Mainstream Economics Thread

[LickNeckey]

imagine screaming about RECIPROCAL TARIFFS

finding out they used (exports-imports) / imports to determine tariff rates

then pivoting to screaming about VAT

 

[sonofdaxjones]

Only a giant derp thinks VAT is a pivot.

It's been discussed for a long time.

Goodness . . . and Lick still won't answer my questions. 

[steve dave]

Seems like you've got a good plan president crap for brains

https://x.com/boes_/status/1907824185633812911

[star seed 7]

I see you lurking there JW, what are your thoughts? I trust you to actually know what you're talking about.

[sonofdaxjones]

Very simple way to have tariffs reduced (again).

But #blueanongE in the midst of a DefCon One level meltdown refuses to discuss it.

[LickNeckey]

I see you lurking there JW, what are your thoughts? I trust you to actually know what you're talking about.

i too would like to shut up and hear your thoughts on the matter

[Justwin]

Dax, I can't believe you just won't call this tariff situation what it is. It is moronic.

Just like with DOGE, this administration has identified an area where it would be good to work on and change some current arrangements. However, they go about it in the most ham-fisted way imaginable. This tariff crap is worse than DOGE, though. It is putting the entire economy in peril for what? To prove a point that some countries engage in unfair trade practices? I agree that they do, but why sabotage our entire economy to prove that point?

The tariff levels that have been levied are almost inexplicable. They came up with a "formula" to determine the tariff levels, but their formula makes no sense as a basis for tariff levels. It is moronic.

These tariffs are not going to improve the US economy in the long run. This is short-term pain for long-term pain.

If you are not calling these tariffs dumb/stupid/moronic, I hope that you do not have any credits in economics from K-State.

[sonofdaxjones]

For the record JW is on record saying that the US budget deficits and the interest that the US pays on its debts is not sustainable.

Please don't derp out and say something about Trump increasing those things. That's not the point. #blueanongE usuals are on record saying our deficits and the interest we pay on those borrowed dollars is irrelevant (that's how the justify blowing out the debt in order to artificially raise GDP for political gain)

[Justwin]

For the record JW is on record saying that the US budget deficits and the interest that the US pays on its debts is not sustainable.

Please don't derp out and say something about Trump increasing those things. That's not the point. #blueanongE usuals are on record saying our deficits and the interest we pay on those borrowed dollars is irrelevant (that's how the justify blowing out the debt in order to artificially raise GDP for political gain)

And these tariffs are going to make the budget situation worse.

[sonofdaxjones]

Dax, I can't believe you just won't call this tariff situation what it is. It is moronic.

Just like with DOGE, this administration has identified an area where it would be good to work on and change some current arrangements. However, they go about it in the most ham-fisted way imaginable. This tariff crap is worse than DOGE, though. It is putting the entire economy in peril for what? To prove a point that some countries engage in unfair trade practices? I agree that they do, but why sabotage our entire economy to prove that point?

The tariff levels that have been levied are almost inexplicable. They came up with a "formula" to determine the tariff levels, but their formula makes no sense as a basis for tariff levels. It is moronic.

These tariffs are not going to improve the US economy in the long run. This is short-term pain for long-term pain.

If you are not calling these tariffs dumb/stupid/moronic, I hope that you do not have any credits in economics from K-State.

I have said the implementation process is not very smart.

But sitting back and watching you guys totally avoid the questions about fairness and totally avoid the discussion about the massive trade deficits that the US is currently running (all time record) is simply fascinating to me.

Also, watching this group scream about the free market while stealthly justifying the non free market practices of our alleged trading "partners" and "allies" is popcorn and  worthy on every level.

[sonofdaxjones]

For the record JW is on record saying that the US budget deficits and the interest that the US pays on its debts is not sustainable.

Please don't derp out and say something about Trump increasing those things. That's not the point. #blueanongE usuals are on record saying our deficits and the interest we pay on those borrowed dollars is irrelevant (that's how the justify blowing out the debt in order to artificially raise GDP for political gain)

And these tariffs are going to make the budget situation worse.

Absolutely on brand . . .and proof you didn't read the whole post.

[Justwin]

Tariffs are not going to make the trade deficit better and have a good chance of making the trade deficit worse.

[sonofdaxjones]

Tariffs are not going to make the trade deficit better and have a good chance of making the trade deficit worse.

JW . . . what is the easiest path to have the tariffs reduced per this current administration?

[Justwin]

For the record JW is on record saying that the US budget deficits and the interest that the US pays on its debts is not sustainable.

Please don't derp out and say something about Trump increasing those things. That's not the point. #blueanongE usuals are on record saying our deficits and the interest we pay on those borrowed dollars is irrelevant (that's how the justify blowing out the debt in order to artificially raise GDP for political gain)

And these tariffs are going to make the budget situation worse.

Absolutely on brand . . .and proof you didn't read the whole post.

I'm not sure I follow your logic. My logic is this: The budget deficit is unsustainable, tariffs make the budget deficit worse, therefore, don't implement tariffs. What is your logic?

[sonofdaxjones]

For the record JW is on record saying that the US budget deficits and the interest that the US pays on its debts is not sustainable.

Please don't derp out and say something about Trump increasing those things. That's not the point. #blueanongE usuals are on record saying our deficits and the interest we pay on those borrowed dollars is irrelevant (that's how the justify blowing out the debt in order to artificially raise GDP for political gain)

And these tariffs are going to make the budget situation worse.

Absolutely on brand . . .and proof you didn't read the whole post.

I'm not sure I follow your logic. My logic is this: The budget deficit is unsustainable, tariffs make the budget deficit worse, therefore, don't implement tariffs. What is your logic?

The point is, when it was a D in office, the blowout deficits were no big deal per #blueanongE (and they were used to artificially keep GDP in the positive . . . well most of the time it stayed in the positive) . . . now it's a big deal??   

[Justwin]

Tariffs are not going to make the trade deficit better and have a good chance of making the trade deficit worse.

JW . . . what is the easiest path to have the tariffs reduced per this current administration?

Negotiate trade agreements. The USMCA opened up Canadian and Mexican markets some. There may still be progress to be made on opening up these markets. There are talks scheduled in 2026 for USMCA.

I would be somewhat open to having counter tariffs put in place that are the same rate as tariffs placed on US goods. These tariff levels, though, are not on par with tariffs on US goods. Also, VATs do not count as tariffs anymore than sales taxes in the US count as taxes.

The best thing that could be done to reduce the trade deficit would be to reduce the government budget deficit. The best place to start reducing the government budget deficit would be to cut defense spending in half.

[sonofdaxjones]

Tariffs are not going to make the trade deficit better and have a good chance of making the trade deficit worse.

JW . . . what is the easiest path to have the tariffs reduced per this current administration?

Negotiate trade agreements. The USMCA opened up Canadian and Mexican markets some. There may still be progress to be made on opening up these markets. There are talks scheduled in 2026 for USMCA.

I would be somewhat open to having counter tariffs put in place that are the same rate as tariffs placed on US goods. These tariff levels, though, are not on par with tariffs on US goods. Also, VATs do not count as tariffs anymore than sales taxes in the US count as taxes.

The best thing that could be done to reduce the trade deficit would be to reduce the government budget deficit. The best place to start reducing the government budget deficit would be to cut defense spending in half.

I clearly stated that the combination of VATS and tariffs skewed the market for US goods in foreign markets.  Also, the US did not have VATs in all or the vast majority of cases. That's the point. The fact that #blueanon keeps trying to water down VATS without this context is once again both fascinating and indicative of hyperpartisanship. In many cases our alleged "partners" impose VATS at every point in the chain.  A sales tax VAT is in most cases an endpoint VAT relative to the US market.

[Justwin]

Tariffs are not going to make the trade deficit better and have a good chance of making the trade deficit worse.

JW . . . what is the easiest path to have the tariffs reduced per this current administration?

Negotiate trade agreements. The USMCA opened up Canadian and Mexican markets some. There may still be progress to be made on opening up these markets. There are talks scheduled in 2026 for USMCA.

I would be somewhat open to having counter tariffs put in place that are the same rate as tariffs placed on US goods. These tariff levels, though, are not on par with tariffs on US goods. Also, VATs do not count as tariffs anymore than sales taxes in the US count as taxes.

The best thing that could be done to reduce the trade deficit would be to reduce the government budget deficit. The best place to start reducing the government budget deficit would be to cut defense spending in half.

I clearly stated that the combination of VATS and tariffs skewed the market for US goods in foreign markets.  Also, the US did not have VATs in all or the vast majority of cases. That's the point. The fact that #blueanon keeps trying to water down VATS without this context is once again both fascinating and indicative of hyperpartisanship.

VATs apply to both domestic and imported goods. How does that disadvantage US goods?

Why are you not addressing the impact of sales taxes in the US as a form of a tariff?

[sonofdaxjones]

I just did.

Why are you avoiding the combination of high tariffs and VATS, and also avoiding the application of VATS across the whole sequence by our "partners" in many cases?

In addition, it is relatively easy for state and local markets to adjust or get rid of sales taxes.  Often times its a simply city council vote, or a single session of a state legislature. This isn't the rough ridin' EU debating on the same for 6 years. Come on dude 

[wetwillie]

Come on Justwin, that man has a family sheesh.

[sonofdaxjones]

Come on Justwin, that man has a family sheesh.

 

More proclamations about winning 

[star seed 7]

Dax, if the "implementation is not very smart", why are you defending it so hard?

['taterblast]

Dax, if the "implementation is not very smart", why are you defending it so hard?

"doing something is better than nothing" has been the go-to line from the fox news boomer parents

[sonofdaxjones]

Dax, if the "implementation is not very smart", why are you defending it so hard?

Because we run massive trade deficits and our "partners" are NOT operating on the free market principles you guys allegedly support (when it fits your political narrative)

[star seed 7]

Dax, if the "implementation is not very smart", why are you defending it so hard?

Because we run massive trade deficits and our "partners" are NOT operating on the free market principles you guys allegedly support (when it fits your political narrative)

This makes you support dumb crap? Specifically dumb crap that makes things worse?