Michigan

[p1k3]

eff unions in their current form. No one should be forced to participate in a union, by law or coercion.  Its patently criminal.

this is sort of what i meant in the beginning. Not sure why we got so side tracked. O well. Carry on

[sys]

MHS Head Principal Terry McCarty just resigned to seek a superintendent job.  He was barely marking over $100K for running one of the and best academic/biggest high schools in the state.

mhs has been one of the best high schools in the state since before i was born, and i'm sure it will continue to be so after this dude leaves.  you can credit the man as a competent placeholder, but given the community makeup and resources, i think it'd be harder for an administrator to allow mhs to lapse into poor shape than it would be to maintain it among the state's best.

i'm guessing they aren't going to lack qualified applicants.  so, i'd think the salary is about right.  if they don't get qualified applicants, i'd certainly be willing to rethink - but i don't think the salary should be based on never losing an upwardly mobile employee.

[Kat Kid]

MHS Head Principal Terry McCarty just resigned to seek a superintendent job.  He was barely marking over $100K for running one of the and best academic/biggest high schools in the state.

mhs has been one of the best high schools in the state since before i was born, and i'm sure it will continue to be so after this dude leaves.  you can credit the man as a competent placeholder, but given the community makeup and resources, i think it'd be harder for an administrator to allow mhs to lapse into poor shape than it would be to maintain it among the state's best.

i'm guessing they aren't going to lack qualified applicants.  so, i'd think the salary is about right.  if they don't get qualified applicants, i'd certainly be willing to rethink - but i don't think the salary should be based on never losing an upwardly mobile employee.

Have you toured the new addition?  I don't think you have.

[sys]

Have you toured the new addition?  I don't think you have.

no, why?

[Rage Against the McKee]

Senior administrators at small rural school systems around here pull in $125 to $150K.

Plus some retire here with full beni's and then travel just across the state line and get another administrative job.

What the the max that educators should earn?  I mean considering that there is literally no way to get a significant promotion in pay in most right to work states as an educator, what should we tell people at the very beginning when they enter the profession is the most they could ever possibly earn?

MHS Head Principal Terry McCarty just resigned to seek a superintendent job.  He was barely marking over $100K for running one of the and best academic/biggest high schools in the state.  If he went to KC, Topeka or Wichita he probably could've made a few extra bucks, but not significantly, so he's hoping to maaaaybe get to $200K as a superintendent depending on where he gets a job.  That is the absolute maximum executive position overseeing a multi-million dollar operation, millions in assets, over 1,000 employees and 5-7,000 students.

Good for him.  Unfortunate to see dax reduced to class warfare and butthurt jealousy about people's paychecks.

I would say good for Manhattan holding firm and letting him go. There is absolutely no reason to pay more than $100k for a principal at MHS. Qualified applicants will line up out the door for that job.

[TheHamburglar]

What the the max that educators should earn?  I mean considering that there is literally no way to get a significant promotion in pay in most right to work states as an educator, what should we tell people at the very beginning when they enter the profession is the most they could ever possibly earn?

Maybe if they are so concerned with pay they shouldn't have chosen to become teachers.    

[ednksu]

What the the max that educators should earn?  I mean considering that there is literally no way to get a significant promotion in pay in most right to work states as an educator, what should we tell people at the very beginning when they enter the profession is the most they could ever possibly earn?

Maybe if they are so concerned with pay they shouldn't have chosen to become teachers.   

these are the kind of ideas, comboed with NCLB that are going to fix our education system.  Right rough ridin' here folks. 

[Rage Against the McKee]

Teachers should start at 50k and then we would get better/smarter teachers.  Also, get rid of the 'education' major at colleges.

I agree that increasing starting pay would help a whole lot, but as teachers still have tenure and raises are not performance-based, I don't think raising salaries will really do much to improve overall quality.

[Kat Kid]

Senior administrators at small rural school systems around here pull in $125 to $150K.

Plus some retire here with full beni's and then travel just across the state line and get another administrative job.

What the the max that educators should earn?  I mean considering that there is literally no way to get a significant promotion in pay in most right to work states as an educator, what should we tell people at the very beginning when they enter the profession is the most they could ever possibly earn?

MHS Head Principal Terry McCarty just resigned to seek a superintendent job.  He was barely marking over $100K for running one of the and best academic/biggest high schools in the state.  If he went to KC, Topeka or Wichita he probably could've made a few extra bucks, but not significantly, so he's hoping to maaaaybe get to $200K as a superintendent depending on where he gets a job.  That is the absolute maximum executive position overseeing a multi-million dollar operation, millions in assets, over 1,000 employees and 5-7,000 students.

Good for him.  Unfortunate to see dax reduced to class warfare and butthurt jealousy about people's paychecks.

I would say good for Manhattan holding firm and letting him go. There is absolutely no reason to pay more than $100k for a principal at MHS. Qualified applicants will line up out the door for that job.

What in the world are you talking about?

[Rage Against the McKee]

Senior administrators at small rural school systems around here pull in $125 to $150K.

Plus some retire here with full beni's and then travel just across the state line and get another administrative job.

What the the max that educators should earn?  I mean considering that there is literally no way to get a significant promotion in pay in most right to work states as an educator, what should we tell people at the very beginning when they enter the profession is the most they could ever possibly earn?

MHS Head Principal Terry McCarty just resigned to seek a superintendent job.  He was barely marking over $100K for running one of the and best academic/biggest high schools in the state.  If he went to KC, Topeka or Wichita he probably could've made a few extra bucks, but not significantly, so he's hoping to maaaaybe get to $200K as a superintendent depending on where he gets a job.  That is the absolute maximum executive position overseeing a multi-million dollar operation, millions in assets, over 1,000 employees and 5-7,000 students.

Good for him.  Unfortunate to see dax reduced to class warfare and butthurt jealousy about people's paychecks.

I would say good for Manhattan holding firm and letting him go. There is absolutely no reason to pay more than $100k for a principal at MHS. Qualified applicants will line up out the door for that job.

What in the world are you talking about?

Why should Manhattan overpay for a position they can easily fill? I'm sure their budget is tight just like every other school in the state, so increasing administrative pay would probably require cuts elsewhere. Also, superintendent is just a better job than principal. Were you inferring that Manhattan should pay their principals like superintendents so they won't leave for better jobs?

[Kat Kid]

Senior administrators at small rural school systems around here pull in $125 to $150K.

Plus some retire here with full beni's and then travel just across the state line and get another administrative job.

What the the max that educators should earn?  I mean considering that there is literally no way to get a significant promotion in pay in most right to work states as an educator, what should we tell people at the very beginning when they enter the profession is the most they could ever possibly earn?

MHS Head Principal Terry McCarty just resigned to seek a superintendent job.  He was barely marking over $100K for running one of the and best academic/biggest high schools in the state.  If he went to KC, Topeka or Wichita he probably could've made a few extra bucks, but not significantly, so he's hoping to maaaaybe get to $200K as a superintendent depending on where he gets a job.  That is the absolute maximum executive position overseeing a multi-million dollar operation, millions in assets, over 1,000 employees and 5-7,000 students.

Good for him.  Unfortunate to see dax reduced to class warfare and butthurt jealousy about people's paychecks.

I would say good for Manhattan holding firm and letting him go. There is absolutely no reason to pay more than $100k for a principal at MHS. Qualified applicants will line up out the door for that job.

What in the world are you talking about?

Why should Manhattan overpay for a position they can easily fill? I'm sure their budget is tight just like every other school in the state, so increasing administrative pay would probably require cuts elsewhere. Also, superintendent is just a better job than principal. Were you inferring that Manhattan should pay their principals like superintendents so they won't leave for better jobs?

No.  But you keep doing that and I'm trying to understand why.

[Rage Against the McKee]

Senior administrators at small rural school systems around here pull in $125 to $150K.

Plus some retire here with full beni's and then travel just across the state line and get another administrative job.

What the the max that educators should earn?  I mean considering that there is literally no way to get a significant promotion in pay in most right to work states as an educator, what should we tell people at the very beginning when they enter the profession is the most they could ever possibly earn?

MHS Head Principal Terry McCarty just resigned to seek a superintendent job.  He was barely marking over $100K for running one of the and best academic/biggest high schools in the state.  If he went to KC, Topeka or Wichita he probably could've made a few extra bucks, but not significantly, so he's hoping to maaaaybe get to $200K as a superintendent depending on where he gets a job.  That is the absolute maximum executive position overseeing a multi-million dollar operation, millions in assets, over 1,000 employees and 5-7,000 students.

Good for him.  Unfortunate to see dax reduced to class warfare and butthurt jealousy about people's paychecks.

I would say good for Manhattan holding firm and letting him go. There is absolutely no reason to pay more than $100k for a principal at MHS. Qualified applicants will line up out the door for that job.

What in the world are you talking about?

Why should Manhattan overpay for a position they can easily fill? I'm sure their budget is tight just like every other school in the state, so increasing administrative pay would probably require cuts elsewhere. Also, superintendent is just a better job than principal. Were you inferring that Manhattan should pay their principals like superintendents so they won't leave for better jobs?

No.  But you keep doing that and I'm trying to understand why.

I thought that was your point, because why bring up a principal resigning to look for a better job if it wasn't? I guess it was just a misunderstanding, then.

[TheHamburglar]

 

What the the max that educators should earn?  I mean considering that there is literally no way to get a significant promotion in pay in most right to work states as an educator, what should we tell people at the very beginning when they enter the profession is the most they could ever possibly earn?

Maybe if they are so concerned with pay they shouldn't have chosen to become teachers.   

these are the kind of ideas, comboed with NCLB that are going to fix our education system.  Right rough ridin' here folks.

Where did I say this would "fix" education?  All I'm saying is don't take a job where everyone knows the pay sucks, then complain about the pay.  If you want to live a lifestyle that requires more money than a teachers salary, don't become a teacher. Would higher teacher salaries improve education over time by attracting better people, of course. However, becoming a teacher then demanding more pay to "fix" education is bullshit, because the only way the teaching going on in your room will improve under that scenario is if this attracts a better teacher to replace you.

[ben ji]

Teachers should start at 50k and then we would get better/smarter teachers.  Also, get rid of the 'education' major at colleges.

I agree that increasing starting pay would help a whole lot, but as teachers still have tenure and raises are not performance-based, I don't think raising salaries will really do much to improve overall quality.

If teachers started at 50k I would be teaching right now and kicking my feet up at the pool all summer.

[Kat Kid]

Senior administrators at small rural school systems around here pull in $125 to $150K.

Plus some retire here with full beni's and then travel just across the state line and get another administrative job.

What the the max that educators should earn?  I mean considering that there is literally no way to get a significant promotion in pay in most right to work states as an educator, what should we tell people at the very beginning when they enter the profession is the most they could ever possibly earn?

MHS Head Principal Terry McCarty just resigned to seek a superintendent job.  He was barely marking over $100K for running one of the and best academic/biggest high schools in the state.  If he went to KC, Topeka or Wichita he probably could've made a few extra bucks, but not significantly, so he's hoping to maaaaybe get to $200K as a superintendent depending on where he gets a job.  That is the absolute maximum executive position overseeing a multi-million dollar operation, millions in assets, over 1,000 employees and 5-7,000 students.

Good for him.  Unfortunate to see dax reduced to class warfare and butthurt jealousy about people's paychecks.

I would say good for Manhattan holding firm and letting him go. There is absolutely no reason to pay more than $100k for a principal at MHS. Qualified applicants will line up out the door for that job.

What in the world are you talking about?

Why should Manhattan overpay for a position they can easily fill? I'm sure their budget is tight just like every other school in the state, so increasing administrative pay would probably require cuts elsewhere. Also, superintendent is just a better job than principal. Were you inferring that Manhattan should pay their principals like superintendents so they won't leave for better jobs?

No.  But you keep doing that and I'm trying to understand why.

I thought that was your point, because why bring up a principal resigning to look for a better job if it wasn't? I guess it was just a misunderstanding, then.

You just quoted the whole sequence.  Why don't you re-read?

[TheHamburglar]

KK, the only point I see I see in your MHS principal example is that a superintendent maxes out at $150-$200K if their school district has over 1,000 employees and 5,000-7,000 students.

By comparison, Schulz started out making $350K at a university with over 24,000 students, an endowment over $350MM, and over 1,200 academic staff.  Plus Schulz has to deal with at least three more major tasks in fundraising, research, and housing & dining. 

The max-out of $150K-$200K for a superintendent of a district that size seems about right. 

[Kat Kid]

KK, the only point I see I see in your MHS principal example is that a superintendent maxes out at $150-$200K if their school district has over 1,000 employees and 5,000-7,000 students.

By comparison, Schulz started out making $350K at a university with over 24,000 students, an endowment over $350MM, and over 1,200 academic staff. 

The max-out of $150K-$200K for a superintendent of a district that size seems about right.

You just compared to another public education job?  I think you are missing the point.

[TheHamburglar]

KK, the only point I see I see in your MHS principal example is that a superintendent maxes out at $150-$200K if their school district has over 1,000 employees and 5,000-7,000 students.

By comparison, Schulz started out making $350K at a university with over 24,000 students, an endowment over $350MM, and over 1,200 academic staff. 

The max-out of $150K-$200K for a superintendent of a district that size seems about right.

You just compared to another public education job?  I think you are missing the point.

OK, what is the point?  That making $350K in a public education job in KS isn't a high enough earning potential?

[Rage Against the McKee]

Teachers should start at 50k and then we would get better/smarter teachers.  Also, get rid of the 'education' major at colleges.

I agree that increasing starting pay would help a whole lot, but as teachers still have tenure and raises are not performance-based, I don't think raising salaries will really do much to improve overall quality.

If teachers started at 50k I would be teaching right now and kicking my feet up at the pool all summer.

Yeah, more people would want to teach, but there would be absolutely no incentive to do a good job or improve once you had the position.

[ednksu]

clowns, your tailor will see you now

[ednksu]

eff unions in their current form. No one should be forced to participate in a union, by law or coercion.  Its patently criminal.

I like it when you make stuff up which is easily proven wrong with a moderate google search.

[8manpick]

Teachers should start at 50k and then we would get better/smarter teachers.  Also, get rid of the 'education' major at colleges.

I agree that increasing starting pay would help a whole lot, but as teachers still have tenure and raises are not performance-based, I don't think raising salaries will really do much to improve overall quality.

If teachers started at 50k I would be teaching right now and kicking my feet up at the pool all summer.

Yeah, more people would want to teach, but there would be absolutely no incentive to do a good job or improve once you had the position.

Yeah, higher starting pay would be no panacea, but it would be a good starting point.  Finding a way to identify and subsequently compensate exceptional teachers is a real challenge.

[Rage Against the McKee]

Teachers should start at 50k and then we would get better/smarter teachers.  Also, get rid of the 'education' major at colleges.

I agree that increasing starting pay would help a whole lot, but as teachers still have tenure and raises are not performance-based, I don't think raising salaries will really do much to improve overall quality.

If teachers started at 50k I would be teaching right now and kicking my feet up at the pool all summer.

Yeah, more people would want to teach, but there would be absolutely no incentive to do a good job or improve once you had the position.

Yeah, higher starting pay would be no panacea, but it would be a good starting point.  Finding a way to identify and subsequently compensate exceptional teachers is a real challenge.

Isn't that why we pay administrators 6 figures? I would hope they would be capable of meeting the challenge of actually evaluating their employees and setting their pay.

[8manpick]

Teachers should start at 50k and then we would get better/smarter teachers.  Also, get rid of the 'education' major at colleges.

I agree that increasing starting pay would help a whole lot, but as teachers still have tenure and raises are not performance-based, I don't think raising salaries will really do much to improve overall quality.

If teachers started at 50k I would be teaching right now and kicking my feet up at the pool all summer.

Yeah, more people would want to teach, but there would be absolutely no incentive to do a good job or improve once you had the position.

Yeah, higher starting pay would be no panacea, but it would be a good starting point.  Finding a way to identify and subsequently compensate exceptional teachers is a real challenge.

Isn't that why we pay administrators 6 figures? I would hope they would be capable of meeting the challenge of actually evaluating their employees and setting their pay.

If I understand correctly, teacher pay is based strictly on education level and tenure.  Along with bonuses for coaching, etc.

[Rage Against the McKee]

Teachers should start at 50k and then we would get better/smarter teachers.  Also, get rid of the 'education' major at colleges.

I agree that increasing starting pay would help a whole lot, but as teachers still have tenure and raises are not performance-based, I don't think raising salaries will really do much to improve overall quality.

If teachers started at 50k I would be teaching right now and kicking my feet up at the pool all summer.

Yeah, more people would want to teach, but there would be absolutely no incentive to do a good job or improve once you had the position.

Yeah, higher starting pay would be no panacea, but it would be a good starting point.  Finding a way to identify and subsequently compensate exceptional teachers is a real challenge.

Isn't that why we pay administrators 6 figures? I would hope they would be capable of meeting the challenge of actually evaluating their employees and setting their pay.

If I understand correctly, teacher pay is based strictly on education level and tenure.  Along with bonuses for coaching, etc.

It is. I'm saying that it shouldn't be. It should be set by their administrators.