Coaching Carousel Master Thread (MAYBE FEATURING THE KSU CATS?)

[chum1]

if the story of frank's agenda is going home to miami vs. getting every dime he can, i believe the former. 

[steve dave]

if the story of frank's agenda is going home to miami vs. getting every dime he can, i believe the former. 

unfortunately for frank, currie doesn't seem to be as gullible

[WillieWatanabe]

if the story of frank's agenda is going home to miami vs. getting every dime he can, i believe the former. 

I hate when people use this phrase. I always get confused.

[5601js]

Again, the fact that Miami doesn't even want a whiff of Frank's nut sack says all you need to know about the perception of Frank and K-State.  You are a poor man's NC State.

While your opinion may be viewed as true in some circles, I highly doubt UNC and Duke fans spend as much time on the NC State Boards as their own because they really do view them as being pretty much an afterthought.
One would think that if this theory about KSU is true, we wouldn't have KU fans like yourself setting up camp on our site.

But here you are.

[chum1]

if the story of frank's agenda is going home to miami vs. getting every dime he can, i believe the former. 

unfortunately for frank, currie doesn't seem to be as gullible

false dilemma.  currie could both believe that and know that miami doesn't want frank.  and that's assuming that currie cares to keep him.

there's really an awful lot of dream job smoke.  if frank's good enough to plant all of it, why would he then go and make a major eff up?  additionally, frank has turned down offers of more money before.  why do that if he's out for every dime?

[MadCat]

if the story of frank's agenda is going home to miami vs. getting every dime he can, i believe the former. 

I hate when people use this phrase. I always get confused.

Use this handy guide:  Former Latter

[steve dave]

if the story of frank's agenda is going home to miami vs. getting every dime he can, i believe the former. 

unfortunately for frank, currie doesn't seem to be as gullible

false dilemma.  currie could both believe that and know that miami doesn't want frank.  and that's assuming that currie cares to keep him.

there's really an awful lot of dream job smoke.  if frank's good enough to plant all of it, why would he then go and make a major eff up?  additionally, frank has turned down offers of more money before.  why do that if he's out for every dime?

because he didn't know how to handle the situation.  there was a lot of planted info out there the last round of contract negotiations and it was done much better because there were actual offers.  it sucks, because i like frank.  i don't believe he's out for max money, i believe he's out for max k-state money.  unfortunately, the way he handled the opening and miami's laughing in his face he's not going to get max ksu money.  he should have really waited for another legitimate offer of more money to come out before he blew his load all over the media.  would have held a lot more water in contract talks.  now john currie gets to smile from across the table at him and shake his head.  i hate to think about that but it's the position frank has put himself in.  

[Panjandrum]

if the story of frank's agenda is going home to miami vs. getting every dime he can, i believe the former. 

unfortunately for frank, currie doesn't seem to be as gullible

false dilemma.  currie could both believe that and know that miami doesn't want frank.  and that's assuming that currie cares to keep him.

there's really an awful lot of dream job smoke.  if frank's good enough to plant all of it, why would he then go and make a major eff up?  additionally, frank has turned down offers of more money before.  why do that if he's out for every dime?

He didn't want to coach at DePaul (no one does), and last year's Oregon search showed no one wants to coach there either.  He can talk about challenges, but the truth is that everyone wants to make the same amount (or more) at an easier job where they're more comfortable.  And he's comfortable here; he already has things moving in the right direction.

I'm personally of the belief that Frank may be interested in other positions, but his family is happy where they are.  I'm thinking that as long as it's tolerable here, and he feels that he's fairly compensated, he will actually stay for a pretty long time (unless a really good job like Florida opens). There's no reason to take a lateral move to another BCS school unless he feels like he's been really, really wronged.

And I think, right now, he feels wronged because Anderson and Kruger are making WAY more than they should, and Currie is playing tight with the money (while his predecessors did not do that).  That's probably exacerbating an already strained relationship, which caused an exponential increase in butthurt.

I'm in the _FAN/sd camp that says Frank's feeling a lot of butthurt right now because Miami hasn't showed on shred of real interest in him, and KSU isn't interested in paying him "market value".  As of right now, I think our coaching situation is pretty stable, but going into next year, I think there's a pretty good chance that Frank will remember all of this butthurt and seriously consider other offers (if they come).

[steve dave]

but going into next year, I think there's a pretty good chance that Frank will remember all of this butthurt and seriously consider other offers (if they come).

frank is freaking out about contract talks now because he knows we may have a down year next season.  no offers and fewer wins makes for a happy john currie (in the short term).  hopefully frank out performs our talent and gets more money.

[michigancat]

Frank is quite simply a coach that isn't good enough for a blue blood job but has built himself a situation that is better for him than virtually any non-blue blood job (Miami being the obvious exception, and they didn't even want to call him).

[Panjandrum]

but going into next year, I think there's a pretty good chance that Frank will remember all of this butthurt and seriously consider other offers (if they come).

frank is freaking out about contract talks now because he knows we may have a down year next season.  no offers and fewer wins makes for a happy john currie (in the short term).  hopefully frank out performs our talent and gets more money.

We're going to hear some weird twitter leaks about Frank being connected to some WTF jobs next year to try and figure out how to get another extension/raise.

If we do have a down year, Frank is here for two more years, or until he rights the ship.  But after that, once he has a good year, assuming Currie is still here, I think he bails because he feels so wronged.

But, by then, Pearl won't have a show clause and will probably be ready to step off of the party boat and back into college basketball to clear his good name, so it's all good.

[steve dave]

but going into next year, I think there's a pretty good chance that Frank will remember all of this butthurt and seriously consider other offers (if they come).

frank is freaking out about contract talks now because he knows we may have a down year next season.  no offers and fewer wins makes for a happy john currie (in the short term).  hopefully frank out performs our talent and gets more money.

We're going to hear some weird twitter leaks about Frank being connected to some WTF jobs next year to try and figure out how to get another extension/raise.

If we do have a down year, Frank is here for two more years, or until he rights the ship.  But after that, once he has a good year, assuming Currie is still here, I think he bails because he feels so wronged.

But, by then, Pearl won't have a show clause and will probably be ready to step off of the party boat and back into college basketball to clear his good name, so it's all good.

I'm really not concerned about any of that

[kso_FAN]

if the story of frank's agenda is going home to miami vs. getting every dime he can, i believe the former. 

unfortunately for frank, currie doesn't seem to be as gullible

false dilemma.  currie could both believe that and know that miami doesn't want frank.  and that's assuming that currie cares to keep him.

there's really an awful lot of dream job smoke.  if frank's good enough to plant all of it, why would he then go and make a major eff up?  additionally, frank has turned down offers of more money before.  why do that if he's out for every dime?

He didn't want to coach at DePaul (no one does), and last year's Oregon search showed no one wants to coach there either.  He can talk about challenges, but the truth is that everyone wants to make the same amount (or more) at an easier job where they're more comfortable.  And he's comfortable here; he already has things moving in the right direction.

I'm personally of the belief that Frank may be interested in other positions, but his family is happy where they are.  I'm thinking that as long as it's tolerable here, and he feels that he's fairly compensated, he will actually stay for a pretty long time (unless a really good job like Florida opens). There's no reason to take a lateral move to another BCS school unless he feels like he's been really, really wronged.

And I think, right now, he feels wronged because Anderson and Kruger are making WAY more than they should, and Currie is playing tight with the money (while his predecessors did not do that).  That's probably exacerbating an already strained relationship, which caused an exponential increase in butthurt.

I'm in the _FAN/sd camp that says Frank's feeling a lot of butthurt right now because Miami hasn't showed on shred of real interest in him, and KSU isn't interested in paying him "market value".  As of right now, I think our coaching situation is pretty stable, but going into next year, I think there's a pretty good chance that Frank will remember all of this butthurt and seriously consider other offers (if they come).

I love Frank, but he has consistently shown that he has a big ego. I'm good with that, almost all successful coaches do, its part of the deal. I do think Frank is just pretty unique in how he handles his ego and I think Tucker was accurate when he said Frank was "insecure". I think him making an unusual call to Babb in early February when things looked bleak shows this, as did the sort of weird interviews with Brando and Tucker. There is no doubt he wanted to get his information out there in some capacity, but I think it changed from the Brando interview to the Tucker interview. Its possible if Miami gave him an offer he couldn't refuse that he would go there, but I don't think that is happening (and I don't think it ever was) but Frank still at least wanted the opportunity to say no. And as it become clear to him it wasn't going to happen in typical Frank fashion he got a bit paranoid as to why it didn't, and I think that contributed to the comments to Tucker much more than any desire to really go to Miami. In part Miami not reaching out to him b/c of his persona and his past in Miami only confirmed complaints some K-State fans had and what the media said when he was hired. I'm sure he thought he was past that, but its clear he is not, at least in Miami.

My opinion on this is just based on how Frank has handled things in the past and was only confirmed by listening to BITB interview Tucker yesterday.

[steve dave]

I think him making an unusual call to Babb in early February

frank knew babb was working on a piece that was going to shed him in bad light and that is why he called him

[kso_FAN]

I think him making an unusual call to Babb in early February

frank knew babb was working on a piece that was going to shed him in bad light and that is why he called him

Yeah, because he's crazy paranoid.

[unleashthemob]

Bottom line, the whole thing makes Frank look like a complete fool regardless...shows that all his talk about life and choices is nothing more than a bunch of bullshit. He talks about honesty and integration but then talks out of both sides of his mouth, feels hurt yet doesn't want to hurt what made him...eff it, I'd have alot more respect for him if he'd just come out and tell the truth. He used kstate as a stepping stone, he can talk all the BS he would like, but its no different than prince. Prince failed, Frank succeeded. Frank doesn't give a rats ass about kstate, he only cares about himself, and to be honest there isn't anything wrong with that, but like I said, I'd have more respect for him if he'd just say it so we can send him packing and find someone who really does want to be here. Although Snyder has sorta ran his course, and the times have caught up with him, I do thiink the guy actually cared about kstate, and I know people will say that if he cared he'd get the eff out...that is true but honestly that time is coming real soon and im at least willing to see what this years team does before going nuts...at least were not a pre season #3 projected to win the big 12 favorite only to dic flop our way into the dance on the back of jake in football, Frank wont have Jake, and he knows his smoke and mirrors in the big 12 are about to come to a end so, I for one do not want anyone who doesn't want to be here...good luck...please leave

[steve dave]

Bottom line, the whole thing makes Frank look like a complete fool regardless...shows that all his talk about life and choices is nothing more than a bunch of bullshit. He talks about honesty and integration but then talks out of both sides of his mouth, feels hurt yet doesn't want to hurt what made him...eff it, I'd have alot more respect for him if he'd just come out and tell the truth. He used kstate as a stepping stone, he can talk all the BS he would like, but its no different than prince. Prince failed, Frank succeeded. Frank doesn't give a rats ass about kstate, he only cares about himself, and to be honest there isn't anything wrong with that, but like I said, I'd have more respect for him if he'd just say it so we can send him packing and find someone who really does want to be here. Although Snyder has sorta ran his course, and the times have caught up with him, I do thiink the guy actually cared about kstate, and I know people will say that if he cared he'd get the eff out...that is true but honestly that time is coming real soon and im at least willing to see what this years team does before going nuts...at least were not a pre season #3 projected to win the big 12 favorite only to dic flop our way into the dance on the back of jake in football, Frank wont have Jake, and he knows his smoke and mirrors in the big 12 are about to come to a end so, I for one do not want anyone who doesn't want to be here...good luck...please leave

 

[WillieWatanabe]

I think him making an unusual call to Babb in early February

frank knew babb was working on a piece that was going to shed him in bad light and that is why he called him

Yeah, because he's crazy paranoid.

Babb brought this up after the "what a joke" blow up.

[OK_Cat]

i'm completely on board with the thought that Frank is doing all of this as a recruiting tool, like someone said earlier in this thread.


either way, IDGAF.  Frank's not going to Miami.

[michigancat]

Bottom line, the whole thing makes Frank look like a complete fool regardless...shows that all his talk about life and choices is nothing more than a bunch of bullshit. He talks about honesty and integration but then talks out of both sides of his mouth, feels hurt yet doesn't want to hurt what made him...eff it, I'd have alot more respect for him if he'd just come out and tell the truth. He used kstate as a stepping stone, he can talk all the BS he would like, but its no different than prince. Prince failed, Frank succeeded. Frank doesn't give a rats ass about kstate, he only cares about himself, and to be honest there isn't anything wrong with that, but like I said, I'd have more respect for him if he'd just say it so we can send him packing and find someone who really does want to be here. Although Snyder has sorta ran his course, and the times have caught up with him, I do thiink the guy actually cared about kstate, and I know people will say that if he cared he'd get the eff out...that is true but honestly that time is coming real soon and im at least willing to see what this years team does before going nuts...at least were not a pre season #3 projected to win the big 12 favorite only to dic flop our way into the dance on the back of jake in football, Frank wont have Jake, and he knows his smoke and mirrors in the big 12 are about to come to a end so, I for one do not want anyone who doesn't want to be here...good luck...please leave

This is rough ridin' stupid. No coach really cares about K-State. KSU will always be a stepping stone job and should always prepare for it. At the same time, coaches should never say they look at KSU as a stepping stone (even if they do).  If you were dumb enough to think that KSU was Frank's dream job and that he wanted to be here for ever and was always 100% honest every time he dealt with the media before this week I don't even know where to start. I mean seriously.

[kso_FAN]

Bottom line, the whole thing makes Frank look like a complete fool regardless...shows that all his talk about life and choices is nothing more than a bunch of bullcac. He talks about honesty and integration but then talks out of both sides of his mouth, feels hurt yet doesn't want to hurt what made him...eff it, I'd have alot more respect for him if he'd just come out and tell the truth. He used kstate as a stepping stone, he can talk all the BS he would like, but its no different than prince. Prince failed, Frank succeeded. Frank doesn't give a rats ass about kstate, he only cares about himself, and to be honest there isn't anything wrong with that, but like I said, I'd have more respect for him if he'd just say it so we can send him packing and find someone who really does want to be here. Although Snyder has sorta ran his course, and the times have caught up with him, I do thiink the guy actually cared about kstate, and I know people will say that if he cared he'd get the eff out...that is true but honestly that time is coming real soon and im at least willing to see what this years team does before going nuts...at least were not a pre season #3 projected to win the big 12 favorite only to dic flop our way into the dance on the back of jake in football, Frank wont have Jake, and he knows his smoke and mirrors in the big 12 are about to come to a end so, I for one do not want anyone who doesn't want to be here...good luck...please leave

I can understand (a little) being upset at how Frank handled it. It wasn't his best moment.

But wanting him out because of it is just silly. 95% of coaches are going to do the same thing at K-State and when you have a good one that does it you want him to stay as long as possible. The "I want someone that wants to be here" line leads to programs led by Jim Wooldridge. But if Jim would've won decently, he would've likely been out of here too.

[Dugout DickStone]

I'll bring it up again.  This has to be the reason that Kirby Hocutt bailed on Miami.  He most likely had Jon Gruden signed, sealed, and delivered and then some higher up said: "wait a second, he left the Raiders under odd circumstances."

If Jon Gruden is too dirty for Miami, then Frank has absolutely zero chance.

Hocutt hired the squeaky clean Temple coach and then got the hell out of there as soon as he could. He understood that his potential was severely limited there.  And what was the first thing he did at Texas Tech?  Hire Billy Gillespie.  A home run.  Think that could have happened at Miami?

Frank needs to get over his butt hurt and make this his home.  We give second chances at Kansas State.  Miami does not.

Pretty right on.  Putting the Hocutt hiring of BCG shortly after arriving in Lubbock in perspective.

[steve dave]

LHC Bill Snyder hates K-State and wishes it was dead.  He's the most selfish POS that has ever walked the Manhattan streets.  If he wins football games I'm good with it though.  

[yoga-like_abana]

John Currie laughs at the silliness thought up by Frank Martin.

[Winters]

If he wins football games I'm good with it though.  

Yes.