Record Gas Prices . .

[8manpick]

I'm surprised that the great ethanol debate hasn't at least been mentioned when discussing record high gas prices.  Remember those mandatory E10 stickers on pumps and the "I'm not filling up with that there etheenol (sic) crowd because I like to eat yellow corn (no Iowa) and it makes my engine blow up?"  With the banning of MTBE and subsequent replacement with ethanol, bye-bye E10 stickers in the majority of states.  Add in the loss of ethanol subsidies, the permanent or temporary closure of ethanol plants due to corn prices, and the fact that the other unbanned additives are more expensive than four years ago, and you have a two-fold effect on gas prices at the pump.  The ethanol factor is one example of the many variables that go into the gasoline price (less ozone emitting fuel during the summer from expensive additives/refining is another one that comes to mind) that the current president watched over.  Ironically, the majority of the subtle variables that were changed over the last four years are the ones that had the most say in where the price is now.  97 buck oil and record high gas prices?   

No idea which side you were taking.

Ethanol as a fuel is a total waste of resources and takes a relatively exorbitant amount of energy to derive fuel that we can use for our vehicles in this way.  Production of ethanol fuel (after the corn / plant material is at the refinery) uses far more energy that we get out of it.  Could be that technology could change this, but we are nowhere close.

[EMAWican]

I'm surprised that the great ethanol debate hasn't at least been mentioned when discussing record high gas prices.  Remember those mandatory E10 stickers on pumps and the "I'm not filling up with that there etheenol (sic) crowd because I like to eat yellow corn (no Iowa) and it makes my engine blow up?"  With the banning of MTBE and subsequent replacement with ethanol, bye-bye E10 stickers in the majority of states.  Add in the loss of ethanol subsidies, the permanent or temporary closure of ethanol plants due to corn prices, and the fact that the other unbanned additives are more expensive than four years ago, and you have a two-fold effect on gas prices at the pump.  The ethanol factor is one example of the many variables that go into the gasoline price (less ozone emitting fuel during the summer from expensive additives/refining is another one that comes to mind) that the current president watched over.  Ironically, the majority of the subtle variables that were changed over the last four years are the ones that had the most say in where the price is now.  97 buck oil and record high gas prices?   

I've read this post twice, and I'm still not quite sure which side of the ethanol debate EMAWican has chosen to take. I think it's the big government side, though.

The ethanol debate is irrelevant.  I was using that to illustrate that it's not as easy as drill, pump, refine, speculate, price, distribute, use.

[EMAWican]

I'm surprised that the great ethanol debate hasn't at least been mentioned when discussing record high gas prices.  Remember those mandatory E10 stickers on pumps and the "I'm not filling up with that there etheenol (sic) crowd because I like to eat yellow corn (no Iowa) and it makes my engine blow up?"  With the banning of MTBE and subsequent replacement with ethanol, bye-bye E10 stickers in the majority of states.  Add in the loss of ethanol subsidies, the permanent or temporary closure of ethanol plants due to corn prices, and the fact that the other unbanned additives are more expensive than four years ago, and you have a two-fold effect on gas prices at the pump.  The ethanol factor is one example of the many variables that go into the gasoline price (less ozone emitting fuel during the summer from expensive additives/refining is another one that comes to mind) that the current president watched over.  Ironically, the majority of the subtle variables that were changed over the last four years are the ones that had the most say in where the price is now.  97 buck oil and record high gas prices?   

No idea which side you were taking.

Ethanol as a fuel is a total waste of resources and takes a relatively exorbitant amount of energy to derive fuel that we can use for our vehicles in this way.  Production of ethanol fuel (after the corn / plant material is at the refinery) uses far more energy that we get out of it.  Could be that technology could change this, but we are nowhere close.

That's the point.  There's 3-10% - always closer to 10% - ethanol in that next tank when you fill up and you don't have a say in it.  Thanks to the banning on MTBE (and a couple other minute reasons) more expensive ethanol has replaced pure ole petroleum gasoline.  That's why gas prices are at all-time highs.  The make-up of "gasoline" is completely different than it was four years ago, which makes it more expensive.  Goodbye to the days of "petroleum gasoline".

[8manpick]

Goodbye to the days of "petroleum gasoline".

I immediately thought of "Bring back leaded gasoline " but yeah I agree mostly.

[EMAWican]

Goodbye to the days of "petroleum gasoline".

I immediately thought of "Bring back leaded gasoline " but yeah I agree mostly.

My new favorite is more expensive "ozone-friendly gasoline" that has to be mixed for the summer months and is distributed in certain areas (KC is the closest for most of us).  Who says the president doesn't have a say in gas prices?  In 2006 when the EPA wanted to lower the ozone standard from 84 ppb to 60-70 ppb and settled on 75 ppb, that directly would increase our gas prices without anyone even realizing it.  Obama rejecting lowering the new standards last year probably saved another 10-20 cents per gallon of increased cost at the pump.  The ozone standard is up for review next year btw

[8manpick]

Goodbye to the days of "petroleum gasoline".

I immediately thought of "Bring back leaded gasoline " but yeah I agree mostly.

My new favorite is more expensive "ozone-friendly gasoline" that has to be mixed for the summer months and is distributed in certain areas (KC is the closest for most of us).  Who says the president doesn't have a say in gas prices?  In 2006 when the EPA wanted to lower the ozone standard from 84 ppb to 60-70 ppb and settled on 75 ppb, that directly would increase our gas prices without anyone even realizing it.  Obama rejecting lowering the new standards last year probably saved another 10-20 cents per gallon of increased cost at the pump.  The ozone standard is up for review next year btw

If this "ozone-friendly gasoline" is actually ozone-friendly, then count me in. 

[XocolateThundarr]

Goodbye to the days of "petroleum gasoline".

I immediately thought of "Bring back leaded gasoline " but yeah I agree mostly.

My new favorite is more expensive "ozone-friendly gasoline" that has to be mixed for the summer months and is distributed in certain areas (KC is the closest for most of us).  Who says the president doesn't have a say in gas prices?  In 2006 when the EPA wanted to lower the ozone standard from 84 ppb to 60-70 ppb and settled on 75 ppb, that directly would increase our gas prices without anyone even realizing it.  Obama rejecting lowering the new standards last year probably saved another 10-20 cents per gallon of increased cost at the pump.  The ozone standard is up for review next year btw

If this "ozone-friendly gasoline" is actually ozone-friendly, then count me in.

"Ozone-friendly" just as much as "carbon credits" help the environment.  Just another rough ridin' line to make people feel better....   

[puniraptor]

This is why I am against new drilling in the USA. Wait for all the other chumps to run out of oil, then open up alaska drilling and become chamillionaires. I think this stance may be why the survey told me i was in love with Jill Stein.

[EMAWican]

Goodbye to the days of "petroleum gasoline".

I immediately thought of "Bring back leaded gasoline " but yeah I agree mostly.

My new favorite is more expensive "ozone-friendly gasoline" that has to be mixed for the summer months and is distributed in certain areas (KC is the closest for most of us).  Who says the president doesn't have a say in gas prices?  In 2006 when the EPA wanted to lower the ozone standard from 84 ppb to 60-70 ppb and settled on 75 ppb, that directly would increase our gas prices without anyone even realizing it.  Obama rejecting lowering the new standards last year probably saved another 10-20 cents per gallon of increased cost at the pump.  The ozone standard is up for review next year btw

If this "ozone-friendly gasoline" is actually ozone-friendly, then count me in.

"Ozone-friendly" just as much as "carbon credits" help the environment.  Just another rough ridin' line to make people feel better....   

Typical deal, "ozone-friendly gasoline" does help with strickly ground-level ozone, because it lowers the amount of VOCs emitted, but than we add more ethanol to the mixture, which emitts CO2, a greenhouse gas, during production, and then the EPA gets all pissy and regulates greenhouse gases (CO2), which in turn raises the cost of ethanol, which in turn raises the cost of gas two to three-fold.  All because of that one ozone standard that was lowered in 2006 that the president approved.  It goes on and on.

[Rage Against the McKee]

Goodbye to the days of "petroleum gasoline".

I immediately thought of "Bring back leaded gasoline " but yeah I agree mostly.

My new favorite is more expensive "ozone-friendly gasoline" that has to be mixed for the summer months and is distributed in certain areas (KC is the closest for most of us).  Who says the president doesn't have a say in gas prices?  In 2006 when the EPA wanted to lower the ozone standard from 84 ppb to 60-70 ppb and settled on 75 ppb, that directly would increase our gas prices without anyone even realizing it.  Obama rejecting lowering the new standards last year probably saved another 10-20 cents per gallon of increased cost at the pump.  The ozone standard is up for review next year btw

If this "ozone-friendly gasoline" is actually ozone-friendly, then count me in.

"Ozone-friendly" just as much as "carbon credits" help the environment.  Just another rough ridin' line to make people feel better....   

Typical deal, "ozone-friendly gasoline" does help with strickly ground-level ozone, because it lowers the amount of VOCs emitted, but than we add more ethanol to the mixture, which emitts CO2, a greenhouse gas, during production, and then the EPA gets all pissy and regulates greenhouse gases (CO2), which in turn raises the cost of ethanol, which in turn raises the cost of gas two to three-fold.  All because of that one ozone standard that was lowered in 2006 that the president approved.  It goes on and on.

Blame Bush.

[kim carnes]

This is why I am against new drilling in the USA. Wait for all the other chumps to run out of oil, then open up alaska drilling and become chamillionaires. I think this stance may be why the survey told me i was in love with Jill Stein.

This is pretty much a foolproof plan.

[ednksu]

oh man

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

oh man

The dates must be off for that huge spike. Looks like it starts in 2008 when Bush opened up oil leases to ease the futures price. Obama yanked a bunch of leases after a ton of money was put into exploration.

[sonofdaxjones]

Just waiting on Pelosi to launch those new set of hearings due to the failed energy policies of the Obama administration.  I will admit that she's probably hampered by the minority status of her party in the house, but she's still got a bully pulpit.   Strangely, no cry to the majority by Pelosi to do such a thing.

[EMAWesome]

oh man

The dates must be off for that huge spike. Looks like it starts in 2008 when Bush opened up oil leases to ease the futures price. Obama yanked a bunch of leases after a ton of money was put into exploration.

Great job by Bush opening up those lands & reacting to falling domestic production. I mean, his reaction time was rough ridin' phenomanal, the guy is surely a world class ping-pong player with reaction time like that!

If he were a Left wing prez, & I were a crazy right wing guy, I'd say something with absolute certainty that is 100% false...like, "I heard on Rush Beckitty's show that he was just waiting for all of his elitist, Harvard educated cronies to buy up all them lands before he released them for oil production, and he's coming after your GUNS," but saying something like that would just be wrong. 

[EMAWican]

If you're going to talk oil production and point out that spike in 2008, you need to discuss the annual average domestic crude oil price as well (in $ / bbl).

2006   $58.30 
2007   $64.20 
2008   $91.48 
2009   $53.48 
2010   $71.21 
2011   $87.04   

That's why production spiked up-higher oil prices.  Abandoned wells/oil fields that were considered marginal for oil production for 10+ years previous were suddenly able to turn a profit.   You also had horizontal directional drilling (HDD) gain popularity in this timeframe that effected oil production as well.  Keep in mind 2008 was when Bush ended the ban on offshore drilling.  Nobody foresaw the recession in late 2008-09 coming either, so that's why prices plummeted in 2009.  Speculation was gaining wide-spread popularity.  The oil production boom in 2008 was the second coming of Christ to the devout oil big wigs. 

Suddenly, all of these oil companies had invested    amounts of money because oil was 120+ bucks per barrel and they were forced to up their production even more to pay the bills.


Obama was simply the placeholder when all of this was going on.    

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

Obama wasn't just a placeholder, he and the EPA have tried to stifle a production on federal and private land since he got in office using any means they can.

[Rage Against the McKee]

Obama wasn't just a placeholder, he and the EPA have tried to stifle a production on federal and private land since he got in office using any means they can.

Maybe he should try harder so production will continue to increase.

[Stupid Fitz]

Something needs to happen (cheaper gas or better alternative). Not sure how economy can fully recover when some people are making 6-7 bucks an hour and using a days pay a week to fill up.

PS- I'm not an economist guy, I just think about stuff that makes sense to me. 

[EMAWesome]

Obama wasn't just a placeholder, he and the EPA have tried to stifle a production on federal and private land since he got in office using any means they can.

Source?

[8manpick]

Something needs to happen (cheaper gas or better alternative). Not sure how economy can fully recover when some people are making 6-7 bucks an hour and using a days pay a week to fill up.

PS- I'm not an economist guy, I just think about stuff that makes sense to me. 

federal minimum wage is $7.25, fwiw

[SdK]

Something needs to happen (cheaper gas or better alternative). Not sure how economy can fully recover when some people are making 6-7 bucks an hour and using a days pay a week to fill up.

PS- I'm not an economist guy, I just think about stuff that makes sense to me. 

federal minimum wage is $7.25, fwiw

And you lose how much to tax....

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

Obama wasn't just a placeholder, he and the EPA have tried to stifle a production on federal and private land since he got in office using any means they can.

Source?

[p1k3]

Inflation

[sys]

Source?

esa, passed in 1973. sceloporus arenicolus proposed as a candidate species in '82, removed from candidacy in '85, proposed again in '94, candidate listing mechanism changed in '96 removing arenicolus from candidacy without a new review of status, proposed again in '01, '02 dept. of interior sued for not substantively justifying reasons not to list, court orders review of status, '04 dept of interior publishes review, stating that listing is justified, but is precluded by higher priority candidates, '10 proposed for listing as endangered, '12 not listed as part of a conservation agreement between dept of interior and and private and state interests.

obama plays a long game, fortunately he was able to defeat himself.