Author Topic: Nino and Doc - Didn't have what it took  (Read 27373 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline chum1

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 22457
    • View Profile
Re: Nino and Doc - Didn't have what it took
« Reply #175 on: October 18, 2012, 11:28:48 PM »
He was abusive.  But when you're winning, who cares, right?

Offline michigancat

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 55976
  • change your stupid avatar.
    • View Profile
Re: Nino and Doc - Didn't have what it took
« Reply #176 on: October 18, 2012, 11:40:14 PM »
He was abusive.  But when you're winning, who cares, right?

Exactly. Of course, all college coaches are abusive.

Offline chum1

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 22457
    • View Profile
Re: Nino and Doc - Didn't have what it took
« Reply #177 on: October 19, 2012, 12:07:02 AM »
He was abusive.  But when you're winning, who cares, right?

Exactly. Of course, all college coaches are abusive.

If so, they are to different degrees and he was very near the top of the scale by today's standards.  It went beyond embarrassing to being uncomfortable/morally questionable/impermissible workplace behavior stuff.  The type of stuff that coaches have been fired over lately.

Offline michigancat

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 55976
  • change your stupid avatar.
    • View Profile
Re: Nino and Doc - Didn't have what it took
« Reply #178 on: October 19, 2012, 12:15:04 AM »
He was abusive.  But when you're winning, who cares, right?

Exactly. Of course, all college coaches are abusive.

If so, they are to different degrees and he was very near the top of the scale by today's standards.  It went beyond embarrassing to being uncomfortable/morally questionable/impermissible workplace behavior stuff.  The type of stuff that coaches have been fired over lately.

He was a showman, but I really don't think anything he said or did was actually worse than most coaches. It was more embarrassing because he didn't try to hide it, but all coaches pull the crap he pulled.

Offline chum1

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 22457
    • View Profile
Re: Nino and Doc - Didn't have what it took
« Reply #179 on: October 19, 2012, 12:43:10 AM »
He was abusive.  But when you're winning, who cares, right?

Exactly. Of course, all college coaches are abusive.

If so, they are to different degrees and he was very near the top of the scale by today's standards.  It went beyond embarrassing to being uncomfortable/morally questionable/impermissible workplace behavior stuff.  The type of stuff that coaches have been fired over lately.

He was a showman, but I really don't think anything he said or did was actually worse than most coaches. It was more embarrassing because he didn't try to hide it, but all coaches pull the crap he pulled.

I don't expect hardly anyone to acknowledge it when their personal happiness is at stake, but that's not even a very good rationalization. 

Offline michigancat

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 55976
  • change your stupid avatar.
    • View Profile
Re: Re: Nino and Doc - Didn't have what it took
« Reply #180 on: October 19, 2012, 07:53:35 AM »
He was abusive.  But when you're winning, who cares, right?

Exactly. Of course, all college coaches are abusive.

If so, they are to different degrees and he was very near the top of the scale by today's standards.  It went beyond embarrassing to being uncomfortable/morally questionable/impermissible workplace behavior stuff.  The type of stuff that coaches have been fired over lately.

He was a showman, but I really don't think anything he said or did was actually worse than most coaches. It was more embarrassing because he didn't try to hide it, but all coaches pull the crap he pulled.

I don't expect hardly anyone to acknowledge it when their personal happiness is at stake, but that's not even a very good rationalization.

:thumbs: 

When you put it that way, I guess you and I are both just drawing thin and grey right/wrong lines in slightly different places for our own personal happiness.

Offline chum1

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 22457
    • View Profile
Re: Re: Nino and Doc - Didn't have what it took
« Reply #181 on: October 19, 2012, 08:17:16 AM »
He was abusive.  But when you're winning, who cares, right?

Exactly. Of course, all college coaches are abusive.

If so, they are to different degrees and he was very near the top of the scale by today's standards.  It went beyond embarrassing to being uncomfortable/morally questionable/impermissible workplace behavior stuff.  The type of stuff that coaches have been fired over lately.

He was a showman, but I really don't think anything he said or did was actually worse than most coaches. It was more embarrassing because he didn't try to hide it, but all coaches pull the crap he pulled.

I don't expect hardly anyone to acknowledge it when their personal happiness is at stake, but that's not even a very good rationalization.

:thumbs: 

When you put it that way, I guess you and I are both just drawing thin and grey right/wrong lines in slightly different places for our own personal happiness.

Martin's toned down behavior was discussed here.  Bo Pelini is another example of a guy who has toned down his behavior.  The only reason that sort of thing happens is when you've had to have a discussion about it with your boss.  If you don't change your behavior when your boss tells you to, you get fired.  The line between getting fired and not getting fired over appropriate behavior is not gray.  And it not one most coaches ever come near.   

Offline michigancat

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 55976
  • change your stupid avatar.
    • View Profile
Re: Re: Re: Nino and Doc - Didn't have what it took
« Reply #182 on: October 19, 2012, 10:37:25 AM »
He was abusive.  But when you're winning, who cares, right?

Exactly. Of course, all college coaches are abusive.

If so, they are to different degrees and he was very near the top of the scale by today's standards.  It went beyond embarrassing to being uncomfortable/morally questionable/impermissible workplace behavior stuff.  The type of stuff that coaches have been fired over lately.

He was a showman, but I really don't think anything he said or did was actually worse than most coaches. It was more embarrassing because he didn't try to hide it, but all coaches pull the crap he pulled.

I don't expect hardly anyone to acknowledge it when their personal happiness is at stake, but that's not even a very good rationalization.

:thumbs: 

When you put it that way, I guess you and I are both just drawing thin and grey right/wrong lines in slightly different places for our own personal happiness.

Martin's toned down behavior was discussed here.  Bo Pelini is another example of a guy who has toned down his behavior.  The only reason that sort of thing happens is when you've had to have a discussion about it with your boss.  If you don't change your behavior when your boss tells you to, you get fired.  The line between getting fired and not getting fired over appropriate behavior is not gray.  And it not one most coaches ever come near.   

You think Frank changed his behavior? OKAY.

Offline sonofdaxjones

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 59711
    • View Profile
Re: Nino and Doc - Didn't have what it took
« Reply #183 on: October 19, 2012, 10:44:13 AM »
The college coaching rankings are filled with prima donna's . . . Frank fell into the worst kind.   The over the top, irrational, enraged, ultra paranoid prima donna whose reputation (well earned I might add) as such had proceeded him into the recruiting market place and was on display early and often for all the world to see.   

Bill Self (for example) is a pain in the ass prima donna, who can be and often is a total bad person too his players . . . during practice, and behind closed doors, and on occasion on the bench . . . albeit most of the time it is because they did make a real mistake and didn't just breath in and out wrong or stand on the wrong spot on the floor for .6 seconds (like with Frank).  Self by all accounts can turn on (and turn off) the complete bad person switch at the drop of a hat.   But unlike Frank, he's smoother, more comfortable in his own skin and from the beginning of his career until now, vastly more successful.






 

Offline slimz

  • PCKK7DC Survivor
  • Katpak'r
  • *******
  • Posts: 2128
    • View Profile
Re: Re: Nino and Doc - Didn't have what it took
« Reply #184 on: October 19, 2012, 10:48:04 AM »
[Nevermind. I'm staying out of this.]
« Last Edit: October 19, 2012, 10:55:37 AM by slimz »

Online pissclams

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 47974
  • (worst non-premium poster at goEMAW.com)
    • View Profile
Re: Nino and Doc - Didn't have what it took
« Reply #185 on: October 19, 2012, 12:09:46 PM »
He was abusive.  But when you're winning, who cares, right?

Exactly. Of course, all college coaches are abusive.

If so, they are to different degrees and he was very near the top of the scale by today's standards.  It went beyond embarrassing to being uncomfortable/morally questionable/impermissible workplace behavior stuff.  The type of stuff that coaches have been fired over lately.

He was a showman, but I really don't think anything he said or did was actually worse than most coaches. It was more embarrassing because he didn't try to hide it, but all coaches pull the crap he pulled.
Including oscar!


Cheesy Mustache QB might make an appearance.

New warning: Don't get in a fight with someone who doesn't even need to bother to buy ink.

Offline FuzzyWuzzy

  • Combo-Fan
  • **
  • Posts: 438
    • View Profile
Re: Nino and Doc - Didn't have what it took
« Reply #186 on: October 19, 2012, 01:33:45 PM »
Quote
Multiple players mentioned that Weber is putting more of an early emphasis on offense, while Martin's focus was more at the defensive end, plus there has been a host of new "how to" teaching assignments.

"We're getting some of them to break some habits that they've had for three years," said Weber. "They're not bad habits, but different habits. That includes how you help on defense, where you help, and how you deny and how you defend screens. We just do it differently. They were successful with how they did things, but we do it another way."

Weber added, "There's a saying that it takes 29 days to create a habit, well, we're trying to break some three-year-old habits in a short amount of time."

To be honest, most coaches aren't successful at making both teams play like garbage and somehow coming out on top.  During the Frank years we had no offense except to stand around and watch Beasley/Pullen/Clemente 1v5 the other team.  I think he was right to go in a different direction here.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2012, 12:09:15 PM by FuzzyWuzzy »

Offline CNS

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 38108
  • I'm Athletes
    • View Profile
Re: Nino and Doc - Didn't have what it took
« Reply #187 on: October 19, 2012, 01:39:11 PM »
We were much more complicated offensively than you give us credit for.

Also, Senior Bread, board expert on all things oscar as well as all things requiring judgment on appearance, has said more than once that oscar's offense is motion without direction.  Movement for movement's sake, and that he will then toss players under the buss for not doing something out of that chaos.


Offline FuzzyWuzzy

  • Combo-Fan
  • **
  • Posts: 438
    • View Profile
Re: Nino and Doc - Didn't have what it took
« Reply #188 on: October 19, 2012, 01:46:25 PM »
Also, Senior Bread, board expert on all things oscar as well as all things requiring judgment on appearance, has said more than once that oscar's offense is motion without direction.  Movement for movement's sake, and that he will then toss players under the buss for not doing something out of that chaos.

so he's like a bad dick bennett or bob knight?

edit: for those who don't know, dick bennett was the LHC Bill Snyder of wisconsin basketball
« Last Edit: October 19, 2012, 01:53:48 PM by FuzzyWuzzy »

Offline chum1

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 22457
    • View Profile
Re: Re: Re: Nino and Doc - Didn't have what it took
« Reply #189 on: October 19, 2012, 01:57:36 PM »
He was abusive.  But when you're winning, who cares, right?

Exactly. Of course, all college coaches are abusive.

If so, they are to different degrees and he was very near the top of the scale by today's standards.  It went beyond embarrassing to being uncomfortable/morally questionable/impermissible workplace behavior stuff.  The type of stuff that coaches have been fired over lately.

He was a showman, but I really don't think anything he said or did was actually worse than most coaches. It was more embarrassing because he didn't try to hide it, but all coaches pull the crap he pulled.

I don't expect hardly anyone to acknowledge it when their personal happiness is at stake, but that's not even a very good rationalization.

:thumbs: 

When you put it that way, I guess you and I are both just drawing thin and grey right/wrong lines in slightly different places for our own personal happiness.

Martin's toned down behavior was discussed here.  Bo Pelini is another example of a guy who has toned down his behavior.  The only reason that sort of thing happens is when you've had to have a discussion about it with your boss.  If you don't change your behavior when your boss tells you to, you get fired.  The line between getting fired and not getting fired over appropriate behavior is not gray.  And it not one most coaches ever come near.   

You think Frank changed his behavior? OKAY.

Not just me.  There were a couple of threads about it.  One worried about the prospects of success for "new Frank" in last year's tournament.

Offline chum1

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 22457
    • View Profile
Re: Nino and Doc - Didn't have what it took
« Reply #190 on: October 19, 2012, 02:08:01 PM »
Honestly, though, if someone can't look at Martin's behavior and see a whole lot of Mark Mangino and very little Turner Gill, there's not much to discuss here.

Offline Mr Bread

  • We Gave You Bruce
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 7867
  • I've distressing news.
    • View Profile
Re: Nino and Doc - Didn't have what it took
« Reply #191 on: October 19, 2012, 03:25:54 PM »
We were much more complicated offensively than you give us credit for.

Also, Senior Bread, board expert on all things oscar as well as all things requiring judgment on appearance, has said more than once that oscar's offense is motion without direction.  Movement for movement's sake, and that he will then toss players under the buss for not doing something out of that chaos.

This is true.  The only group that "got it" was exceptionally talented in their own right.  Probably would have "gotten" a lot of offensive systems.  After Deron and Luther left it was all downhill and remained that way.  Initially it was blamed on missing out on top recruits, then Weber landed several classes of highly rated kids and it was blamed on not recruiting players that fit his system and then he got fired.  It typically devolves into listless running around and a bad shot at the end of the clock.  And low scoring games.  As bad as the mediocre win-loss results were, the ugly ass basketball is pretty tough to stomach after a while.  So not only are you pissed because you're not winning and because oscar is a rough ridin' doofus, but then the media routinely takes shots at the team for "setting basketball back _______ years."   Woof.
My prescience is fully engorged.  It throbs with righteous accuracy.  I am sated.

Offline Mr Bread

  • We Gave You Bruce
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 7867
  • I've distressing news.
    • View Profile
Re: Nino and Doc - Didn't have what it took
« Reply #192 on: October 19, 2012, 03:27:05 PM »
He was abusive.  But when you're winning, who cares, right?

Exactly. Of course, all college coaches are abusive.

If so, they are to different degrees and he was very near the top of the scale by today's standards.  It went beyond embarrassing to being uncomfortable/morally questionable/impermissible workplace behavior stuff.  The type of stuff that coaches have been fired over lately.

He was a showman, but I really don't think anything he said or did was actually worse than most coaches. It was more embarrassing because he didn't try to hide it, but all coaches pull the crap he pulled.
Including oscar!


:babywillie:  Hi, 'clams. 
My prescience is fully engorged.  It throbs with righteous accuracy.  I am sated.

Offline DQ12

  • PCKK7DC Survivor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *******
  • Posts: 22787
  • #TeamChestHair
    • View Profile
Re: Nino and Doc - Didn't have what it took
« Reply #193 on: October 19, 2012, 03:47:43 PM »
DNR this whole thread, but what a trainwreck of a sentence:

Quote
But Spradling enjoyed the experience all the same. Not just because the new offense built up his endurance, allows players more freedom and he thinks the Wildcats are close to mastering it, either.


"You want to stand next to someone and not be able to hear them, walk your ass into Manhattan, Kansas." - [REDACTED]

Offline sys

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 40815
  • your reputation will never recover, nor should it.
    • View Profile
Re: Nino and Doc - Didn't have what it took
« Reply #194 on: October 19, 2012, 03:52:26 PM »
i'm not sure that the traditional motion offense has great potential in the 35 sec shot clock world.  if you shoot enough 3s, perhaps, but i certainly don't think it offers you an advantage.
"a garden city man wondered in april if the theologians had not made a mistake in locating the garden of eden in asia rather than in the arkansas river valley."

Offline Mr Bread

  • We Gave You Bruce
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 7867
  • I've distressing news.
    • View Profile
Re: Nino and Doc - Didn't have what it took
« Reply #195 on: October 19, 2012, 04:09:52 PM »
i'm not sure that the traditional motion offense has great potential in the 35 sec shot clock world.  if you shoot enough 3s, perhaps, but i certainly don't think it offers you an advantage.

Man, oscar is gonna shove your face right in that statement.  Smoo-oosh.  I hope you enjoy eating every single one of the words you typed.  Table for one, sys?  Yeah. 
My prescience is fully engorged.  It throbs with righteous accuracy.  I am sated.

Offline FuzzyWuzzy

  • Combo-Fan
  • **
  • Posts: 438
    • View Profile
Re: Nino and Doc - Didn't have what it took
« Reply #196 on: October 19, 2012, 04:22:51 PM »
i'm not sure that the traditional motion offense has great potential in the 35 sec shot clock world.  if you shoot enough 3s, perhaps, but i certainly don't think it offers you an advantage.

this is not necessarily true.  More important than jacking up 3's is having solid, HBBIQ big guys who can knock down open jumpers...as they will spend a lot of time not being in low post.  This offense opens the post for all five players, so having guards/SF's that can play inside is important(i.e. Alando Tucker, Marcus Landry).  *Wisconsin has had great success with the motion/swing offense for the last 15 years even though the only 5 star recruit they landed in that time was Brian Butch :lol:. So, the motion offense can be effective without top prospects if you recruit for it.  I'm not saying oscar is any good or that the offense is right for this team.  Motion offense is definitely very frustrating to watch at times, but it can be very effective with the right players/coach.

*Sorry to keep going back to Wisconsin, but that is were i grew up before coming to KSU.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2012, 02:19:53 PM by FuzzyWuzzy »

Offline CNS

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 38108
  • I'm Athletes
    • View Profile
Re: Nino and Doc - Didn't have what it took
« Reply #197 on: October 19, 2012, 04:33:58 PM »
If I have to watch Wisconsin style BB, oscar will undue all that Frank has built.

Bo Ryan hates his uni.  He has to hate it only slightly less than losing.  I mean, sure he does alright in the tourney, but his fans have to suffer the absolute worst kind of BB known to man.  Only someone who hates those fans would subject them to such a horribly boring crap show year after year.

Absolutely horrible. 

Seriously, if this happens, life is going to be horrible.

Offline michigancat

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 55976
  • change your stupid avatar.
    • View Profile
Re: Nino and Doc - Didn't have what it took
« Reply #198 on: October 19, 2012, 04:39:56 PM »
What's funny about Bo Ryan offense lovers is that his teams generally pass and dribble...errrr....run the offense until the end of the shot clock and end up having someone make a great one-on-one move to score. They aren't out there getting wide open layups all night - no one at this level does with any degree of consistency.

Offline FuzzyWuzzy

  • Combo-Fan
  • **
  • Posts: 438
    • View Profile
Re: Nino and Doc - Didn't have what it took
« Reply #199 on: October 19, 2012, 04:47:26 PM »
What's funny about Bo Ryan offense lovers is that his teams generally pass and dribble...errrr....run the offense until the end of the shot clock and end up having someone make a great one-on-one move to score. They aren't out there getting wide open layups all night - no one at this level does with any degree of consistency.

they often end up getting a mismatch inside or an open jumper.  this doesn't work 100% of possessions, in which case you have to force a shot, but they are generally one of the better teams in the nation as far as offensive efficiency goes.