Report: Mangino to K-State

[Panjandrum]

I mean, I doubt our coaches would say that stuff to the kids.  I doubt Baylor is going out and highlighting the fact that their quarterback broke his neck last week. 

I really don't think our style of offense has a significant effect on the talent we have.  Waters played here for the better part of two years without missing much time to injury (at least I don't recall him missing much time).

What I'm saying is that we can say whatever we want, but the proof is out there for them to find if they so choose.

Or, more likely, opposing coaches are probably telling them something along these lines, which upon further review, they realize is in the realm of true.

[Panjandrum]

Panjandrum:  i don't think our style of offense (or our non-"cutting edge" uniforms) has much to do with us not getting talent.  I think recruiters are the reason we don't have talent

I think a few are good, but some of them are horrible.  No doubt.

But I don't think it's all their recruiting ability.  At some point, selling the program has to be difficult when kids watch what you do on the field. 

I'm not sure what their sales pitch can be? 

"Come to Kansas State and play running back.  But if you fumble, we're going to replace you with a 2-star kid with 4.8 speed who can block better than you can."

"Come to Kansas State and play quarterback.  But odds of you making it thorough four games without breaking something is highly unlikely."

"Come to Kansas State and play wide receiver where you can sit behind walk-on JUCO QB's on the depth chart."

I'd get into the defense, but you get the gist.

FWIW - I do agree our current program is built to discourage high-talent kids who are afraid of getting marginalized for the sake of an overall program philosophy. At the same time, it is very attractive for those who are mostly overlooked (which is not awful; RG3 and Manziel got shot down by their top choices).

I actually think plenty of programs do things similarly on a day-to-day basis, it's just Bill seems a bit different in making a point that your job will always be at risk to a walk on, which no one really wants to hear in their recruiting pitch.

Yes, as usual, this board has emphasized the negatives.
It seems to me that if I were a bad-ass high school recruit, I would like my chances to come here and play early if I was willing to do the things that made me a complete player.  In other words, if I run a 4.4, and am willing to learn how to block and to not fumble the ball (things I will need to do in the NFL), I have a great chance of starting early at KSU.

Our philosophy is about production.  I don't believe that we refrain from playing guys to teach them a lesson.  We play the guys that give us the best chance of winning.  This staff believes that the best chance of winning is to play guys that don't make mistakes.  Plus, this approach produces a culture that will benefit the program over the long run.

It is the same philosophy that allowed us to win more big 12 games than any other school from 2011-14.  You guys want to throw out the baby with the bathwater, based on a rough start to this big 12 season.  The approach we use can--and does--work.  You guys just don't like that approach, and are using this subpar season as an excuse to attack a system you simply don't like.  Your attack of Snyder's system has nothing to do with results, but style.
[/quote

Bryce Brown played in the NFL, but didn't play here.

[catastrophe]

^yea, but then he got cut for the exact same reason he couldn't play at KSU.

[wetwillie]

This feels like the time dlew doubled down on starting conversations with where did you go to college.

[DQ12]

I mean, I doubt our coaches would say that stuff to the kids.  I doubt Baylor is going out and highlighting the fact that their quarterback broke his neck last week. 

I really don't think our style of offense has a significant effect on the talent we have.  Waters played here for the better part of two years without missing much time to injury (at least I don't recall him missing much time).

What I'm saying is that we can say whatever we want, but the proof is out there for them to find if they so choose.

Or, more likely, opposing coaches are probably telling them something along these lines, which upon further review, they realize is in the realm of true.

I guess I'm not 100% sure what your "proof" is.  That we run a balanced offense that isn't hurry up?  The horror.  How will a kid ever get to the NFL without exclusively running a hurry up offense?  Is it that we focus on the QB run game?  We're not at all unique in that respect.  You think our offense is boring and unappealing because our offense sucks this year, but really, this is our first offense in a while (2010) that hasn't been at least "pretty good."

I'm not here to defend our coaches, but I think you're grasping at straws.  I don't think it's any more complicated than a. our coaches are lousy recruiters, and b. we've had some rough misses at receiver the last few years.

[MakeItRain]

Things got stale Dlew, and that was 15 years ago, again, KU didn't start doing better on offense until Mangino backed off.

He was terrible at Iowa State as well.   You've just been removed from your coordinators position by Proud Paul Rhodes,  not exactly a resume builder.

Paul Rhodes is a dumbass, who is doing everything he can to save his own neck.  Mangino was doing fine this year, given the circumstances of ISU's program. 

What year did he stop calling KU's plays?

You can say he's a terrible coach, but several national coaching awards (at two different schools) disagree with you.

Mangino was really bad at Iowa State. Yes Rhodes is trying to save his job but I've been telling you guys that Mangino wouldn't survive the season. ISU has pretty good talent at the skill positions, they are absolutely better than KU, KSU, and Texas at the skill positions and just as good IMO as WVU and Tech. I don't know what he did at OU 15 years ago but he's been bad at ISU.

5.5 ypp isn't bad (~50th).  Them giving up 6.4 ypp is bad (116th).

I'll admit I haven't been watching too much Iowa State football (and you're probably more aware of it), but from the outside looking in, Mangino seems like a weird guy to pin the blame on for Iowa State's troubles this season.

It also wasn't a little known secret that Mangino was posturing for Rhodes' job. Mark being Mark.

[Dugout DickStone]

If I wanted to I could create a decent list of physically superior players losing time to Kansas try hards in our program's history.

[MakeItRain]

Rhodes wanted to change the starting QB and Mangino wasn't having it so Rhodes fired him. Rhodes also pretty much stated that he and Mangino argued over a lot of stuff.

[slobber]

Steffy, I am a better poster than you.


Gonna win 'em all!

[troubledscribe]

I want Mangino

[MakeItRain]

I want Mangino

You would

[SkinnyBenny]

Panjandrum:  i don't think our style of offense (or our non-"cutting edge" uniforms) has much to do with us not getting talent.  I think recruiters are the reason we don't have talent

I think a few are good, but some of them are horrible.  No doubt.

But I don't think it's all their recruiting ability.  At some point, selling the program has to be difficult when kids watch what you do on the field. 

I'm not sure what their sales pitch can be? 

"Come to Kansas State and play running back.  But if you fumble, we're going to replace you with a 2-star kid with 4.8 speed who can block better than you can."

"Come to Kansas State and play quarterback.  But odds of you making it thorough four games without breaking something is highly unlikely."

"Come to Kansas State and play wide receiver where you can sit behind walk-on JUCO QB's on the depth chart."

I'd get into the defense, but you get the gist.

FWIW - I do agree our current program is built to discourage high-talent kids who are afraid of getting marginalized for the sake of an overall program philosophy. At the same time, it is very attractive for those who are mostly overlooked (which is not awful; RG3 and Manziel got shot down by their top choices).

I actually think plenty of programs do things similarly on a day-to-day basis, it's just Bill seems a bit different in making a point that your job will always be at risk to a walk on, which no one really wants to hear in their recruiting pitch.

Yes, as usual, this board has emphasized the negatives.
It seems to me that if I were a bad-ass high school recruit, I would like my chances to come here and play early if I was willing to do the things that made me a complete player.  In other words, if I run a 4.4, and am willing to learn how to block and to not fumble the ball (things I will need to do in the NFL), I have a great chance of starting early at KSU.

Our philosophy is about production.  I don't believe that we refrain from playing guys to teach them a lesson.  We play the guys that give us the best chance of winning.  This staff believes that the best chance of winning is to play guys that don't make mistakes.  Plus, this approach produces a culture that will benefit the program over the long run.

It is the same philosophy that allowed us to win more big 12 games than any other school from 2011-14.  You guys want to throw out the baby with the bathwater, based on a rough start to this big 12 season.  The approach we use can--and does--work.  You guys just don't like that approach, and are using this subpar season as an excuse to attack a system you simply don't like.  Your attack of Snyder's system has nothing to do with results, but style.

and also results

[The Big Train]

I wish just once I could be a fly on the wall as steffy is pounding out a post and as his finger hits enter he takes a deep breathe and goes "Got 'em"

[Steffy08]

I wish just once I could be a fly on the wall as steffy is pounding out a post and as his finger hits enter he takes a deep breathe and goes "Got 'em"

No, not for this board.  Exposing stupidity here is like shooting fish in a barrel. 

[The Big Train]

[CHONGS]

Steffy, your problem is that you think LHC Bill Snyder is uniquely good. It is a horror to you, but there are a number of better college football coaches out there right now that Bill.  College football coaches that can get the high talent kids AND get them to play fundamental football.   LHC Bill Snyder won't prepare a player better for a successful NFL career than a whole bunch of other coaches out there. In fact if you are QB, history has shown Bill can't prepare you for the NFL.

[Katpappy]

Steffy, your problem is that you think LHC Bill Snyder is uniquely good. It is a horror to you, but there are a number of better college football coaches out there right now that Bill.  College football coaches that can get the high talent kids AND get them to play fundamental football.   LHC Bill Snyder won't prepare a player better for a successful NFL career than a whole bunch of other coaches out there. In fact if you are QB, history has shown Bill can't prepare you for the NFL.

But he sure can end your aspirations' of becoming a pro QB or QB at any level.  #perminjuryQBalley

[troubledscribe]

I wish just once I could be a fly on the wall as steffy is pounding out a post and as his finger hits enter he takes a deep breathe and goes "Got 'em"

No, not for this board.  Exposing stupidity here is like shooting fish in a barrel.

Can you describe exactly how you do this? Step by step?

[Steffy08]

Steffy, your problem is that you think LHC LHC Bill Snyder is uniquely good. It is a horror to you, but there are a number of better college football coaches out there right now that Bill.  College football coaches that can get the high talent kids AND get them to play fundamental football.   LHC LHC Bill Snyder won't prepare a player better for a successful NFL career than a whole bunch of other coaches out there. In fact if you are QB, history has shown Bill can't prepare you for the NFL.

Interesting perspective, bro.  But you are in the minority in this perspective, at least outside of this board (probably even for people that read this board; I suspect that the vocal people who hate Snyder are just a vocal minority).  Snyder just won more big 12 games in the last four years than Stoops, Briles, Gundy, or Patterson (last three years w regard to Patterson).  This was a rebuilding year, and then the injuries happened, and hell we still could be 5-2.  I'm frustrated too.  But, I don't think that this staff forgot how to coach in the last 8 months.  If we have another sub-par year next year, it will be time to question.  But not yet.  Rational people understand this.  This board doesn't simply because it does not like Snyder's methods.

I will make this observation (and a minor concession to this board):  I think this current staff could use a fire-breather.  Snyder is not that, by any stretch of the imagination.  In the 90's, Snyder's personality was balanced with the personality of people like Venebles, Stoops, Mangino.  We don't have that now.  Last week I watched our team and there was very little emotion, even when we were coming back and playing well in the second half.  Most of the coaches have a personality like Snyder's.  It is the same reason this board doesn't like the coaching staff.  Removing like/dislike from the equation, I do think this staff would be more effective if it had a little more of an edge to it.

That said, this staff has been very effective, albeit very bland and vanilla.  I would have more respect if people just came out and said they didn't like Snyder's personality and brand of football rather than making stupid arguments about him not being effective in winning games.

[The Big Train]

Nobody is gonna read that

[sunny_cat]

I wish just once I could be a fly on the wall as steffy is pounding out a post and as his finger hits enter he takes a deep breathe and goes "Got 'em"

No, not for this board.  Exposing stupidity here is like shooting fish in a barrel.

#ZAPPED

[sunny_cat]

Not enough body bags exist

[Katpappy]

Steffy, your problem is that you think LHC LHC Bill Snyder is uniquely good. It is a horror to you, but there are a number of better college football coaches out there right now that Bill.  College football coaches that can get the high talent kids AND get them to play fundamental football.   LHC LHC Bill Snyder won't prepare a player better for a successful NFL career than a whole bunch of other coaches out there. In fact if you are QB, history has shown Bill can't prepare you for the NFL.

Interesting perspective, bro.  But you are in the minority in this perspective, at least outside of this board (probably even for people that read this board; I suspect that the vocal people who hate Snyder are just a vocal minority).  Snyder just won more big 12 games in the last four years than Stoops, Briles, Gundy, or Patterson (last three years w regard to Patterson).  This was a rebuilding year, and then the injuries happened, and hell we still could be 5-2.  I'm frustrated too.  But, I don't think that this staff forgot how to coach in the last 8 months.  If we have another sub-par year next year, it will be time to question.  But not yet.  Rational people understand this.  This board doesn't simply because it does not like Snyder's methods.

I will make this observation (and a minor concession to this board):  I think this current staff could use a fire-breather.  Snyder is not that, by any stretch of the imagination.  In the 90's, Snyder's personality was balanced with the personality of people like Venebles, Stoops, Mangino.  We don't have that now.  Last week I watched our team and there was very little emotion, even when we were coming back and playing well in the second half.  Most of the coaches have a personality like Snyder's.  It is the same reason this board doesn't like the coaching staff.  Removing like/dislike from the equation, I do think this staff would be more effective if it had a little more of an edge to it.

That said, this staff has been very effective, albeit very bland and vanilla.  I would have more respect if people just came out and said they didn't like Snyder's personality and brand of football rather than making stupid arguments about him not being effective in winning games.

Steffy, I'm in section 20 and I along with the group around me all claim he's to old and absolutely hate Dimel's play calling.  I know because they are very vocal about it, only thye do not cuss as much as I do because of the kids.

[CHONGS]

Steffy, your problem is that you think LHC LHC Bill Snyder is uniquely good. It is a horror to you, but there are a number of better college football coaches out there right now that Bill.  College football coaches that can get the high talent kids AND get them to play fundamental football.   LHC LHC Bill Snyder won't prepare a player better for a successful NFL career than a whole bunch of other coaches out there. In fact if you are QB, history has shown Bill can't prepare you for the NFL.

Interesting perspective, bro.  But you are in the minority in this perspective, at least outside of this board (probably even for people that read this board; I suspect that the vocal people who hate Snyder are just a vocal minority).  Snyder just won more big 12 games in the last four years than Stoops, Briles, Gundy, or Patterson (last three years w regard to Patterson).  This was a rebuilding year, and then the injuries happened, and hell we still could be 5-2.  I'm frustrated too.  But, I don't think that this staff forgot how to coach in the last 8 months.  If we have another sub-par year next year, it will be time to question.  But not yet.  Rational people understand this.  This board doesn't simply because it does not like Snyder's methods.

I will make this observation (and a minor concession to this board):  I think this current staff could use a fire-breather.  Snyder is not that, by any stretch of the imagination.  In the 90's, Snyder's personality was balanced with the personality of people like Venebles, Stoops, Mangino.  We don't have that now.  Last week I watched our team and there was very little emotion, even when we were coming back and playing well in the second half.  Most of the coaches have a personality like Snyder's.  It is the same reason this board doesn't like the coaching staff.  Removing like/dislike from the equation, I do think this staff would be more effective if it had a little more of an edge to it.

That said, this staff has been very effective, albeit very bland and vanilla.  I would have more respect if people just came out and said they didn't like Snyder's personality and brand of football rather than making stupid arguments about him not being effective in winning games.

What was my perspective?  I am curious what you think it is.

Is is really that controversial that there are better college football coaches out there than LHC Bill Snyder?   I mean he is a good coach, a very good coach, a hall of fame coach in fact.  But there are other (soon to be) hall of fame coaches out there right now who are simply better right now. It shouldn't hurt your feelings to be able to admit that.  I swear its like talking with KU fans who think Bill Self is the only good college basketball coach and practically invented the game.

[Steffy08]

Steffy, your problem is that you think LHC LHC LHC Bill Snyder is uniquely good. It is a horror to you, but there are a number of better college football coaches out there right now that Bill.  College football coaches that can get the high talent kids AND get them to play fundamental football.   LHC LHC LHC Bill Snyder won't prepare a player better for a successful NFL career than a whole bunch of other coaches out there. In fact if you are QB, history has shown Bill can't prepare you for the NFL.

Interesting perspective, bro.  But you are in the minority in this perspective, at least outside of this board (probably even for people that read this board; I suspect that the vocal people who hate Snyder are just a vocal minority).  Snyder just won more big 12 games in the last four years than Stoops, Briles, Gundy, or Patterson (last three years w regard to Patterson).  This was a rebuilding year, and then the injuries happened, and hell we still could be 5-2.  I'm frustrated too.  But, I don't think that this staff forgot how to coach in the last 8 months.  If we have another sub-par year next year, it will be time to question.  But not yet.  Rational people understand this.  This board doesn't simply because it does not like Snyder's methods.

I will make this observation (and a minor concession to this board):  I think this current staff could use a fire-breather.  Snyder is not that, by any stretch of the imagination.  In the 90's, Snyder's personality was balanced with the personality of people like Venebles, Stoops, Mangino.  We don't have that now.  Last week I watched our team and there was very little emotion, even when we were coming back and playing well in the second half.  Most of the coaches have a personality like Snyder's.  It is the same reason this board doesn't like the coaching staff.  Removing like/dislike from the equation, I do think this staff would be more effective if it had a little more of an edge to it.

That said, this staff has been very effective, albeit very bland and vanilla.  I would have more respect if people just came out and said they didn't like Snyder's personality and brand of football rather than making stupid arguments about him not being effective in winning games.

What was my perspective?  I am curious what you think it is.

Is is really that controversial that there are better college football coaches out there than LHC LHC Bill Snyder?   I mean he is a good coach, a very good coach, a hall of fame coach in fact.  But there are other (soon to be) hall of fame coaches out there right now who are simply better right now. It shouldn't hurt your feelings to be able to admit that.  I swear its like talking with KU fans who think Bill Self is the only good college basketball coach and practically invented the game.

I'm not sure there is a better football coach.  Would Saban have won as much as Snyder in the last four years at K-State?  Meyer?  I'm not sure.  This can be flipped around, too.  I don't think Snyder would have won as much as Meyer or Saban at OSU or Bama.  The point being....Snyder is a perfect fit for K-State.  We are never going to be a recruiting powerhouse unless we cheat.  So, we need someone to make the best with what we can get.  There is such a thing as "fit," and Snyder is a perfect fit at KSU.

In any event, your point is moot unless the coaches that you think are better would actually come here.  I can see the argument that Meyer is a better coach than Snyder, but in the context of the current discussion it doesn't matter because Meyer isn't coming here.

Finally, even if Herman or Patterson or etc. could/would come in and win more than Snyder (I really doubt it, but it is possible and I concede that with no hurt feelngs), there is such a thing as timing.  Snyder is a K-State treasure.  You don't just run him out the door before he is ready based on a 6-6 season (or whatever).  That would destroy so much K-State goodwill associated with Snyder.  It is a completely different story if we are 5-7 next season.  But, I don't think it will get to that.