UNC/Duke

[MakeItRain]

roy's strategy makes sense when you think about it, i think zellar just screwed up and played it wrong.  rivers has nba range and isn't afraid to launch it from well beyond the college 3-pt line. roy anticipated the ball screen and told the taller zellar to switch, forcing rivers into a deeper shot.  zellar made the switch as he would against a normal shooter and didn't press up into rivers, instead giving up the shot rivers had already shown he could make several times that night.  good strategy on roy, poor execution on zellar.

imo.  maybe we're saying the same thing.

Yeah, pretty much. If you switch you tell Zeller to play outside the arc, and obviously he didn't. If Zeller gets beat, the worst that likely could happen is a tie with a 2 point jumper.

Our defense at the end of WVU was much worse IMO because a 2 couldn't have tied it.

I'm kind of pissed that everyone is overlooking the fact that JO actually played reasonably good defense on the play.  Jones hit a step back three when he was guarded by a 7 footer with his hands up.

[pissclams]

roy's strategy makes sense when you think about it, i think zellar just screwed up and played it wrong.  rivers has nba range and isn't afraid to launch it from well beyond the college 3-pt line. roy anticipated the ball screen and told the taller zellar to switch, forcing rivers into a deeper shot.  zellar made the switch as he would against a normal shooter and didn't press up into rivers, instead giving up the shot rivers had already shown he could make several times that night.  good strategy on roy, poor execution on zellar.

imo.  maybe we're saying the same thing.

Yeah, pretty much. If you switch you tell Zeller to play outside the arc, and obviously he didn't. If Zeller gets beat, the worst that likely could happen is a tie with a 2 point jumper.

Our defense at the end of WVU was much worse IMO because a 2 couldn't have tied it.

I'm kind of pissed that everyone is overlooking the fact that JO actually played reasonably good defense on the play.  Jones hit a step back three when he was guarded by a 7 footer with his hands up.

i'm kind of pissed that you aren't pissed that JO wasn't in Jones' grill, allowed the step back, and didn't force him inside the arc.

[kso_FAN]

roy's strategy makes sense when you think about it, i think zellar just screwed up and played it wrong.  rivers has nba range and isn't afraid to launch it from well beyond the college 3-pt line. roy anticipated the ball screen and told the taller zellar to switch, forcing rivers into a deeper shot.  zellar made the switch as he would against a normal shooter and didn't press up into rivers, instead giving up the shot rivers had already shown he could make several times that night.  good strategy on roy, poor execution on zellar.

imo.  maybe we're saying the same thing.

Yeah, pretty much. If you switch you tell Zeller to play outside the arc, and obviously he didn't. If Zeller gets beat, the worst that likely could happen is a tie with a 2 point jumper.

Our defense at the end of WVU was much worse IMO because a 2 couldn't have tied it.

I'm kind of pissed that everyone is overlooking the fact that JO actually played reasonably good defense on the play.  Jones hit a step back three when he was guarded by a 7 footer with his hands up.

I believe I made a similar point at the time, but I tend to agree with clams now, especially up 3. It was too early to foul, but I'm pretty sure I tell the defender to play so close that the only option is to drive by you and kick it, or attempt a two. Granted, that's something that's probably hard for a 7 footer to do. He was trying to play tight defense, he just didn't have the footspeed to handle it. I'm sure Frank would've chosen a different strategy in hindsight.

One thing I might have done is gone with 4 defenders spread around the arc basically in zone with one guy in the lane to protect the rim and at least force any 2 point attempts in there to be difficult plus get in rebounding position. In fact, I used this a couple weeks ago in one of my own games and it worked to perfection on a final possession with a 3 point lead.

[MakeItRain]

roy's strategy makes sense when you think about it, i think zellar just screwed up and played it wrong.  rivers has nba range and isn't afraid to launch it from well beyond the college 3-pt line. roy anticipated the ball screen and told the taller zellar to switch, forcing rivers into a deeper shot.  zellar made the switch as he would against a normal shooter and didn't press up into rivers, instead giving up the shot rivers had already shown he could make several times that night.  good strategy on roy, poor execution on zellar.

imo.  maybe we're saying the same thing.

Yeah, pretty much. If you switch you tell Zeller to play outside the arc, and obviously he didn't. If Zeller gets beat, the worst that likely could happen is a tie with a 2 point jumper.

Our defense at the end of WVU was much worse IMO because a 2 couldn't have tied it.

I'm kind of pissed that everyone is overlooking the fact that JO actually played reasonably good defense on the play.  Jones hit a step back three when he was guarded by a 7 footer with his hands up.

I believe I made a similar point at the time, but I tend to agree with clams now, especially up 3. It was too early to foul, but I'm pretty sure I tell the defender to play so close that the only option is to drive by you and kick it, or attempt a two. Granted, that's something that's probably hard for a 7 footer to do. He was trying to play tight defense, he just didn't have the footspeed to handle it. I'm sure Frank would've chosen a different strategy in hindsight.

One thing I might have done is gone with 4 defenders spread around the arc basically in zone with one guy in the lane to protect the rim and at least force any 2 point attempts in there to be difficult plus get in rebounding position. In fact, I used this a couple weeks ago in one of my own games and it worked to perfection on a final possession with a 3 point lead.

[catzacker]

We could all thank jamar for fouling out.  He would have been on Jones.  This is all on frank and JO.  WVU called a 20 second timeout right before this play.   so it wasn’t like this was in the heat of the moment in transition.  Frank had plenty of time to explain to JO and anyone that will listen, that we don’t give up a 3 and force everything to the rim.  Maybe frank did, maybe JO didn’t execute.  I dunno.  But JO should  have forced jones into his body, not taken a false step back.  

If you can’t trust your 7footer to do something correct, then don’t have him out there.  A 7 footer taken a full step backwards is worse than a 6’6 player guarding Jones tight. 

[kso_FAN]

We could all thank jamar for fouling out.  He would have been on Jones.  This is all on frank and JO.  WVU called a 20 second timeout right before this play.   so it wasn’t like this was in the heat of the moment in transition.  Frank had plenty of time to explain to JO and anyone that will listen, that we don’t give up a 3 and force everything to the rim.  Maybe frank did, maybe JO didn’t execute.  I dunno.  But JO should  have forced jones into his body, not taken a false step back. 

If you can’t trust your 7footer to do something correct, then don’t have him out there.  A 7 footer taken a full step backwards is worse than a 6’6 player guarding Jones tight. 

Agreed.

[OregonSmock]

KU and UNC are the twin sisters of sister schools.  We even lose to our rivals in the same fashion.  So elite. 


 

[MakeItRain]

We could all thank jamar for fouling out.  He would have been on Jones.  This is all on frank and JO.  WVU called a 20 second timeout right before this play.   so it wasn’t like this was in the heat of the moment in transition.  Frank had plenty of time to explain to JO and anyone that will listen, that we don’t give up a 3 and force everything to the rim.  Maybe frank did, maybe JO didn’t execute.  I dunno.  But JO should  have forced jones into his body, not taken a false step back. 

If you can’t trust your 7footer to do something correct, then don’t have him out there.  A 7 footer taken a full step backwards is worse than a 6’6 player guarding Jones tight. 

Agreed.

Basketball players are not robots.  Do you guys have any idea how many minor mistakes players make during the course of a game?  JO obviously made a mistake but you dudes are acting like he turned his back to Jones or something.  An All-American and player of the year candidate made a great play.  I've watched WVU all year, its absolutely ridiculous to think that Jones wouldn't have got that shot off if Jamar or anyone else was guarding him.

[pissclams]

even robots sometimes make mistakes

[catzacker]

if jamar was guarding jones, jamar probably does a better job at denying the pass to jones than jordan, imo.  prolly would have fouled him though.

[Dugout DickStone]

KU and UNC are the twin sisters of sister schools.  We even lose to our rivals in the same fashion.  So elite. 


 

Duke is so awesome.  Just incredible to have them for a sister school.

[Cartierfor3]

KU and UNC are the twin sisters of sister schools.  We even lose to our rivals in the same fashion.  So elite. 


 

Isn't it weird when there are twin sisters and one is the hot one and the other one is kinda meh?

[kso_FAN]

We could all thank jamar for fouling out.  He would have been on Jones.  This is all on frank and JO.  WVU called a 20 second timeout right before this play.   so it wasn€™t like this was in the heat of the moment in transition.  Frank had plenty of time to explain to JO and anyone that will listen, that we don€™t give up a 3 and force everything to the rim.  Maybe frank did, maybe JO didn€™t execute.  I dunno.  But JO should  have forced jones into his body, not taken a false step back. 

If you can€™t trust your 7footer to do something correct, then don€™t have him out there.  A 7 footer taken a full step backwards is worse than a 6€™6 player guarding Jones tight. 

Agreed.

Basketball players are not robots.  Do you guys have any idea how many minor mistakes players make during the course of a game?  JO obviously made a mistake but you dudes are acting like he turned his back to Jones or something.  An All-American and player of the year candidate made a great play.  I've watched WVU all year, its absolutely ridiculous to think that Jones wouldn't have got that shot off if Jamar or anyone else was guarding him.

FWIW, I wish Frank had put Rod on him.

[Dugout DickStone]

KU and UNC are the twin sisters of sister schools.  We even lose to our rivals in the same fashion.  So elite. 


 

Isn't it weird when there are twin sisters and one is the hot one and the other one is kinda meh?

But the meh one thinks she is as hot as the obviously hotter one?

[sonofdaxjones]

As you traverse between the East and West college on the super mega elite Duke campus sprawling against the velvet green backdrop of 7,200 acre Duke Forest.  One thing will quickly come to mind for most K-Staters and will maybe cause a bit of panic . . . you'll have to possibly re-affirm with a friendly passerby that you are indeed in Durham, NC and on the Duke campus and not in fact standing in the middle of The Kansas State University Campus.

I think we all can agree at this juncture, that we are indeed . . . so blessed.

[pissclams]

Duke --Brothers In Limestone-- K-State

[Fuktard]

roy's strategy makes sense when you think about it, i think zellar just screwed up and played it wrong.  rivers has nba range and isn't afraid to launch it from well beyond the college 3-pt line. roy anticipated the ball screen and told the taller zellar to switch, forcing rivers into a deeper shot.  zellar made the switch as he would against a normal shooter and didn't press up into rivers, instead giving up the shot rivers had already shown he could make several times that night.  good strategy on roy, poor execution on zellar.

imo.  maybe we're saying the same thing.

Yeah, pretty much. If you switch you tell Zeller to play outside the arc, and obviously he didn't. If Zeller gets beat, the worst that likely could happen is a tie with a 2 point jumper.

Our defense at the end of WVU was much worse IMO because a 2 couldn't have tied it.

I'm kind of pissed that everyone is overlooking the fact that JO actually played reasonably good defense on the play.  Jones hit a step back three when he was guarded by a 7 footer with his hands up.

I believe I made a similar point at the time, but I tend to agree with clams now, especially up 3. It was too early to foul, but I'm pretty sure I tell the defender to play so close that the only option is to drive by you and kick it, or attempt a two. Granted, that's something that's probably hard for a 7 footer to do. He was trying to play tight defense, he just didn't have the footspeed to handle it. I'm sure Frank would've chosen a different strategy in hindsight.

One thing I might have done is gone with 4 defenders spread around the arc basically in zone with one guy in the lane to protect the rim and at least force any 2 point attempts in there to be difficult plus get in rebounding position. In fact, I used this a couple weeks ago in one of my own games and it worked to perfection on a final possession with a 3 point lead.

I made this point immediately after the game and got blasted because apparently guys who are 6'11" can't play defense  away from the rim and are SUPPOSED to bite on jab steps. I wasn't swayed though and still believe JO cost us the game.  No reason we should have lost that game.

[oodfan]

Nah, his win probability charts are legit and for college basketball, unique.  Besides I'm humbled by my first post in this thread and because I broke my own rule and changed the channel with UNC up 10 with 2 minutes left.

Is this your rule?  http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/sports_nut/2008/03/the_lead_is_safe.single.html