Tipping

[DQ12]

was very happy to receive the paltry tips that I did working as a server at Sonic.

[Emo EMAW]

Well tipping is a commission.

non contractual.  not paid by the employer.

Every dime paid to an employee is paid by the customer. 

[sys]

Every dime paid to an employee is paid by the customer.

and those customers also got their money from someone who got their money from someone who got there money from someone.  it's a Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) line of thought, entirely irrelevant to the matter at hand.


there are power dynamics involved in all relationships.  employees are beholden to their employers.  paying someone is an expression of power.  when everyone you encounter not only pays you, but pays you based upon nothing more than their whim, you are reduced to a position of servitude to the entire world.

[AbeFroman]

was very happy to receive the paltry tips that I did working as a server at Sonic.

Did you rollerskate? The skaters definitely deserve tips.

[Emo EMAW]

Every dime paid to an employee is paid by the customer.

and those customers also got their money from someone who got their money from someone who got there money from someone.  it's a Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) line of thought, entirely irrelevant to the matter at hand.


there are power dynamics involved in all relationships.  employees are beholden to their employers.  paying someone is an expression of power.  when everyone you encounter not only pays you, but pays you based upon nothing more than their whim, you are reduced to a position of servitude to the entire world.

Don't say "you." I would never sign up to be a slave to the public. 

[michigancat]

Commission is built into the sale price. That's a big difference from tipping.

[sys]

Don't say "you." I would never sign up to be a slave to the public.

 

[Mrs. Gooch]

was very happy to receive the paltry tips that I did working as a server at Sonic.

Did you rollerskate? The skaters definitely deserve tips.

The ones who kick your car because they are not stable on their roller skates don't deserve a tip.

[Canary]

Tipping is the #1 easiest way to find out if someone is a bad person or not.

tipping is an immoral system and everyone who participates in it helps to perpetuate that system, and hence is at least partially responsible.  however, i disagree that it is a good means of determining the quality of a person's character.  whether people participate or not is largely determined by the location of their birth.


it would be more accurate to observe that tipping slowly, but inherently, warps and perverts the character of those involved.  maybe that's what you were trying to say.

We apparently have very different views on morality.  Tipping has nothing to do with morals. 

Did you read the article?

I did read the article.  But we don't live in those times. Standards and practices change.  When I eat at a restaurant, the server is "working" for me.  That's not a statement of judgment, it's the job of that person.  My rewarding them with a tip has to do with my satisfaction with his work for me.  The management pays their general fee. 
When someone delivers furniture to my house, if they are careful with the items and do what I wish with them, I tip.  The guy who services my heating and air systems receives a tip from me if he is efficient and customer friendly. 
That's appreciation, not a statement on their chosen profession nor a judgment of their worth as a person. 

[michigancat]

Tipping is the #1 easiest way to find out if someone is a bad person or not.

tipping is an immoral system and everyone who participates in it helps to perpetuate that system, and hence is at least partially responsible.  however, i disagree that it is a good means of determining the quality of a person's character.  whether people participate or not is largely determined by the location of their birth.


it would be more accurate to observe that tipping slowly, but inherently, warps and perverts the character of those involved.  maybe that's what you were trying to say.

We apparently have very different views on morality.  Tipping has nothing to do with morals. 

Did you read the article?

I did read the article.  But we don't live in those times. Standards and practices change.  When I eat at a restaurant, the server is "working" for me.  That's not a statement of judgment, it's the job of that person.  My rewarding them with a tip has to do with my satisfaction with his work for me.  The management pays their general fee. 
When someone delivers furniture to my house, if they are careful with the items and do what I wish with them, I tip.  The guy who services my heating and air systems receives a tip from me if he is efficient and customer friendly. 
That's appreciation, not a statement on their chosen profession nor a judgment of their worth as a person. 

We definitely live in times where employers don't feel they have to pay their employees a decent wage and rely on the whims of an idiot public to supplement their income. That is happening now and is a moral issue.

[Canary]

Then the act of tipping is not the moral issue.  The act of underpaying employees is the moral issue. 

[michigancat]

Then the act of tipping is not the moral issue.  The act of underpaying employees is the moral issue. 

they are one and the same

[star seed 7]

Tipping is the #1 easiest way to find out if someone is a bad person or not.

tipping is an immoral system and everyone who participates in it helps to perpetuate that system, and hence is at least partially responsible.  however, i disagree that it is a good means of determining the quality of a person's character.  whether people participate or not is largely determined by the location of their birth.


it would be more accurate to observe that tipping slowly, but inherently, warps and perverts the character of those involved.  maybe that's what you were trying to say.

We apparently have very different views on morality.  Tipping has nothing to do with morals. 

Did you read the article?

I did read the article.  But we don't live in those times. Standards and practices change.  When I eat at a restaurant, the server is "working" for me.  That's not a statement of judgment, it's the job of that person.  My rewarding them with a tip has to do with my satisfaction with his work for me.  The management pays their general fee. 
When someone delivers furniture to my house, if they are careful with the items and do what I wish with them, I tip.  The guy who services my heating and air systems receives a tip from me if he is efficient and customer friendly. 
That's appreciation, not a statement on their chosen profession nor a judgment of their worth as a person.

Have you ever tipped your dentist?

[sys]

Then the act of tipping is not the moral issue.  The act of underpaying employees is the moral issue.

disagree completely.  with both statements.

[sys]

Then the act of tipping is not the moral issue.  The act of underpaying employees is the moral issue. 

they are one and the same

they are completely separate issues.

[Mrs. Gooch]

Then the act of tipping is not the moral issue.  The act of underpaying employees is the moral issue. 

they are one and the same

Well you can't just stop tipping because then the employee is the one who is negatively affected. So what is the solution?

[sys]

Well you can't just stop tipping because then the employee is the one who is negatively affected. So what is the solution?

have actually thought about this.  the most moral response to tipping is probably to refuse to tip.  much like the way to oust currie is to refuse to attend games.  unfortunately, few people are strong-willed enough to pursue this solution.  i wish i was.

[chum1]

Wait. What's the harm in tipping? Warps and perverts the character of those involved? Reduces to a position of servitude to the entire world? GMAFB with that bullshit.

When you flout tipping conventions, you affect individuals who are at least in part counting on having tip money in order to meet their basic needs. The harm is direct and quantifiable.

Other things being equal, the tipper is a better person than the non-tipper.

[Cartierfor3]

i'm still gonna tip

[Fedor]

Well you can't just stop tipping because then the employee is the one who is negatively affected. So what is the solution?

have actually thought about this.  the most moral response to tipping is probably to refuse to tip.  much like the way to oust currie is to refuse to attend games.  unfortunately, few people are strong-willed enough to pursue this solution.  i wish i was.

I tip the same percentage no matter what service I receive.  My conscience is clear.

[michigancat]

Well you can't just stop tipping because then the employee is the one who is negatively affected. So what is the solution?

have actually thought about this.  the most moral response to tipping is probably to refuse to tip.  much like the way to oust currie is to refuse to attend games.  unfortunately, few people are strong-willed enough to pursue this solution.  i wish i was.

I tip the same percentage no matter what service I receive.  My conscience is clear.

what percentage of your bill do you tip a bellhop or guy at a hotel that hails you a cab or an airport shuttle driver that helps with your bags?

[sys]

Wait. What's the harm in tipping? Warps and perverts the character of those involved? Reduces to a position of servitude to the entire world? GMAFB with that bullshit.

When you flout tipping conventions, you affect individuals who are at least in part counting on having tip money in order to meet their basic needs. The harm is direct and quantifiable.

Other things being equal, the tipper is a better person than the non-tipper.

pervert.

[Emo EMAW]

If people knowingly and willingly take jobs in these professions then morality is out the window. 

[Fedor]

Well you can't just stop tipping because then the employee is the one who is negatively affected. So what is the solution?

have actually thought about this.  the most moral response to tipping is probably to refuse to tip.  much like the way to oust currie is to refuse to attend games.  unfortunately, few people are strong-willed enough to pursue this solution.  i wish i was.

I tip the same percentage no matter what service I receive at a restaurant.  My conscience is clear.

what percentage of your bill do you tip a bellhop or guy at a hotel that hails you a cab or an airport shuttle driver that helps with your bags?

flat fee

[ChiComCat]

Having overseen a bellstaff at a resort, one thing that drove me nuts was people accepting an optional service and not tipping for it.  We did bell service and free optional valet.  If you don't want to tip, park yourself and get your own bags.  If you would rather have help, tip.  Granted, we paid our staff well above minimum wage too.  It was amazing how well tips motivated what turned out to be the best employees.  Usually if I was training someone, I could pull in an average of $10 a guest.