Landmark night for civil rights

[CNS]

Grats to Maine, Maryland, Minnesota, & Washington 

I'm still not a fan of having civil rights up to popular vote, but tonight I'm a little less cynical.

BTW how could Minnesota vote for this and Michele Bachmann?  Well she'll win an election but may lose her husband.  She may no longer be a beard.

Colorado legalized weed.

If the R's want to get back in office any time soon, they need to reorganize under this banner they way they reorganized under the Tea Party banner last election.  It would get them in office.

["storm"nut]

HEY GUYS! Salina hates gays and lesbians.  Saline County voted in favor of repealing legislation to protect gay & lesbian rights.

Truth be know, why should the government tell people who to not hate and place specific groups of people above others. Of course its wrong to hate on people just because of their race, sex, or etc but I don't need the government making it illegal. Get off my eff lawn Government.

The government isn't telling you who to hate, they're telling you not to discriminate.  The country was founded on this basic principle, read the bill of rights at some point.

Attitudes like this are again why people shouldn't be trusted with the rights of others.  65% of Americans literally aren't smart enough to understand this stuff.  It's offensive that morons like stormnut has the same weight that I do.  Thankfully dummies generally keep to themselves and those of us that are informed can work and be agents for change.

I have a tough time having the government define a group of people with no definable characteristic other than what they say they are (same goes for religious affiliation). I just brings into question if discrimination ordnance can be truly enforced on something that can not be tested against and that can not be proven other than on ones word.

[MakeItRain]

HEY GUYS! Salina hates gays and lesbians.  Saline County voted in favor of repealing legislation to protect gay & lesbian rights.

Truth be know, why should the government tell people who to not hate and place specific groups of people above others. Of course its wrong to hate on people just because of their race, sex, or etc but I don't need the government making it illegal. Get off my eff lawn Government.

The government isn't telling you who to hate, they're telling you not to discriminate.  The country was founded on this basic principle, read the bill of rights at some point.

Attitudes like this are again why people shouldn't be trusted with the rights of others.  65% of Americans literally aren't smart enough to understand this stuff.  It's offensive that morons like stormnut has the same weight that I do.  Thankfully dummies generally keep to themselves and those of us that are informed can work and be agents for change.

I have a tough time having the government define a group of people with no definable characteristic other than what they say they are (same goes for religious affiliation). I just brings into question if discrimination ordnance can be truly enforced on something that can not be tested against and that can not be proven other than on ones word.

Not an issue if you take people on merit instead of how they identify themselves.  Again just like the other thread, stop worrying about other people.  If you are renting a property your only concern should be ability and execution of paying rent on time and not tearing up crap.  If you're an employer you should be worried about reliability and competency.  None of these things have to do with who you're attracted to, who you pray to, or where you were born.

["storm"nut]

HEY GUYS! Salina hates gays and lesbians.  Saline County voted in favor of repealing legislation to protect gay & lesbian rights.

Truth be know, why should the government tell people who to not hate and place specific groups of people above others. Of course its wrong to hate on people just because of their race, sex, or etc but I don't need the government making it illegal. Get off my eff lawn Government.

The government isn't telling you who to hate, they're telling you not to discriminate.  The country was founded on this basic principle, read the bill of rights at some point.

Attitudes like this are again why people shouldn't be trusted with the rights of others.  65% of Americans literally aren't smart enough to understand this stuff.  It's offensive that morons like stormnut has the same weight that I do.  Thankfully dummies generally keep to themselves and those of us that are informed can work and be agents for change.

I have a tough time having the government define a group of people with no definable characteristic other than what they say they are (same goes for religious affiliation). I just brings into question if discrimination ordnance can be truly enforced on something that can not be tested against and that can not be proven other than on ones word.

Not an issue if you take people on merit instead of how they identify themselves.  Again just like the other thread, stop worrying about other people.  If you are renting a property your only concern should be ability and execution of paying rent on time and not tearing up crap.  If you're an employer you should be worried about reliability and competency.  None of these things have to do with who you're attracted to, who you pray to, or where you were born.

You get no disagreement from me on that, just hate that it has to be written down that you can't do that.

[Bloodfart]

HEY GUYS! Salina hates gays and lesbians.  Saline County voted in favor of repealing legislation to protect gay & lesbian rights.

Saying Salina and Hutchinson hates gays is a bit shortsighted.  They both had anti-discrimination ordinances on the books but the citizens of the cities used legal measures to force votes on civil rights.  As disappointing as those two votes turned out to be, its largely ceremonial and will be even less relevant very soon.

I agree MIR.  I just found it amusing the hypotheticals I heard from a few people in Salina.  I stayed up there on Sunday and monday and it was a real hot topic.  The situations people were using to justify their vote were obscure and probly would never happen.  I truely believe the vast majority of kansans don't give a crap if a person is gay.  They just don't want it shoved in their face. 

[Bloodfart]

I know my original statement was a gross grenerlization.  I wanted to see what opinions others on this board had on the issue at a local level.

["storm"nut]

HEY GUYS! Salina hates gays and lesbians.  Saline County voted in favor of repealing legislation to protect gay & lesbian rights.

Saying Salina and Hutchinson hates gays is a bit shortsighted.  They both had anti-discrimination ordinances on the books but the citizens of the cities used legal measures to force votes on civil rights.  As disappointing as those two votes turned out to be, its largely ceremonial and will be even less relevant very soon.

I agree MIR.  I just found it amusing the hypotheticals I heard from a few people in Salina.  I stayed up there on Sunday and monday and it was a real hot topic.  The situations people were using to justify their vote were obscure and probly would never happen.  I truely believe the vast majority of kansans don't give a crap if a person is gay.  They just don't want it shoved in their face.

Exactly. If anything I would like from gay community is stop trying to make me approve of what you are doing. Why the heck do you want my approval. Go live your life how you want, I will go and live mine how I want.

['taterblast]

excited to see the societies of colorado, maine, and washington absolutely crumble into oblivion.

[Mr Bread]

HEY GUYS! Salina hates gays and lesbians.  Saline County voted in favor of repealing legislation to protect gay & lesbian rights.

Saying Salina and Hutchinson hates gays is a bit shortsighted.  They both had anti-discrimination ordinances on the books but the citizens of the cities used legal measures to force votes on civil rights.  As disappointing as those two votes turned out to be, its largely ceremonial and will be even less relevant very soon.

I agree MIR.  I just found it amusing the hypotheticals I heard from a few people in Salina.  I stayed up there on Sunday and monday and it was a real hot topic.  The situations people were using to justify their vote were obscure and probly would never happen.  I truely believe the vast majority of kansans don't give a crap if a person is gay.  They just don't want it shoved in their face.

Zing!

[8manpick]

excited to see the societies of colorado, maine, and washington absolutely crumble into oblivion.

Guessing you aren't serious?

[Bloodfart]

HEY GUYS! Salina hates gays and lesbians.  Saline County voted in favor of repealing legislation to protect gay & lesbian rights.

Saying Salina and Hutchinson hates gays is a bit shortsighted.  They both had anti-discrimination ordinances on the books but the citizens of the cities used legal measures to force votes on civil rights.  As disappointing as those two votes turned out to be, its largely ceremonial and will be even less relevant very soon.

I agree MIR.  I just found it amusing the hypotheticals I heard from a few people in Salina.  I stayed up there on Sunday and monday and it was a real hot topic.  The situations people were using to justify their vote were obscure and probly would never happen.  I truely believe the vast majority of kansans don't give a crap if a person is gay.  They just don't want it shoved in their face.

Zing!

Wow! freudian slip I guess.

['taterblast]

excited to see the societies of colorado, maine, and washington absolutely crumble into oblivion.

Guessing you aren't serious?

yeah i'm kidding. what that post is essentially saying is i am legitimately excited about the opportunity for those states to show this country that weed and gays will not ruin anything.

[felix rex]

But have you ever tried being gay...on weeeed?

[p1k3]

i think stormnut has a point. You can't just legislate away hate. Bigots gonna bigot.That said, I don't really care if there is a law in place for it or not.

['taterblast]

But have you ever tried being gay...on weeeed?

 

[8manpick]

i think stormnut has a point. You can't just legislate away hate. Bigots gonna bigot.That said, I don't really care if there is a law in place for it or not.

The changes brought by civil rights movements have been overwhelmingly positive for minorities and women.  You can't immediately legislate away hate, but by protecting some groups you can certainly improve their treatment over time.

[p1k3]

i think stormnut has a point. You can't just legislate away hate. Bigots gonna bigot.That said, I don't really care if there is a law in place for it or not.

The changes brought by civil rights movements have been overwhelmingly positive for minorities and women.  You can't immediately legislate away hate, but by protecting some groups you can certainly improve their treatment over time.

Probably right. But couldn't that be a product of changing attitudes/paradigms over time? Just the last decade has seen giant leaps for LGBT, for instance. Not necessarily because some state legislators passed some don't hate the gays law

[8manpick]

i think stormnut has a point. You can't just legislate away hate. Bigots gonna bigot.That said, I don't really care if there is a law in place for it or not.

The changes brought by civil rights movements have been overwhelmingly positive for minorities and women.  You can't immediately legislate away hate, but by protecting some groups you can certainly improve their treatment over time.

Probably right. But couldn't that be a product of changing attitudes/paradigms over time? Just the last decade has seen giant leaps for LGBT, for instance. Not necessarily because some state legislators passed some don't hate the gays law

How long has gay marriage been recognized in some states? About ten years? I agree with you, but I think that part of the impetus for that attitude change is legitimacy in the eyes of the law. Maybe not for the most progressive thinkers, but for the next wave who says, oh maybe that stuff isn't so bad.

[felix rex]

"Bigots gonna bigot" is a pretty strong and succinct argument against storm nut.

Also, I really enjoyed MIR's "65 percent" moment.

[p1k3]

i think stormnut has a point. You can't just legislate away hate. Bigots gonna bigot.That said, I don't really care if there is a law in place for it or not.

The changes brought by civil rights movements have been overwhelmingly positive for minorities and women.  You can't immediately legislate away hate, but by protecting some groups you can certainly improve their treatment over time.

Probably right. But couldn't that be a product of changing attitudes/paradigms over time? Just the last decade has seen giant leaps for LGBT, for instance. Not necessarily because some state legislators passed some don't hate the gays law

How long has gay marriage been recognized in some states? About ten years? I agree with you, but I think that part of the impetus for that attitude change is legitimacy in the eyes of the law. Maybe not for the most progressive thinkers, but for the next wave who says, oh maybe that stuff isn't so bad.

Good0 point. I'm not really taking sides I just don't care if these laws are in place or not

[Rage Against the McKee]

i think stormnut has a point. You can't just legislate away hate. Bigots gonna bigot.That said, I don't really care if there is a law in place for it or not.

The changes brought by civil rights movements have been overwhelmingly positive for minorities and women.  You can't immediately legislate away hate, but by protecting some groups you can certainly improve their treatment over time.

Probably right. But couldn't that be a product of changing attitudes/paradigms over time? Just the last decade has seen giant leaps for LGBT, for instance. Not necessarily because some state legislators passed some don't hate the gays law

How long has gay marriage been recognized in some states? About ten years? I agree with you, but I think that part of the impetus for that attitude change is legitimacy in the eyes of the law. Maybe not for the most progressive thinkers, but for the next wave who says, oh maybe that stuff isn't so bad.

Good0 point. I'm not really taking sides I just don't care if these laws are in place or not

It wouldn't be so bad if the law were never in place. It just makes Salina and the entire state of Kansas look bad when bigots turn out in droves to repeal a law that's already on the books because they don't want gay people in their faces.

["storm"nut]

i think stormnut has a point. You can't just legislate away hate. Bigots gonna bigot.That said, I don't really care if there is a law in place for it or not.

The changes brought by civil rights movements have been overwhelmingly positive for minorities and women.  You can't immediately legislate away hate, but by protecting some groups you can certainly improve their treatment over time.

It was true in the 60's and was need because you had intrenched, irrational hate. If you asked normal, joe blow Christian if they "Hate" gays, they will truly tell you no and mean it. Back during the Civil Right days of the 60's this was just not true.

Another way to look at it is this. Has mistreatment and out right discrimination of people that are gay risen to the level of what we saw after then end of slavery? There is a very vocal minority of people out there that level hate  on people that are gay to that of people of other races but it is no were near the wide spread culturally intrenched as it was in the south.

[Rage Against the McKee]

i think stormnut has a point. You can't just legislate away hate. Bigots gonna bigot.That said, I don't really care if there is a law in place for it or not.

The changes brought by civil rights movements have been overwhelmingly positive for minorities and women.  You can't immediately legislate away hate, but by protecting some groups you can certainly improve their treatment over time.

It was true in the 60's and was need because you had intrenched, irrational hate. If you asked normal, joe blow Christian if they "Hate" gays, they will truly tell you no and mean it. Back during the Civil Right days of the 60's this was just not true.

Another way to look at it is this. Has mistreatment and out right discrimination of people that are gay risen to the level of what we saw after then end of slavery? There is a very vocal minority of people out there that level hate  on people that are gay to that of people of other races but it is no were near the wide spread culturally intrenched as it was in the south.

I think if you were to ask Christian, Joe Montgomery Kansan if he would ever hire a gay person or be comfortable renting an apartment to him, you would be surprised by the number of people who say no.

["storm"nut]

i think stormnut has a point. You can't just legislate away hate. Bigots gonna bigot.That said, I don't really care if there is a law in place for it or not.

The changes brought by civil rights movements have been overwhelmingly positive for minorities and women.  You can't immediately legislate away hate, but by protecting some groups you can certainly improve their treatment over time.

It was true in the 60's and was need because you had intrenched, irrational hate. If you asked normal, joe blow Christian if they "Hate" gays, they will truly tell you no and mean it. Back during the Civil Right days of the 60's this was just not true.

Another way to look at it is this. Has mistreatment and out right discrimination of people that are gay risen to the level of what we saw after then end of slavery? There is a very vocal minority of people out there that level hate  on people that are gay to that of people of other races but it is no were near the wide spread culturally intrenched as it was in the south.

I think if you were to ask Christian, Joe Montgomery Kansan if he would ever hire a gay person or be comfortable renting an apartment to him, you would be surprised by the number of people who say no.

See I think you would be surprise by the other way. Just because the Fred Phelps of the world have a billy club does not mean they represent your level minded christian. I don't know Joe's feelings one way or other but there are only a very small few of the Fred Phelp's in the world.

[Rage Against the McKee]

i think stormnut has a point. You can't just legislate away hate. Bigots gonna bigot.That said, I don't really care if there is a law in place for it or not.

The changes brought by civil rights movements have been overwhelmingly positive for minorities and women.  You can't immediately legislate away hate, but by protecting some groups you can certainly improve their treatment over time.

It was true in the 60's and was need because you had intrenched, irrational hate. If you asked normal, joe blow Christian if they "Hate" gays, they will truly tell you no and mean it. Back during the Civil Right days of the 60's this was just not true.

Another way to look at it is this. Has mistreatment and out right discrimination of people that are gay risen to the level of what we saw after then end of slavery? There is a very vocal minority of people out there that level hate  on people that are gay to that of people of other races but it is no were near the wide spread culturally intrenched as it was in the south.

I think if you were to ask Christian, Joe Montgomery Kansan if he would ever hire a gay person or be comfortable renting an apartment to him, you would be surprised by the number of people who say no.

See I think you would be surprise by the other way. Just because the Fred Phelps of the world have a billy club does not mean they represent your level minded christian. I don't know Joe's feelings one way or other but there are only a very small few of the Fred Phelp's in the world.

I think the Salina election results support my theory more than yours. I would be glad to look at an independent study if you can find one, though.