Author Topic: Mainstream Economics Thread  (Read 11180 times)

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Offline Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)

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Re: Mainstream Economics Thread
« Reply #100 on: August 31, 2014, 06:36:45 PM »
I think of myriad things that are better uses of my time than taking extra gen ed courses to satisfy the requirements necessary to obtain a useless degree.

^^^^
Actual application of economic principles
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Offline sys

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Re: Mainstream Economics Thread
« Reply #101 on: September 03, 2014, 12:25:52 AM »
http://www.technologyreview.com/news/428429/when-machines-do-your-job/

Quote
What is the optimistic view?

Erik Brynjolfsson came up with a great phrase: “digital Athens.” The Athenian citizens had lives of leisure; they got to participate in democracy and create art. That was largely because they had slaves to do the work. Okay, I don’t want human slaves, but in a very, very automated and digitally productive economy you don’t need to work as much, as hard, with as many people, to get the fruits of the economy. So the optimistic version is that we finally have more hours in our week freed up from toil and drudgery.

following up on this a bit, a poster on another forum postulated that the price of most (all) goods and services can be reduced to the sum of the price of the land and the time needed to produce them.  if followed to a theoretical extreme, given rampant automation, the prices of most human needs would fall to nothing or nearly nothing as time would be removed from the equation and only land scarcity would remain to drive prices above zero.
"lol, i understand military logistics quite well, thanks."

Offline michigancat

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Re: Mainstream Economics Thread
« Reply #102 on: September 03, 2014, 12:29:51 AM »
hmm, I suppose you could synthesize water. Theoretically.

And I know people are already experimenting with growing plants vertically for agriculture. I saw pictures from the Tulare Farm show of a company that devised a way to quickly grow grass for cattle consumption in some sort of vertical orientation. I wish I could find it.

So maybe the land thing won't even be a limit?


Offline kim carnes

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Re: Mainstream Economics Thread
« Reply #103 on: September 03, 2014, 12:33:14 AM »
hmm, I suppose you could synthesize water. Theoretically.

And I know people are already experimenting with growing plants vertically for agriculture. I saw pictures from the Tulare Farm show of a company that devised a way to quickly grow grass for cattle consumption in some sort of vertical orientation. I wish I could find it.

So maybe the land thing won't even be a limit?

i don't even know how to respond to this.  most plants grow vertically.

Offline michigancat

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Re: Mainstream Economics Thread
« Reply #104 on: September 03, 2014, 12:36:03 AM »
hmm, I suppose you could synthesize water. Theoretically.

And I know people are already experimenting with growing plants vertically for agriculture. I saw pictures from the Tulare Farm show of a company that devised a way to quickly grow grass for cattle consumption in some sort of vertical orientation. I wish I could find it.

So maybe the land thing won't even be a limit?

i don't even know how to respond to this.  most plants grow vertically.

It's something like this:

http://foddermachine.com/fodder-machine-hydroponics-fodder-machine/

Right now they just pull the pods out and feed them to cattle, but the idea could apply to human food.


Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Mainstream Economics Thread
« Reply #105 on: September 03, 2014, 10:51:30 AM »
http://www.technologyreview.com/news/428429/when-machines-do-your-job/

Quote
What is the optimistic view?

Erik Brynjolfsson came up with a great phrase: “digital Athens.” The Athenian citizens had lives of leisure; they got to participate in democracy and create art. That was largely because they had slaves to do the work. Okay, I don’t want human slaves, but in a very, very automated and digitally productive economy you don’t need to work as much, as hard, with as many people, to get the fruits of the economy. So the optimistic version is that we finally have more hours in our week freed up from toil and drudgery.

following up on this a bit, a poster on another forum postulated that the price of most (all) goods and services can be reduced to the sum of the price of the land and the time needed to produce them.  if followed to a theoretical extreme, given rampant automation, the prices of most human needs would fall to nothing or nearly nothing as time would be removed from the equation and only land scarcity would remain to drive prices above zero.

Land and resource scarcity. You still need energy and water. Plus to have rampant automation, you would have to figure in equipment costs plus maintenance. That's all that is keeping prices above zero today, really, but land and resources are only becoming more scarce. Expect costs to go up, not down.

Offline john "teach me how to" dougie

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Re: Mainstream Economics Thread
« Reply #106 on: September 03, 2014, 12:44:08 PM »
http://www.technologyreview.com/news/428429/when-machines-do-your-job/

Quote
What is the optimistic view?

Erik Brynjolfsson came up with a great phrase: “digital Athens.” The Athenian citizens had lives of leisure; they got to participate in democracy and create art. That was largely because they had slaves to do the work. Okay, I don’t want human slaves, but in a very, very automated and digitally productive economy you don’t need to work as much, as hard, with as many people, to get the fruits of the economy. So the optimistic version is that we finally have more hours in our week freed up from toil and drudgery.

following up on this a bit, a poster on another forum postulated that the price of most (all) goods and services can be reduced to the sum of the price of the land and the time needed to produce them.  if followed to a theoretical extreme, given rampant automation, the prices of most human needs would fall to nothing or nearly nothing as time would be removed from the equation and only land scarcity would remain to drive prices above zero.

Land and resource scarcity. You still need energy and water. Plus to have rampant automation, you would have to figure in equipment costs plus maintenance. That's all that is keeping prices above zero today, really, but land and resources are only becoming more scarce. Expect costs to go up, not down.

Energy (with the new carbon taxes), labor, and water costs are the driving force for for anything farmed or manufactured now and more so in the future. Prices will necessarily skyrocket.

Offline michigancat

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Re: Mainstream Economics Thread
« Reply #107 on: September 03, 2014, 12:47:40 PM »
I don't think you guys are thinking as far into the future as the poster sys was referring to.

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Mainstream Economics Thread
« Reply #108 on: September 03, 2014, 01:09:49 PM »
I don't think you guys are thinking as far into the future as the poster sys was referring to.

I think you are being the equivalent of the guys 20 years ago who thought the future would be all jetpacks and flying cars.

Offline michigancat

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Re: Mainstream Economics Thread
« Reply #109 on: September 03, 2014, 01:11:08 PM »
I don't think you guys are thinking as far into the future as the poster sys was referring to.

I think you are being the equivalent of the guys 20 years ago who thought the future would be all jetpacks and flying cars.

I'm thinking 500+ years into the future and I imagine that we won't be able to imagine what it will look like.

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Mainstream Economics Thread
« Reply #110 on: September 03, 2014, 01:17:24 PM »
I don't think you guys are thinking as far into the future as the poster sys was referring to.

I think you are being the equivalent of the guys 20 years ago who thought the future would be all jetpacks and flying cars.

I'm thinking 500+ years into the future and I imagine that we won't be able to imagine what it will look like.

Oh. I was looking 100 years into the future, and it is going to be really damned expensive to eat meat in 2114. The rent is also going to be really high. Like, mind bogglingly high.

Offline michigancat

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Re: Mainstream Economics Thread
« Reply #111 on: September 03, 2014, 01:22:30 PM »
I don't think you guys are thinking as far into the future as the poster sys was referring to.

I think you are being the equivalent of the guys 20 years ago who thought the future would be all jetpacks and flying cars.

I'm thinking 500+ years into the future and I imagine that we won't be able to imagine what it will look like.

Oh. I was looking 100 years into the future, and it is going to be really damned expensive to eat meat in 2114. The rent is also going to be really high. Like, mind bogglingly high.

nah, there's still plenty of room that far out as far as rents go, IMO. At least in the US.

I agree meat may be relatively expensive and think people in the states will have to adjust away from suburban lifestyles, but don't think things will be wildly different, economically. At least in 100 years.

Offline sys

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Re: Mainstream Economics Thread
« Reply #112 on: September 03, 2014, 02:52:07 PM »
water would be a component of land.  energy can be reduced to land and time (for example coal = coal bearing land plus time to mine, plus the land and time to produce the mining equipment, plus the equipment, labor and energy to transport transport it, etc.).  any energy i can think of can be reduced to land + time as well, though the %s of the energy that are land and that are time may vary greatly.
"lol, i understand military logistics quite well, thanks."

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Re: Mainstream Economics Thread
« Reply #113 on: September 03, 2014, 05:45:58 PM »
water would be a component of land.  energy can be reduced to land and time (for example coal = coal bearing land plus time to mine, plus the land and time to produce the mining equipment, plus the equipment, labor and energy to transport transport it, etc.).  any energy i can think of can be reduced to land + time as well, though the %s of the energy that are land and that are time may vary greatly.

In places like California and Europe, taxes will be the driving force as to what producers will charge for energy, goods, and services.

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Re: Mainstream Economics Thread
« Reply #114 on: September 03, 2014, 06:54:25 PM »
Land and resource scarcity. You still need energy and water. Plus to have rampant automation, you would have to figure in equipment costs plus maintenance. That's all that is keeping prices above zero today, really, but land and resources are only becoming more scarce. Expect costs to go up, not down.

what resources do expect to be scarce?  if you have free labor (robots), energy can be harvested for free, if you have free energy, water can be treated and distributed for free.  equipment is free, maintenance is free.

when you allow the cost of labor (labor = time) to go to zero, most things become free or almost free to produce.



costs of almost everything have come down from the industrial revolution on, while populations (demand) have exploded.
"lol, i understand military logistics quite well, thanks."

Offline michigancat

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Re: Mainstream Economics Thread
« Reply #115 on: September 03, 2014, 07:00:56 PM »
Land and resource scarcity. You still need energy and water. Plus to have rampant automation, you would have to figure in equipment costs plus maintenance. That's all that is keeping prices above zero today, really, but land and resources are only becoming more scarce. Expect costs to go up, not down.

what resources do expect to be scarce?  if you have free labor (robots), energy can be harvested for free, if you have free energy, water can be treated and distributed for free.  equipment is free, maintenance is free.

when you allow the cost of labor (labor = time) to go to zero, most things become free or almost free to produce.



costs of almost everything have come down from the industrial revolution on, while populations (demand) have exploded.

good fields to got into for humans: science/research

Offline 06wildcat

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Re: Mainstream Economics Thread
« Reply #116 on: September 03, 2014, 07:29:55 PM »
Land and resource scarcity. You still need energy and water. Plus to have rampant automation, you would have to figure in equipment costs plus maintenance. That's all that is keeping prices above zero today, really, but land and resources are only becoming more scarce. Expect costs to go up, not down.

what resources do expect to be scarce?  if you have free labor (robots), energy can be harvested for free, if you have free energy, water can be treated and distributed for free.  equipment is free, maintenance is free.

when you allow the cost of labor (labor = time) to go to zero, most things become free or almost free to produce.



costs of almost everything have come down from the industrial revolution on, while populations (demand) have exploded.

While plausible, it would also require the abolition of our current economic model to benefit all of humanity.

Offline Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)

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Re: Mainstream Economics Thread
« Reply #117 on: September 03, 2014, 07:51:46 PM »
Land and resource scarcity. You still need energy and water. Plus to have rampant automation, you would have to figure in equipment costs plus maintenance. That's all that is keeping prices above zero today, really, but land and resources are only becoming more scarce. Expect costs to go up, not down.

what resources do expect to be scarce?  if you have free labor (robots), energy can be harvested for free, if you have free energy, water can be treated and distributed for free.  equipment is free, maintenance is free.

when you allow the cost of labor (labor = time) to go to zero, most things become free or almost free to produce.



costs of almost everything have come down from the industrial revolution on, while populations (demand) have exploded.

This might be the dumbest rough ridin' thing I've ever read in the pit. Good gawd I hope you're trolling.
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Re: Mainstream Economics Thread
« Reply #118 on: September 03, 2014, 07:55:00 PM »
hmm, I suppose you could synthesize water. Theoretically.

And I know people are already experimenting with growing plants vertically for agriculture. I saw pictures from the Tulare Farm show of a company that devised a way to quickly grow grass for cattle consumption in some sort of vertical orientation. I wish I could find it.

So maybe the land thing won't even be a limit?

i don't even know how to respond to this.  most plants grow vertically.

Working with raw hydrogen and oxygen seems like a vertical endeavor as well.  These people are so rough ridin' stupid it's hard to fathom.
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Re: Mainstream Economics Thread
« Reply #119 on: September 03, 2014, 07:59:47 PM »
Welcome to fantasy land, population Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).  This entire thread is an amalgamation of idiot, moron and dolt. It's perfect and incomprehensibly frustrating all at once. It is, THE PIT!!
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Offline michigancat

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Re: Mainstream Economics Thread
« Reply #120 on: September 03, 2014, 08:06:50 PM »
Welcome to fantasy land, population Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!). 

THE WORD

:D

Offline Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)

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Re: Mainstream Economics Thread
« Reply #121 on: September 03, 2014, 08:12:25 PM »
Welcome to fantasy land, population Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!). 

THE WORD

:D

IN THE YEAR 2514, natural resources will be free because robots will farm endless land (which of course includes water).

Also, nobody will need shoes because people will walk on their hands, and video games will be powered by lava.
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Offline steve dave

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Re: Mainstream Economics Thread
« Reply #122 on: November 24, 2021, 08:08:17 AM »

Offline wetwillie

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Re: Mainstream Economics Thread
« Reply #123 on: November 24, 2021, 08:26:23 AM »
And those 200k have about 20 job offers
When the bullets are flying, that's when I'm at my best

Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: Mainstream Economics Thread
« Reply #124 on: November 24, 2021, 02:11:33 PM »
this is one of the reasons dax has disappeared.  and record low turkey prices.