Separation of Church and State??

[p1k3]

Separation of church and state has come to mean something completely different than originally intended. It wasn't to take religion out of government, but to take government out of religion.

well then we should change that and get religion the eff out of government.

When everyone in government are atheists, the world will be an immoral shithole. We are on our way.

Yep, atheists are all immoral assholes.  Religion created morality.

Without fear of retribution and judgement, morals slowly deteriorate. I think people in general want to be good, but there is too much money to be had in government. These days, they all leave federal office much wealthier than when the went in.

Link?

:tappingfootguy:

as an atheist I don't believe I'm an immoral shithole. I have never committed a crime, and don't plan on committing any crimes. But how long can I remain this way with out fearing retribution or judgement  ?


 

[Rage Against the McKee]

I have never committed a crime.

Something tells me this is a lie.

[CNS]

how does everyone feel about the separation of mosque and state? do mosques have a role in government? should they be tax havens?

Shouldn't have role in govt.  Should have same rights as the baptist church at the edge of my neighborhood that keeps sending guys to my door asking me if I would attend their church and make me lie and tell them I am a Methodist just so they will take no for an answer and not try to further press me into attending their services because upon hearing my lie they then quickly say god bless and leave.

[bubbles4ksu]

Without fear of retribution and judgement, morals slowly deteriorate. I think people in general want to be good, but there is too much money to be had in government. These days, they all leave federal office much wealthier than when the went in.

And many of them get elected because of their religious belief (or show of belief).

the religious should support separation, governmental promotion of religion "tends also to corrupt the principles of that very religion it is meant to encourage, by bribing, with a monopoly of worldly honours and emoluments, those who will externally profess and conform to it."

those words from jefferson's virginia statute for religious freedom disagree with your moral deterioration contention...

http://candst.tripod.com/tnppage/statute.htm

[Dugout DickStone]

So Ging just busted into this temple and started throwing out money changers....or something.

[Mr Bread]

Separation of church and state has come to mean something completely different than originally intended. It wasn't to take religion out of government, but to take government out of religion.

well then we should change that and get religion the eff out of government.

When everyone in government are atheists, the world will be an immoral shithole. We are on our way.

Yep, atheists are all immoral assholes.  Religion created morality.

You're looking at it from the wrong side.  Religious people are never bad people is the take home.  Mutually exclusive.  They don't molest kids or start unjustified wars or torture folks and such.  The world is whatever the opposite of an immoral shithole is when they're running the show.  A righteous cake dome?

[p1k3]

I have never committed a crime.

Something tells me this is a lie.

not a real crime. I think you get my point.

Unless, my moral ineptitude led me to break a few minor minor laws a couple times 

[Rage Against the McKee]

I have never committed a crime.

Something tells me this is a lie.

not a real crime. I think you get my point.

Unless, my moral ineptitude led me to break a few minor minor laws a couple times 

Crime doesn't pay, pike.

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

Separation of church and state has come to mean something completely different than originally intended. It wasn't to take religion out of government, but to take government out of religion.

well then we should change that and get religion the eff out of government.

When everyone in government are atheists, the world will be an immoral shithole. We are on our way.

Yep, atheists are all immoral assholes.  Religion created morality.

Without fear of retribution and judgement, morals slowly deteriorate. I think people in general want to be good, but there is too much money to be had in government. These days, they all leave federal office much wealthier than when the went in.

Link?

:tappingfootguy:

as an atheist I don't believe I'm an immoral shithole. I have never committed a crime, and don't plan on committing any crimes. But how long can I remain this way with out fearing retribution or judgement  ?


 

I don't believe you will always be an atheist. Also, I said the world will become a shithole, not everyone in it.

[slobber]

Separation of church and state has come to mean something completely different than originally intended. It wasn't to take religion out of government, but to take government out of religion.

well then we should change that and get religion the eff out of government.

When everyone in government are atheists, the world will be an immoral shithole. We are on our way.

Yep, atheists are all immoral assholes.  Religion created morality.

You're looking at it from the wrong side.  Religious people are never bad people is the take home.  Mutually exclusive.  They don't molest kids or start unjustified wars or torture folks and such.  The world is whatever the opposite of an immoral shithole is when they're running the show.  A righteous cake dome?

Yeah, I am pretty sure that is the way to look at it. 

[bubbles4ksu]

Also, I said the world will become a shithole, not everyone in it.

what kind of shithole do you envision an america without religion becoming? i think a shithole would be some sort of violence centered society. europe has grown apart(up) from religion and now they don't have 30 year long wars and quite as much genocide. to me, that is the world becoming a whole lot less shitty.

[nicname]

how does everyone feel about the separation of mosque and state? do mosques have a role in government? should they be tax havens?

They are.

[8manpick]

God isn't real, he was invented as a crutch for humans uncomfortable with their own mortality. That said, people should vote according to their beliefs, and the government shouldn't legislate to promote any religion over another.

Sent from my GT-S5830M using Tapatalk 2

[8manpick]

Also, I said the world will become a shithole, not everyone in it.

what kind of shithole do you envision an america without religion becoming? i think a shithole would be some sort of violence centered society. europe has grown apart(up) from religion and now they don't have 30 year long wars and quite as much genocide. to me, that is the world becoming a whole lot less shitty.

Preach brother

Sent from my GT-S5830M using Tapatalk 2

[CNS]

did you guys see this in the link I posted earlier:

Rewriting Texas Textbooks

Nowhere is that more visible than in the Texas textbook controversy. In 2010, the Texas Board of Education voted to rewrite the history textbooks to make them more conservative and Christian-friendly. One of the advisers was David Barton.

Barton later said on the cable talk show Chapter and Verse that it would take another 16 or 18 years before kids go through the entire curriculum, "then another 10 years after that before those kids get elected to office and start doing things. So we're talking 30 years from now. But, it's in the pipe coming down."

Asked about this 30-year plan, Barton says of course he wants to shape future leaders, any educator does. But he says he doesn't see himself as a particularly influential person.

"I'm going to be an active citizen and be involved and do everything I can to help move these principles forward," he says.

I mean, holy crap.  Can you imagine if any religion other than Christianity did this in any of our states?  There would be a civil war and a bunch of country songs written.  What is the best is that many conservatives complain about how liberal the schools are and how they are indoctrinating kids against God and toward socialism.  Pfft.

[nicname]

To say there would be morality without religion is pretty absurd in my opinion.  That isn't to argue that there is or isn't a god(s).  It is only to argue that religion itself is/was necessary for the advancement of human kind and of its moral disposition.

Without religions of all kinds, which for the most part have very similar beliefs on a majority of right and wrong topics, these frameworks of right and wrong never would have become widespread.  Of course this came at a price as human nature, pride, etc. would eventually lead to war, etc. when two groups of people would eventually encounter each other.  That isn't to say that religion is to blame for these wars (though in some cases it certainly was/ is a driving force). Human beings and animals alike have had different groups warring with each other since the beginning of time.

I'm also not arguing here that there won't come a time when (and maybe it has already arrived) human beings "outgrow" religion.  When we as a species no longer need religion to remain moral.

[p1k3]

Separation of church and state has come to mean something completely different than originally intended. It wasn't to take religion out of government, but to take government out of religion.

well then we should change that and get religion the eff out of government.

When everyone in government are atheists, the world will be an immoral shithole. We are on our way.

Yep, atheists are all immoral assholes.  Religion created morality.

Without fear of retribution and judgement, morals slowly deteriorate. I think people in general want to be good, but there is too much money to be had in government. These days, they all leave federal office much wealthier than when the went in.

Link?

:tappingfootguy:

as an atheist I don't believe I'm an immoral shithole. I have never committed a crime, and don't plan on committing any crimes. But how long can I remain this way with out fearing retribution or judgement  ?


 

I don't believe you will always be an atheist. Also, I said the world will become a shithole, not everyone in it.

I've only been an atheist for a couple years. Even before then I wasn't very religious, at all. My parents didn't indoctrinate me well enough I guess. But I'm curious as to when I'll see the light again?

[puniraptor]

To say there would be morality without religion is pretty absurd in my opinion.  That isn't to argue that there is or isn't a god(s).  It is only to argue that religion itself is/was necessary for the advancement of human kind and of its moral disposition.

Without religions of all kinds, which for the most part have very similar beliefs on a majority of right and wrong topics, these frameworks of right and wrong never would have become widespread.  Of course this came at a price as human nature, pride, etc. would eventually lead to war, etc. when two groups of people would eventually encounter each other.  That isn't to say that religion is to blame for these wars (though in some cases it certainly was/ is a driving force). Human beings and animals alike have had different groups warring with each other since the beginning of time.

I'm also not arguing here that there won't come a time when (and maybe it has already arrived) human beings "outgrow" religion.  When we as a species no longer need religion to remain moral.

I don't know about this. People seem to have a pretty solid sense of right and wrong before religion comes along. People feel icky about murdering until they are sanctioned by their gods to do so.

Even in the bible, before God told anyone how to party, Abraham felt pretty icky having to murder his son but was about to go through with it anyway because god said he had to. (close call, lol god!)

[bubbles4ksu]

To say there would be morality without religion is pretty absurd in my opinion.  That isn't to argue that there is or isn't a god(s).  It is only to argue that religion itself is/was necessary for the advancement of human kind and of its moral disposition.

Without religions of all kinds, which for the most part have very similar beliefs on a majority of right and wrong topics, these frameworks of right and wrong never would have become widespread.  Of course this came at a price as human nature, pride, etc. would eventually lead to war, etc. when two groups of people would eventually encounter each other.  That isn't to say that religion is to blame for these wars (though in some cases it certainly was/ is a driving force). Human beings and animals alike have had different groups warring with each other since the beginning of time.

I'm also not arguing here that there won't come a time when (and maybe it has already arrived) human beings "outgrow" religion.  When we as a species no longer need religion to remain moral.

Early man lived in small groups. If you boned your neighbor's wife, he killed you. If you stole your neighbor's flint blade, he killed you. If you could relieve someone's suffering, they aided you in return. It has been ingrained by evolution to not be an bad person. Religion shaped morality and made it black and white, but it didn't invent it.

And religion is to blame for the overwhelming majority of history's wars. I mean, would there have been public support for our current wars without 19 religious fundamentalists destroying the WTC?

[Rage Against the McKee]

To say there would be morality without religion is pretty absurd in my opinion.  That isn't to argue that there is or isn't a god(s).  It is only to argue that religion itself is/was necessary for the advancement of human kind and of its moral disposition.

Without religions of all kinds, which for the most part have very similar beliefs on a majority of right and wrong topics, these frameworks of right and wrong never would have become widespread.  Of course this came at a price as human nature, pride, etc. would eventually lead to war, etc. when two groups of people would eventually encounter each other.  That isn't to say that religion is to blame for these wars (though in some cases it certainly was/ is a driving force). Human beings and animals alike have had different groups warring with each other since the beginning of time.

I'm also not arguing here that there won't come a time when (and maybe it has already arrived) human beings "outgrow" religion.  When we as a species no longer need religion to remain moral.

Early man lived in small groups. If you boned your neighbor's wife, he killed you. If you stole your neighbor's flint blade, he killed you. If you could relieve someone's suffering, they aided you in return. It has been ingrained by evolution to not be an bad person. Religion shaped morality and made it black and white, but it didn't invent it.

And religion is to blame for the overwhelming majority of history's wars. I mean, would there have been public support for our current wars without 19 religious fundamentalists destroying the WTC?

I think it's unfair to say that religion is to blame for even a slight majority of history's wars. Greed is to blame for all of them, and religion is just used as a vehicle to motivate the masses. Without religion, a different, less convenient vehicle would be found.

[CNS]

To say there would be morality without religion is pretty absurd in my opinion.  That isn't to argue that there is or isn't a god(s).  It is only to argue that religion itself is/was necessary for the advancement of human kind and of its moral disposition.

Without religions of all kinds, which for the most part have very similar beliefs on a majority of right and wrong topics, these frameworks of right and wrong never would have become widespread.  Of course this came at a price as human nature, pride, etc. would eventually lead to war, etc. when two groups of people would eventually encounter each other.  That isn't to say that religion is to blame for these wars (though in some cases it certainly was/ is a driving force). Human beings and animals alike have had different groups warring with each other since the beginning of time.

I'm also not arguing here that there won't come a time when (and maybe it has already arrived) human beings "outgrow" religion.  When we as a species no longer need religion to remain moral.

Early man lived in small groups. If you boned your neighbor's wife, he killed you. If you stole your neighbor's flint blade, he killed you. If you could relieve someone's suffering, they aided you in return. It has been ingrained by evolution to not be an bad person. Religion shaped morality and made it black and white, but it didn't invent it.

And religion is to blame for the overwhelming majority of history's wars. I mean, would there have been public support for our current wars without 19 religious fundamentalists destroying the WTC?

I think it's unfair to say that religion is to blame for even a slight majority of history's wars. Greed is to blame for all of them, and religion is just used as a vehicle to motivate the masses. Without religion, a different, less convenient vehicle would be found.

One as effective?  I doubt it.

[bubbles4ksu]

To say there would be morality without religion is pretty absurd in my opinion.  That isn't to argue that there is or isn't a god(s).  It is only to argue that religion itself is/was necessary for the advancement of human kind and of its moral disposition.

Without religions of all kinds, which for the most part have very similar beliefs on a majority of right and wrong topics, these frameworks of right and wrong never would have become widespread.  Of course this came at a price as human nature, pride, etc. would eventually lead to war, etc. when two groups of people would eventually encounter each other.  That isn't to say that religion is to blame for these wars (though in some cases it certainly was/ is a driving force). Human beings and animals alike have had different groups warring with each other since the beginning of time.

I'm also not arguing here that there won't come a time when (and maybe it has already arrived) human beings "outgrow" religion.  When we as a species no longer need religion to remain moral.

Early man lived in small groups. If you boned your neighbor's wife, he killed you. If you stole your neighbor's flint blade, he killed you. If you could relieve someone's suffering, they aided you in return. It has been ingrained by evolution to not be an bad person. Religion shaped morality and made it black and white, but it didn't invent it.

And religion is to blame for the overwhelming majority of history's wars. I mean, would there have been public support for our current wars without 19 religious fundamentalists destroying the WTC?

I think it's unfair to say that religion is to blame for even a slight majority of history's wars. Greed is to blame for all of them, and religion is just used as a vehicle to motivate the masses. Without religion, a different, less convenient vehicle would be found.

The purported reason for going to war is as blameworthy as the actual one.

Sorry for ruining your thread, dobber.

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

Separation of church and state has come to mean something completely different than originally intended. It wasn't to take religion out of government, but to take government out of religion.

well then we should change that and get religion the eff out of government.

When everyone in government are atheists, the world will be an immoral shithole. We are on our way.

Yep, atheists are all immoral assholes.  Religion created morality.

Without fear of retribution and judgement, morals slowly deteriorate. I think people in general want to be good, but there is too much money to be had in government. These days, they all leave federal office much wealthier than when the went in.

Link?

:tappingfootguy:

as an atheist I don't believe I'm an immoral shithole. I have never committed a crime, and don't plan on committing any crimes. But how long can I remain this way with out fearing retribution or judgement  ?


 

I don't believe you will always be an atheist. Also, I said the world will become a shithole, not everyone in it.

I've only been an atheist for a couple years. Even before then I wasn't very religious, at all. My parents didn't indoctrinate me well enough I guess. But I'm curious as to when I'll see the light again?

I think most people go through this stage. I did. I'm no zealot and don't go to church, but I do believe. Sometimes it takes a really trying time to realize there has to be more to life. And who knows, Jesus may have been an alien. That wild haired guy on Ancient Aliens is pretty convincing.

[Dugout DickStone]

Let's stick to the con-man who is trying to convince everyone that the founding father's were super into his God and his Jesus. 

[Rage Against the McKee]

To say there would be morality without religion is pretty absurd in my opinion.  That isn't to argue that there is or isn't a god(s).  It is only to argue that religion itself is/was necessary for the advancement of human kind and of its moral disposition.

Without religions of all kinds, which for the most part have very similar beliefs on a majority of right and wrong topics, these frameworks of right and wrong never would have become widespread.  Of course this came at a price as human nature, pride, etc. would eventually lead to war, etc. when two groups of people would eventually encounter each other.  That isn't to say that religion is to blame for these wars (though in some cases it certainly was/ is a driving force). Human beings and animals alike have had different groups warring with each other since the beginning of time.

I'm also not arguing here that there won't come a time when (and maybe it has already arrived) human beings "outgrow" religion.  When we as a species no longer need religion to remain moral.

Early man lived in small groups. If you boned your neighbor's wife, he killed you. If you stole your neighbor's flint blade, he killed you. If you could relieve someone's suffering, they aided you in return. It has been ingrained by evolution to not be an bad person. Religion shaped morality and made it black and white, but it didn't invent it.

And religion is to blame for the overwhelming majority of history's wars. I mean, would there have been public support for our current wars without 19 religious fundamentalists destroying the WTC?

I think it's unfair to say that religion is to blame for even a slight majority of history's wars. Greed is to blame for all of them, and religion is just used as a vehicle to motivate the masses. Without religion, a different, less convenient vehicle would be found.

One as effective?  I doubt it.

Absolutely. Race, nationality, etc. would all be equally effective. Mankind is very violent by nature.