Author Topic: MHS caught on camera!  (Read 22281 times)

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Offline Ira Hayes

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Re: MHS caught on camera!
« Reply #50 on: February 21, 2011, 08:37:23 PM »
I already backed off my smack in the mouth comment.  Nobody deserves to get hit.  Can't even be sure from the video if she deserves to be expelled.  She probably should have shut up and not said anything.

But am I wrong to be worried for this kid who shot the video and put it on youtube? 

Offline michigancat

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Re: MHS caught on camera!
« Reply #51 on: February 21, 2011, 08:40:49 PM »
But am I wrong to be worried for this kid who shot the video and put it on youtube? 

No, but it's probably not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. Worry about starving people that can't afford cell phones that take video or something.

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: MHS caught on camera!
« Reply #52 on: February 21, 2011, 08:45:38 PM »
Kids behave the way they are allowed to behave for the most part. This is just another example.

Offline Ira Hayes

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Re: MHS caught on camera!
« Reply #53 on: February 21, 2011, 08:57:06 PM »
But am I wrong to be worried for this kid who shot the video and put it on youtube? 

No, but it's probably not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. Worry about starving people that can't afford cell phones that take video or something.

You're right.  I'm over-reacting.  Worst case, the kid can get his GED and move on.  It's not like anybody in that class was headed to Harvard.

It all worked out for Ryan Lilja.

Offline yoga-like_abana

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Re: MHS caught on camera!
« Reply #54 on: February 21, 2011, 08:58:45 PM »
But am I wrong to be worried for this kid who shot the video and put it on youtube? 

No, but it's probably not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. Worry about starving people that can't afford cell phones that take video or something.

You're right.  I'm over-reacting.  Worst case, the kid can get his GED and move on.  It's not like anybody in that class was headed to Harvard.

It all worked out for Ryan Lilja.
What would they kick him out of school for? Shooting a video of a teacher acting like a dumbass and then posting it on the internet? Seems pretty mild in the grand scheme of things.

Offline hemmy

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Re: MHS caught on camera!
« Reply #55 on: February 21, 2011, 09:02:19 PM »
I hate teenagers, they are rough ridin' annoying.

Offline Ira Hayes

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Re: MHS caught on camera!
« Reply #56 on: February 21, 2011, 09:05:15 PM »
But am I wrong to be worried for this kid who shot the video and put it on youtube?  

No, but it's probably not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. Worry about starving people that can't afford cell phones that take video or something.

You're right.  I'm over-reacting.  Worst case, the kid can get his GED and move on.  It's not like anybody in that class was headed to Harvard.

It all worked out for Ryan Lilja.
What would they kick him out of school for? Shooting a video of a teacher acting like a dumbass and then posting it on the internet? Seems pretty mild in the grand scheme of things.

Yes,  I think they would kick a kid out of school for shooting video of a teacher acting like a dumbass and posting it on the internet.  It is pretty mild in the grand scheme of things.

Most everything is pretty mild in the grand scheme of things.  Losses to Colorado are mild. Stealing things from Dillard's is mild.  Getting caught smoking dope three times is very mild.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2011, 09:08:21 PM by Ira Hayes »

Offline yoga-like_abana

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Re: MHS caught on camera!
« Reply #57 on: February 21, 2011, 09:10:28 PM »
kids probably a hero, wouldn't be surprised if they just give him A's for the rest of the semester.

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Re: MHS caught on camera!
« Reply #58 on: February 21, 2011, 09:10:34 PM »
And I'd bet there's a 99.9% chance that he is either reading this thread or has already responded in it.

:emawkid:

Offline BigCat

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Re: MHS caught on camera!
« Reply #59 on: February 21, 2011, 09:14:19 PM »
Just watched it again.  Not only do I think this teacher won't be disciplined, I think he might become a cult hero among teachers for this.  He's railing on a class for failing and for insubordination and in response, they're all laughing at him.  He also complains about the class being overcrowded.

Politicians want to judge teachers on how well their students achieve.  This video does a fantastic job of showing the challenges that teachers have in meeting that goal.

FYI, I am not a teacher.


He spit on a 16 year old student, and when she complained, he kicked her out of the classroom. 
He spit on her because he was screaming.

This.

But the video was a good illustration why corporal punishment should still be allowed.
But it's not allowed and for good reason.  The guy should get canned.

Like what? Bleeding hearts and feelers getting hurt don't count.

For practical reasons, it is so difficult to draw a line - it is much simpler just to not allow an adult teacher to physically strike a child. I don't know what you're saying would have been appropriate here..A spanking? Maybe a smack in the mouth like Ira suggested? Closed fists? Why would one OK and not the others?

For moral reasons, perhaps because we should protect the rights of our youth? If you think that makes me a bleeding heart, you are a complete jackass, and I really don't give a crap.

I agree it's difficult to draw the line. Firsthand experience (parents) suggests that in Kansas the way corporal punishment was set up was very transparent and welcomed accountability. This was at the end of that era, so it was fairly advanced and already under scrutiny. The way I understand it, teachers can't get control of the kid requiring discipline, so they were legally obligated to go to the principal, who would witness and require a teacher of the same sex to do the swatting.

That seems like a reasonable procedure. Believe me, I DO GET the concept that punishment should be up to the discretion of the parents. But at some point, you have to realize that it only takes one kid to incite the group and the teacher will lose control of the class for years. There is no punishment at school or at home that these kids recognize as sufficient enough to quell their behavior and if there is one tool that teachers and administrators can use to stem students' misbehavior, and it happens to be swatting, then so be it.

And the "moral rights of our youth"...? Until they are LEGALLY considered adults and free to do whatever the hell they want (considering consequences), it is the job of the adults around them to guide them into appropriate social behavior. If you would not advocate that a 15 year old should have full legal authority to act as an adult then you would not advocate they are allowed to act however they please within the social conventions we have set up for them.



Ooh, nice outfit. What is that, Dacron?

Offline michigancat

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Re: MHS caught on camera!
« Reply #60 on: February 21, 2011, 09:36:09 PM »
I agree it's difficult to draw the line. Firsthand experience (parents) suggests that in Kansas the way corporal punishment was set up was very transparent and welcomed accountability. This was at the end of that era, so it was fairly advanced and already under scrutiny. The way I understand it, teachers can't get control of the kid requiring discipline, so they were legally obligated to go to the principal, who would witness and require a teacher of the same sex to do the swatting.

That seems like a reasonable procedure.

That's seems like a rough ridin' stupid procedure.

Believe me, I DO GET the concept that punishment should be up to the discretion of the parents. But at some point, you have to realize that it only takes one kid to incite the group and the teacher will lose control of the class for years. There is no punishment at school or at home that these kids recognize as sufficient enough to quell their behavior and if there is one tool that teachers and administrators can use to stem students' misbehavior, and it happens to be swatting, then so be it.

Do you really think "swatting" would be effective punishment for 16 year olds? Really? :facepalm:

And the "moral rights of our youth"...? Until they are LEGALLY considered adults and free to do whatever the hell they want (considering consequences), it is the job of the adults around them to guide them into appropriate social behavior. If you would not advocate that a 15 year old should have full legal authority to act as an adult then you would not advocate they are allowed to act however they please within the social conventions we have set up for them.

I'm saying they deserve the right to not get hit by teachers. :dunno:

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Re: MHS caught on camera!
« Reply #61 on: February 21, 2011, 10:08:58 PM »
Just watched it again.  Not only do I think this teacher won't be disciplined, I think he might become a cult hero among teachers for this.  He's railing on a class for failing and for insubordination and in response, they're all laughing at him.  He also complains about the class being overcrowded.

Politicians want to judge teachers on how well their students achieve.  This video does a fantastic job of showing the challenges that teachers have in meeting that goal.

FYI, I am not a teacher.


He spit on a 16 year old student, and when she complained, he kicked her out of the classroom.  

I assumed he was responding to her complaint that he was spitting on her when he was yelling at her before the video started.  That was vague.
"I'm spitting on you because I'm pissed," is all anyone needs to hear.  That is a 15/16 year old girl and he is a teacher.  Indefensible.
\

I don't think he was literally spitting on her.  He was yelling and spit was flying out.  Big difference.

I think he went overboard, cursing, and generally being crazy but the kids are def. unruly.  These type of problems can be solved by demanding respect from day one.  These kids obviously don't respect him, I'm sure there are many teachers that would have this class up-right and at full attention from word go.
If there was a gif of nicname thwarting the attempted-flag-taker and then gesturing him to suck it, followed by motioning for all of Hilton Shelter to boo him louder, it'd be better than that auburn gif.

Offline Ira Hayes

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Re: MHS caught on camera!
« Reply #62 on: February 21, 2011, 10:21:44 PM »
If we beat Nebraska on Wednesday, maybe Frank could spare a day and be a sub in this guy's class on Thursday.   :ck:  :horrorsurprise: :horrorsurprise:

 :frank:

Frank spews out more cuss words and spittle in his annual address to the Rotary Club than that guy did in the video.

« Last Edit: February 21, 2011, 10:37:57 PM by Ira Hayes »

Offline BigCat

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Re: MHS caught on camera!
« Reply #63 on: February 21, 2011, 10:56:54 PM »
I agree it's difficult to draw the line. Firsthand experience (parents) suggests that in Kansas the way corporal punishment was set up was very transparent and welcomed accountability. This was at the end of that era, so it was fairly advanced and already under scrutiny. The way I understand it, teachers can't get control of the kid requiring discipline, so they were legally obligated to go to the principal, who would witness and require a teacher of the same sex to do the swatting.

That seems like a reasonable procedure.

That's seems like a rough ridin' stupid procedure.

I disagree.

Believe me, I DO GET the concept that punishment should be up to the discretion of the parents. But at some point, you have to realize that it only takes one kid to incite the group and the teacher will lose control of the class for years. There is no punishment at school or at home that these kids recognize as sufficient enough to quell their behavior and if there is one tool that teachers and administrators can use to stem students' misbehavior, and it happens to be swatting, then so be it.

Do you really think "swatting" would be effective punishment for 16 year olds? Really? :facepalm:

Name anything else that might be more effective. It is about pain (slight) and humiliation. You are right in that maybe those kids don't gaf. Kind of like how we have prison which is an awful punishment but does not seem to be a great deterrent.

And the "moral rights of our youth"...? Until they are LEGALLY considered adults and free to do whatever the hell they want (considering consequences), it is the job of the adults around them to guide them into appropriate social behavior. If you would not advocate that a 15 year old should have full legal authority to act as an adult then you would not advocate they are allowed to act however they please within the social conventions we have set up for them.

I'm saying they deserve the right to not get hit by teachers. :dunno:

This I wont give ground on. Are we expected to just let juveniles (who dont know any better) just run amok? I mean, school is supposed to be a controlled environment. If some punk kid came up to you on the street and peed on you and laughed, you are suggesting they should get a free pass because of these mysterious "kids rights" that you speak of? No.

The teacher is a dumbass and is wrong for what he did by losing his cool. But to suggest that his behavior was totally out of the blue and not understandable is false.



Ooh, nice outfit. What is that, Dacron?

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Offline michigancat

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Re: MHS caught on camera!
« Reply #65 on: February 21, 2011, 11:14:57 PM »
If some punk kid came up to you on the street and peed on you and laughed, you are suggesting they should get a free pass because of these mysterious "kids rights" that you speak of? No.

Peed on me? WTF? Who gets peed on?

Still, I probably wouldn't hit a kid for that if that's what you mean by "free pass". and by "kids rights" I pretty much mean "human rights".

Offline doom

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Re: MHS caught on camera!
« Reply #66 on: February 21, 2011, 11:25:37 PM »
If some punk kid came up to you on the street and peed on you and laughed, you are suggesting they should get a free pass because of these mysterious "kids rights" that you speak of? No.

Peed on me? WTF? Who gets peed on?

Still, I probably wouldn't hit a kid for that if that's what you mean by "free pass". and by "kids rights" I pretty much mean "human rights".

When I was in KG in Oklahoma they still used paddles, and a strong majority of the time, just the threat of getting it down off of the wall worked.  I think with regulation and procedure it would still be best to have it as an option.  Currently, teachers have no disciplinary measures that mean one damn thing.  There's no recess or free time to take, you can call parents (if they give a crap) or control grades (if they give a crap) but if they don't wtf do you do then? 
“They said something along the lines of ‘it kind of sounds like you’d be interested in it.’ And I said ‘hell yeah I am. Why not?’” -Doug Gottlieb

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Re: MHS caught on camera!
« Reply #67 on: February 21, 2011, 11:30:01 PM »
i normally hate when people go into the whole "how it used to be" argument but this is actually one area i agree with.

i'm emawblast, and i support corporal punishment.


Offline Ira Hayes

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Re: MHS caught on camera!
« Reply #68 on: February 21, 2011, 11:40:10 PM »

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Re: MHS caught on camera!
« Reply #69 on: February 21, 2011, 11:59:57 PM »
These type of problems can be solved by demanding respect from day one.  These kids obviously don't respect him, I'm sure there are many teachers that would have this class up-right and at full attention from word go.

Notsureifserious.jpg

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Re: MHS caught on camera!
« Reply #70 on: February 22, 2011, 01:14:22 AM »
These type of problems can be solved by demanding respect from day one.  These kids obviously don't respect him, I'm sure there are many teachers that would have this class up-right and at full attention from word go.

Notsureifserious.jpg

Why wouldn't I be serious. In high school, and all school in general there have always been teachers that you knew you could get away with certain stuff, and teachers that you knew not to eff with.  Maybe, this was a class of degens who were all lumped into the same classroom specifically set aside for underachievers and future failures.  If the that is the case then the teacher's only fault, other than lack of emotional control is perhaps caring to much about lost causes anyway.   

An instructor either owns a class or the class owns them. 

Addressing the camera.  The first thing I would do is demand that my students turn-off their phones, or place them in a designated area.  If they refused to comply they would be docked significant amounts of points on their final grades. I went back to school and the prevalence of phones in the classroom is really disrespectful to the instructor.   
If there was a gif of nicname thwarting the attempted-flag-taker and then gesturing him to suck it, followed by motioning for all of Hilton Shelter to boo him louder, it'd be better than that auburn gif.

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Re: MHS caught on camera!
« Reply #71 on: February 22, 2011, 01:15:02 AM »
Just watched it again.  Not only do I think this teacher won't be disciplined, I think he might become a cult hero among teachers for this.  He's railing on a class for failing and for insubordination and in response, they're all laughing at him.  He also complains about the class being overcrowded.

Politicians want to judge teachers on how well their students achieve.  This video does a fantastic job of showing the challenges that teachers have in meeting that goal.

FYI, I am not a teacher.


He spit on a 16 year old student, and when she complained, he kicked her out of the classroom. 
He spit on her because he was screaming.

This.

But the video was a good illustration why corporal punishment should still be allowed.
But it's not allowed and for good reason.  The guy should get canned.

Enlighten us?
If there was a gif of nicname thwarting the attempted-flag-taker and then gesturing him to suck it, followed by motioning for all of Hilton Shelter to boo him louder, it'd be better than that auburn gif.

Offline 06wildcat

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Re: MHS caught on camera!
« Reply #72 on: February 22, 2011, 01:26:53 AM »
These type of problems can be solved by demanding respect from day one.  These kids obviously don't respect him, I'm sure there are many teachers that would have this class up-right and at full attention from word go.

Notsureifserious.jpg

Why wouldn't I be serious. In high school, and all school in general there have always been teachers that you knew you could get away with certain stuff, and teachers that you knew not to eff with.  Maybe, this was a class of degens who were all lumped into the same classroom specifically set aside for underachievers and future failures.  If the that is the case then the teacher's only fault, other than lack of emotional control is perhaps caring to much about lost causes anyway.   

An instructor either owns a class or the class owns them. 

Addressing the camera.  The first thing I would do is demand that my students turn-off their phones, or place them in a designated area.  If they refused to comply they would be docked significant amounts of points on their final grades. I went back to school and the prevalence of phones in the classroom is really disrespectful to the instructor.   

OK, what are you going to do when the parents call to ask why Johnny's grade was docked? Of course you'll explain it to them and the parent won't like it so they'll complain to an administrator who will then change the grade back (at least at MHS).

I'm friends with a couple MHS teachers. They receive almost no support from administrators in the cell phone department. One even went as far as to confiscate a phone, iPod etc if he saw them out in class. He did that three times before the kids learned to go straight to one of the principals. Principal would come to the room, get the phone and give it back to the kid.

Also, good luck getting the parents to sign on to such policies when they're more often than not the ones sending texts to kids when they're in class.

Again, this is a situation that varies by district, but the administrators' support of teachers at MHS does nothing but undermine the good ones who would try to control a classroom.

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Re: MHS caught on camera!
« Reply #73 on: February 22, 2011, 01:27:04 AM »


Perhaps a better way of handling unruly students.
If there was a gif of nicname thwarting the attempted-flag-taker and then gesturing him to suck it, followed by motioning for all of Hilton Shelter to boo him louder, it'd be better than that auburn gif.

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Re: MHS caught on camera!
« Reply #74 on: February 22, 2011, 01:33:20 AM »
These type of problems can be solved by demanding respect from day one.  These kids obviously don't respect him, I'm sure there are many teachers that would have this class up-right and at full attention from word go.

Notsureifserious.jpg

Why wouldn't I be serious. In high school, and all school in general there have always been teachers that you knew you could get away with certain stuff, and teachers that you knew not to eff with.  Maybe, this was a class of degens who were all lumped into the same classroom specifically set aside for underachievers and future failures.  If the that is the case then the teacher's only fault, other than lack of emotional control is perhaps caring to much about lost causes anyway.   

An instructor either owns a class or the class owns them. 

Addressing the camera.  The first thing I would do is demand that my students turn-off their phones, or place them in a designated area.  If they refused to comply they would be docked significant amounts of points on their final grades. I went back to school and the prevalence of phones in the classroom is really disrespectful to the instructor.   

OK, what are you going to do when the parents call to ask why Johnny's grade was docked? Of course you'll explain it to them and the parent won't like it so they'll complain to an administrator who will then change the grade back (at least at MHS).

I'm friends with a couple MHS teachers. They receive almost no support from administrators in the cell phone department. One even went as far as to confiscate a phone, iPod etc if he saw them out in class. He did that three times before the kids learned to go straight to one of the principals. Principal would come to the room, get the phone and give it back to the kid.

Also, good luck getting the parents to sign on to such policies when they're more often than not the ones sending texts to kids when they're in class.

Again, this is a situation that varies by district, but the administrators' support of teachers at MHS does nothing but undermine the good ones who would try to control a classroom.

Then that is a problem with the administration.  One would like to believe that the majority of instructors, administrators, and parents would agree that the classroom is a place for learning and that any distractions should be removed from the classroom until they cease to be a distraction.  I didn't go to MHS, but I would say that if the situation that you describe is accurate that the whole educational system there is in dire need of repair.  The classroom should be the instructors dictatorship as long as he/she operates within rational boundries. 
If there was a gif of nicname thwarting the attempted-flag-taker and then gesturing him to suck it, followed by motioning for all of Hilton Shelter to boo him louder, it'd be better than that auburn gif.