Criticisms of Frank Thread (Official)

[michigancat]

we do worse against the best teams?!?!? 

Yeah. Funny how that works.

Still, I stand by my comments that there are things Frank can learn defensively, but he's still a young coach at this level. I still think overall he's really good, even after the past few weeks.

He's made plenty of defensive adjustments during games, also. Every coach can get better. I just think based on his track record defense should be at the bottom of list of complaints.

[kso_FAN]

I just think based on his track record defense should be at the bottom of list of complaints.

True. Very true.

[kso_FAN]

Heh.

I’m puzzled at the reaction to the closing moments of the Missouri/Texas game on Monday night, a game in which the Tigers won 67-66. For my taste, Missouri head coach Frank Haith is getting a little too much credit for the events of the final possession. For example, the reaction on twitter has almost universally praised Haith for throwing a zone defense at Texas after the Longhorns’ timeout with 27 seconds remaining. See also, this blurb from Andy Katz.

I suppose Haith deserves credit for throwing a zone at Texas out of the timeout prior to the game-deciding possession. But I’m really not sure. I mean, I have few reasons to make such a judgment, other than to say, “Missouri won, therefore Haith is brilliant!” However, unless Rick Barnes is lying, this move was anticipated. And besides, it’s not like it’s rare for a coach to change defenses out of a timeout late in the game.

Sure, the Longhorns’ offense was disrupted by the move, but then again, they ended up getting a pretty decent shot from Myck Kabongo, one on which he appeared to get fouled. Now, officials are not necessarily going to call fouls on the final possession using the same standard as the rest of the game, but I hope we can agree that Haith had no control over whether the whistle was blown is that situation. And I have a hard time heaping praise on a person based on an outcome that was out of the person’s control.

Had a foul been called and Texas gone on to win the game, I think it’s safe to say that few people would be praising Haith or calling for him to win coach of the year based on his final-possession strategy. In fact, I’m guessing they’d be talking about blowing a ten-point lead in the closing minutes and how Missouri is reeling, and perhaps that Haith has a less-than-stellar track record in close games during his career. That, too, would have been an overreaction. And just to be clear, the difference between these two extremes is an event that Haith had no influence on.

There’s no denying that Frank Haith has done a great job this season. There are few teams in the country better than Missouri right now, and I’d say that whether the Tigers had won or lost in Austin. Mizzou was primed to be very good, but there’s something to be said for not screwing that up as a new coach. Especially when the hire had little support among the fan base.  However, let’s not anoint Frank Haith as the basketball version of Bill Belichick. Perhaps his move at the end of game was brilliant, but the outcome of the game was also influenced by random events out of Haith’s control. Giving him credit for the switch to zone is fine, but praising him for the outcome of the game is a bit much.

[gatoveintisiete]

we do worse against the best teams?!?!? 

Yeah. Funny how that works.

Still, I stand by my comments that there are things Frank can learn defensively, but he's still a young coach at this level. I still think overall he's really good, even after the past few weeks.

He's made plenty of defensive adjustments during games, also. Every coach can get better. I just think based on his track record defense should be at the bottom of list of complaints.

I dissagree, the only thing Frank can do is try to figure out how to win the games he loses right?  OK then find the common denominator in the losses.  Granted we are what we are and he has to work within the possible, but if we are playing a team with 4 average joes and Michael Jordan you can't allow the other team to isolate Mj one on one all night, you already know what the outcome of that will be.  Last night, I would have mixed defenses from our standard man, to tiangle and two and others, to not let isu get in any rythym.  It almost appeared last night that Royce was getting winded from driving and dunking, so much that he passed up the ball sometimes to catch his breath, on those possesions they gave it to chowder or Allen to drive and draw fouls.  Iowa State is good but not great, we can consistently beat teams like that with some defensive tweaks.

[michigancat]

there isn't a common denominator to any of the losses. The closest is probably turnovers. And your strategy ideas for last night are terrible.

[gatoveintisiete]

there isn't a common denominator to any of the losses. The closest is probably turnovers. And your strategy ideas for last night are terrible.

Fan and I are agreed on the majority of this,  you don't have to be on the right side of history if you don't want to.

[sys]

there isn't a common denominator to any of the losses. The closest is probably turnovers.

it's definitely turnovers.

[michigancat]

there isn't a common denominator to any of the losses. The closest is probably turnovers.

it's definitely turnovers.

I'm talking about over his entire career. It's mostly turnovers this year, but I don't think that's the case in prior years. Too lazy to look, though.

[420seriouscat69]

I think sometimes he gets his eye sockets too big. Very unattractive.

[catzacker]

I’ll apologize if this complaint has already been filed, but why can Frank change/adjust offenses when it’s apparent that he’s not getting what he wants out of the one he’s running, but not change/adjust his defense when the same is apparent? 

[Cire]

he throws out a 3-2 and does some trapping but it sucks.

[kso_FAN]

I’ll apologize if this complaint has already been filed, but why can Frank change/adjust offenses when it’s apparent that he’s not getting what he wants out of the one he’s running, but not change/adjust his defense when the same is apparent?  

That's a fair question. I think most coaches have one or two aspects of their program that they consider who they are and what they are about, and based on Frank's career I would guess his are pressure man defense and rebounding. And when those things have been the consistent strengths of his program, its unlikely he's going to change and he's going to put his career on the line based on those things. The other things are up for change, and obviously "his" offense was the first thing he was willing to make a major overhaul with. I highly doubt his defense will ever change, no matter where he ends up, unless things start going really south with the program. The strength of this team (by far) is still defense, the biggest problem with this team is offense right now.

[michigancat]

Frank has adjusted his defense during games - the average fan should be able to notice changes in how they defend ball screens during games, but there have been other changes as well. That said, I don't think he'll ever stop pressuring the perimeter as much as he does, just like he didn't stop crashing the offensive glass when he changed his offense.

Complaining about Frank's defense and/or wanting him to change it significantly is just stupid.

[catzacker]

Frank has adjusted his defense during games - the average fan should be able to notice changes in how they defend ball screens during games, but there have been other changes as well. That said, I don't think he'll ever stop pressuring the perimeter as much as he does, just like he didn't stop crashing the offensive glass when he changed his offense.

Complaining about Frank's defense and/or wanting him to change it significantly is just stupid.

I'm not asking him to go to a 1-3-1 zone or make wholesale changes defensively.  I see that we change how we guard ball screens.  And it's clear that we have game plans on how we'll guard the perimeter (i.e. where help will come from).  But for the most part, regardless of what happens, we pressure the ball.  Like, regardless of fouls, regardless of whether our guards are getting abused...regardless of anything.  I mean, if we're willing to change our offense, we can't say to Sprads or Angel "hey, back up a few feet"?

[kso_FAN]

I mean, if we're willing to change our offense, we can't say to Sprads or Angel "hey, back up a few feet"?

We could, but I don't think we ever will.

[michigancat]

Frank has adjusted his defense during games - the average fan should be able to notice changes in how they defend ball screens during games, but there have been other changes as well. That said, I don't think he'll ever stop pressuring the perimeter as much as he does, just like he didn't stop crashing the offensive glass when he changed his offense.

Complaining about Frank's defense and/or wanting him to change it significantly is just stupid.

I'm not asking him to go to a 1-3-1 zone or make wholesale changes defensively.  I see that we change how we guard ball screens.  And it's clear that we have game plans on how we'll guard the perimeter (i.e. where help will come from).  But for the most part, regardless of what happens, we pressure the ball.  Like, regardless of fouls, regardless of whether our guards are getting abused...regardless of anything.  I mean, if we're willing to change our offense, we can't say to Sprads or Angel "hey, back up a few feet"?

If we get beat in transition a couple times should he just send no one to the offensive glass and settle for one shot per possession?

I can see Frank telling them to not pressure the ball and the result would be like when Syracuse played man-to-man against LeMoyne. I don't think it would be a good idea at all. Perimeter fouls or other mistakes due to "pressuring the ball" haven't been a significant problem, with Angel in conference play being the obvious exception.

[mcmwcat]

Frank has adjusted his defense during games - the average fan should be able to notice changes in how they defend ball screens during games, but there have been other changes as well. That said, I don't think he'll ever stop pressuring the perimeter as much as he does, just like he didn't stop crashing the offensive glass when he changed his offense.

Complaining about Frank's defense and/or wanting him to change it significantly is just stupid.

I'm not asking him to go to a 1-3-1 zone or make wholesale changes defensively.  I see that we change how we guard ball screens.  And it's clear that we have game plans on how we'll guard the perimeter (i.e. where help will come from).  But for the most part, regardless of what happens, we pressure the ball.  Like, regardless of fouls, regardless of whether our guards are getting abused...regardless of anything.  I mean, if we're willing to change our offense, we can't say to Sprads or Angel "hey, back up a few feet"?

can't remember when but he's done it.  i specifically remember him motioning tay to stay at a certain level and not pick up the dribbler until they reached a certain point (top of key).  i'm pretty sure that was at the end of a half or game  

[catzacker]

Frank has adjusted his defense during games - the average fan should be able to notice changes in how they defend ball screens during games, but there have been other changes as well. That said, I don't think he'll ever stop pressuring the perimeter as much as he does, just like he didn't stop crashing the offensive glass when he changed his offense.

Complaining about Frank's defense and/or wanting him to change it significantly is just stupid.

I'm not asking him to go to a 1-3-1 zone or make wholesale changes defensively.  I see that we change how we guard ball screens.  And it's clear that we have game plans on how we'll guard the perimeter (i.e. where help will come from).  But for the most part, regardless of what happens, we pressure the ball.  Like, regardless of fouls, regardless of whether our guards are getting abused...regardless of anything.  I mean, if we're willing to change our offense, we can't say to Sprads or Angel "hey, back up a few feet"?

If we get beat in transition a couple times should he just send no one to the offensive glass and settle for one shot per possession?

I can see Frank telling them to not pressure the ball and the result would be like when Syracuse played man-to-man against LeMoyne. I don't think it would be a good idea at all. Perimeter fouls or other mistakes due to "pressuring the ball" haven't been a significant problem, with Angel in conference play being the obvious exception.

I watched KU go to a triangle and 2 to stop Clemente and Pullen.  K-freaking-U, with infinitely more talent than we had and I don't believe they ever used that defense all year. 

[SdK]

My biggest criticism is that he is not John Calipari.

[michigancat]

I watched KU go to a triangle and 2 to stop Clemente and Pullen.  K-freaking-U, with infinitely more talent than we had and I don't believe they ever used that defense all year. 

Self has been teaching the triangle and two for a long-ass time.

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2001/mar/24/self_credits_williams/?print


Maybe Frank should be going zone more often?

[Underdog Wildcat]

"I am not going to offer Deangelo Harrison"

http://espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=320320305

I wouldn't have minded us taking a harder run at Todd Mayo either.

It happens, I guess.

[michigancat]

"I am not going to offer Deangelo Harrison"

http://espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=320320305

I wouldn't have minded us taking a harder run at Todd Mayo either.

It happens, I guess.

I mean Harrison said we were one of his leaders (along w/ aTm) in March. Then he blew up at Top of the Hill or something and it's like we didn't even try after that. It's absolutely infuriating without knowing how or why we quit trying. The fact that he went to St. John's and not some blue blood just pisses me off even more. Todd Mayo would have been nice, but so would Nick Russell.

[Underdog Wildcat]

It's very frustrating, it's like Frank will cut off his nose(supposed lack of fit, JYCness) just to spite his face (winning games, which believe it or not, can be aided by players with offensive abilities and mentalities).

[catzacker]

I watched KU go to a triangle and 2 to stop Clemente and Pullen.  K-freaking-U, with infinitely more talent than we had and I don't believe they ever used that defense all year. 

Self has been teaching the triangle and two for a long-ass time.

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2001/mar/24/self_credits_williams/?print


Maybe Frank should be going zone more often?

sure, but they didn't use it all year that year (08/09).  The point is that Bill wasn't afriad to use something, something that has been categorized as a junk defense, to stop a less talented team.  

And as for the zone, that, to me is an example of frank not being able to adjust.  Having Dom up top of a 3-2 is far more effective than having Rodney.  I dunno what the right answer is (probably why Jamar at the 3 was Frank’s dream? He’d be nice to have out there as a 3 w/ a combination of JO/Diaz/Gip at the 4/5.  Could put Jamar out top of the 3-2)  but when you don’t have the players to run something, you shouldn’t run it.  Or you should find a way around your weaknesses.  

[michigancat]

I watched KU go to a triangle and 2 to stop Clemente and Pullen.  K-freaking-U, with infinitely more talent than we had and I don't believe they ever used that defense all year. 

Self has been teaching the triangle and two for a long-ass time.

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2001/mar/24/self_credits_williams/?print


Maybe Frank should be going zone more often?

sure, but they didn't use it all year that year (08/09).  The point is that Bill wasn't afriad to use something, something that has been categorized as a junk defense, to stop a less talented team. 

I don't get your point. It's something he always teaches, he used ten years ago, he used it the year prior and the year after, and I would guess he used it at some other point that season but you just didn't realize it. It's just another tool, like Frank's half court traps or full court pressure or zone. You can't teach EVERY POSSIBLE defense and expect to do well. (Note: having superior talent would make it easier)

but when you don’t have the players to run something, you shouldn’t run it.  Or you should find a way around your weaknesses. 

Yeah, I agree that he shouldn't run much zone. He should pressure the ball more.