Holy War

[skycat]

How about this skycat... Since you are scientifically inclined, how about praying for 3 weeks and testing God as a working hypothesis.  Even if you are 100% sure God doesn't exist and think you are praying to air, give it a try.  Pray everyday for three weeks asking God to reveal Himself to you and try to be open-minded.

If it doesn't work, you are back in the same boat you were in, and you will now have even more evidence to bolster your assertions.  If you are as scientific as you claim to be, this should be a worthwhile experiment.  However, I bet you resist this suggestion and call it ridiculous, mainly because you are afraid of what you might find out if you did it.  

And I am not saying others are "wrong" per se and I am "right." They are just a product of the particular path they are on in this lifetime, a path that is based more on dogma, than actual experience.  The people I am "arguing" with are devoted, faithful, and good people who love God, they just have a very limited viewpoint of the Transcendent Reality they were indoctrinated with.  

Why do believers always think that non-believers must secretly believe but don't want to admit it to themselves/others? I went through the whole praying to God to reveal himself when I was a kid. Didn't work. When I first became an atheist, there was some residual God-belief, some doubt, in the back of my mind. It was mostly just a feeling, which is what religion mostly is. But the residual doubt went away. I've been an intellectually satisfied atheist for about 15 years.

There are some good books by Christian preachers who became non-believers. One is Losing Faith in Faith by Dan Barker. John Loftus and Robert Price are other preacher-to-atheist authors.

[skycat]

Big news this week.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/nasa-completes-52year-mission-to-find-kill-god,19263/

[KSU187]

How about this skycat... Since you are scientifically inclined, how about praying for 3 weeks and testing God as a working hypothesis.  Even if you are 100% sure God doesn't exist and think you are praying to air, give it a try.  Pray everyday for three weeks asking God to reveal Himself to you and try to be open-minded.

If it doesn't work, you are back in the same boat you were in, and you will now have even more evidence to bolster your assertions.  If you are as scientific as you claim to be, this should be a worthwhile experiment.  However, I bet you resist this suggestion and call it ridiculous, mainly because you are afraid of what you might find out if you did it.  

And I am not saying others are "wrong" per se and I am "right." They are just a product of the particular path they are on in this lifetime, a path that is based more on dogma, than actual experience.  The people I am "arguing" with are devoted, faithful, and good people who love God, they just have a very limited viewpoint of the Transcendent Reality they were indoctrinated with.  

Why do believers always think that non-believers must secretly believe but don't want to admit it to themselves/others? I went through the whole praying to God to reveal himself when I was a kid. Didn't work. When I first became an atheist, there was some residual God-belief, some doubt, in the back of my mind. It was mostly just a feeling, which is what religion mostly is. But the residual doubt went away. I've been an intellectually satisfied atheist for about 15 years.

There are some good books by Christian preachers who became non-believers. One is Losing Faith in Faith by Dan Barker. John Loftus and Robert Price are other preacher-to-atheist authors.

I never suggested you "secretly" want to be a believer or have any desire to.  I was just proposing an experiment.. But it sounds like my initial assessment as far as your resistance to it was right on.  If you are as intellectually satisfied as you claim, the experiment should only further  validate what you claim to know for certian.

Just a suggestion skycat, give it a try sometime, you might be suprised by what happens... Also worthy of note, is that there are many books by former atheists who became believers as well...

[PoetWarrior]

There is no better definition of a hypothesis than the big bang...

The Big Bang is not a hypothesis. It's a scientific theory.

You sure?

[Goldbrick]

I didn't write a book but I moved from atheist to 'believer' as well.

[PoetWarrior]

Atheism is an impossibility.

[pike]

Atheism is an impossibility.

[Dugout DickStone]

Big news this week.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/nasa-completes-52year-mission-to-find-kill-god,19263/

Well, that's that.

[skycat]

How about this skycat... Since you are scientifically inclined, how about praying for 3 weeks and testing God as a working hypothesis.  Even if you are 100% sure God doesn't exist and think you are praying to air, give it a try.  Pray everyday for three weeks asking God to reveal Himself to you and try to be open-minded.

If it doesn't work, you are back in the same boat you were in, and you will now have even more evidence to bolster your assertions.  If you are as scientific as you claim to be, this should be a worthwhile experiment.  However, I bet you resist this suggestion and call it ridiculous, mainly because you are afraid of what you might find out if you did it.  

And I am not saying others are "wrong" per se and I am "right." They are just a product of the particular path they are on in this lifetime, a path that is based more on dogma, than actual experience.  The people I am "arguing" with are devoted, faithful, and good people who love God, they just have a very limited viewpoint of the Transcendent Reality they were indoctrinated with.  

Why do believers always think that non-believers must secretly believe but don't want to admit it to themselves/others? I went through the whole praying to God to reveal himself when I was a kid. Didn't work. When I first became an atheist, there was some residual God-belief, some doubt, in the back of my mind. It was mostly just a feeling, which is what religion mostly is. But the residual doubt went away. I've been an intellectually satisfied atheist for about 15 years.

There are some good books by Christian preachers who became non-believers. One is Losing Faith in Faith by Dan Barker. John Loftus and Robert Price are other preacher-to-atheist authors.

I never suggested you "secretly" want to be a believer or have any desire to.  I was just proposing an experiment.. But it sounds like my initial assessment as far as your resistance to it was right on.  If you are as intellectually satisfied as you claim, the experiment should only further  validate what you claim to know for certian.

Just a suggestion skycat, give it a try sometime, you might be suprised by what happens... Also worthy of note, is that there are many books by former atheists who became believers as well...

As I said, already been there, done that.

I mentioned those authors because as former believers, their books might be more relatable to believers than would be authors who've always been atheists. It was a suggestion for anyone who might be on the fence about their beliefs.

[skycat]

Atheism is an impossibility.

This is one of the dumbest assertions that theists make. It's just disbelief that anyone could not believe in God. Funny: You believe with all your heart in an all-powerful being of which there is not a shred of evidence, yet you don't believe that people can be atheists even when they tell you, yes, I really am an atheist.

Theism is an impossibility. There, that makes just as much sense as what you said.

[pike]

KSU187.....why don't you try not praying for 3 weeks and see what happens? You won't do it because you're afraid good things will happen without you having to speak with God. But then again I'm sure you would say something like "God is always looking out for me because he loves me" which is fine, but sounds silly to an Atheist. This is a two way street and a dumb talking point.

[skycat]

There is no better definition of a hypothesis than the big bang...

The Big Bang is not a hypothesis. It's a scientific theory.

You sure?

I try not to say things unless I'm sure about them. So, yeah.

[0.42]

i'm an agnostic.

[ArchE_Cat]

the skycat vs. ksu187 thing is interesting because what i understand of Hinduism is that, according to western Hindu teaching, atheism is a valid "path." while atheism is rarely practiced by Hindus because it is difficult to reconcile spiritually w/ the rest of what Hindus believe. anyway, i just find this piece of the convo interesting.

[CNS]

Atheism is an impossibility.

This is one of the dumbest assertions that theists make. It's just disbelief that anyone could not believe in God. Funny: You believe with all your heart in an all-powerful being of which there is not a shred of evidence, yet you don't believe that people can be atheists even when they tell you, yes, I really am an atheist.

Theism is an impossibility. There, that makes just as much sense as what you said.

I actually agree with PW on this one, at least partially.  Not saying that the belief is impossible, but that it is impossible that there isn't some greater power.  I used to lean toward atheism, as I feel like science explains all but one thing very well.  That one thing is what keeps me from being full on atheist.  That one thing is what got the whole process started. 

Go back to the starting point.  How did it all get kicked off?  Its one of those questions that can be argued more than any other. 

I believe in the big bang, evolution, carbon dating, dinosaurs, and that stars are balls of gas and not holes to heaven.  However, I don't believe in the bible, or really any individual religion.  However, can't overcome the one question. 

[KSU187]

the skycat vs. ksu187 thing is interesting because what i understand of Hinduism is that, according to western Hindu teaching, atheism is a valid "path." while atheism is rarely practiced by Hindus because it is difficult to reconcile spiritually w/ the rest of what Hindus believe. anyway, i just find this piece of the convo interesting.

ArchE_Cat is kind of right.  A Hindu might argue the Lord would say.. "Even In the atheist, I AM his atheism," (being the Supreme Consciousness manifested through that particular path, even if it has no belief in the Divine).  In a certain sense, yes, atheism is a valid path.  It is possible for the person who is an atheist, to have in a previous life, blindly believed in religious teachings and that did not bid well for his soul growth.  

That karma would naturally lead to, in a future life, a path of atheism, agnosticism, or indifference.  This doubt and lack of faith is the karmic "push," so to speak, that the soul is experiencing, and therefore a valid path so the person can work out their karma.

And Pike, I am a Freemason as well, so watch what you say about calling my talking points "dumb"... my Illuminati brethren are on call...  

[1/64th]

I love how 187 keeps calling Christianity simple cuz he thinks Hinduism is so logical and complex.  GMAFB!!  I'm studied Hinduism, I've been to India.  Of all the major religions in the world, it is the craziest, baseless, and most incoherent of them all.  Christianity makes sense.  Islam...(sorta) makes sense.  Hinduism makes absolutely no sense.  There is no logic to it.  If you think too much about it you get to a point where you say, this cannot be true.  So...187, sorry to say that just because you have a billion gods, doesn't make you right.  Sorry to break it to ya.  Now go eat a hamburger or something.

Thanx for "breaking it to me" 1/64th.

You say you have "studied Hinduism." By your gross mischaracterization of it, I find that highly doubtful... I also find it doubtful you are out of your "wicked sick" high school christian youth group..

With all do respect friend, you sound like a 14 year old....

But hey, I "gtg" bra, cuz I have some gnarly gnarlingtons to hang wit 2night, lolz.

Oh, and "now go eat hamburger or something?" 

That cuts deep bra... deep...

(Im just havin a little fun, dont take it personally, im sure you're a good kid)

Classic ad hominem attack...bra.  Degrade me and then you don't have to explain why Hinduism is so complex and logical.  Explain to my how Christianity is simplied and what evidence you have of Hinduism being correct....at all.  Even one little part?  TIA.  Try to leave out the name calling this time.  It's fairly immature for someone of your enlightenment. 

[1/64th]

i'm an agnostic.

Have you looked for God pr just said screw it and went with being agnostic?

[KSU187]

I love how 187 keeps calling Christianity simple cuz he thinks Hinduism is so logical and complex.  GMAFB!!  I'm studied Hinduism, I've been to India.  Of all the major religions in the world, it is the craziest, baseless, and most incoherent of them all.  Christianity makes sense.  Islam...(sorta) makes sense.  Hinduism makes absolutely no sense.  There is no logic to it.  If you think too much about it you get to a point where you say, this cannot be true.  So...187, sorry to say that just because you have a billion gods, doesn't make you right.  Sorry to break it to ya.  Now go eat a hamburger or something.

Thanx for "breaking it to me" 1/64th.

You say you have "studied Hinduism." By your gross mischaracterization of it, I find that highly doubtful... I also find it doubtful you are out of your "wicked sick" high school christian youth group..

With all do respect friend, you sound like a 14 year old....

But hey, I "gtg" bra, cuz I have some gnarly gnarlingtons to hang wit 2night, lolz.

Oh, and "now go eat hamburger or something?" 

That cuts deep bra... deep...

(Im just havin a little fun, dont take it personally, im sure you're a good kid)

Classic ad hominem attack...bra.  Degrade me and then you don't have to explain why Hinduism is so complex and logical.  Explain to my how Christianity is simplied and what evidence you have of Hinduism being correct....at all.  Even one little part?  TIA.  Try to leave out the name calling this time.  It's fairly immature for someone of your enlightenment. 

I dunno.. I thought my Charlie Sheen "gnarly gnarlingtons" reference was quite clever. 

Anyways, I never called you any names other than "bra," questioned your maturity, stating that in your post you sounded like you were 14 (And I still stick by that statement).  I have posted several times on this thread and offered my personal experience and what I have come to know as my Truth through prayer, mediation, and devotion to God. 

Simply labeling my belief system as invalid does not make it so.  Neither does calling it incoherent or mocking it.  I was just doing a little mocking myself towards you for cacs and giggles. And as I said in the post, it was for fun, nothing personal, and I apologize if I offended you.

Anyways, you are just making claims without substantiating them or giving any insight to how you have arrived at your conclusion.  For example you said: "Of all the major religions in the world, [Hinduism] it is the craziest, baseless, and most incoherent of them all.  Christianity makes sense."  Yet you have provided nothing to back up  either assertion, other than that you have 'been' to India and 'studied' Hinduism (which I find highly doubtful, at least in an academic or cultural context and not a 'convert the heathen' context), and you also seem to believe that somehow by just saying something makes sense, it in fact does.

I have said more than enough in this thread for the readers to get the gist of what I believe, and if they are so inclined, they can google the Bhagvad Gita, Sanatan Dharma, Transcendentalism and so forth.

I make no claims to be enlightened, and as I have stated before, I am simply sharing my experience with spirituality.

God Bless.. And sorry if you can't comprehend my face-melting religion.

[0.42]

i'm an agnostic.

Have you looked for God pr just said screw it and went with being agnostic?

The concept of a supernatural being is that it is beyond the testable realms of physical and empirical methods. Therefore, it is utterly impossible for us to truly prove or disprove that there is an omnipotent being in the universe as of this point. You can either put faith in a system of organized or personally constructed moral beliefs (or a combination of the two) that are based on the concept of a higher being, or you don't. I personally don't, but I don't fault most people that have faith, especially since organized religion can be a positive force in many lives when it's not abused for purposes of economic, political, or military gain.

[pike]

OT: Hey 187, it's gnarles gnarlington

[KSU187]

OT: Hey 187, it's gnarles gnarlington

Yeah I know, it has kinda evolved... But he coined the term on your boy's show, I'm suprised you missed it.

To Alex "he's not crazy, just extremely informed" Jones:

"What they’re not ready for is guys like you and I and Nails and all the other gnarly gnarlingtons in my life, that we are high priests, Vatican assassin warlocks. Boom. Print that, people. See where that goes.”

[pike]

OT: Hey 187, it's gnarles gnarlington

Yeah I know, it has kinda evolved... But he coined the term on your boy's show, I'm suprised you missed it.

To Alex "he's not crazy, just extremely informed" Jones:

"What they’re not ready for is guys like you and I and Nails and all the other gnarly gnarlingtons in my life, that we are high priests, Vatican assassin warlocks. Boom. Print that, people. See where that goes.”

 

Can't say I listen to his show, though

[yoga-like_abana]

Rosicrucians 

[Goldbrick]

Atheism is an impossibility.

all-powerful being of which there is not a shred of evidence,

Already covered why this isn't true.

Also could cover the anthropic principle and the properties of the universe that had to be exactly right. You can either explain this with a multiverse or a god. Either 'solution' is ridiculous and yet we have loads of people reporting seeing an actual god while dead... I'll side with a god.