Mainstream Economics Thread

[sonofdaxjones]

The only reasoning I've seen is the #blueanon expert class saying this a bad idea . . . they'll say anything Trump does is a bad idea.  So they're not worth listening to . . . interestingly enough, the same people fully support a political class who at various points over the last 30 years have stood at the lectern railing about unfair trade, railing about the offshoring of US jobs, claiming that one of their own POTUS's sold out the US worker, while also claiming that you can't just jump over a river and enter into this country . . .

[waks]

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/03/31/as-trump-reciprocal-tariffs-near-economists-say-vats-arent-trade-barrier.html

Thought this article might be useful for some people struggling in this thread.

[Sandstone Outcropping]

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/03/31/as-trump-reciprocal-tariffs-near-economists-say-vats-arent-trade-barrier.html

Thought this article might be useful for some people struggling in this thread.

Too bad the person who has declared himself Emperor of the $27 trillion US economy is too stupid to understand this.

[SleepFighter]

We are currently placing general 10% tariffs against every nation in the world, even those with which we run a goddamned trade surplus. Except for wonderful trading partners like Russia. There is no explanation for how this could possibly make sense.

I'm not reading everything in this thread, because I can't rough ridin' stand it, so I apologize if this has been posted already but here's the white paper showing how the "reciprocal" tariffs were calculated. It is impossibly stupid. I mean, it's got Greek letters in it! It must be complicated!

Except one of the parameters in the denominator is set to 4, and another one is set to .25, so the whole thing just cancels down to percentage trade imbalance. That's it.

So tiny poor countries, that can't possibly afford to import hardly any American goods, but have even a small number of exports to the US are levied with enormous tariffs.  Who the eff does this protect? No one.

Two months ago the Atlanta Fed was projecting greater than 3% growth this quarter, now it is expecting a 3% reduction in GDP.

Tariffs, when used in moderation, can be used to protect an infant industry, prior to it being ready to compete on the global stage. That is not what is being done here.

This is the single dumbest, most economically illiterate policy I have ever seen proposed, much less enacted.

Any person that defends this crap is either:
- Misinformed
- Stupid
- Cruel
- Somehow Grifting
- Trolling

That's the rough ridin' list.

[sonofdaxjones]

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/03/31/as-trump-reciprocal-tariffs-near-economists-say-vats-arent-trade-barrier.html

Thought this article might be useful for some people struggling in this thread.

#blueanon/#blueanongE still confused by "and"

And again, as always, at multiple points in the supply chain in the US, sales taxes are not applied. Whereas VATS in everything I know and have read, are applied at every point in the supply chain and few if any end users (buyers) are exempt from VATS.

Anecdotally I am looking at another quote from a US distributor of products all made off shore and we won't pay a sales tax and the end user/buyer is a sales tax exempt entity. No sales tax dollars will be collected in this trifecta of transactions.

[waks]

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/03/31/as-trump-reciprocal-tariffs-near-economists-say-vats-arent-trade-barrier.html

Thought this article might be useful for some people struggling in this thread.

#blueanon/#blueanongE still confused by "and"

It's completely irrelevant to the conversation.

[LickNeckey]

live look at Dax talking about VAT

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cfbandyman]

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/03/31/as-trump-reciprocal-tariffs-near-economists-say-vats-arent-trade-barrier.html

Thought this article might be useful for some people struggling in this thread.

#blueanon/#blueanongE still confused by "and"

It's completely irrelevant to the conversation.

Flailing also too

[sonofdaxjones]

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/03/31/as-trump-reciprocal-tariffs-near-economists-say-vats-arent-trade-barrier.html

Thought this article might be useful for some people struggling in this thread.

#blueanon/#blueanongE still confused by "and"

It's completely irrelevant to the conversation.

It is not . . . I just outlined a difference in my edit.

#blueanongE still confusing zero sales tax dollars collected vs up to 28% (or more) VATS automatically applied across every portion of the supply chain.

There's simply no logical way you can say the competitive footprint is equal in that scenario and that scenario happens within our supply chain millions of times a day.

[sonofdaxjones]

None of this of course addresses #blueanongE's inability to explain why having trade deficits that exceed a trillion dollars a year is good (or bad, as one of them admitted) and why #blueanongE continually fights for the protectionist ways of our trade "partners" while claiming to be champions of the free market.

To add to that . . . I wonder what changed.  #blueanon politicians have provided entire data centers full of material talking about the dangers of off shored jobs, the US worker being sold out, and in most cases that involved something about "Evil Republicans", and how massive trade deficits were not sustainable.

[sonofdaxjones]

live look at Dax talking about VAT

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That fits you like a glove . . . Lick

That's you, bro 

Particularly as it revolves around that amazing meltdown last week about Signal 

[SleepFighter]

No one should give a flying eff about what any politician has said in the past. The only thing that matters currently is if we are going to implement policies that are going to make economic outcomes better, or just tank the whole rough ridin' thing.

The latter is what we are currently doing. eff anyone who is for that for any reason.

[wetwillie]

What was wrong with USMCA? 

[waks]

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/03/31/as-trump-reciprocal-tariffs-near-economists-say-vats-arent-trade-barrier.html

Thought this article might be useful for some people struggling in this thread.

#blueanon/#blueanongE still confused by "and"

It's completely irrelevant to the conversation.

It is not . . . I just outlined a difference in my edit.

#blueanongE still confusing zero sales tax dollars collected vs up to 28% (or more) VATS automatically applied across every portion of the supply chain.

There's simply no logical way you can say the competitive footprint is equal in that scenario and that scenario happens within our supply chain millions of times a day.

Except they are levied on domestic and imported goods equally. It's absolutely insane that you can't understand this.

[sonofdaxjones]

#blueanongE continues to stealthly support the protectionist practices of our alleged trading "partners".

What you should be asking is . . . if they were truly our partner, why aren't they lining up to negotiate a trade deal with the US that's fair for both sides.

We all know why, in multiple cases they want to protect their cheap, near slave labor practices (in some cases), and continue to take advantage of a taxing mechanism in the US that allows multiple work arounds . . . which in turn collectively allows their products to be cheaper in the market place.  They in turn regularly slap high tariffs on US goods, particularly in areas where US companies excel which is in the upper end  capital goods domain.  Speaking of capital goods, China's state controlled manufacturing sector is highly subsidized which regularly allows them to under price the same from a US based company/manufacturer.  The examples are numerous.

#blueanon/#blueanongE's response . . . just take it America, free trade, tho!!

 

[Sandstone Outcropping]

[sonofdaxjones]

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/03/31/as-trump-reciprocal-tariffs-near-economists-say-vats-arent-trade-barrier.html

Thought this article might be useful for some people struggling in this thread.

#blueanon/#blueanongE still confused by "and"

It's completely irrelevant to the conversation.

It is not . . . I just outlined a difference in my edit.

#blueanongE still confusing zero sales tax dollars collected vs up to 28% (or more) VATS automatically applied across every portion of the supply chain.

There's simply no logical way you can say the competitive footprint is equal in that scenario and that scenario happens within our supply chain millions of times a day.

Except they are levied on domestic and imported goods equally. It's absolutely insane that you can't understand this.

Do foreign countries place tariffs on their own domestically built goods?

It's just amazing that you cannot grasp the concept of "and".

In addition, I am also talking about foreign good in our market place, that have not faced the automatic VAT at every step of the chain as they've entered into the US market.  Why is this so hard?

[Dugout DickStone]

guys i want to at least make an attempt to be fair and balanced here. Obviously there are roughly a million intellegent people shouting from the highest rooftops that this is absolutely terrible. Is there an actually legit reasonable non-mushbrained person who thinks any of this is a good idea? Like i'm sure that heritage foundation phD guy that dax is perpetually sucking off probably thinks this is all great and probably had some cherry picked stat that he's put into a misleading graph that even still doesn't really make much of a point but i mean actual reasonable people.

I have seen absolutely nothing in support of any of this whatsoever and i've tried to make a good faith effort to see if there's a legit counterargument to be made here.

The only reasoning I've seen is support of this is:
"I believe in what he is doing"
"You need to Trust Trump"
"Trust his instincts"
"Well, we needed to do SOMETHING"

So those are some arguments very much rooted in sound economics and not cult-y brainwashing.

the real non-havers are saying something about short term pain long term gain

[Sandstone Outcropping]

Laying the groundwork for blaming this disaster on "globalists" "the deep state" "RINOs" "the mainstream media elites sowing panic"

[bucket]

What was wrong with USMCA?

Trump negotiated so I thought it was perfect

[Sandstone Outcropping]

guys i want to at least make an attempt to be fair and balanced here. Obviously there are roughly a million intellegent people shouting from the highest rooftops that this is absolutely terrible. Is there an actually legit reasonable non-mushbrained person who thinks any of this is a good idea? Like i'm sure that heritage foundation phD guy that dax is perpetually sucking off probably thinks this is all great and probably had some cherry picked stat that he's put into a misleading graph that even still doesn't really make much of a point but i mean actual reasonable people.

I have seen absolutely nothing in support of any of this whatsoever and i've tried to make a good faith effort to see if there's a legit counterargument to be made here.

The only reasoning I've seen is support of this is:
"I believe in what he is doing"
"You need to Trust Trump"
"Trust his instincts"
"Well, we needed to do SOMETHING"

So those are some arguments very much rooted in sound economics and not cult-y brainwashing.

the real non-havers are saying something about short term pain long term gain

"it is good to taze yourself in the balls because what doesn't kill you makes you stronger"

[sonofdaxjones]

guys i want to at least make an attempt to be fair and balanced here. Obviously there are roughly a million intellegent people shouting from the highest rooftops that this is absolutely terrible. Is there an actually legit reasonable non-mushbrained person who thinks any of this is a good idea? Like i'm sure that heritage foundation phD guy that dax is perpetually sucking off probably thinks this is all great and probably had some cherry picked stat that he's put into a misleading graph that even still doesn't really make much of a point but i mean actual reasonable people.

I have seen absolutely nothing in support of any of this whatsoever and i've tried to make a good faith effort to see if there's a legit counterargument to be made here.

The only reasoning I've seen is support of this is:
"I believe in what he is doing"
"You need to Trust Trump"
"Trust his instincts"
"Well, we needed to do SOMETHING"

So those are some arguments very much rooted in sound economics and not cult-y brainwashing.

the real non-havers are saying something about short term pain long term gain

The drama queens continually  and apparently don't take advantage of the copious level of buying opportunities.

I suppose the same have zero faith in our country. Pretty pathetic and sad. 

[sonofdaxjones]

Laying the groundwork for blaming this disaster on "globalists" "the deep state" "RINOs" "the mainstream media elites sowing panic"

I literally just posted a video of #blueanon's own Nacy Pelosi standing in front of Congress telling us the sitting US President, a Democrat sold out the United States and the US worker.

That playbook has been used by Democrats for years . . . what changed?

[Stupid Fitz]

Guys, in 1913 Woodrow Wilson said something. What has changed since then????

[sonofdaxjones]

What I've learned so far:

1. #blueanongE self professed champions of the free market - are really just take it in the ass, America! types

2. #blueanongE cannot grasp that foreign goods do not face the automatic VAT gauntlet as they enter the US market place, and #blueanongE continually wants to claim sales taxes are equal to VATS. That would only be the case if 1. Sales taxes were automatically applied at every point in the supply chain as VATS are . . . and they are not in many circumstances as products entere the US supply chain. 2. If sales taxes were as a % equal to VATS . . . which in most cases, sales taxes are generally lower as a % then VATS

3. No #blueanongE'r can explain why trillion dollar plus trade deficits are good for the United States

4. #blueanongE clearly cannot grasp that per this administration Tariff relief is immediate if a fair trade deal is negotiated

5. The concept of a "partner" that does not treat the US and US companies fairly in trade is really not a partner.