Separation of Church and State??

[slobber]

I have not done any fact finding, but if this is true, it is a little confusing to me...
http://stg.do/Iwpc

[8manpick]

1782 when that Bible was printed was pre-Constitution, so I guess that statement has about as much validity as the Articles of Confederation.

[slobber]

1782 when that Bible was printed was pre-Constitution, so I guess that statement has about as much validity as the Articles of Confederation.

He never said it was after the Constitution, so which statement isn't valid? (I swear I am not trying to be contrary. I am just curious how you interpreted this.)

[Dugout DickStone]

1782 when that Bible was printed was pre-Constitution, so I guess that statement has about as much validity as the Articles of Confederation.

But they sometimes met in the Capitol building for church!  That means the government should be run on their religious ideals.  Totally without question. 

[Dugout DickStone]

1782 when that Bible was printed was pre-Constitution, so I guess that statement has about as much validity as the Articles of Confederation.

He never said it was after the Constitution, so which statement isn't valid? (I swear I am not trying to be contrary. I am just curious how you interpreted this.)

Because our government is created by the Constitution.  So crap done before it is governed by the Articles

[8manpick]

1782 when that Bible was printed was pre-Constitution, so I guess that statement has about as much validity as the Articles of Confederation.

He never said it was after the Constitution, so which statement isn't valid? (I swear I am not trying to be contrary. I am just curious how you interpreted this.)

What I was getting at is that no one should give a crap what the congress of 1782 said about the bible they printed and its role in government run schools.  They completely changed the form of government since then. 

Although, I also don't think anyone should give a crap about what the congress of 1793 said about bibles in schools either.

[slobber]

1782 when that Bible was printed was pre-Constitution, so I guess that statement has about as much validity as the Articles of Confederation.

But they sometimes met in the Capitol building for church!  That means the government should be run on their religious ideals.  Totally without question.

I don't know that the government should be run on their religious ideals. But maybe the Separation of Church and state wasn't about banning a prayer at commencement? (Again, I am trying to be completely serious and non-smart assy (I should stop being such a smart ass so I don't have to type this when I am being serious.))

[Dugout DickStone]

1782 when that Bible was printed was pre-Constitution, so I guess that statement has about as much validity as the Articles of Confederation.

But they sometimes met in the Capitol building for church!  That means the government should be run on their religious ideals.  Totally without question.

I don't know that the government should be run on their religious ideals. But maybe the Separation of Church and state wasn't about banning a prayer at commencement? (Again, I am trying to be completely serious and non-smart assy (I should stop being such a smart ass so I don't have to type this when I am being serious.))

Don't give a crap if some podunksville school want to sit around and pray that Johnny Junior College has a good graduation and that it rains.  Do give a crap that these people think our Government is founded on some judeo Christian belief system and they can cook up a bunch of paintings that tells everyone that the "Gov shall make no law to establish a religion" doesn't mean just that.

[slobber]

1782 when that Bible was printed was pre-Constitution, so I guess that statement has about as much validity as the Articles of Confederation.

He never said it was after the Constitution, so which statement isn't valid? (I swear I am not trying to be contrary. I am just curious how you interpreted this.)

What I was getting at is that no one should give a crap what the congress of 1782 said about the bible they printed and its role in government run schools.  They completely changed the form of government since then. 

Although, I also don't think anyone should give a crap about what the congress of 1793 said about bibles in schools either.

But I often see people that don't want bibles in schools saying things like, "When they wrote that, they didn't want anything related to the government interfering with religion, just like they didn't want religion interfering with the government." Yet, if what the guy claims in the video is true, they certainly had religious elements on going in the government. Were they going against what they intended to do in the Constitution?

[8manpick]

1782 when that Bible was printed was pre-Constitution, so I guess that statement has about as much validity as the Articles of Confederation.

But they sometimes met in the Capitol building for church!  That means the government should be run on their religious ideals.  Totally without question.

I don't know that the government should be run on their religious ideals. But maybe the Separation of Church and state wasn't about banning a prayer at commencement? (Again, I am trying to be completely serious and non-smart assy (I should stop being such a smart ass so I don't have to type this when I am being serious.))

I agree with that.  As an atheist I don't mind not having prayers at commencement though.  I managed to get through saying "under God" in the pledge of allegiance at school for years though.  I understand the arguments against having those sorts of things, but it just doesn't seem like a big deal to me.

[Dugout DickStone]

Another serious question, why do these people need to be led in some loud, public prayer?  Can't they bow their heads, say a prayer with some quiet dignity and move on?  No one is stopping that.  No one has ever stopped that.

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

Separation of church and state has come to mean something completely different than originally intended. It wasn't to take religion out of government, but to take government out of religion.

[CNS]

I have not done any fact finding, but if this is true, it is a little confusing to me...
http://stg.do/Iwpc

This was addressed on a radio program I heard Friday.  They completely destroyed this guy's claims in that vid.  They had a history proff form some religious private collage doing the destroying.

They guy said that Congress ok'ed the use of their staff clergy to proof the print and that was all.  They didn't commission it or anything.

The same proff when in on this guy hard on the stuff he is claiming about Jefferson too.

If the proff is to be believed, it sounds like this guy is just standing up and spouting off a bunch of made up crap and because many in his crowd want to believe it, it becomes reality.

Proff d00d was saying how he is basically re-writing history with a heavy hand on the edit button.

[Dugout DickStone]

I have not done any fact finding, but if this is true, it is a little confusing to me...
http://stg.do/Iwpc

This was addressed on a radio program I heard Friday.  They completely destroyed this guy's claims in that vid.  They had a history proff form some religious private collage doing the destroying.

They guy said that Congress ok'ed the use of their staff clergy to proof the print and that was all.  They didn't commission it or anything.

The same proff when in on this guy hard on the stuff he is claiming about Jefferson too.

If the proff is to be believed, it sounds like this guy is just standing up and spouting off a bunch of made up crap and because many in his crowd want to believe it, it becomes reality.

Proff d00d was saying how he is basically re-writing history with a heavy hand on the edit button.

If he had to heavily edit what flimsy evidence he did produce then he is kind of screwed.

[8manpick]

If the proff is to be believed, it sounds like this guy is just standing up and spouting off a bunch of made up crap and because many in his crowd want to believe it, it becomes reality.

Sounds like religion.

[Dugout DickStone]

If the proff is to be believed, it sounds like this guy is just standing up and spouting off a bunch of made up crap and because many in his crowd want to believe it, it becomes reality.

Sounds like religion.

 

[michigancat]

Separation of church and state has come to mean something completely different than originally intended. It wasn't to take religion out of government, but to take government out of religion.

well then we should change that and get religion the eff out of government.

[CNS]

What's amazing is it is obvs working.  I mean, the guy owns some construction company in TX but is being hired by all kinds of R's to consult with them and is sought after by politicians for his endorsement. 

There is a movement in our country toward this type of crap.

I saw a study on CNN a month ago that actually said less people are believing science, where it conflict with religion, now vs 10 yrs ago.  That is just insane to me.

[michigancat]

pffffffffffft

Publisher Thomas Nelson has withdrawn 'The Jefferson Lies" after a lengthy review found the author, David Barton, had included "historical details that were not adequately supported," said Brian Hampton, a senior vice president and publisher for Thomas Nelson.

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/08/10/bartons-jefferson-lies-book-yanked/

[CNS]

pffffffffffft

Publisher Thomas Nelson has withdrawn 'The Jefferson Lies" after a lengthy review found the author, David Barton, had included "historical details that were not adequately supported," said Brian Hampton, a senior vice president and publisher for Thomas Nelson.

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/08/10/bartons-jefferson-lies-book-yanked/

 I love how, even there, they call them historical details, rather than lies, and they reference the fact that they weren't adequately supported, other than they were made up.

Also, the religious nuts that believe his crap are just going to say that this is another example of how our country is attacking religion and those with faith.  They will go on to say how this is a conspiracy by the left to discredit believers and God's role in our country. 

He will find another publisher and the crap will sell like hotcakes.

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

Separation of church and state has come to mean something completely different than originally intended. It wasn't to take religion out of government, but to take government out of religion.

well then we should change that and get religion the eff out of government.

When everyone in government are atheists, the world will be an immoral shithole. We are on our way.

[8manpick]

Separation of church and state has come to mean something completely different than originally intended. It wasn't to take religion out of government, but to take government out of religion.

well then we should change that and get religion the eff out of government.

When everyone in government are atheists, the world will be an immoral shithole. We are on our way.

Yep, atheists are all immoral assholes.  Religion created morality.

[MeatSauce]

hi guys, just wanted to pop in on this thread as I've had past run-in's with David Barton in TX.  The guy is a complete fraud.  He props his pseudo-history up on a broken leg of religion and statements that make people of faith afraid to question the claims for fear of being ostricized by their church/faith group/etc. His Wallbuilders, which is nothing more than religious propaganda, is on the same level as those morons that attempted to paint vaccine's as contra beneficial for young children.  His "facts" are hilariously destroyed time and time again, but like i said before those of faith are either ignorant or afraid to stand up to them.  He is not a scholar of histroy and his background in education is entrenched in the religous variety of education. I mean, good grief there's a reason he's a poster boy for the 700 Club. He is dangerous.  I hate him. 

Carry on.   

[slobber]

That is why this is the DOME... I was getting ready to post the following, but then I got called away for actual work stuff...

"Hey guys, thanks for the civility! Good discussion, I'll leave it there.  "

But by the time I came back to post it, things had deteriorated.

Edit: This post was not intended as a response to MeatSauce, but to the direction of the thread in general.

[Dugout DickStone]

I think this fraud getting called a fraud is not deteriorating