Stillwater Esky Joe's and Bitter Buffy's

[kitten_mittons]

I think Will has a real problem against good on the ball D.  I am afraid the book on him is out and he is going to have to prove it wrong.

his role has changed. moving to the point has limited his offense.  mcorebs is getting a lot of the open shots that will got last year.

Yes, and right now he's missing a lot of good open shots. I have confidence that things will even out and he'll start hitting shots again. So far in his career his offensive rating is 114-115 and he's a 38% 3-pt shooter. I don't think that's his ceiling and his game adjusts he'll get better.

Also, it will help when Angel is full-time point.  He can create the shots from the point, and it will leave Sprads open to run around screens and whatnot.

[MakeItRain]

Jesus Christ, Will is fine.

lol, no he isn't.  I'll buy that he's going to be fine, but he's far from fine right now.

[MakeItRain]

Will should be the first guard off of the bench and barely that.  Jones is a better scoring option but he can't guard anyone and still gets lost on offense.

no, ar-t, spradling, mcgruder.  spradling would be better at the 2.  better than irving.

That's where he's been the last two games and he's been progressively worse. 

I am equating your reaction to Will's struggles to my reaction to the losses to BU and OU. JMHO.

Maybe not quite the same, but I will agree that much of my reaction to BU/OU was over the top and unnecessary.

Just sayin.

What's my reaction?  I'm simply pointing out that Will has been brutal since conference play has began, the numbers don't lie; raw stats, advanced stats, eye test, its all That turnover up top and then the subsequent foul on the dunk during OSUs late run was as bad of a play I've ever seen and that's supposed to be from Mr. Intangibles.  I really don't understand why everyone is just willing to give him a pass when he's a starter who has been awful for a 6 game stretch.  He's been the worst contributor on the team since conference play started yet seems to be immune from Frankisms and a consistent level of criticism from GoEMAWers.

The situation seems inconsistent bordering on bizarre to me.

[pissclams]

IT'S BECAUSE HE'S WHITE

[kougar24]

And Frank called out McGruder after the UNLV game last year. Basically called him a pussy for leaving the game when he lost a tooth in a way only Frank can.

Totally forgot about that, thanks. That was hilarious.

[kso_FAN]

What's my reaction?  I'm simply pointing out that Will has been brutal since conference play has began, the numbers don't lie; raw stats, advanced stats, eye test, its all That turnover up top and then the subsequent foul on the dunk during OSUs late run was as bad of a play I've ever seen and that's supposed to be from Mr. Intangibles.  I really don't understand why everyone is just willing to give him a pass when he's a starter who has been awful for a 6 game stretch.  He's been the worst contributor on the team since conference play started yet seems to be immune from Frankisms and a consistent level of criticism from GoEMAWers.

The situation seems inconsistent bordering on bizarre to me.

You said this:

My problem with him before was that he didn't make things happen, he was very close to a non-descript entity.  He's crossed over to hurting the team, he is not doing the things he did did well before and he is making losing plays.

I agree that Will has not played well, but I think you are going to far in saying he has crossed over to hurting (overall)( his team. I won't disagree that he has made his fair share of mistakes and that OSU (in many ways) was his worst game, but I still think most of the time he has still be steady; he just isn't hitting shots. I'm not willing to give him a free pass and I was disappointed in how he played and has played in Big 12 play, but I don't think he has played as bad as you are making it out to be. And I think he'll work through it and have a good Big 12 season, much better than he has shown so far. I think he's shown enough in his career to earn Frank's (and ours) patience.

[bakerman]

How much of this is because people are expecting Will to be more than he should be. In my opinion, he shouldn't be anything more than a guy who plays around the 3 point line waiting on kick outs from a penetrating guard. His defense is a plus, but I don't think anyone should be expecting him to ever be able to create his own shot.

That said, he isn't hitting his shots consistently enough to be considered that guy, at this point.

[nicname]

What is Will's Orating for conf games only?  I have it at 102.6, but I think my calculations might be off.  If that is correct even though he has been subpar for himself he hasn't been horrible offensively.  

[kougar24]

What is Will's Orating for conf games only?  I have it at 102.6, but I think my calculations might be off.  If that is correct even though he has been subpar for himself he hasn't been horrible offensively.  

It's 95.5.

Was 116.4 in P66 play last year.

[nicname]

What is Will's Orating for conf games only?  I have it at 102.6, but I think my calculations might be off.  If that is correct even though he has been subpar for himself he hasn't been horrible offensively.  

It's 95.5.

Was 116.4 in P66 play last year.

I figured I was wrong.  I just added each games rating then divided by 6 because I couldn't find it anywhere.  Figured the %of minutes or something might have thrown it off.

95.5 is pretty bad.

[kso_FAN]

What is Will's Orating for conf games only?  I have it at 102.6, but I think my calculations might be off.  If that is correct even though he has been subpar for himself he hasn't been horrible offensively.  

95.5, keyed by an eFG% of only 39.7.

I have confidence he will improve because he was solid last year in Big 12 play, granted in a different role. In conference games only he had an OffRating of 116.4 and eFG% of 50.6. That was at 54% minutes, this year he's at 79.1% minutes played.

[nicname]

What is Will's Orating for conf games only?  I have it at 102.6, but I think my calculations might be off.  If that is correct even though he has been subpar for himself he hasn't been horrible offensively.  

95.5, keyed by an eFG% of only 39.7.

I have confidence he will improve because he was solid last year in Big 12 play, granted in a different role. In conference games only he had an OffRating of 116.4 and eFG% of 50.6. That was at 54% minutes, this year he's at 79.1% minutes played.

What were his percentages of playing time playing PG vs. SG?  Obviously it is also more difficult being responsible for more of the scoring load, and playing more minutes.  I don't the effects of those things are what is driving this though.  I think he just isn't making shots.  Hell, he's only shooting 75% from the line.  His shooting touch will come around. 

[kso_FAN]

What is Will's Orating for conf games only?  I have it at 102.6, but I think my calculations might be off.  If that is correct even though he has been subpar for himself he hasn't been horrible offensively. 

95.5, keyed by an eFG% of only 39.7.

I have confidence he will improve because he was solid last year in Big 12 play, granted in a different role. In conference games only he had an OffRating of 116.4 and eFG% of 50.6. That was at 54% minutes, this year he's at 79.1% minutes played.

What were his percentages of playing time playing PG vs. SG?  Obviously it is also more difficult being responsible for more of the scoring load, and playing more minutes.  I don't the effects of those things are what is driving this though.  I think he just isn't making shots.  Hell, he's only shooting 75% from the line.  His shooting touch will come around. 

Agree. I was extremely ticked with the late TO, but I'm fine with lettting Will play through it. Plus, Frank took him out after that TO, but then made sure he got him back in at the next dead ball. I'm fine with that.

[kougar24]

What is Will's Orating for conf games only?  I have it at 102.6, but I think my calculations might be off.  If that is correct even though he has been subpar for himself he hasn't been horrible offensively. 

95.5, keyed by an eFG% of only 39.7.

I have confidence he will improve because he was solid last year in Big 12 play, granted in a different role. In conference games only he had an OffRating of 116.4 and eFG% of 50.6. That was at 54% minutes, this year he's at 79.1% minutes played.

lol u r so slow _F.

[kso_FAN]

What is Will's Orating for conf games only?  I have it at 102.6, but I think my calculations might be off.  If that is correct even though he has been subpar for himself he hasn't been horrible offensively. 

95.5, keyed by an eFG% of only 39.7.

I have confidence he will improve because he was solid last year in Big 12 play, granted in a different role. In conference games only he had an OffRating of 116.4 and eFG% of 50.6. That was at 54% minutes, this year he's at 79.1% minutes played.

lol u r so slow _F.

Hey, look at how many more numbers I gave.

Final thought on Will; its not like Frank treats him with kid gloves. He chews him plenty and takes him out after mistakes just like everyone else, but at the end of the day Frank still trusts him. And even with a bad stretch, its pretty clear he hasn't done enough to break that trust so much that Frank won't keep in the game when it matters most.

[pissclams]

the page will be turned when frank puts #teamangel on the line to shoot technical free throws instead of lil' doc spradling.

[sys]

95.5, keyed by an eFG% of only 39.7.

I have confidence he will improve because he was solid last year in Big 12 play, granted in a different role. In conference games only he had an OffRating of 116.4 and eFG% of 50.6. That was at 54% minutes, this year he's at 79.1% minutes played.

_fan s right, mir is wrong.  doc is fine other than not being able to shoot the cover off the ball, which he has shown he can do at other times.


his role will obviously decrease if mcgruder is going to continue to dominate the ball.  there's only one ball.

[pissclams]

his role will remain the same, bring the ball up and run the offense. 

[sys]

his role will remain the same, bring the ball up and run the offense. 

that is a decreased role compared to his role earlier in the year.

[pissclams]

his role will remain the same, bring the ball up and run the offense. 

that is a decreased role compared to his role earlier in the year.

hey thanks, but it's the same as it is now.  for your next magic trick could you please dissect if his role has changed since he was a high school sophomore?

[sys]

hey thanks, but it's the same as it is now.

false.  his percentage of shots taken has fallen since conference play opened, while mcgruder's has risen dramatically.  some of mcguder's additional shots are coming from elsewhere, but about half or more have come from spradling.

[pissclams]

hey thanks, but it's the same as it is now.

false.  his percentage of shots taken has fallen since conference play opened, while mcgruder's has risen dramatically.  some of mcguder's additional shots are coming from elsewhere, but about half or more have come from spradling.

ya thanks, i think we already covered this a few posts up.  thanks a lot mr.snakes

[kougar24]

It doesn't get any better than sys and clams back-n-forths.

[oodfan]

My problem with him before was that he didn't make things happen, he was very close to a non-descript entity.  He's crossed over to hurting the team, he is not doing the things he did did well before and he is making losing plays.

Frank basically called Will out for this during the non-con when he put his zeros on the board at half time for his stats and pointed it out during postgame media   

[kso_FAN]

My problem with him before was that he didn't make things happen, he was very close to a non-descript entity.  He's crossed over to hurting the team, he is not doing the things he did did well before and he is making losing plays.

Frank basically called Will out for this during the non-con when he put his zeros on the board at half time for his stats and pointed it out during postgame media   

Yeah, he did this at least twice I believe.