Dogs

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Words seem to have little effect compared to actions or patterns, in any aspect of her training #life.  There's certain times when I want her to sit (leashing up, taking a treat) and me saying "sit" doesn't seem to be the impetus compared to her just knowing what she should do or me gesturing.  Maybe the on-demand crap could be prompted by me preemptively taking out a bag, which would be ideal in that I'd be ready to go immediately after she does.

[ednksu]

I've read the pages, but I didn't see what type of pup?

I don't think you should be really approaching anything negative at this point if it's only been a week or two.  Depending on breed it can take a long while.  It seems like you are looking for a quick lesson for your pup to pick up on.  I assume she is pretty young?  Sorry if this was another page back.

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2-year-old lab w/a mystery mix of pug or sharpei or pit or others, maybe some cat.  Had her for a little over a month now.  She sidewalk-shat once about a week or so in, but that seemed understandable, as she was sick and having lots of side effects from some flea medicine.  But otherwise, her bathroom etiquette was great.  Then out of nowhere about 3-4 weeks in, she developed a pattern of while walking, just stopping and shitting on sidewalks without any sort of indicator she would. 

Since, I've been attempting to train the on-demand shitting, and so far it's been ineffective.  I've also been simply not taking her out of the courtyard until after she shits, which has "worked" in that she hasn't crap on a sidewalk (and possibly has even shown she's not going to), but isn't a great solution in that it limits when we can walk and forces walks when not wanted.  It also means that she's not shitting outside of courtyard world in any of the thousands of places that would be fine for her to.

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No success...

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Needing to get to a spot for the game, I ran her around the courtyard and even around the building to try to shake the crap loose.  Nope.  Out of time, walked her down towards the stadium among many seahawks fans going (marching?) that way too.  She crap in the middle of walking across a street and trailed it up onto the sidewalk.  Couldn't even pick it all up between the wetness and cars running over the street crap.  Humans were no help in the shame game.  Even the ones that stepped in the crap and subsequently saw the crap'r Payton were all "oh was that from youuuuuuuuu? Cute dog!!!" because she was in her 'hawks jersey.

So I apparently can't take her away from my building unless she happens to crap first.  crap on command isn't happening, and there's apparently no possible negative consequence for when she shits on concrete.  Seriously, if one of you people thinks you can fix this, let's work out a deal to have you come up and do so.  I'm sick of reading the internet about how this theoretically should be solved.

[KCFDcat]

Needing to get to a spot for the game, I ran her around the courtyard and even around the building to try to shake the crap loose.  Nope.  Out of time, walked her down towards the stadium among many seahawks fans going (marching?) that way too.  She crap in the middle of walking across a street and trailed it up onto the sidewalk.  Couldn't even pick it all up between the wetness and cars running over the street crap.  Humans were no help in the shame game.  Even the ones that stepped in the crap and subsequently saw the crap'r Payton were all "oh was that from youuuuuuuuu? Cute dog!!!" because she was in her 'hawks jersey.

So I apparently can't take her away from my building unless she happens to crap first.  crap on command isn't happening, and there's apparently no possible negative consequence for when she shits on concrete.  Seriously, if one of you people thinks you can fix this, let's work out a deal to have you come up and do so.  I'm sick of reading the internet about how this theoretically should be solved.

If it truly upsets you this much, I'd suggest hiring a dog trainer to work with her. We had one that worked with our dog for the entire first year of her life. Shes not perfect, but she's a hell of a lot better than most 2 yr old dogs.

Speaking of that, happy birthday to our two year old pup!

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If it truly upsets you this much, I'd suggest hiring a dog trainer to work with her.

I'd only be interested in a live-in trainer who stays until the job is 100% done and successful, and where in the meantime the trainer bears the brunt of cleaning up all sidewalk shits.  I obviously don't believe that that any training of how to theoretically solve the problem will affect her suddenly shitting on 1st avenue in real life.

[sys]

you just have to provide her with consistent, predictable responses to her actions.  it makes it harder to figure out if, from her point of view, reactions to actions aren't consistent.  no walks without shitting first.  not until she's ready.  let her off the leash in the courtyard.

if you want to punish the pavement shitting, i still think the picking her up method is the way to go.  it will look benign to random humans in the area, but she will hate it.  you could kick her in the neck instead.  she will hate that too, but you'll probably get arrested.  maybe better than punishing her is to keep a close eye on her when you suspect shitting.  usually dogs will give you a little bit of indication and that's your cue to run/drag her to some vegetation.

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no walks without shitting first.  not until she's ready.  let her off the leash in the courtyard.

 i still think the picking her up method is the way to go...maybe better than punishing her is to keep a close eye on her when you suspect shitting.  usually dogs will give you a little bit of indication and that's your cue to run/drag her to some vegetation.

I let her off leash in the courtyard all the time.  I don't see that it has any significant effect on crap'n.  The problem with the "no walks" concept in this training is that walks are the only alternative to bed #life.  Like, a walk isn't some fun outing, it's how we get anywhere.  So no walk means imprisonment.  I don't think this training concept works here.  For example, Saturday, we had no choice but to walk b/c out of time.  Tuesday, she has a bath appointment across downtown.  Am I to take her to the courtyard an hour early in the hopes she shits and I can reward her with the walk we have to take regardless and possibly end up there an hour early?  It all still depends currently on her whim to crap.  And I'm not even sure I want to warp her mind to crap only in the courtyard.  I want her to crap when she needs to crap, just in a dog appropriate spot.

I've been able to train sitting, shaking hands, getting in her shirts/coats, etc. because I can force those actions to happen and be able to reinforce them.  I can't force crap, and I certainly can't prevent crap.

No, there is no warning, no way to suspect shitting.  She walks like normal and then stops and shits.  This latest one was mid-crossing a street, so obviously no warning sign.

Like the hypothetical aggieville death trap sidewalk trees, downtown seattle has dog crap cutouts of the pavement ever-y-where, some even with city-provided shitbag dispensers.  That's ultimately the mystery: why in the courtyard when she shits, does she find the grassiest, most dignified green space to drop her load, yet in the real world, she foregoes all that for shitting in the worst spots possible among humans?

[IPA4Me]

Damn glad I never had a dog in an apartment. Way to much effort into a dog taking a dump.

Far easier at my house. Dog barks at door. Open door. Make sure she leaves front porch. Drink coffee until she scratches on door.

[KCFDcat]

no walks without shitting first.  not until she's ready.  let her off the leash in the courtyard.

 i still think the picking her up method is the way to go...maybe better than punishing her is to keep a close eye on her when you suspect shitting.  usually dogs will give you a little bit of indication and that's your cue to run/drag her to some vegetation.

I let her off leash in the courtyard all the time.  I don't see that it has any significant effect on crap'n.  The problem with the "no walks" concept in this training is that walks are the only alternative to bed #life.  Like, a walk isn't some fun outing, it's how we get anywhere.  So no walk means imprisonment.  I don't think this training concept works here.  For example, Saturday, we had no choice but to walk b/c out of time.  Tuesday, she has a bath appointment across downtown.  Am I to take her to the courtyard an hour early in the hopes she shits and I can reward her with the walk we have to take regardless and possibly end up there an hour early?  It all still depends currently on her whim to crap.  And I'm not even sure I want to warp her mind to crap only in the courtyard.  I want her to crap when she needs to crap, just in a dog appropriate spot.

I've been able to train sitting, shaking hands, getting in her shirts/coats, etc. because I can force those actions to happen and be able to reinforce them.  I can't force crap, and I certainly can't prevent crap.

No, there is no warning, no way to suspect shitting.  She walks like normal and then stops and shits.  This latest one was mid-crossing a street, so obviously no warning sign.

Like the hypothetical aggieville death trap sidewalk trees, downtown seattle has dog crap cutouts of the pavement ever-y-where, some even with city-provided shitbag dispensers.  That's ultimately the mystery: why in the courtyard when she shits, does she find the grassiest, most dignified green space to drop her load, yet in the real world, she foregoes all that for shitting in the worst spots possible among humans?

I'm guessing some of this behavior may be from anxiety or something. Like she gets super anxious around a large groups of people and feels the need to drop a deuce.

I'm definitely no dog whisperer, so take that fwiw

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I'm guessing some of this behavior may be from anxiety or something. Like she gets super anxious around a large groups of people and feels the need to drop a deuce.

I've considered that but there's no consistency to the theory.  She didn't do it the first 3 weeks or so, and even the first few times she's done it, it's been with few people around (just on a spot that would be heavily marched on by people).

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Took her out to the courtyard this morning, she crap, we celebrated, treats.  Went out for the reward walk where she w/o warning crap on the sidewalk.

[star seed 7]

 

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I'd rather sys come pak here for 2 weeks and fix all this, but if it doesn't solve itself by next weekend and after the foster mom comes over and gives any advice, I'll get in touch with one of these people.  Probably skip over the classes and just go right to paying a shitload of money to have them come to my place.

http://www.downtowndoglounge.com/dog-training.htm

http://www.soundanimals.com/index.html

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New data point: last night, she shat in the courtyard before we headed out.  Ended up being at the bar longer than planned, and at one point she started barking at the door.  She rarely barks, and it's usually been b/c she wants to go to the bathroom.  So I leash her up and we go out, and she leads us on a run back to the courtyard where she pisses and shits.  Along the way, passes up plenty of spots that would've been good to piss/crap in as well as obviously the sidewalk she was sprinting on.

Not related to crap, I then went to put her to bed like she was indicating she wanted, but when she saw me going back out to the bar, she hopped up and insisted on coming too. 

Then once back at home, she woke me up w/barking that I think was prompted by the night staff sliding something under my door, as when we went outside, she just pissed a tiny amount and went right back up to bed.

I think whatever is causing the sidewalk shits is some undetectable (to me) psychological thing that is happening at those moments.

[Mrs. Gooch]

This lends itself to my burgeoning theory that she is giving clues about the upcoming sidewalk shits and you just aren't paying enough attention.

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This lends itself to my burgeoning theory that she is giving clues about the upcoming sidewalk shits and you just aren't paying enough attention.

If something unnatural happening scares you and you jump or scream, what was the clue that you were about to jump or scream?

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Tuesday, she has a bath appointment across downtown.  Am I to take her to the courtyard an hour early in the hopes she shits and I can reward her with the walk we have to take regardless and possibly end up there an hour early?  It all still depends currently on her whim to crap.  And I'm not even sure I want to warp her mind to crap only in the courtyard.  I want her to crap when she needs to crap, just in a dog appropriate spot.

...

That's ultimately the mystery: why in the courtyard when she shits, does she find the grassiest, most dignified green space to drop her load, yet in the real world, she foregoes all that for shitting in the worst spots possible among humans?

Latest data point: took her to the courtyard way early before the aforementioned appointment.  No piss, no crap.  She'd pissed in the morning.  Cautiously walked her to the appointment w/o incident.  Pushed my luck after I picked her up by going even further from my place to a bar I knew allowed dogs.  Not long after leaving there, and after she passed up plenty of grass/tree things, she started shitting while walking on the sidewalk.  I was able to pull her over a bit to the parking lot we were adjacent to, but she still left some nuggets on the sidewalk, and it's not like the parking lot was that better of a spot.

But for her having sidewalk crap that time this week after courtyard crap'n, I'd know the problem is what I laid out above.  Whatever it is, it's out of my skillset.  Time to throw money at this situation.  It'll be a hell of an email I send to the trainer prospects.

[KCFDcat]

Tuesday, she has a bath appointment across downtown.  Am I to take her to the courtyard an hour early in the hopes she shits and I can reward her with the walk we have to take regardless and possibly end up there an hour early?  It all still depends currently on her whim to crap.  And I'm not even sure I want to warp her mind to crap only in the courtyard.  I want her to crap when she needs to crap, just in a dog appropriate spot.

...

That's ultimately the mystery: why in the courtyard when she shits, does she find the grassiest, most dignified green space to drop her load, yet in the real world, she foregoes all that for shitting in the worst spots possible among humans?

Latest data point: took her to the courtyard way early before the aforementioned appointment.  No piss, no crap.  She'd pissed in the morning.  Cautiously walked her to the appointment w/o incident.  Pushed my luck after I picked her up by going even further from my place to a bar I knew allowed dogs.  Not long after leaving there, and after she passed up plenty of grass/tree things, she started shitting while walking on the sidewalk.  I was able to pull her over a bit to the parking lot we were adjacent to, but she still left some nuggets on the sidewalk, and it's not like the parking lot was that better of a spot.

But for her having sidewalk crap that time this week after courtyard crap'n, I'd know the problem is what I laid out above.  Whatever it is, it's out of my skillset.  Time to throw money at this situation.  It'll be a hell of an email I send to the trainer prospects.

I think we're gonna need to see a transcript of this email. I'm pretty hooked on the sidewalk shitting storyline TBH

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I think we're gonna need to see a transcript of this email. I'm pretty hooked on the sidewalk shitting storyline TBH

Something like:

"Hi.  I'm not interested in any of your classes or anything.  My dog behaves adequately in every area except one - she shits on the sidewalk while walking sometimes and there's no discernible rhyme or reason to it.  Please quote me your rates on coming to my house for as long as it takes to figure this out and get it fixed up.  T-Y."

[puniraptor]

any decent dog trainer should be smart enough to run from this. good luck with the freaks.

also, you should include a link to this thread in your email.

[sys]

i know a trainer in the seattle area.  she does stuff like this i think, not obedience stuff mostly.  kinda flaky, but most trainers seem to be.  christine hibbard.

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i know a trainer in the seattle area.  she does stuff like this i think, not obedience stuff mostly.  kinda flaky, but most trainers seem to be.  christine hibbard.

Looked her up. Not sure she's still at the place google shows, as she's not listed on their website, but that place looks like just what I'm looking for. I'll give them a shout.

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Sometimes I think she reads this blog while I'm sleeping and sees I'm on the verge of forcing her into some flaky remedial training and accordingly puts on an all-star performance the next day to stave it off.