Author Topic: Stillwater Esky Joe's and Bitter Buffy's  (Read 12718 times)

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Offline Lefty

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Re: Stillwater Esky Joe's and Bitter Buffy's
« Reply #25 on: January 22, 2012, 09:21:47 PM »
MIR- what do you mean nothing's wrong with JO? If him being a TC isn't enough, he was committing terrible off ball fouls and having mental lapses in the middle of games.

And clearly Shane is a different player today then he was all of last year. I remember Shane as a hustling defensive artist, shutting down both Burks and Higgins at Colorado last year. Shane seems to be playing way too relaxed and without urgency. He's not responding to Frank's challenge and his minutes are dwindling.

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Offline Kat Kid

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Re: Stillwater Esky Joe's and Bitter Buffy's
« Reply #26 on: January 22, 2012, 09:50:06 PM »
I was waiting for this hoping you'd light Will up, horribly disappointed.  I don't know what his issue is or why Frank continues to shelter him.  I thought Frank is just like Will's dad and he could handle Frank?  He is the only player of consequence that has played for Frank for more than a year that didn't either get benched or roasted in a post game interview, why is that?  My problem with him before was that he didn't make things happen, he was very close to a non-descript entity.  He's crossed over to hurting the team, he is not doing the things he did did well before and he is making losing plays.  Yes, the defense on Paige was good, very good, but it was a team effort.  Additionally, Keaton Paige isn't the type of player that a high level guard should be patted on the back for being held to 17.  There isn't a sane person in the world that would take Paige over Spradling, yet we're going to wet ourselves over Paige scoring 17.

Sorry but Frank needs to do something, I'm not going to hit the panic button yet but something is clearly wrong with Will.

I am disappointed in Will.  I also think he is just struggling through a patch.  Look at his conference stats.  He is playing a ton of minutes, he is not turning the ball over more than our other ball handlers, he's scrapping through a tough shooting/offensive stretch and rebounding/playing decent D against players that are not going to out-quick him to the rim.  I mean I'm just not sure what you want.  I kind of agree with what you're saying about him not getting Frank'd, but then again, he played fewer than his normal minutes.  We've seen Shane Southwell play the point because he was sick of Will @OU.  I don't think he gives Frank a lot of ammo because he listens and he does not make a ton of mistakes.  Frank yells at him, the difference is he is usually in the game.  With Will I think Frank has run into a lack of alternatives that are less frustrating for him than Will.  I never got too in love with Will so Sprads is fine by me.  When I think about Clent Stewart I feel like we're getting the best of this.

I agree with what you are saying about Page, but then again Will would essentially be Page if our team sucked.  And someone has to score their points.  They chucked 3's all day to no avail, Sprads kept a slow white guy in front of him.  Fine.  He's going to struggle against the Taylors/Kabongos/Thomas' of the world, those are facts of life.  I just don't see the point in breaking him down for it.

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: Stillwater Esky Joe's and Bitter Buffy's
« Reply #27 on: January 22, 2012, 09:56:33 PM »
I was waiting for this hoping you'd light Will up, horribly disappointed.  I don't know what his issue is or why Frank continues to shelter him.  I thought Frank is just like Will's dad and he could handle Frank?  He is the only player of consequence that has played for Frank for more than a year that didn't either get benched or roasted in a post game interview, why is that?  My problem with him before was that he didn't make things happen, he was very close to a non-descript entity.  He's crossed over to hurting the team, he is not doing the things he did did well before and he is making losing plays.  Yes, the defense on Paige was good, very good, but it was a team effort.  Additionally, Keaton Paige isn't the type of player that a high level guard should be patted on the back for being held to 17.  There isn't a sane person in the world that would take Paige over Spradling, yet we're going to wet ourselves over Paige scoring 17.

Sorry but Frank needs to do something, I'm not going to hit the panic button yet but something is clearly wrong with Will.

I am disappointed in Will.  I also think he is just struggling through a patch.  Look at his conference stats.  He is playing a ton of minutes, he is not turning the ball over more than our other ball handlers, he's scrapping through a tough shooting/offensive stretch and rebounding/playing decent D against players that are not going to out-quick him to the rim.  I mean I'm just not sure what you want.  I kind of agree with what you're saying about him not getting Frank'd, but then again, he played fewer than his normal minutes.  We've seen Shane Southwell play the point because he was sick of Will @OU.  I don't think he gives Frank a lot of ammo because he listens and he does not make a ton of mistakes.  Frank yells at him, the difference is he is usually in the game.  With Will I think Frank has run into a lack of alternatives that are less frustrating for him than Will.  I never got too in love with Will so Sprads is fine by me.  When I think about Clent Stewart I feel like we're getting the best of this.

I agree with what you are saying about Page, but then again Will would essentially be Page if our team sucked.  And someone has to score their points.  They chucked 3's all day to no avail, Sprads kept a slow white guy in front of him.  Fine.  He's going to struggle against the Taylors/Kabongos/Thomas' of the world, those are facts of life.  I just don't see the point in breaking him down for it.

Its clear the two guys Frank trusts the most are McGruder and Sprads. He let McGrud's work through his offensive funk this year and its pretty clear that he's going to do the same with Will. Will's play lately has been frustrating at times, especially the late TO yesterday, but Frank will let him work through it and I'm good with that.

Offline kougar24

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Re: Stillwater Esky Joe's and Bitter Buffy's
« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2012, 10:00:37 PM »
Of course Frank will let Will work through it...he has no alternative. I love 'Tay, but...no, he's not a PG alternative.

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: Stillwater Esky Joe's and Bitter Buffy's
« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2012, 10:01:56 PM »
Of course Frank will let Will work through it...he has no alternative. I love 'Tay, but...no, he's not a PG alternative.

With Angel at PG Frank has more options.

Offline kougar24

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Re: Stillwater Esky Joe's and Bitter Buffy's
« Reply #30 on: January 22, 2012, 10:04:48 PM »
Of course Frank will let Will work through it...he has no alternative. I love 'Tay, but...no, he's not a PG alternative.

With Angel at PG Frank has more options.

Angel got 22 minutes in Stillwater, I think that's about his max for this season. Will still got 24.

Offline Lefty

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Re: Stillwater Esky Joe's and Bitter Buffy's
« Reply #31 on: January 22, 2012, 10:24:11 PM »
Of course Frank will let Will work through it...he has no alternative. I love 'Tay, but...no, he's not a PG alternative.

With Angel at PG Frank has more options.

Angel got 22 minutes in Stillwater, I think that's about his max for this season. Will still got 24.

His max is now directly correlated to his foul trouble. Angel has earned his time.
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Offline sys

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Re: Stillwater Esky Joe's and Bitter Buffy's
« Reply #32 on: January 22, 2012, 10:55:03 PM »
Sprads kept a slow white guy in front of him.

page isn't slow.  i mean, maybe he's slow for a 5'8" d1 bball player, i dunno, i haven't seen enough of them to be able to compare.  but if you compare him to normal-sized d1 pgs, then he isn't slow.
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Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Stillwater Esky Joe's and Bitter Buffy's
« Reply #33 on: January 22, 2012, 10:58:48 PM »
I was waiting for this hoping you'd light Will up, horribly disappointed.  I don't know what his issue is or why Frank continues to shelter him.  I thought Frank is just like Will's dad and he could handle Frank?  He is the only player of consequence that has played for Frank for more than a year that didn't either get benched or roasted in a post game interview, why is that?  My problem with him before was that he didn't make things happen, he was very close to a non-descript entity.  He's crossed over to hurting the team, he is not doing the things he did did well before and he is making losing plays.  Yes, the defense on Paige was good, very good, but it was a team effort.  Additionally, Keaton Paige isn't the type of player that a high level guard should be patted on the back for being held to 17.  There isn't a sane person in the world that would take Paige over Spradling, yet we're going to wet ourselves over Paige scoring 17.

Sorry but Frank needs to do something, I'm not going to hit the panic button yet but something is clearly wrong with Will.

I am disappointed in Will.  I also think he is just struggling through a patch.  Look at his conference stats.  He is playing a ton of minutes, he is not turning the ball over more than our other ball handlers, he's scrapping through a tough shooting/offensive stretch and rebounding/playing decent D against players that are not going to out-quick him to the rim.  I mean I'm just not sure what you want.  I kind of agree with what you're saying about him not getting Frank'd, but then again, he played fewer than his normal minutes.  We've seen Shane Southwell play the point because he was sick of Will @OU.  I don't think he gives Frank a lot of ammo because he listens and he does not make a ton of mistakes.  Frank yells at him, the difference is he is usually in the game.  With Will I think Frank has run into a lack of alternatives that are less frustrating for him than Will.  I never got too in love with Will so Sprads is fine by me.  When I think about Clent Stewart I feel like we're getting the best of this.

I agree with what you are saying about Page, but then again Will would essentially be Page if our team sucked.  And someone has to score their points.  They chucked 3's all day to no avail, Sprads kept a slow white guy in front of him.  Fine.  He's going to struggle against the Taylors/Kabongos/Thomas' of the world, those are facts of life.  I just don't see the point in breaking him down for it.

His minutes are down at times because he's been in foul trouble since conference play started.  His conference numbers are really really bad.

9.0 PPG, 15-49 from the field good for a robust 30.6%, 15-20 from the stripe but he had two games in which he played 33 & 32 minutes and didn't attempt a FT we lost both games, 9-29 from the 3 point line 31%, 16 turnovers only 18 assists, he has 21 fouls to put 21 fouls in perspective its one less than Jamar.

No spinning those numbers they are awful by any standard.  His assist-to-turnover ratio is horrid considering what he is asked to do.  It was fun to mock Clent but even as a sophomore he was a much better Will than Will.  I liked him better when he was just a ball mover not willing to do anything.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Stillwater Esky Joe's and Bitter Buffy's
« Reply #34 on: January 22, 2012, 11:14:15 PM »
Of course Frank will let Will work through it...he has no alternative. I love 'Tay, but...no, he's not a PG alternative.

With Angel at PG Frank has more options.

Angel got 22 minutes in Stillwater, I think that's about his max for this season. Will still got 24.

His max is now directly correlated to his foul trouble. Angel has earned his time.

Will should be the first guard off of the bench and barely that.  Jones is a better scoring option but he can't guard anyone and still gets lost on offense.

Offline sys

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Re: Stillwater Esky Joe's and Bitter Buffy's
« Reply #35 on: January 22, 2012, 11:22:03 PM »
Will should be the first guard off of the bench and barely that.  Jones is a better scoring option but he can't guard anyone and still gets lost on offense.

no, ar-t, spradling, mcgruder.  spradling would be better at the 2.  better than irving.
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Offline nicname

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Re: Stillwater Esky Joe's and Bitter Buffy's
« Reply #36 on: January 22, 2012, 11:23:16 PM »
yeah, I like spradling at the two.  really frees up his offense. 
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Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Stillwater Esky Joe's and Bitter Buffy's
« Reply #37 on: January 22, 2012, 11:32:48 PM »
Will should be the first guard off of the bench and barely that.  Jones is a better scoring option but he can't guard anyone and still gets lost on offense.

no, ar-t, spradling, mcgruder.  spradling would be better at the 2.  better than irving.

That's where he's been the last two games and he's been progressively worse. 

Offline sys

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Re: Stillwater Esky Joe's and Bitter Buffy's
« Reply #38 on: January 22, 2012, 11:48:25 PM »
That's where he's been the last two games and he's been progressively worse. 

some minutes, most of his minutes are still at the nominal point with ar-t on the bench.  spradling played 35 against ut, ar-t 15.  spradling 24, ar-t 22 @ osu.
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Offline michigancat

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Re: Stillwater Esky Joe's and Bitter Buffy's
« Reply #39 on: January 23, 2012, 12:49:46 AM »
Jesus Christ, Will is fine.

And Frank called out McGruder after the UNLV game last year. Basically called him a pussy for leaving the game when he lost a tooth in a way only Frank can.

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: Re: Stillwater Esky Joe's and Bitter Buffy's
« Reply #40 on: January 23, 2012, 06:35:46 AM »
I think you may want to look at the a/to numbers for the rest or our guards and then revisit why spradling is playing.  He is going to play his way out of the shooting or we're in troubs.  As for Clent, he was better as a soph than a Senior.  I'll wait unil at least March to compare season stats, but there is no way I'm taking Clent over Will.

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Re: Stillwater Esky Joe's and Bitter Buffy's
« Reply #41 on: January 23, 2012, 07:51:41 AM »
does jones suck on defense?  seemed to play better d than i thought he would. 


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Offline kso_FAN

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Re: Stillwater Esky Joe's and Bitter Buffy's
« Reply #42 on: January 23, 2012, 09:09:06 AM »
Will should be the first guard off of the bench and barely that.  Jones is a better scoring option but he can't guard anyone and still gets lost on offense.

no, ar-t, spradling, mcgruder.  spradling would be better at the 2.  better than irving.

That's where he's been the last two games and he's been progressively worse. 

I am equating your reaction to Will's struggles to my reaction to the losses to BU and OU. JMHO.

Maybe not quite the same, but I will agree that much of my reaction to BU/OU was over the top and unnecessary.

Just sayin.

Offline felix rex

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Re: Stillwater Esky Joe's and Bitter Buffy's
« Reply #43 on: January 23, 2012, 09:10:29 AM »
Will should be the first guard off of the bench and barely that.  Jones is a better scoring option but he can't guard anyone and still gets lost on offense.

no, ar-t, spradling, mcgruder.  spradling would be better at the 2.  better than irving.

That's where he's been the last two games and he's been progressively worse. 
I will agree that much of my reaction to BU/OU was over the top and unnecessary.

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Offline kso_FAN

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Re: Stillwater Esky Joe's and Bitter Buffy's
« Reply #44 on: January 23, 2012, 09:12:05 AM »
Will should be the first guard off of the bench and barely that.  Jones is a better scoring option but he can't guard anyone and still gets lost on offense.

no, ar-t, spradling, mcgruder.  spradling would be better at the 2.  better than irving.

That's where he's been the last two games and he's been progressively worse. 
I will agree that much of my reaction to BU/OU was over the top and unnecessary.

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Offline kso_FAN

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Re: Stillwater Esky Joe's and Bitter Buffy's
« Reply #45 on: January 23, 2012, 09:12:55 AM »
does jones suck on defense?  seemed to play better d than i thought he would. 

I think Jones is Frank's best JUCO recruit as far as buying in, not that means a lot.

Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: Stillwater Esky Joe's and Bitter Buffy's
« Reply #46 on: January 23, 2012, 09:20:46 AM »
I think Will has a real problem against good on the ball D.  I am afraid the book on him is out and he is going to have to prove it wrong.

Offline pissclams

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Re: Stillwater Esky Joe's and Bitter Buffy's
« Reply #47 on: January 23, 2012, 09:32:34 AM »
I think Will has a real problem against good on the ball D.  I am afraid the book on him is out and he is going to have to prove it wrong.

his role has changed. moving to the point has limited his offense.  mcorebs is getting a lot of the open shots that will got last year.


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Offline kso_FAN

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Re: Stillwater Esky Joe's and Bitter Buffy's
« Reply #48 on: January 23, 2012, 09:38:58 AM »
I think Will has a real problem against good on the ball D.  I am afraid the book on him is out and he is going to have to prove it wrong.

his role has changed. moving to the point has limited his offense.  mcorebs is getting a lot of the open shots that will got last year.

Yes, and right now he's missing a lot of good open shots. I have confidence that things will even out and he'll start hitting shots again. So far in his career his offensive rating is 114-115 and he's a 38% 3-pt shooter. I don't think that's his ceiling and his game adjusts he'll get better.

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Re: Stillwater Esky Joe's and Bitter Buffy's
« Reply #49 on: January 23, 2012, 10:03:02 AM »
i'm hoping #teamangel can carry more of the load at the 1 and allow will to play more 2, with mcorebs at the 3 and jamar/JO/Gipson/Diaz sharing minutes b/w the 4/5.

i think ultimately though will will always be limited offensively because his lack of quickness and handles.  i don't ever see him doing more than just knocking down a higher percentage of the shots that he's missing today.


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