Anyone else notice the correlation of JO playing and losing the lead?

[sys]

:prayingthatthecorrelationnotedinthethreadtitleisspecious:

[Skipper44]

Starter? JHR is the mvp

[michigancat]

We've never really had a player like JHR on the roster. You have to consider his length, I mean really the only fair comparisons are Hughes or Bennett, but neither was nearly as athletic.

hughes was considerably more athletic, unless perhaps you include endurance as an element of athleticism.  maybe not quite as long.


also suffered from poor hands relative to his other physical gifts.  i'm not aware of many/any players that developed from poor handed underclassmen to good handed upperclassmen.  i don't think that happens.

yeah. i see good-soft-hands as more of a natural ability than learned.

you also have to have the ability to take a lot of contact and be able catch/grab the ball to be considered to have good hands.  doubt JHR will ever be that guy no matter how hard he works at it.

This is not true. Everything about JHR can be improved. It's ludicrous to think you can't improve your "hands".

[sys]

This is not true. Everything about JHR can be improved. It's ludicrous to think you can't improve your "hands".

sure.  everything can be improved.  at the same time, different traits have different ranges of improvement possible.  because, the range of possible variation is ultimately determined by physical characters.

it is rare to see a really bad ft shooter become a good ft shooter.  i think it is equally rare for a 20 year old with really bad hands to develop good hands.  i'm less confident of the latter though, partly because it is harder to measure.  i'd love to see empirical evidence either way.

[mcmwcat]

We've never really had a player like JHR on the roster. You have to consider his length, I mean really the only fair comparisons are Hughes or Bennett, but neither was nearly as athletic.

hughes was considerably more athletic, unless perhaps you include endurance as an element of athleticism.  maybe not quite as long.


also suffered from poor hands relative to his other physical gifts.  i'm not aware of many/any players that developed from poor handed underclassmen to good handed upperclassmen.  i don't think that happens.

yeah. i see good-soft-hands as more of a natural ability than learned.

you also have to have the ability to take a lot of contact and be able catch/grab the ball to be considered to have good hands.  doubt JHR will ever be that guy no matter how hard he works at it.

This is not true. Everything about JHR can be improved. It's ludicrous to think you can't improve your "hands".

someone like Michael Beasley was born with stickem in his fingerprints.  you can't teach that.   not saying JHR can't improve his hands, but to expect him to catch everything or rebound like someone who is naturally blessed w/ sticky hands is unrealistic

[michigancat]

someone like Michael Beasley was born with stickem in his fingerprints.  you can't teach that.   not saying JHR can't improve his hands, but to expect him to catch everything or rebound like someone who is naturally blessed w/ sticky hands is unrealistic

I didn't expect him to be Michael Beasley, but you can improve hands or coordination or whatever just as much as you can anything else. Catching/ball handling are skills that can be practiced.

Also, I'm sure Mike Beasley played a eff of a lot more basketball than JHR, and therefore has developed superior skills (at everything). Part of it is because he was 6'7" when he was 12 or something, while JHR has probably grown at KSU, but a lot of Beasley's skill comes from hard work.

[MakeItRain]

i don't think his hands are bad enough to warrant a hands talking point.  bigger issue is what he tries to do with the ball when he catches. 

teach him to keep his elbows out and the ball up when he catches, and never really dribble, and the hands talking point will go away.

That would be a big win in the JO Development Process, but I don't see him ever accepting that with his obvious adoration for dribbling basketballs.

Of all the talking points in the world this is by far the dumbest.  He doesn't dribble on the blocks, he repeatedly shoots that jump hook.  He dribbles when he catches facing up.  So essentially we have a large group of tards butt hurt because he goes to the rim and doesn't settle for jump shots.

[Clevey 2 Times]

Pervis Pasco was really good. He would most likely be a starter on any KSU team since he left.

yeah, he was.

Except for the mental side of the game, yes he was good. My point was to say that if a guy like Pasco who is more athletic than Henriquez, couldn't sniff the League, then Jordan will have no chance.

Stop the Pasco/JO comparisons please.

In terms of intelligence, he was no more stupid than Samuels or Kelly.

In terms of basketball ability, I'd actually take him 100% of the time over Jam Sam, who you ought to be comparing him to.

Yeah, some of these comparisons are silly.

We've never really had a player like JHR on the roster. You have to consider his length, I mean really the only fair comparisons are Hughes or Bennett, but neither was nearly as athletic.

Pasco comparisons are tough b/c he was more of a back to the basket type player and a good athlete. Probably closest to Kelly on this team, not as skilled, but probably more of a banger/physical.

Samuels comparison is probably Massey b/c both are undersized guys that don't have a lot of perimeter skill. Massey was much more of a scorer, Samuels probably a better rebounder defender.

Your're right, Pasco-JHR comparisons aren't fair. This thread, IMO, just went into silly land when someone brought up the NBA and JHR.

FWIW, I'd take JHR over Bennett and Hughes. He seems tougher than the former and less of a sex offender than the latter.

God, wouldn't it be nice to have Pervis now and not CK? At least Perv busted his ass every game. Imagine the alley oop highlights Pasco would have had playing with Denis...

[kougar24]

i don't think his hands are bad enough to warrant a hands talking point.  bigger issue is what he tries to do with the ball when he catches. 

teach him to keep his elbows out and the ball up when he catches, and never really dribble, and the hands talking point will go away.

That would be a big win in the JO Development Process, but I don't see him ever accepting that with his obvious adoration for dribbling basketballs.

Of all the talking points in the world this is by far the dumbest.  He doesn't dribble on the blocks, he repeatedly shoots that jump hook.  He dribbles when he catches facing up.  So essentially we have a large group of tards butt hurt because he goes to the rim and doesn't settle for jump shots.

This makes me think you haven't watched him play, at all. He dribbles from the low block constantly. Probably 90% of the time he's fed the ball down there (assuming he actually catches it first).

[MakeItRain]

i don't think his hands are bad enough to warrant a hands talking point.  bigger issue is what he tries to do with the ball when he catches. 

teach him to keep his elbows out and the ball up when he catches, and never really dribble, and the hands talking point will go away.

That would be a big win in the JO Development Process, but I don't see him ever accepting that with his obvious adoration for dribbling basketballs.

Of all the talking points in the world this is by far the dumbest.  He doesn't dribble on the blocks, he repeatedly shoots that jump hook.  He dribbles when he catches facing up.  So essentially we have a large group of tards butt hurt because he goes to the rim and doesn't settle for jump shots.

This makes me think you haven't watched him play, at all. He dribbles from the low block constantly. Probably 90% of the time he's fed the ball down there (assuming he actually catches it first).

crap busted