Apparently, Clemson went hard after Currie

[Belvis Noland]

i believe you when you say that your friends don't think that they'll be fine with it. the problem is that humans as a whole are very, very bad at predicting what will and what won't bring them future happiness, belvis.

I suppose.  I just think that now that this fanbase has had a taste of success in basketball, it's going to be much harder in 2013 to accept failure than it was in the 90s.  Plenty of fanbases are passionate about both football and basketball and I think that 2013 KStaters fall into this class.  And, though there is disagreement about whether Currie/Shulz prioritize basketball, I do think that the BBTF is 1 giant indication that these guys care a LOT more than Weiser/Wefald did.

   

[Skipper44]

everyone on Ksufans wanted a bubble team, it had been a decade since we had enjoyed any kind of drama in March.

While KSU has become a football school (like almost every other BCS school), there is still significantly more enthusiasm for basketball in Manhattan than in every SEC school(save UK), most of the Pac 12 and all the Texas schools. 

The money and commitment KSU can make to hoops is significant and we deserve better than a retread choosing between us and C of C.

[Belvis Noland]

well Gottlieb would have been high risk/high reward. Much like our last 2 hires, which turned out fantastic. Hiring Weber is high risk/low reward. Unless you think dwindling in mediocrity is not a risk. In which case hiring Weber is low risk/low reward.

Yeah, Gottlieb is not anything like our last 2 hires.  For starters, Huggins was a professional basketball coach.  Frank was attached to Te who delivered Beasley. 

Weber may fail.  Gottlieb may have failed.  Difference is that Weber is a basketball coach and Gottlieb is a journalist who played basketball in college.   

   

[steve dave]

I don't think Weber was a high risk hire. I think he was a pretty guaranteed comodity.

[CNS]

The expectations of fans from the Wooly days are irrelevant.  We tasted success for long enough to reasonably expect that given the correct management, it could be sustained at that level. 

[pissclams]

The expectations of fans from the Wooly days are irrelevant.  We tasted success for long enough to reasonably expect that given the correct management, it could be sustained at that level. 

those expectations are relevant because they bring perspective to the discussion.

[Skipper44]

I don't think Weber was a high risk hire. I think he was a pretty guaranteed comodity.

I disagree - he completely lost his team last year.  I mean, I guess Dave Bliss did a worse job

[0.42]

At least we didn't hire Doug Davalos.

[steve dave]

I don't think Weber was a high risk hire. I think he was a pretty guaranteed comodity.

I disagree - he completely lost his team last year.  I mean, I guess Dave Bliss did a worse job

I don't think you understand what I'm saying

[michigancat]

If you're honest with yourself, you know what Weber will provide, as he had 9 years in a very similar situation at a similar institution and ended in him getting fired. So you can call that high-risk, low-risk, no-risk, whatever. You can even throw in a neckbrace strawman if you'd like, but it doesn't change the fact that there is more than enough evidence to accurately predict that Weber will fail.

I fully admit that Gottlieb could have crashed and burned, but I think the crash could have come quickly enough that people would still care. He also had a fantastic roster that likely would have done quite well and helped trick people that think basketball isn't 90% recruiting into believing that he could "coach".

The long, slow, gradual diminishing expectations that Weber provide is a much sadder death and will be more difficult to recover from than the worst case scenario under Gottlieb IMO.

[kim carnes]

If you're honest with yourself, you know what Weber will provide, as he had 9 years in a very similar situation at a similar institution and ended in him getting fired. So you can call that high-risk, low-risk, no-risk, whatever. You can even throw in a neckbrace strawman if you'd like, but it doesn't change the fact that there is more than enough evidence to accurately predict that Weber will fail.

I fully admit that Gottlieb could have crashed and burned, but I think the crash could have come quickly enough that people would still care. He also had a fantastic roster that likely would have done quite well and helped trick people that think basketball isn't 90% recruiting into believing that he could "coach".

The long, slow, gradual diminishing expectations that Weber provide is a much sadder death and will be more difficult to recover from than the worst case scenario under Gottlieb IMO.

i am honest with myself, and i don't know.

[michigancat]

If you're honest with yourself, you know what Weber will provide, as he had 9 years in a very similar situation at a similar institution and ended in him getting fired. So you can call that high-risk, low-risk, no-risk, whatever. You can even throw in a neckbrace strawman if you'd like, but it doesn't change the fact that there is more than enough evidence to accurately predict that Weber will fail.

I fully admit that Gottlieb could have crashed and burned, but I think the crash could have come quickly enough that people would still care. He also had a fantastic roster that likely would have done quite well and helped trick people that think basketball isn't 90% recruiting into believing that he could "coach".

The long, slow, gradual diminishing expectations that Weber provide is a much sadder death and will be more difficult to recover from than the worst case scenario under Gottlieb IMO.

i am honest with myself, and i don't know.

you are such a rough ridin' liar

[steve dave]

If you're honest with yourself, you know what Weber will provide, as he had 9 years in a very similar situation at a similar institution and ended in him getting fired. So you can call that high-risk, low-risk, no-risk, whatever. You can even throw in a neckbrace strawman if you'd like, but it doesn't change the fact that there is more than enough evidence to accurately predict that Weber will fail.

I fully admit that Gottlieb could have crashed and burned, but I think the crash could have come quickly enough that people would still care. He also had a fantastic roster that likely would have done quite well and helped trick people that think basketball isn't 90% recruiting into believing that he could "coach".

The long, slow, gradual diminishing expectations that Weber provide is a much sadder death and will be more difficult to recover from than the worst case scenario under Gottlieb IMO.

yep, pretty much the most guaranteed commodity you can get in college basketball

[Belvis Noland]

With Lowery at SIU, they had some great mid major teams.  At Illinois, with another guys players, they were really good.  With his own players, they were good some years and trash other years.  At the end, he wasn't consistent enough and got fired.  Recruiting was pretty good, in terms of * ratings.  Maybe he didn't have the right mix.  Maybe his players didn't play hard b/c he's a garbage, gap toothed coach.  Maybe he was unlucky.  Who rough ridin' knows? 

All I know is he's got a long history in the coaching world.  He's experienced a lot.  And he's had stretches with great success and dismal failure. 

Since I don't have a choice in the matter, I'm going to hope he has a stretch of success here. Is it possible?  Yes, quite possible.  Is it guaranteed?  Hell no. 

[Barry McCockner]

Don't know/care whether you are a oscar apologist or not, but just watch.  The "can't recruit to K-State" talking point is going to come back with a vengeance, whether you individually make that argument or not.

Well, like I said, I'll never make the argument.  Never have.  Days of Timmy Weiser are over.  All things KSTATEO seem to be diminishing.  In all seriousness, this is as close to a golden era as fans have had in K-State sports history.  I hope that with the NCAA bball and football success and the massive facility upgrades, and with the night and day transformation of the general fan experience, fans will fiercly resist devolving into another era of Wooly mediocrity. 

I hope I'm not wrong.  Ironically, the worst thing that could happen is sustained football success.  See Nebraska.

This.

[michigancat]

Don't know/care whether you are a oscar apologist or not, but just watch.  The "can't recruit to K-State" talking point is going to come back with a vengeance, whether you individually make that argument or not.

Well, like I said, I'll never make the argument.  Never have.  Days of Timmy Weiser are over.  All things KSTATEO seem to be diminishing.  In all seriousness, this is as close to a golden era as fans have had in K-State sports history.  I hope that with the NCAA bball and football success and the massive facility upgrades, and with the night and day transformation of the general fan experience, fans will fiercly resist devolving into another era of Wooly mediocrity. 

I hope I'm not wrong.  Ironically, the worst thing that could happen is sustained football success.  See Nebraska.

This.

Oh, bullshit. You can also see Oklahoma, Michigan, Ohio State, and Florida. We're just adding cars to the excuse train if we blame football success for ANYTHING bad that happens to basketball.

[Belvis Noland]

Jesuscrist dude, why so angry?

Just saying that being good inone sport foster complacency in other sports.  Happened to us in the 90s. Its happened at KU in football.  It happens. 

Not an excuse. Just reality.  Hope our fan base doesn't lose its edge and fall victim to this. We've got the resources, facilities and fan support to be elite in both sports.  No excuses.

[sys]

It's highly debateable if Upshaw could have even gotten into school.

name one person in the history of the world that couldn't get into kstate but could get into another 4 yr university.

[Belvis Noland]

Btw, just saw u cited Oklahoma?  That's got to be the most apathetic bball fan base in the Conference.

[sys]

Btw, just saw u cited Oklahoma?  That's got to be the most apathetic bball fan base in the Conference.

but it didn't stop them from being good in bball for a long period of time.

[Dugout DickStone]

We've come a long way. 

But don't you feel like we've thrown it all away?

No, I certainly don't. I don't think the expectation to win will go down dramatically.

This season, or at anytime in oscar's time here?  I agree with this season, but I think a large part of our base will be just fine if he wins less than Frank did, eventually.

They won't have a choice.

[kim carnes]

It's highly debateable if Upshaw could have even gotten into school.

name one person in the history of the world that couldn't get into kstate but could get into another 4 yr university.

robert upshaw maybe?

[michigancat]

Correlation does not equal causation.

Dana Altman and Tom Asbury were responsible for our shitty basketball, not LHC Bill Snyder, just like Terry Allen was responsible for shitty KU football.

[sys]

robert upshaw maybe?

completely unfair, kim.

[sys]

Correlation does not equal causation.

Dana Altman and Tom Asbury were responsible for our shitty basketball, not LHC Bill Snyder.

don't be ridiculous.  he killed it once, and came back to kill it again.