proposal to change :opcat: to :gingrich:

[MakeItRain]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/10/politics/gingrich-palestinians/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

Is Palestinian a race?

[06wildcat]

Is Palestinian a race?

 

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

"I believe that the Jewish people have the right to have a state," Gingrich said in the interview. "Remember, there was no Palestine as a state. It was part of the Ottoman Empire. And I think that we've had an invented Palestinian people, who are in fact Arabs, who are historically part of the Arab community."

This doesn't seem crazy, stupid, or racist to me. Should be fun to hear the experts on this board weigh in, though. 

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

Is Palestinian a race?

 

But the Gingrich camp made no apology for the remark -- which some Palestinian leaders declared "racist" -- saying the former House speaker was simply referencing "decades of complex history."

[06wildcat]

"I believe that the Jewish people have the right to have a state," Gingrich said in the interview. "Remember, there was no Palestine as a state. It was part of the Ottoman Empire. And I think that we've had an invented Palestinian people, who are in fact Arabs, who are historically part of the Arab community."

This doesn't seem crazy, stupid, or racist to me. Should be fun to hear the experts on this board weigh in, though. 

It's not crazy or stupid, just rough ridin' Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!). By his logic, Israelis are an invented people, since there never was an Israeli state. It was part of the Ottoman Empire too. Along with being possessed by the Greeks, Romans and a handful of other empires.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

"I believe that the Jewish people have the right to have a state," Gingrich said in the interview. "Remember, there was no Palestine as a state. It was part of the Ottoman Empire. And I think that we've had an invented Palestinian people, who are in fact Arabs, who are historically part of the Arab community."

This doesn't seem crazy, stupid, or racist to me. Should be fun to hear the experts on this board weigh in, though. 

It's not crazy or stupid, just rough ridin' Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!). By his logic, Israelis are an invented people, since there never was an Israeli state. It was part of the Ottoman Empire too. Along with being possessed by the Greeks, Romans and a handful of other empires.

Not races you dolt.   Based on the nonsensical logic employed by the left, Obama is racist against rich people.  Mods, please change to :obama:

[06wildcat]

"I believe that the Jewish people have the right to have a state," Gingrich said in the interview. "Remember, there was no Palestine as a state. It was part of the Ottoman Empire. And I think that we've had an invented Palestinian people, who are in fact Arabs, who are historically part of the Arab community."

This doesn't seem crazy, stupid, or racist to me. Should be fun to hear the experts on this board weigh in, though. 

It's not crazy or stupid, just rough ridin' Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!). By his logic, Israelis are an invented people, since there never was an Israeli state. It was part of the Ottoman Empire too. Along with being possessed by the Greeks, Romans and a handful of other empires.

Not races you dolt.   Based on the nonsensical logic employed by the left, Obama is racist against rich people.  Mods, please change to :obama:

Thanks for quoting me FSD. Your reading comprehension is astounding.

[MakeItRain]

The question I have is when and why Republicans started to care about Israel and Jews?  Was it when every other inhabitant of the middle east became public enemy #1? 

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

The question I have is when and why Republicans started to care about Israel and Jews?  Was it when every other inhabitant of the middle east became public enemy #1? 

Good question (not at all, how someone can be this ignorant of US diplomacy is almost unbelievable).  I doubt it has anything to do with the non-partisan US alliance with Israel that has existed for decades (actually this is exactly it).  The Democrats complete 180 on US-Israel is totally rational (not at all, this is where the real question lies).

You'd think the liberal left would be moving mountains to support the Jews, particularly given their persecution of Jesus 2000+ years ago.  I guess it's more of a "what have you done for me lately" kind of thing.

[felix rex]

The question I have is when and why Republicans started to care about Israel and Jews?  Was it when every other inhabitant of the middle east became public enemy #1? 

Dreyfuss and balfour, I'd guess.

The really funny part here is that he could make a legit argument about Palestinians being denied citizenship by their Arab "brothers" for blatantly political reasons. That would be a worthwhile political discussion for a guy like him to force. But he completely overshot the mark. I mean, I understand his philosophy about having a "new way to campaign", but this is where not having a real research staff gets you.

But thank god he's talking himself out of the election.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

"I believe that the Jewish people have the right to have a state," Gingrich said in the interview. "Remember, there was no Palestine as a state. It was part of the Ottoman Empire. And I think that we've had an invented Palestinian people, who are in fact Arabs, who are historically part of the Arab community."

This doesn't seem crazy, stupid, or racist to me. Should be fun to hear the experts on this board weigh in, though. 

It's not crazy or stupid, just rough ridin' Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!). By his logic, Israelis are an invented people, since there never was an Israeli state. It was part of the Ottoman Empire too. Along with being possessed by the Greeks, Romans and a handful of other empires.

Yes, Israel was created, and now we have Israelis, who are both Jewish and Arab. There is no country of Palestine, yet. Therefore, there are no Palestinians. Palestine was an ancient region, that has been conquered countless times by countless peoples, as Newt notes. I believe Newt's point (and without more context, I could be way off) is that, when people argue that there should be a Palestinian state because there are "Palestinians," that is a completely backwards argument or, to put it another way, "rough ridin' Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)."

Arguments by the "Palestinians" that Newt's comments are "racist," are also "rough ridin' Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)," as others have noted.

[kim carnes]

The question I have is when and why Republicans started to care about Israel and Jews?  Was it when every other inhabitant of the middle east became public enemy #1? 

hmm... do you know anything about christianity?  that should help you find your answer.

[06wildcat]

"I believe that the Jewish people have the right to have a state," Gingrich said in the interview. "Remember, there was no Palestine as a state. It was part of the Ottoman Empire. And I think that we've had an invented Palestinian people, who are in fact Arabs, who are historically part of the Arab community."

This doesn't seem crazy, stupid, or racist to me. Should be fun to hear the experts on this board weigh in, though. 

It's not crazy or stupid, just rough ridin' Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!). By his logic, Israelis are an invented people, since there never was an Israeli state. It was part of the Ottoman Empire too. Along with being possessed by the Greeks, Romans and a handful of other empires.

Yes, Israel was created, and now we have Israelis, who are both Jewish and Arab. There is no country of Palestine, yet. Therefore, there are no Palestinians. Palestine was an ancient region, that has been conquered countless times by countless peoples, as Newt notes. I believe Newt's point (and without more context, I could be way off) is that, when people argue that there should be a Palestinian state because there are "Palestinians," that is a completely backwards argument or, to put it another way, "rough ridin' Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)."

Arguments by the "Palestinians" that Newt's comments are "racist," are also "rough ridin' Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)," as others have noted.

So you're going with Newt is a rough ridin' Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) as a defense. It's bold, I'll give you that.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

"I believe that the Jewish people have the right to have a state," Gingrich said in the interview. "Remember, there was no Palestine as a state. It was part of the Ottoman Empire. And I think that we've had an invented Palestinian people, who are in fact Arabs, who are historically part of the Arab community."

This doesn't seem crazy, stupid, or racist to me. Should be fun to hear the experts on this board weigh in, though. 

It's not crazy or stupid, just rough ridin' Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!). By his logic, Israelis are an invented people, since there never was an Israeli state. It was part of the Ottoman Empire too. Along with being possessed by the Greeks, Romans and a handful of other empires.

Yes, Israel was created, and now we have Israelis, who are both Jewish and Arab. There is no country of Palestine, yet. Therefore, there are no Palestinians. Palestine was an ancient region, that has been conquered countless times by countless peoples, as Newt notes. I believe Newt's point (and without more context, I could be way off) is that, when people argue that there should be a Palestinian state because there are "Palestinians," that is a completely backwards argument or, to put it another way, "rough ridin' Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)."

Arguments by the "Palestinians" that Newt's comments are "racist," are also "rough ridin' Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)," as others have noted.

So you're going with Newt is a rough ridin' respect as a defense. It's bold, I'll give you that.

Yeah, I really have no idea what that even means, but nice tap out. Do you disagree with my substantive comments, or do you think I'm misinterpreting what Newt said?

[06wildcat]

1. It doesn't take a state for a group of people to be recognized.

2. Identifying Palestinian people as simply Arabs is like saying we are all British.

[felix rex]

2. Identifying Palestinian people as simply Arabs is like saying we are all British.

No. You're on the right track, though.

[06wildcat]

2. Identifying Palestinian people as simply Arabs is like saying we are all British.

No. You're on the right track, though.

Trying to keep this as simple as possible for him. Though I doubt he could even connect the dots between the two major things shared by the two groups.

[jmlynch1]

Native Americans are a made up people

[DQ12]

Newt should either be more educated, or be more thoughtful, when speaking about Palestinian history.

[LickNeckey]

Yes, Israel was created, and now we have Israelis, who are both Jewish and Arab. There is no country of Palestine, yet. Therefore, there are no Palestinians. Palestine was an ancient region, that has been conquered countless times by countless peoples, as Newt notes. I believe Newt's point (and without more context, I could be way off) is that, when people argue that there should be a Palestinian state because there are "Palestinians," that is a completely backwards argument or, to put it another way, "rough ridin' Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)."

Arguments by the "Palestinians" that Newt's comments are "racist," are also "rough ridin' Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)," as others have noted.
[/quote]

The term Palestinian represents an ethnic group of Palestinian Arabs who maintain a unique Palestinian Arabic vernacular.  This group was part of a more cosmopolitan political area following the fall of the Ottoman Empire the area, controlled by the British was known as the British Mandate of Palestine.  Irregardless of this to say that there are no Palestinians because there is no Palestine is a flawed anthropological concept.  A comparable situation, both regionally and sociologically, would be to claim that there are no Kurds because there is no Kurdistan.  Or to say that the ethnic groups populating the Balkan peninsula only became ethnic groups following the "balkanization" of Serbia.  These point are inherently flawed and without merit. 

Secondly... If Newt's point is to say that "when people argue that there should be a Palestinian state because there are "Palestinians," that is a completely backwards argument".  That would be ok if people actually made that argument.  However this is not an argument that i have ever heard made and constitutes an extreme simplification of the motivations and justifications for a Palestinian State.

At BEST. Newt's comments are unnecessary and inflammatory.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

Ok, so are these same Arabs who live in Israel also Palestinian? Maybe they're Palestinian-Israelis. This ethnic grievance mongering is all so confusing sometimes!

[Kat Kid]

Ok, so are these same Arabs who live in Israel also Palestinian? Maybe they're Palestinian-Israelis. This ethnic grievance mongering is all so confusing sometimes!

Talk to Israel they don't have full citizenship rights so they sure as hell aren't Israeli.

[jmlynch1]

Ok, so are these same Arabs who live in Israel also Palestinian? Maybe they're Palestinian-Israelis. This ethnic grievance mongering is all so confusing sometimes!

The majority of Arabs who live in Israel are Palestinians. Are you referring to Israeli Jews?

[DQ12]

If Israelis had a right to a state, then why don't Palestinians?  Hamas is on record as supporting a two-state solution.