What could have been done to stop this madness?

[Panjandrum]

They'll do something, then Pac12 will say "no thanks rednecks"

Maybe.

Hey, if there is a chance that we go to the ACC in some pod, fine.  If there's a chance to go to the Big East, fine.  If there's a chance we go to the Pac-12, fine.  I can see the benefits of pretty much every conference.

[chum1]

I know a lot of people want to blame Bebee, but really he couldn't stop this.

What if Larry Scott had taken charge a couple of years ago?  It was Bebee's job to keep all 12 schools in the Big 12 happy.  There are seriously lots of people who could have pulled that off.

[michigancat]

I know a lot of people want to blame Bebee, but really he couldn't stop this.

What if Larry Scott had taken charge a couple of years ago?  It was Bebee's job to keep all 12 schools in the Big 12 happy.  There are seriously lots of people who could have pulled that off.

I mostly agree, but it's possible that Beebe never had a chance. Everyone says Weiberg tried to do the Big 12 network, got shot down and that's why he left. By then I guess you could say the damage was done.

[Panjandrum]

I love to mock people that pine for the old Big 8 like it would still be around today in it's previous form had the SWC merger not gone down.  What a shitty conference made up of exclusively loser states.  Can you imagine the horrible TV deal the old Big 8 would have in today's environment?

I don't pine for the Big 8.  I just think that merging two conferences killed the identity of both and created a purely business relationship that ultimately lead to where we are now as opposed to the ACC acquiring some schools from the Big East, or the big 10 or Pac acquiring schools from us.

Once they just blew it all up and moved the conference to Dallas, it was all over.  It's like the Big 8 and SWC never existed.  We were all just collecting checks.  Which is fine, but it's just what got us here.

[Boakai]

I'm not sure anything could have been done really.

What is the end game of unequal sharing of revenue? What is the eventual goal of complete domination with unchallenged, influential control over your conference peers? In the corporate world you would just buy out a rival company, or force a competitor out of the market altogether. In the world of college football that would obviously be bad for business, and I think the only conference not to figure that out is the Big 12.

The death of the big 12 is basically a bi-product of all the virtues that they wanted to build into the system. Those that dominate and build a dynasty reap the rewards regardless of the detriment to the league. ("Hey it's not our fault if you can't compete. This is the way the world works.") Both the Big 8, and the SWC were psychologically set up for failure long before the conference was formed, because they didn't understand the difference between a corporate business model and the world of sports.   

[CHONGS]

I know a lot of people want to blame Bebee, but really he couldn't stop this.

What if Larry Scott had taken charge a couple of years ago?  It was Bebee's job to keep all 12 schools in the Big 12 happy.  There are seriously lots of people who could have pulled that off.

I guess I just don't think that's the case.  I don't see how he could have got a better TV deal.

[steve dave]

I love to mock people that pine for the old Big 8 like it would still be around today in it's previous form had the SWC merger not gone down.  What a shitty conference made up of exclusively loser states.  Can you imagine the horrible TV deal the old Big 8 would have in today's environment?

I don't pine for the Big 8.  I just think that merging two conferences killed the identity of both and created a purely business relationship that ultimately lead to where we are now as opposed to the ACC acquiring some schools from the Big East, or the big 10 or Pac acquiring schools from us.

Once they just blew it all up and moved the conference to Dallas, it was all over.  It's like the Big 8 and SWC never existed.  We were all just collecting checks.  Which is fine, but it's just what got us here.

yeah, I wasn't refering to your post, just to people in general.  

[michigancat]

I love to mock people that pine for the old Big 8 like it would still be around today in it's previous form had the SWC merger not gone down.  What a shitty conference made up of exclusively loser states.  Can you imagine the horrible TV deal the old Big 8 would have in today's environment?

I don't pine for the Big 8.  I just think that merging two conferences killed the identity of both and created a purely business relationship that ultimately lead to where we are now as opposed to the ACC acquiring some schools from the Big East, or the big 10 or Pac acquiring schools from us.

Once they just blew it all up and moved the conference to Dallas, it was all over.  It's like the Big 8 and SWC never existed.  We were all just collecting checks.  Which is fine, but it's just what got us here.

the fact that people still whine about the location of the HQ just reminds me how utterly Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) conference realignment discussion/speculation is.

But I can't look away.

[Panjandrum]

I know a lot of people want to blame Bebee, but really he couldn't stop this.

What if Larry Scott had taken charge a couple of years ago?  It was Bebee's job to keep all 12 schools in the Big 12 happy.  There are seriously lots of people who could have pulled that off.

I guess I just don't think that's the case.  I don't see how he could have got a better TV deal.

The by-laws prevented us from doing anything that benefited the conference as a whole over OU/UT/A&M/NU.  Any major change required a 9 member majority vote, and that group could trump anything that wasn't in their best interest.

NU was a major roadblock to getting the Big 12 Network created.  Huge.  Which is why their outrage last year was beyond comical and moved into the absurd category.

[CHONGS]

I love to mock people that pine for the old Big 8 like it would still be around today in it's previous form had the SWC merger not gone down.  What a shitty conference made up of exclusively loser states.  Can you imagine the horrible TV deal the old Big 8 would have in today's environment?

I don't pine for the Big 8.  I just think that merging two conferences killed the identity of both and created a purely business relationship that ultimately lead to where we are now as opposed to the ACC acquiring some schools from the Big East, or the big 10 or Pac acquiring schools from us.

Once they just blew it all up and moved the conference to Dallas, it was all over.  It's like the Big 8 and SWC never existed.  We were all just collecting checks.  Which is fine, but it's just what got us here.

The Big XII could never have acquired anyone worth value other than more texas schools (and their value is dubious).  It was boxed in.

[Panjandrum]

I love to mock people that pine for the old Big 8 like it would still be around today in it's previous form had the SWC merger not gone down.  What a shitty conference made up of exclusively loser states.  Can you imagine the horrible TV deal the old Big 8 would have in today's environment?

I don't pine for the Big 8.  I just think that merging two conferences killed the identity of both and created a purely business relationship that ultimately lead to where we are now as opposed to the ACC acquiring some schools from the Big East, or the big 10 or Pac acquiring schools from us.

Once they just blew it all up and moved the conference to Dallas, it was all over.  It's like the Big 8 and SWC never existed.  We were all just collecting checks.  Which is fine, but it's just what got us here.

the fact that people still whine about the location of the HQ just reminds me how utterly Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) conference realignment discussion/speculation is.

But I can't look away.

It doesn't matter that they moved it to Dallas.  It's just that they moved it.

All I'm saying is that they just started over.  It's not some conspiracy that they moved it to Texas or anything like that.  They could have moved it to Des Moines and it still would have had the same effect.

[Panjandrum]

I love to mock people that pine for the old Big 8 like it would still be around today in it's previous form had the SWC merger not gone down.  What a shitty conference made up of exclusively loser states.  Can you imagine the horrible TV deal the old Big 8 would have in today's environment?

I don't pine for the Big 8.  I just think that merging two conferences killed the identity of both and created a purely business relationship that ultimately lead to where we are now as opposed to the ACC acquiring some schools from the Big East, or the big 10 or Pac acquiring schools from us.

Once they just blew it all up and moved the conference to Dallas, it was all over.  It's like the Big 8 and SWC never existed.  We were all just collecting checks.  Which is fine, but it's just what got us here.

The Big XII could never have acquired anyone worth value other than more texas schools (and their value is dubious).  It was boxed in.

Agreed.  It was a sound move in 1994-1995.

It probably would have remained a sound move had the economics of college football not completely changed in a 15 year time span.

[chum1]

I know a lot of people want to blame Bebee, but really he couldn't stop this.

What if Larry Scott had taken charge a couple of years ago?  It was Bebee's job to keep all 12 schools in the Big 12 happy.  There are seriously lots of people who could have pulled that off.

I guess I just don't think that's the case.  I don't see how he could have got a better TV deal.

yeah, it's not about that.  the bottom line is that people weren't getting along and bebee failed to smooth things over and get people excited about an exciting future of the big 12.

[SleepFighter]

I love to mock people that pine for the old Big 8 like it would still be around today in it's previous form had the SWC merger not gone down.  What a shitty conference made up of exclusively loser states.  Can you imagine the horrible TV deal the old Big 8 would have in today's environment?

I don't pine for the Big 8.  I just think that merging two conferences killed the identity of both and created a purely business relationship that ultimately lead to where we are now as opposed to the ACC acquiring some schools from the Big East, or the big 10 or Pac acquiring schools from us.

Once they just blew it all up and moved the conference to Dallas, it was all over.  It's like the Big 8 and SWC never existed.  We were all just collecting checks.  Which is fine, but it's just what got us here.

The Big XII could never have acquired anyone worth value other than more texas schools (and their value is dubious).  It was boxed in.

BYU/Utah?  Louisville/Cinci?

[kso_FAN]

I think that when this conference merged with the members of the SWC (and I user merger as opposed to acquisition because it truly was a merger), all of the historical ties that other conferences seem to leverage and bank on for stability went out the window.  It went from a conference held together by decades of membership and rivalry to a large business entity where each of the member schools seemed to really only care about their individual fortunes (or in the case of OU, another school), and when some schools started to thrive (OU, UT), and some started to plateau or drop off (NU, A&M), it made the decision easy to part ways because it was really about business, and none of the truly major players in the conference really had any care or concern for each other.  They had formed a cartel to try and wrestle competitive control of the conference, but when a couple of the members of that cartel got too strong, the others bolted, and then the third started entertaining the option because it was really obvious as this thing evolved who really had all of the strength.

UT drove this conference to where it is now because Deloss Dodds was a fantastic AD who understood the value of Texas athletics, and used the system to squeeze every dime he could out of the situation.  UT is being penalized because they were really, really good at the business side of athletics, and the rest of the schools want to flee the monster they created.

Really well said. The Pac 12, SEC, Big 10, and ACC all had those long relationships. Not surpringly they are in the strongest positions, especially the first 3.

[MadCat]

I think that when this conference merged with the members of the SWC (and I user merger as opposed to acquisition because it truly was a merger), all of the historical ties that other conferences seem to leverage and bank on for stability went out the window.  It went from a conference held together by decades of membership and rivalry to a large business entity where each of the member schools seemed to really only care about their individual fortunes (or in the case of OU, another school), and when some schools started to thrive (OU, UT), and some started to plateau or drop off (NU, A&M), it made the decision easy to part ways because it was really about business, and none of the truly major players in the conference really had any care or concern for each other.  They had formed a cartel to try and wrestle competitive control of the conference, but when a couple of the members of that cartel got too strong, the others bolted, and then the third started entertaining the option because it was really obvious as this thing evolved who really had all of the strength.

UT drove this conference to where it is now because Deloss Dodds was a fantastic AD who understood the value of Texas athletics, and used the system to squeeze every dime he could out of the situation.  UT is being penalized because they were really, really good at the business side of athletics, and the rest of the schools want to flee the monster they created.

Really well said. The Pac 12, SEC, Big 10, and ACC all had those long relationships. Not surpringly they are in the strongest positions, especially the first 3.

Is this what is holding the ACC together now?  It sounds like other conferences are having a hard time luring their schools away despite the crappy media contracts.

[kso_FAN]

Is this what is holding the ACC together now?  It sounds like other conferences are having a hard time luring their schools away despite the crappy media contracts.

Perhaps a bit, but right now its clear the Big 12 is ripest to pick from. Of course if the Maryland/Big 10 talk is legit, then that could change quickly. The next conference to go is likely the Big East though, unless of course they make a play to pick up the Big 12 leftovers (hopefully us included) to stabilize their league and strengthen the football side.

[fatty fat fat]

We are a poor school that isn't very respected academically. Like high school, other schools don't want to be associated with us. Same goes for a lot of these schools in the plains.

You'd hope the "richer" schools would appreciate the mission of our schools, but they'd rather be associated with bigger and better.

[Panjandrum]

I think that when this conference merged with the members of the SWC (and I user merger as opposed to acquisition because it truly was a merger), all of the historical ties that other conferences seem to leverage and bank on for stability went out the window.  It went from a conference held together by decades of membership and rivalry to a large business entity where each of the member schools seemed to really only care about their individual fortunes (or in the case of OU, another school), and when some schools started to thrive (OU, UT), and some started to plateau or drop off (NU, A&M), it made the decision easy to part ways because it was really about business, and none of the truly major players in the conference really had any care or concern for each other.  They had formed a cartel to try and wrestle competitive control of the conference, but when a couple of the members of that cartel got too strong, the others bolted, and then the third started entertaining the option because it was really obvious as this thing evolved who really had all of the strength.

UT drove this conference to where it is now because Deloss Dodds was a fantastic AD who understood the value of Texas athletics, and used the system to squeeze every dime he could out of the situation.  UT is being penalized because they were really, really good at the business side of athletics, and the rest of the schools want to flee the monster they created.

Really well said. The Pac 12, SEC, Big 10, and ACC all had those long relationships. Not surpringly they are in the strongest positions, especially the first 3.

Is this what is holding the ACC together now?  It sounds like other conferences are having a hard time luring their schools away despite the crappy media contracts.

A few things...

The most desirable schools in the realignment process are VT and UNC, and both of them really want to be in the ACC.  UNC because they were a driving force in creating it (and act as the UT of their conference in having a good deal of influence), and VT because they were longing for it for decades like Mizzou longed for the big 10.  It took political crowbaring by the Virginia legislature to get VT into the ACC during the Big East acquisition phase, so the likelihood of them bolting is rather low considering how difficult it was to get them in there in the first place.

FSU and Clemson are being held in check because, academically, they aren't up to par in the big 10, and the SEC's gentleman's agreement that they won't offer schools already in the footprint.  That may change when things get crazy, but that agreement is giving the ACC time to circle the wagons and fend off raiders, which they are currently doing.

I think the most likely candidate to bold would be Maryland, but that's just because scuttlebutt on the Interwebs has them as expansion target #2 behind ND for the big 10.

[michigancat]

I think NC State would really be attractive to the SEC. Much more than MU and WVU. Not sure why that doesn't get more play.

[nicname]

A less greedy UT who was willing to make a few consessions for the good of the whole. IMHO that's really it. Granted, you can blame the other schools for getting Texas-envy and bolting, but at the end of the day UT had the control to keep this thing together and they chose not to make any concessions when they could have still saved the conference. That said, I can't blame UT for trying to milk this thing for all its worth, especially since they'll likely be fine (at least financially) in the long run, but they initiated the destruction.

I agree with this for the most part, but I think a lot of the blame has to go on NU, OU, ATM.  All four of these schools wanted to be the big boy in the sandbox, and voted in accordance with those wishes.  Then the little 3 got pissed and left.  If, in the beginning those 3 plus the rest of the schools banned together for equal revenue sharing (outside of tier 3), centralized offices, etc. I think we could have steered Texas into a stronger Big 12.  

[fatty fat fat]

I think that when this conference merged with the members of the SWC (and I user merger as opposed to acquisition because it truly was a merger), all of the historical ties that other conferences seem to leverage and bank on for stability went out the window.  It went from a conference held together by decades of membership and rivalry to a large business entity where each of the member schools seemed to really only care about their individual fortunes (or in the case of OU, another school), and when some schools started to thrive (OU, UT), and some started to plateau or drop off (NU, A&M), it made the decision easy to part ways because it was really about business, and none of the truly major players in the conference really had any care or concern for each other.  They had formed a cartel to try and wrestle competitive control of the conference, but when a couple of the members of that cartel got too strong, the others bolted, and then the third started entertaining the option because it was really obvious as this thing evolved who really had all of the strength.

UT drove this conference to where it is now because Deloss Dodds was a fantastic AD who understood the value of Texas athletics, and used the system to squeeze every dime he could out of the situation.  UT is being penalized because they were really, really good at the business side of athletics, and the rest of the schools want to flee the monster they created.

Really well said. The Pac 12, SEC, Big 10, and ACC all had those long relationships. Not surpringly they are in the strongest positions, especially the first 3.

Is this what is holding the ACC together now?  It sounds like other conferences are having a hard time luring their schools away despite the crappy media contracts.

A few things...

The most desirable schools in the realignment process are VT and UNC, and both of them really want to be in the ACC.  UNC because they were a driving force in creating it (and act as the UT of their conference in having a good deal of influence), and VT because they were longing for it for decades like Mizzou longed for the big 10.  It took political crowbaring by the Virginia legislature to get VT into the ACC during the Big East acquisition phase, so the likelihood of them bolting is rather low considering how difficult it was to get them in there in the first place.

FSU and Clemson are being held in check because, academically, they aren't up to par in the big 10, and the SEC's gentleman's agreement that they won't offer schools already in the footprint.  That may change when things get crazy, but that agreement is giving the ACC time to circle the wagons and fend off raiders, which they are currently doing.

I think the most likely candidate to bold would be Maryland, but that's just because scuttlebutt on the Interwebs has them as expansion target #2 behind ND for the big 10.

God, I hate every one of your posts. EVERY SINGLE ONE.

big 10. You f*cking dork.

[Panjandrum]

I think NC State would really be attractive to the SEC. Much more than MU and WVU. Not sure why that doesn't get more play.

Depends if the NC contingency will let them leave.

I don't think Duke and UNC would be very happy if the other member of their trio started getting SEC money rained on them and have the sole designation of being the NC school in the SEC.

[Panjandrum]

I think that when this conference merged with the members of the SWC (and I user merger as opposed to acquisition because it truly was a merger), all of the historical ties that other conferences seem to leverage and bank on for stability went out the window.  It went from a conference held together by decades of membership and rivalry to a large business entity where each of the member schools seemed to really only care about their individual fortunes (or in the case of OU, another school), and when some schools started to thrive (OU, UT), and some started to plateau or drop off (NU, A&M), it made the decision easy to part ways because it was really about business, and none of the truly major players in the conference really had any care or concern for each other.  They had formed a cartel to try and wrestle competitive control of the conference, but when a couple of the members of that cartel got too strong, the others bolted, and then the third started entertaining the option because it was really obvious as this thing evolved who really had all of the strength.

UT drove this conference to where it is now because Deloss Dodds was a fantastic AD who understood the value of Texas athletics, and used the system to squeeze every dime he could out of the situation.  UT is being penalized because they were really, really good at the business side of athletics, and the rest of the schools want to flee the monster they created.

Really well said. The Pac 12, SEC, Big 10, and ACC all had those long relationships. Not surpringly they are in the strongest positions, especially the first 3.

Is this what is holding the ACC together now?  It sounds like other conferences are having a hard time luring their schools away despite the crappy media contracts.

A few things...

The most desirable schools in the realignment process are VT and UNC, and both of them really want to be in the ACC.  UNC because they were a driving force in creating it (and act as the UT of their conference in having a good deal of influence), and VT because they were longing for it for decades like Mizzou longed for the big 10.  It took political crowbaring by the Virginia legislature to get VT into the ACC during the Big East acquisition phase, so the likelihood of them bolting is rather low considering how difficult it was to get them in there in the first place.

FSU and Clemson are being held in check because, academically, they aren't up to par in the big 10, and the SEC's gentleman's agreement that they won't offer schools already in the footprint.  That may change when things get crazy, but that agreement is giving the ACC time to circle the wagons and fend off raiders, which they are currently doing.

I think the most likely candidate to bold would be Maryland, but that's just because scuttlebutt on the Interwebs has them as expansion target #2 behind ND for the big 10.

God, I hate every one of your posts. EVERY SINGLE ONE.

big 10. You f*cking dork.

It's faster than typing Big Ten.

Love you fats.   

[michigancat]

I think NC State would really be attractive to the SEC. Much more than MU and WVU. Not sure why that doesn't get more play.

Depends if the NC contingency will let them leave.

I don't think Duke and UNC would be very happy if the other member of their trio started getting SEC money rained on them and have the sole designation of being the NC school in the SEC.

I don't think Duke and UNC would have a choice. Besides, they already put NC State in another division.