meyer won it all, to a lesser extent OU the past two seasons, Oregon State last year was solid, LSU the year they won it all did it some.

Yeah, but I mean "regularly" playing both QBs.  Like, splitting series more or less.  Rees played for ND, but Golson had the overwhelming majority of snaps.  Blake Bell only played on the goal line. 

I just want to know if I can anticipate an offense that features Sams regularly taking snaps at QB in non-situational settings.     

So you're looking for a team that just randomly shuffled in different QBs regardless of the situation and was successful?  No, that has not happened.

[kso_FAN]

So you're looking for a team that just randomly shuffled in different QBs regardless of the situation and was successful?  No, that has not happened.

Yeah, perhaps the worst example of this was Snyder's use of Dunn/Ell in the Insight.com Bowl. Man.

Hopefully he learned from that.

[Mixed-Nutz]

I could see Sams being a red zone / goal line qb.

[Rage Against the McKee]

I could see Sams being a red zone / goal line qb.

He can't get 50 yard touchdown runs in the redzone, though.

[michigancat]

A 2 QB situation makes me nervous.  No matter how good a QB can be, confidence is obtained from repetitions and rhythm.  If we continue to swap Sams and Waters out under center I think it will eventually create a lower ceiling for the team. 

How many reps do you think they both get in practice? (a hell of a lot more than a starter would get in a game w/ every snap).

[WildcatNkilt]

I could see Sams being a red zone / goal line qb.

So our own Belldozer.   

If Waters is a badass and stuff, I would like to see Sams as a WR.  He needs to be on the field as much as possible.  Make him into a Tavon Austin or something.

[ksupamplemousse]

If we have two good QBs, then running a two QB system will be fine. The problem we have had with running two QB systems in the past is that both QBs have had mediocre play, so we kept switching back and forth trying to see if the lightbulb would eventually come on for on our QBs. This is a pretty simple question/answer and people are analyzing it way too much.

[Bqqkie Pimp]

I would love to see something where they are both on the field like 90%+ of the time we are on O.  Both can run.  Both can throw.  Add a component to the play call that indicates who lines up under center, etc.

Would be fantastically entertaining.


Don't really have much interest in subbing them in for each other a bunch unless it is because we are going to set records for the most snaps per game ever and one QB simply can't do it all.

Remind me...  Were you a woodwind or horn in the POWL?

[MadCat]

I could see Sams being a red zone / goal line qb.

He can't get 50 yard touchdown runs in the redzone, though.

Well, not from the opponent's redzone...

[Dub]

A 2 QB situation makes me nervous.  No matter how good a QB can be, confidence is obtained from repetitions and rhythm.  If we continue to swap Sams and Waters out under center I think it will eventually create a lower ceiling for the team. 

How many reps do you think they both get in practice? (a hell of a lot more than a starter would get in a game w/ every snap).

Practice reps and game reps are different      s

[Dugout DickStone]

The only problem is with Snyder's "2 QB rotation" is when Sams is in, it's a QB draw every time like when Pease was in/every time CK audibled.

[steve dave]

I could see Sams being a red zone / goal line qb.

So our own Belldozer.   

If Waters is a badass and stuff, I would like to see Sams as a WR.  He needs to be on the field as much as possible.  Make him into a Tavon Austin or something.

the way we play our QBs get hurt all the time. I'm guessing one of these guys gets grant gregory'd this season no matter what and I'm happy we have a good backup (hopefully good anyway)

[CNS]

I would love to see something where they are both on the field like 90%+ of the time we are on O.  Both can run.  Both can throw.  Add a component to the play call that indicates who lines up under center, etc.

Would be fantastically entertaining.


Don't really have much interest in subbing them in for each other a bunch unless it is because we are going to set records for the most snaps per game ever and one QB simply can't do it all.

Remind me...  Were you a woodwind or horn in the POWL?

Neither.

When Bill came back, he was on the radio in KC and said that he would love to find a way to do what I described.  Was hoping that this was the year.

[WildcatNkilt]

I could see Sams being a red zone / goal line qb.

So our own Belldozer.   

If Waters is a badass and stuff, I would like to see Sams as a WR.  He needs to be on the field as much as possible.  Make him into a Tavon Austin or something.

the way we play our QBs get hurt all the time. I'm guessing one of these guys gets grant gregory'd this season no matter what and I'm happy we have a good backup (hopefully good anyway)

I agree.  I think Sams will be the one to hurt himself.  He came across as very fragile in the games he played in last year. 

It is frustrating thinking that one of the best athletes on the team won't even be starting. 

Thoughts on a Denard Robinson type position for Sams?  A QB/RB/WR type role?  With our O-Line, Hubert with Gronk, WR core, and Waters (if he is as good as they say).... an "X" factor in Sams could add another solid weapon for a defense to panic about.  JMO