Nick & Rod

[wetwillie]

Cartier was a better pure shooter. No doubt. Better from 3, from the line, but nowhere near the rebounder that Rod is. And up until Huggy got a hold of him, nowhere near the defender that Rod is.. He was a much more complete player his senior year than he was under Wooly.

McGruds shot 41.9% from 3 as a FR, 40.8% this year. This year on 169 attempts. 71% and 72% from the FT line. Martin was 34.7% and 42.3% from 3 his first two years, 62% and 68.6% FTs. Really hard to say Martin is a better "pure shooter" at this point. JMHO.

Which is why his two airballs were really crushing for me.  The way our underclassmen played should be more than enough evidence for frank to keep him from running anyone off the team in the off season.  I've gone full on tard on the Nick issue but I'm certain in a few days I will want him to be on next years squad.

[jtksu]

Kinda thinking that Frank's attempted murder of anyone who misses a shot also played a role last night.  After Rod missed his first 2, he really needed to just keep shooting.  And Doc didn't look like he had any thoughts of shooting from behind the arc.

[MakeItRain]

I think mcgruder = a shorter cartier martin is a good comparison. Cartier was never much of a creator. I also think Diaz can make at least as much of an impact as gipson. (although their styles will not be.)

We already have a Diaz or two or three.  We need a true back to the basket post, I'd like to see another attempt at a high-low offense like we attempted in the non-con.

[Dugout DickStone]

I think mcgruder = a shorter cartier martin is a good comparison. Cartier was never much of a creator. I also think Diaz can make at least as much of an impact as gipson. (although their styles will not be.)

We already have a Diaz or two or three.  We need a true back to the basket post, I'd like to see another attempt at a high-low offense like we attempted in the non-con.

Isn't that what Diaz does?  How can we have 2 seven footers and neither has a BTTB game?

[sys]

soph mcguder & soph cmart had extremely similar games.

[jtksu]

Do you really want a BTTB center in the new offense?  Seems like a face up guy would be better.

[Panjandrum]

soph mcguder & soph cmart had extremely similar games.

I could be completely high, but I thought Martin's mechanics improved dramatically over the course of his career.  I thought Rodney's changed over the course of last year to this year as well (someone already mentioned a quicker release).

Cartier had more mass, so he could bang a little more, IMO, but Rodney is a little more wiry and can insert himself into post situations because of his ability to move and rebound in traffic.

I think their production and what we're asking them to do is similar.  I think people may be looking at them visually and dismissing the comparison.

I absolutely think he'll be averaging something like 15-16 points a game by his senior year.  I fully expect him to average 13-14 next season.  He works too hard on his game not to improve at least marginally.

[Panjandrum]

I think mcgruder = a shorter cartier martin is a good comparison. Cartier was never much of a creator. I also think Diaz can make at least as much of an impact as gipson. (although their styles will not be.)

We already have a Diaz or two or three.  We need a true back to the basket post, I'd like to see another attempt at a high-low offense like we attempted in the non-con.

Isn't that what Diaz does?  How can we have 2 seven footers and neither has a BTTB game?

They both weighed about 200 pounds soaking wet after high school.  They were pretty easy to push around.

[michigancat]

I think mcgruder = a shorter cartier martin is a good comparison. Cartier was never much of a creator. I also think Diaz can make at least as much of an impact as gipson. (although their styles will not be.)

We already have a Diaz or two or three.  We need a true back to the basket post, I'd like to see another attempt at a high-low offense like we attempted in the non-con.

I don't think anyone on the team is similar to Diaz at all. And you don't really need any certain type of player to be successful. Sure, it would be nice to have a "true back to the basket post", but it definitely isn't necessary.

[SlamSam]

JMHO, but I think our future relies on our posts' development. We have some pretty solid guards that could easily lead us to being a bubble team if our posts can remain average. I know none of them are outstanding, but Canada, Doc, and 95 have shown some great upside. I understand Canada isn't the popular pick, but he has a dribble drive, and not the worst handles and has shown he can make the three every once and a while. We have three point shooters in Doc, Nick (maybe), and Grudes. JamSam is the biggest ? right now imo. We know he can step up, but he really has never done it on a consistent basis. If JHR has a significant improvement in his BTTB game, he will be very valuable. As has been said, no one knows how Diaz and Gipson will turn out. If one of them steps up to be an 8-10 point contributor, it could be huge. The biggest difference will be our point spread. We know that everyone can contribute (none of them on a real consistent basis besides McGruder and Doc). Everyone has had their shining moments, even Russel. All we need is for at least two of them to step up every game.

[nicname]

Surprised no one has brought up Shane yet.  The kid obviously has a pretty good overall game if Frank is willing to start him in nearly half the team's game this year.  His outside game needs a ton of improvement, but it is really the only thing holding him back from being a really nice player.  Hopefully he shoots like 1000 jump shots a day and comes back a confident shooter.  There is no reason to think we won't see a vast improvement in his game next season.

[Barry McCockner]

Looks like a team full of complementary players.

Which is what we just lost to.

[Cartierfor3]

Surprised no one has brought up Shane yet.  The kid obviously has a pretty good overall game if Frank is willing to start him in nearly half the team's game this year.  His outside game needs a ton of improvement, but it is really the only thing holding him back from being a really nice player.  Hopefully he shoots like 1000 jump shots a day and comes back a confident shooter.  There is no reason to think we won't see a vast improvement in his game next season.

No way to know.  Look at Dom, he got suckier on offense ending with a sucktastic game against Butler.  On the other hand, jake, Rod, Jamar and others improved greatly year 1 to 2.  Hope you're right.

[nicname]

Surprised no one has brought up Shane yet.  The kid obviously has a pretty good overall game if Frank is willing to start him in nearly half the team's game this year.  His outside game needs a ton of improvement, but it is really the only thing holding him back from being a really nice player.  Hopefully he shoots like 1000 jump shots a day and comes back a confident shooter.  There is no reason to think we won't see a vast improvement in his game next season.

No way to know.  Look at Dom, he got suckier on offense ending with a sucktastic game against Butler.  On the other hand, jake, Rod, Jamar and others improved greatly year 1 to 2.  Hope you're right.

Dom was an uber-athletic headcase.  Though SS is not the pure athlete Dom was he seems to have a much higher.  I don't know whether that will translate into a better jump shot, but I have high hopes for him. 

[Barry McCockner]

To Dom's credit, he eventually realized he wasn't a shooter and bacame a contributor on offense by using his athleticism to score off of orebs and in transition.  Shane has the athleticism to do the same.  We could use that, particularly in terms of getting some transition buckets.

JHR has the opportunity to make an impact next year.  He clearly gained some confidence this year, and made a huge improvement in the course of the season.  Continued improvement in the offseason and he could be a 10/8 kind of guy.

Gruds isn't going to be a slasher in terms of getting to the basket effectively, but he does have the ability to get to 15 and pull up or take it a step deeper and hit the floater.  Same with Doc.  With the percentage they shoot from 3, teams are going to close out hard on them, and they should have that available.

The wild card as I see it (aside from the newcomers) is Samuels.  Improvement from him, back to at least end of 09-10 season level, would be a big help.

[michigancat]

Looks like a team full of complementary players.

Which is what we just lost to.

Um, no.

[Mixed-Nutz]

Shane can become a better shooter, got a decent mid range jumper, Dom never had a chance, his release was way to slow took him a whole hour to get a shot off.

[kso_FAN]

Looks like a team full of complementary players.

Which is what we just lost to.

Um, no.

But they do show what you can do with a bunch of 3 stars, a couple of borderline top 100 kid.

[Johnny Thunderbone]

We're going to be much worse than Iowa State next year. Begin psychological preparations now.

[michigancat]

Looks like a team full of complementary players.

Which is what we just lost to.

Um, no.

But they do show what you can do with a bunch of 3 stars, a couple of borderline top 100 kid.

Yep. JUST DON'T RUN ANYONE OFF.  Wisconsin has been in the top 100 in kenpom's experience ranking every year since 2008. KSU's highest since then was 159 last year.

[kso_FAN]

Looks like a team full of complementary players.

Which is what we just lost to.

Um, no.

But they do show what you can do with a bunch of 3 stars, a couple of borderline top 100 kid.

Yep. JUST DON'T RUN ANYONE OFF.  Wisconsin has been in the top 100 in kenpom's experience ranking every year since 2008. KSU's highest since then was 159 last year.

I agree completely, even if this is a fairly SLTH-y thought.

[michigancat]

Looks like a team full of complementary players.

Which is what we just lost to.

Um, no.

But they do show what you can do with a bunch of 3 stars, a couple of borderline top 100 kid.

Yep. JUST DON'T RUN ANYONE OFF.  Wisconsin has been in the top 100 in kenpom's experience ranking every year since 2008. KSU's highest since then was 159 last year.

I agree completely, even if this is a fairly SLTH-y thought.

SLTH's are generally terrible at managing rosters. see: Wooly, McDermott, and even Doc to an extent.

[Panjandrum]

We're going to be much worse than Iowa State next year. Begin psychological preparations now.

My dad said the same thing yesterday.

I'm going to wait until I see how Hoiberg manages all of those transfers before I make a judgment.

[kso_FAN]

Looks like a team full of complementary players.

Which is what we just lost to.

Um, no.

But they do show what you can do with a bunch of 3 stars, a couple of borderline top 100 kid.

Yep. JUST DON'T RUN ANYONE OFF.  Wisconsin has been in the top 100 in kenpom's experience ranking every year since 2008. KSU's highest since then was 159 last year.

I agree completely, even if this is a fairly SLTH-y thought.

SLTH's are generally terrible at managing rosters. see: Wooly, McDermott, and even Doc to an extent.

Good point. I'd say Ryan was SLTH type for Wiscy though, although he was a really good D3 coach.

[Ghost of Stan Parrish]

I'm just glad posters have moved on from discussing McGruder playing as a #2, like last off-season.