Frank being Frank game

[kso_FAN]

Either way its on the coaches.  

ultimately everything is on the coaches.  i don't object to blaming them, i object to the knee-jerking, reactionary way of allocating blame.

Here's the thing this week, we've seen Franking around at both extremes and its frustrating. First was the "throw the young guys out there in crunch time" (both Gip and Angel) and it backfires because both make critical mistakes. Then its "teach the young guys (and some old guys) a lesson by not letting them see the floor". This has usually happened against opponents that Frank clearly thinks we'll be fine against and sometimes it backfires like it did today.

I guess in these situations I'd much rather Frank not "tell the truth" (as he said in post game) and give us the accountability coaching line and just say (in both cases) "I didn't have the guys prepared to play". Because in many ways its true.

After the Baylor game I was fine with Martin doing his thing (throwing Angel/Gip out there) and living with it knowing that probably it helps the long run. It just gets annoying when in the same week he pulls the opposite and then Angel doesn't even see the floor. I get the "I've got to make a point about how your practice" talking point, but make it with a half, then get the guy back out there. We aren't in position to go out and lose games so Frank can make his points in January (again). I'm not saying that Frank is directly doing anything to lose games, but at some point he's got to check his ego (and his inability at times to keep his emotions in check) and make coaching decisions that both help his players AND his team win games. To me in the past week he hasn't done that and its cost us. The players have their fair share of responsibility, but I don't disagree with the daxpoint of Frank being the guy earning nealry 2 mil a year to win basketball games either.

[catzacker]

I object to the knee jerk reactionary ways of always tossing the players under the bus.   Yeah, they stunk, and it's the guy making $1.8 million dollars this year job to make sure they don't stink.

Lazy tired defense sure, but OU made sure they took advantage of every weakness that K-State has on defense, over play, run to the ball, $hit on ball defense at the guard position except for maybe Tay .  . . toss in Frank being Frank and you have a day like today.

Plus, and while I'll defer to Jeff Capel and his "recruiting" it is kind of sad that we're in Year 5 of the Frank Martin, and yet teams like OU have equal to, if not better talent than K-State and they've not been very good and had all kinds of upheaval in that program.    But hey, it's all about the "right fit".


Sad

Have you rough ridin' watched OU this year? There are only 3 maybe 4 Big 12 level athletes on the roster, and there is no rough ridin' size.  Pledger and Fitz can both score a little but they're flawed athletically. I would take KSU's roster over OU's everyday of the week.

i don't think running down OU's talent make's any case for wanting KSU's roster.  And certainly not a case for KSU's roster given a coach that's been here for 5 years. 

[CatMission]

My major problem today is that Frank continually preaches that we expect to win every game and then promptly players who can help you do that because someone pouts during practice. Of course Angel was pouting, he felt like he lost the game for his team on Tuesday night. This loss is on Frank and not for that coach-speak "I didn't have them prepared" BS. Leave that to Todd Haley, Frank, and quit mind-f'ing your team.

[catzacker]

"This either gets your attention and makes you get stuff right or it makes you pack your bags and go home."

so, so old.     buy a mirror, frank.  or get less of them. 

[Lucas Scoopsalot]

horrid coaching decisions which kill momentum (zone today). 

this is what i mean.  i mean, did you see how bad kstate's man was?  how could you possibly object to playing zone?  there is no way it could be worse.  so they hit a 3 right after, that doesn't mean anything, they were scoring at will against the man.

it's just mindless knee-jerking.


oh, and we never had momentum.

disagree entirely

if i'm remembering correctly we switched to zone at 6:18 in the second half and the OU guy hit their 3. 

Now if we look at the stats, its absurd to say we didn't have the momentum. 
At 8:23 we were down 18 (69-51).  Over the next two minutes we got the lead down to 8 with a 10-0 run.  That is momentum in this league in an away game.  To say otherwise is dishonest at best.
We were man D during that 2 minutes I believe and than left them wide open again for 3 to kill the run.  It was a mirror image of our coaching staff failing us at KU with the same idiocy.


Linkage
http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/playbyplay?gameId=320140201

I completely agree. There were timeouts that we came out of and threw the ball away and Oklahoma took advantage. It seemed like every time we got momentum it was taken away pretty fast.

[kim carnes]

Angel will probably transfer.

[Stupid Fitz]

Angel will probably transfer.

Would be a disaster

[Fuktard]

Ref:  "Coach you've only got 4 players on the floor...you need to sub someone in"

Frank: "My teams on the floor"

like it or not, that's Franks way of coaching.  I actually like it and although it may cost us a game or two, by the end of the season we are a better team.  The reality is that this team is VERY young and lessons need to be taught NOW.   I hated losing today, but OU played lights out (Alexander and Osby 15-18 fg and 9-10 ft...are you kidding me?) and we still had a chance late to make it a game.  Loved the fire. As long as we are becoming a better team, I have no issue with Franks methods.

[Lucas Scoopsalot]

We will lose at least one Scholarship  player by the end of the season. I just know it.

[wetwillie]

Angel is not a Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!), why you retards think he will transfer like one is beyond me.

[sys]

Over the next two minutes we got the lead down to 8 with a 10-0 run.  That is momentum in this league in an away game.  To say otherwise is dishonest at best.

the defense was horrible during that "run".  ou just missed open shots.  that's not a sustainable way to take momentum, cut a deficit or win a game.

[sys]

Here's the thing this week, we've seen Franking around at both extremes and its frustrating. First was the "throw the young guys out there in crunch time" (both Gip and Angel) and it backfires because both make critical mistakes. Then its "teach the young guys (and some old guys) a lesson by not letting them see the floor". This has usually happened against opponents thatFrank clearly thinks we'll be fine against and sometimes it backfires like it did today.

_fan, the problem with pointing a finger at either is that neither was that important.  ar-t and gipson weren't the reason they lost against baylor - the entire team, including veterans was unable to control the ball, and to a lesser extent, defend.  to blame ar-t or gipson or to blame martin for playing them is ludicrous.  those aren't the guys primarily responsible for winning or losing games this season.

to blame martin for not playing ar-t at ou is even worse.   kstate didn't lose because they didn't have ar-t, and he sure as hell wasn't going to come in and fix the problem of 10 guys not being able to defend.

[kso_FAN]

Here's the thing this week, we've seen Franking around at both extremes and its frustrating. First was the "throw the young guys out there in crunch time" (both Gip and Angel) and it backfires because both make critical mistakes. Then its "teach the young guys (and some old guys) a lesson by not letting them see the floor". This has usually happened against opponents thatFrank clearly thinks we'll be fine against and sometimes it backfires like it did today.

_fan, the problem with pointing a finger at either is that neither was that important.  ar-t and gipson weren't the reason they lost against baylor - the entire team, including veterans was unable to control the ball, and to a lesser extent, defend.  to blame ar-t or gipson or to blame martin for playing them is ludicrous.  those aren't the guys primarily responsible for winning or losing games this season.

to blame martin for not playing ar-t at ou is even worse.   kstate didn't lose because they didn't have ar-t, and he sure as hell wasn't going to come in and fix the problem of 10 guys not being able to defend.

I am not and never have been a person that blames one thing for a loss. Neither of these were the sole reason we lost either game, far from it. However, I also will not excuse Martin's role, and I suppose I was hoping by year four he would have started to figure out some better methods to get his lessons taught, especially by the time league play roles around.

[sys]

However, I also will not excuse Martin's role, and I suppose I was hoping by year four he would have started to figure out some better methods to get his lessons taught, especially by the time league play roles around.

his role in the losses was his inability to better prepare the team to defend and limit turnovers.  his in game decisions had nothing to do with losing.

[sonofdaxjones]

I think everytime Frank has gone to a zone so far in conference it has been fantastic coaching, and clearly the players didn't execute.

It's all on the players, never on Frank once the whistle blows.

[EMAWzified]

We lost Tuesday to a top-5 team by 2. Why the over-reaction. Sure we made mistakes, but . . .
Correct those and move on, don't tear it apart again.
But it's like every season has to be Frank's rags to riches to rags t riches autobiography.

[kso_FAN]

However, I also will not excuse Martin's role, and I suppose I was hoping by year four he would have started to figure out some better methods to get his lessons taught, especially by the time league play roles around.

his role in the losses was his inability to better prepare the team to defend and limit turnovers.  his in game decisions had nothing to do with losing.

That's the larger role, but I don't agree that personnel decisions in games are meaningless.

[kim carnes]

However, I also will not excuse Martin's role, and I suppose I was hoping by year four he would have started to figure out some better methods to get his lessons taught, especially by the time league play roles around.

his role in the losses was his inability to better prepare the team to defend and limit turnovers.  his in game decisions had nothing to do with losing.

 

[ednksu]

Over the next two minutes we got the lead down to 8 with a 10-0 run.  That is momentum in this league in an away game.  To say otherwise is dishonest at best.

the defense was horrible during that "run".  ou just missed open shots.  that's not a sustainable way to take momentum, cut a deficit or win a game.

this is the problem with trying to have a conversation with people like You and MIR.  You get proved wrong and your only retort is to say what is dramatically proven and destroy's your position isn't what it actually was/is. 

10-0 run where our absolutely PATHETIC offense was hitting ANYTHING is momentum.  Note how right after that we went ICE COLD again, just like the other 35 minutes of the game where we couldn't hit a shot.   We cut a massive deficit by more than half.  Its the exact same thing from the KU game, massive deficit, KU back on heels, we're in the game, and crap in game coaching costs us the momentum.  I'll wait for you to tell me that run @ ku wasn't momentum either.

Like I said, dishonest at best, at worse out right lie or lower than low BBIQ.

[catzacker]

However, I also will not excuse Martin's role, and I suppose I was hoping by year four he would have started to figure out some better methods to get his lessons taught, especially by the time league play roles around.

his role in the losses was his inability to better prepare the team to defend and limit turnovers.  his in game decisions had nothing to do with losing.

preparing your team and the ability to adjust during games are, like, huge f'ing things on the coaching to do list.  maybe if players didn't spend time running stairs instead of practicing they would have been better prepared?  I mean if 5 players lost that much practice time, then it's on frank.  he has to be able to find other ways to get his point across.  christ, how do you even practice with 8 players?

[wabash909]

Victor Ojele was teaching a lot of important lessons on the court today.  Hopefully Angel Rodriguez was taking notes.

[michigancat]

Pledger = McGruds. 

Really?

umm, yes. 

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=steven-pledger&p1=rodney-mcgruder

also, Fitzgerald is a 4* , so is cameron clark.

actually, OU is more talented.

And Osby was top 50.

[felix rex]

Victor Ojele was teaching a lot of important lessons on the court today.  Hopefully Angel Rodriguez was taking notes.

After Semi commits to Wisconsin, I hope we kick Victor off the damn team.

[michigancat]

However, I also will not excuse Martin's role, and I suppose I was hoping by year four he would have started to figure out some better methods to get his lessons taught, especially by the time league play roles around.

his role in the losses was his inability to better prepare the team to defend and limit turnovers.  his in game decisions had nothing to do with losing.

That's the larger role, but I don't agree that personnel decisions in games are meaningless.

They balance out over the season. (even if you could definitively say they make a difference.)

[wabash909]

Victor Ojele was teaching a lot of important lessons on the court today.  Hopefully Angel Rodriguez was taking notes.

After Semi commits to Wisconsin, I hope we kick Victor off the damn team.

We need Victor to deliver our in game punishments to our good players.  Who else will Frank rely on?