Penn St's AD Tim Curley charge with perjury: sex abuse

[CNS]

How many scholarships did they lose?  Also two or three yrs of bowls. 

I mean, was it much worse than if they had players trading tats for jerseys?

[sonofdaxjones]

I don't think so.  Penn State is a member institution.  Most organizations would kick a member out if they were suddenly known as kiddie rape central.

Using your logic, I think we should proclaim K-State as abductor (and possibly armed abductor depending on how you want to look at it) central.

[sonofdaxjones]

How many scholarships did they lose?  Also two or three yrs of bowls. 

I mean, was it much worse than if they had players trading tats for jerseys?

But the Ohio State situation was a clear violation of NCAA rules and they had a coach who clearly violated the actual letter of actual NCAA rules.

Not the same thing.   Why does everyone keep co-mingling this stuff?  Fascinating

[CNS]

I don't think so.  Penn State is a member institution.  Most organizations would kick a member out if they were suddenly known as kiddie rape central.

Using your logic, I think we should proclaim K-State as abductor (and possibly armed abductor depending on how you want to look at it) central.

Did our head coach, AD, and pres all conspire to cover up repeated abductions by a prominent person of power?  Did we have a prominent coach using our facilities as a way to lure abductees into their trap?  How many ppl were abducted from our locker rooms?

[sonofdaxjones]

Based on CNS logic and the happenings in Arizona in 2003/4 and the way K-State offiicals immediately injected themselves into the legal matter.

We can say K-State is, dare I say it, "Rape Central".

[CNS]

Based on CNS logic and the happenings in Arizona in 2003/4 and the way K-State offiicals immediately injected themselves into the legal matter.

We can say K-State is, dare I say it, "Rape Central".

I can't wait to hear this.

[meow meow]

How many scholarships did they lose?  Also two or three yrs of bowls. 

I mean, was it much worse than if they had players trading tats for jerseys?

they've been winning 7 or 8 games the last few years, so i don't think the punishment was harsh enough

[michigancat]

How many scholarships did they lose?  Also two or three yrs of bowls. 

I mean, was it much worse than if they had players trading tats for jerseys?

But the Ohio State situation was a clear violation of NCAA rules and they had a coach who clearly violated the actual letter of actual NCAA rules.

Not the same thing.   Why does everyone keep co-mingling this stuff?  Fascinating

Dax, we understand that the NCAA may have overstepped their jurisdiction a bit. No one is arguing that.

We're arguing that it's a good thing they did and they should have done more. If anything, they should expand their rules to more severely punish schools who try to cover up crimes. Yes, this applies to KSU covering up that abduction with a shotgun and Ell Roberson's visit with the Tempe police.

[sonofdaxjones]

How many scholarships did they lose?  Also two or three yrs of bowls. 

I mean, was it much worse than if they had players trading tats for jerseys?

But the Ohio State situation was a clear violation of NCAA rules and they had a coach who clearly violated the actual letter of actual NCAA rules.

Not the same thing.   Why does everyone keep co-mingling this stuff?  Fascinating

Dax, we understand that the NCAA may have overstepped their jurisdiction a bit. No one is arguing that.

We're arguing that it's a good thing they did and they should have done more. If anything, they should expand their rules to more severely punish schools who try to cover up crimes. Yes, this applies to KSU covering up that abduction with a shotgun and Ell Roberson's visit with the Tempe police.

Sorry, I don't want the NCAA engaged in matters that are almost purely of a legal nature unless it also involved clear and succint violations of NCAA rules in regards to garnering an unfair advantage over other schools.  That's what the NCAA is there for.   Otherwise you place more arbitrary power in the hands of an already extraordinarily arbitrary organization.

If that's what you want, than what you should really want is a complete disbanding of the NCAA and just starting from scratch, which wouldn't be a bad idea.

[sonofdaxjones]

Based on CNS logic and the happenings in Arizona in 2003/4 and the way K-State offiicals immediately injected themselves into the legal matter.

We can say K-State is, dare I say it, "Rape Central".

I can't wait to hear this.

Youngster

[michigancat]

How many scholarships did they lose?  Also two or three yrs of bowls. 

I mean, was it much worse than if they had players trading tats for jerseys?

But the Ohio State situation was a clear violation of NCAA rules and they had a coach who clearly violated the actual letter of actual NCAA rules.

Not the same thing.   Why does everyone keep co-mingling this stuff?  Fascinating

Dax, we understand that the NCAA may have overstepped their jurisdiction a bit. No one is arguing that.

We're arguing that it's a good thing they did and they should have done more. If anything, they should expand their rules to more severely punish schools who try to cover up crimes. Yes, this applies to KSU covering up that abduction with a shotgun and Ell Roberson's visit with the Tempe police.

Sorry, I don't want the NCAA engaged in matters that are almost purely of a legal nature unless it also involved clear and succint violations of NCAA rules in regards to garnering an unfair advantage over other schools.  That's what the NCAA is there for.   Otherwise you place more arbitrary power in the hands of an already extraordinarily arbitrary organization.

I think harboring a culture that can get away with covering up child rape is an unfair advantage over schools that don't cover up child rape. I mean, it's not exactly an advantage you want to be proud of, but goddam, Penn State would have really been hurt if this news was made public as soon as they knew about it.

[CNS]

Based on CNS logic and the happenings in Arizona in 2003/4 and the way K-State offiicals immediately injected themselves into the legal matter.

We can say K-State is, dare I say it, "Rape Central".

I can't wait to hear this.

Youngster

outed

[sonofdaxjones]

How many scholarships did they lose?  Also two or three yrs of bowls. 

I mean, was it much worse than if they had players trading tats for jerseys?

But the Ohio State situation was a clear violation of NCAA rules and they had a coach who clearly violated the actual letter of actual NCAA rules.

Not the same thing.   Why does everyone keep co-mingling this stuff?  Fascinating

Dax, we understand that the NCAA may have overstepped their jurisdiction a bit. No one is arguing that.

We're arguing that it's a good thing they did and they should have done more. If anything, they should expand their rules to more severely punish schools who try to cover up crimes. Yes, this applies to KSU covering up that abduction with a shotgun and Ell Roberson's visit with the Tempe police.

Sorry, I don't want the NCAA engaged in matters that are almost purely of a legal nature unless it also involved clear and succint violations of NCAA rules in regards to garnering an unfair advantage over other schools.  That's what the NCAA is there for.   Otherwise you place more arbitrary power in the hands of an already extraordinarily arbitrary organization.

I think harboring a culture that can get away with covering up child rape is an unfair advantage over schools that don't cover up child rape. I mean, it's not exactly an advantage you want to be proud of, but goddam, Penn State would have really been hurt if this news was made public as soon as they knew about it.

That's true, and you know as well as anyone cRusty that all kinds of stuff is/has/will be shoved under the rug at K-State, KU, and just about everywhere else that's purely only a legal matter.    So, now we want the NCAA deciding what sanctions to hand down on matters that are covered under "all other things . . ." language and the ilk?

I'll take the Tark angle on this by saying that Cleveland State just got the death penalty because 2 football players at USC robbed a bank.

No thanks.

[michigancat]

That's true, and you know as well as anyone cRusty that all kinds of stuff is/has/will be shoved under the rug at K-State, KU, and just about everybody that's purely only a legal matter.    So, now we want the NCAA deciding what sanctions to hand down on matters that are covered under "all other things . . ." language and the ilk?

This was far more complicated than "purely only a legal matter".

And yeah if it comes out that we shoved legal stuff under the rug, I think we should be punished by the NCAA. (Or the NCAA should just fold and not hand out any punishments for anything ever again).

[sonofdaxjones]

That's true, and you know as well as anyone cRusty that all kinds of stuff is/has/will be shoved under the rug at K-State, KU, and just about everybody that's purely only a legal matter.    So, now we want the NCAA deciding what sanctions to hand down on matters that are covered under "all other things . . ." language and the ilk?

This was far more complicated than "purely only a legal matter".

And yeah if it comes out that we shoved legal stuff under the rug, I think we should be punished by the NCAA. (Or the NCAA should just fold and not hand out any punishments for anything ever again).

That's probably not a bad idea.   I mean we are talking about an organization that jumped all over a legal matter at Penn State (a very serious one I'll grant you that).   But decided that an academic issue at North Carolina where by every indication North Carolina athletics got a clear, concise, undeniable advantage in that they easily kept star players eligible with fake classes . . . and the NCAA "determines" that it was purely an institutional academic issue.   

So go back to what I put in bold and underlined and start from there.

[TownieCat]

They should have gotten whatever death penalty SMU got. It wasn't just individuals that let it happen, it was the culture. And that culture deserved to be killed.

At the time I would have agreed with that penalty too. A harsh punishment only makes sense if you are punishing the right people though.

[michigancat]

They should have gotten whatever death penalty SMU got. It wasn't just individuals that let it happen, it was the culture. And that culture deserved to be killed.

At the time I would have agreed with that penalty too. A harsh punishment only makes sense if you are punishing the right people though.

Like I said, it wasn't just a "people" problem - it was also an institutional culture problem. So harshly punishing the institution (regardless of the specific individuals involved) makes sense.

[sonofdaxjones]

Looks like you need to take your bully pulpit over to former U.S. Senator George Mitchell's office cRusty.

1 year post season ban, 2 year loss of scholarship, $60 million dollar fine and ongoing 3rd party monitoring is basically what Penn State got.

[meow meow]

cRusty

[Paul Moscow]

Looks like you need to take your bully pulpit over to former U.S. Senator George Mitchell's office cRusty.

1 year post season ban, 2 year loss of scholarship, $60 million dollar fine and ongoing 3rd party monitoring is basically what Penn State got.

Um, you forgot about the 120 recommendations from the Freeh Report in which Penn State (as according to Mitchell) has met 115 and have an additional 3 currently in progress. Recommendations are on page 127 "http://progress.psu.edu/assets/content/REPORT_FINAL_071212.pdf"

While I'm certainly no defender of the NCAA the drawback of the sanctions is not some half-hearted admittance to bureaucratic overreach. With Penn State meeting the recommendations thoroughly and quickly there's little reason to keep the sanctions in place besides catharsis as the intent all along was for Penn State to be punished and to rehabilitate itself not destroy it permanently. 

[DQ12]

the intent all along was for Penn State to be punished and to rehabilitate itself not destroy it permanently

Right. That's why they didn't receive the death penalty and the bowl ban wasn't permanent.

People are pissed because they think the punishment as it stands isn't severe enough.

[meow meow]

it's just hard reading that article and hearing Jay Paterno all red assed about vacated wins for his father that he wants to get restored.  it's sickening.

[sonofdaxjones]

While I disagree with the catch all language that brought the NCAA into the equation, I wouldn't have lifted the postseason ban this year, and would have only reduced the number of lost scholarships by half and kept the lost rides in place until 2016.

[doompaul]

 

[star seed 7]

SO the end result is in fact: nothing of consequence happened to Penn State's football program.  They got away with it. The program will be back to where it was (or better!) next year (if they have the proper coaching staff).

Yeah, on their 2nd coach in a post Paterno environment, no post season.

In a social media world people clearly feel the need to prove just how outraged they are again and again, just so everybody knows just how outraged they are.

This is fantastic coming from the blogs biggest agendite  (who starts a few threads a week about his various agendited outrages)