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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Basketball is hard => Topic started by: yosh on May 20, 2010, 11:45:45 AM
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http://cjonline.com/interact/blog/austin_meek
Should spark some convo...
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:frown:
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:frown:
x2
KSU will always suck, and the staff knows it.
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And he kind of hinted at an argument the "be happy w/ old ballz's recruiting" crowd always makes. Just because we're bitching about recruiting doesn't mean we expect GRCOAT every year or beat KU for every recruit.
Just compete with the OSU's, Marquettes, Mizzous, etc. That's what I've come to accept.
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What a bunch of BS. Fit is clearly a secondary strategy, not primary. Jeronne Maymon isn't a good fit for any team.
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We're a small step away from bragging about doing things the right way :frown:
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it's next year or bust.
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We're a small step away from bragging about doing things the right way :frown:
qft
I'm pretty sure "finding the right fit" is on the same page as the "we want guys that want to be here" section of the McNeck handbook.
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Seems like if the staff is so worried about the right "fit" they should just go after all the 5* players. They always seem to fit really well with the elite national championship winning teams they commit to.
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:blindfold:
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Everyone would like to have five-star recruits at every position, but that's not feasible for most programs.
So we are already giving up on trying to get five stars to commit to us? :flush:
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Flying under the radar...
:rolleyes:
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Agree with everyone here. If the coaches say they're primarily looking for fit, it must be true. Obviously, these guys are such awesome recruiters, they'd easily land a bunch of five-stars if that's what they chose to do.
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I'm going to go find the GPC thread talking about how awesome this is and pray to the God of BBS'ing that I am somehow unblacklisted, later chumps
:cheese:
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(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.apartmenttherapy.com%2Fuimages%2Fla%2F110909_debbiedowner.jpg&hash=427298ebe0f5cda9c58f6e20e1191e53d49b9387)
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Honestly, this is the type of recruiting I always hoped K-State would get to someday during the armpit era. Of course, I got all caught up in GRCOAT and the high impact recruiting, but then its easy to remember a lot of that was Huggins.
I think Frank has found a niche, its not like they are going to have the base be completely out of nowhere, most of the guys we are getting are just off the Top75-100, so its not like we are going after complete trash. And grabbing the "pretty darn good" locals like Spradling and Williams is something we NEVER did. Probably the last one was Manny Dies.
The key for me will be mixing in the bluechip/Judge type player at least on an every 3-4 year basis. Plus probably continuing to get quality transfers on a regular basis.
Do that, and I can live with Frank's strategy and have no doubt that this can keep us at an upper division level as long as Frank is around.
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The FF we get to next year should bolster recruiting like the '03 CCG in football did.
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I think Frank has found a niche, its not like they are going to have the base be completely out of nowhere, most of the guys we are getting are just off the Top75-100, so its not like we are going after complete trash.
Actually, most of them are actually completely off the top 150. I'm ignoring Mgrud's and Judge because recruiting from the era of their commitment is dead/irrelevant.
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I think Frank has found a niche, its not like they are going to have the base be completely out of nowhere, most of the guys we are getting are just off the Top75-100, so its not like we are going after complete trash.
Actually, most of them are actually completely off the top 150. I'm ignoring Mgrud's and Judge because recruiting from the era of their commitment is dead/irrelevant.
Perhaps. Do we believe the official bios of the other guys or not?
JHR - Received scholarship offers from a number of schools, including DePaul, Kentucky, Missouri, Rhode Island, Saint Louis, Seton Hall, St. John's, UNLV and Xavier...
Irving - Received scholarship offers from a number of schools, including UCF, Creighton, Georgia, Jacksonville, Marshall, Old Dominion, Saint Louis, South Florida, Stetson and Virginia Commonwealth ...
Russell - Received scholarship offers from a number of schools, including Colorado State, Florida State, Iowa, Oklahoma, Texas Tech, SMU and UCLA...
I'm just saying these aren't guys completely out of left field.
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did Bossi talk to Frank Martin or Ron Prince, I'm confused
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Nino now ranked #105 in new rivals 150. :dunno:
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Agree with everyone here. If the coaches say they're primarily looking for fit, it must be true. Obviously, these guys are such awesome recruiters, they'd easily land a bunch of five-stars if that's what they chose to do.
It kind of falls in line with the reason(s) I'm not dating Megan Fox. Sure, she's hot, but she's not really a good fit for me.
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Nino now ranked #105 in new rivals 150. :dunno:
Thanks Bossi
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Agree with everyone here. If the coaches say they're primarily looking for fit, it must be true. Obviously, these guys are such awesome recruiters, they'd easily land a bunch of five-stars if that's what they chose to do.
It kind of falls in line with the reason(s) I'm not dating Megan Fox. Sure, she's hot, but she's not really a good fit for me.
WE ARE!
K-STATE!
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Nino now ranked #105 in new rivals 150. :dunno:
http://rivals.yahoo.com/kansasstate/football/recruiting/rankings/rank-rivals150/2011
#102.
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Nino now ranked #105 in new rivals 150. :dunno:
http://rivals.yahoo.com/kansasstate/football/recruiting/rankings/rank-rivals150/2011
#102.
Almost a :star: :star: :star: :star: :pbj:
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Nino now ranked #105 in new rivals 150. :dunno:
http://rivals.yahoo.com/kansasstate/football/recruiting/rankings/rank-rivals150/2011
#102.
Almost a :star: :star: :star: :star: :pbj:
Yep. And proof that the current recruiting philosophy is working.
Its good to be us.
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My honest opinion, I don't have a problem with the "fit" theory as long as half of the "good fits" are 4 and 5 star players. I think you can create a great program where only half the guys are top 100 types. In the post Wooly era, we've averaged one 5-star, and one more top 150 per class, which I think is just fine. I don't have illusions of bringing in multiple McDonald AAs every year, and there is pleanty of evidence that teams can be consistantly very good without it. Problem is, you have to be recruiting/offering enough high level kids every year, that your bound to get at least one of them. We seem to be so chosey about "fit" that if the one or two elites we recruit every year don't commit, we're eventually going to end up with a bunch of good fit, moderately talented guys.
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Do you guys also believe the coaches when they say that they nabbed every single recruit they were after? Because they say that too.
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BTW, Harrison now #29. loves (loved?) K-state. No offer. :facepalm:
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BTW, Harrison now #29. loves (loved?) K-state. No offer. :facepalm:
"fit"
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BTW, Harrison now #29. loves (loved?) K-state. No offer. :facepalm:
"fit"
Yeah. That's a terrible explanation.
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BTW, Harrison now #29. loves (loved?) K-state. No offer. :facepalm:
"fit"
Yeah. That's a terrible explanation.
Yeah.
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Welcome to the Spring and Summer of 1988 fellas.
:cheese:
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BTW, Harrison now #29. loves (loved?) K-state. No offer. :facepalm:
He's almost :star: :star: :star: :star: :star: :runaway: :flush:
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Remember when i was hoping for a Gibson, Boatright, Williams and Harrison class? That class would be outstanding now.
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BTW, Harrison now #29. loves (loved?) K-state. No offer. :facepalm:
He's almost :star: :star: :star: :star: :star: :runaway: :flush:
other teams know about him. how the hell do you expect Frank to recruit him now?
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Remember when i was hoping for a Gibson, Boatright, Williams and Harrison class? That class would be outstanding now.
Yeah, that would be nice
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i care less about the staff landing 5 stars than i do them throwing out offers to everyone in the country with decent talent. can you imagine how much fun baylor and marquette fans have with recruiting? this staff is cheating us on mentions.
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oh, and w. regard to the blog post, the negativecats in michigan and wichita are overblowing it. the only one saying the staff doesn't want 5 stars in meek. bossi just says that the staff trusts their own evals, and doesn't care if the recruiting coverage validates that or not. bfd.
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Remember when i was hoping for a Gibson, Boatright, Williams and Harrison class? That class would be outstanding now.
what's changed since then? I kind of thought you were crazy back then.
oh, and w. regard to the blog post, the negativecats in michigan and wichita are overblowing it. the only one saying the staff doesn't want 5 stars in meek. bossi just says that the staff trusts their own evals, and doesn't care if the recruiting coverage validates that or not. bfd.
I trust their evals 100% - I think they're great at it (at least early in the process). They just suck at getting the players they want, and have seemingly completely given up on recruitment of highly ranked players they want. That's what's frustrating. Maybe we're just little ole ksu, and we're getting the best we can expect. (although BeasWalk is hard to forget/ignore. it DID happen).
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I trust their evals 100% - I think they're great at it (at least early in the process). They just suck at getting the players they want, and have seemingly completely given up on recruitment of highly ranked players they want. That's what's frustrating. Maybe we're just little ole ksu, and we're getting the best we can expect. (although BeasWalk is hard to forget/ignore. it DID happen).
there is nothing in that blog post that suggests that kstate has given up recruiting highly ranked players, except meek throwing in filler.
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I trust their evals 100% - I think they're great at it (at least early in the process). They just suck at getting the players they want, and have seemingly completely given up on recruitment of highly ranked players they want. That's what's frustrating. Maybe we're just little ole ksu, and we're getting the best we can expect. (although BeasWalk is hard to forget/ignore. it DID happen).
there is nothing in that blog post that suggests that kstate has given up recruiting highly ranked players, except meek throwing in filler.
This hints at it:
"I don’t think they care about going out and getting the guys that have five stars next to their names. Obviously they want them, but it's more about getting the guys that fit the mold. There are schools that all they care about are ratings, whether they admit it or not. I really like (K-State's) approach."
The fact that no good players mention us also suports my theory.
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Remember when i was hoping for a Gibson, Boatright, Williams and Harrison class? That class would be outstanding now.
what's changed since then? I kind of thought you were crazy back then.
Harrison's a near 5-star and Williams is a near 4-star. Don't disagree with the crazy part.
oh, and w. regard to the blog post, the negativecats in michigan and wichita are overblowing it. the only one saying the staff doesn't want 5 stars in meek. bossi just says that the staff trusts their own evals, and doesn't care if the recruiting coverage validates that or not. bfd.
Is this referring to me? Thought I was fairly positive/nuetral in the thread. :dunno:
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No one is saying K-State doesn't want/has stopped recruiting five-star players. Everybody wants them. Just observing that K-State built a good team with a bunch of three-stars and transfers, and that's a pretty sustainable recruiting model.
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This hints at it:
"I don’t think they care about going out and getting the guys that have five stars next to their names. Obviously they want them, but it's more about getting the guys that fit the mold. There are schools that all they care about are ratings, whether they admit it or not. I really like (K-State's) approach."
The fact that no good players mention us also supports my theory.
kstate not being mentioned by elites isn't in the blog. and even so, kstate has mentions with the 20, 21 and 29 players on the list, plus several a little lower down. given the pitiful number of mentions that we've been allowed, that ratio isn't bad.
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Is this referring to me? Thought I was fairly positive/nuetral in the thread. :dunno:
yeah, sorry.
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No one is saying K-State doesn't want/has stopped recruiting five-star players. Everybody wants them. Just observing that K-State built a good team with a bunch of three-stars and transfers, and that's a pretty sustainable recruiting model.
You can't discount that the main transfers everyone refers too we're blue chips out of high school. AFAIC, Kelly is a 5-star and Clemente is a top 150 or better. Both were RSCI recruits.
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No one is saying K-State doesn't want/has stopped recruiting five-star players. Everybody wants them. Just observing that K-State built a good team with a bunch of three-stars and transfers, and that's a pretty sustainable recruiting model.
good blog post, austin.
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No one is saying K-State doesn't want/has stopped recruiting five-star players. Everybody wants them. Just observing that K-State built a good team with a bunch of three-stars and transfers, and that's a pretty sustainable recruiting model.
good blog post, austin.
Yeah, thanks austin
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PoetWarrior agrees completely with a fit philosophy.
Also, thinks the coaches' philosophy is slightly incorrect.
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No one is saying K-State doesn't want/has stopped recruiting five-star players. Everybody wants them. Just observing that K-State built a good team with a bunch of three-stars and transfers, and that's a pretty sustainable recruiting model.
You can't discount that the main transfers everyone refers too we're blue chips out of high school. AFAIC, Kelly is a 5-star and Clemente is a top 150 or better. Both were RSCI recruits.
Oh, no doubt. I'm saying I think K-State can continue getting blue-chip players as transfers.
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No one is saying K-State doesn't want/has stopped recruiting five-star players. Everybody wants them. Just observing that K-State built a good team with a bunch of three-stars and transfers, and that's a pretty sustainable recruiting model.
You can't discount that the main transfers everyone refers too we're blue chips out of high school. AFAIC, Kelly is a 5-star and Clemente is a top 150 or better. Both were RSCI recruits.
Oh, no doubt. I'm saying I think K-State can continue getting blue-chip players as transfers.
Let's hope
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Its clear that we aren't going to recruit like Kentucky (or even Kansas) and will probably have to be creative (transfers) with some of our recruiting. We'll get a lot of guys hopefully in the 75-150 spots. Occasionally a Top 50. Mix in some outside of the Top 150 and strange JUCOs (Myles). But we can win a lot of games this way.
If this makes me have the "we are poor ole K-State in recruiting" mentality, so be it, but it looks like reality. JMHO.
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maybe instead of trying to recruit top players to come in right out of highschool, the staff is trying to recruit them to come if they don't like the school they initially choose?
"hey top 20 recruit. we know we're kstate and there's no way that you think you want to come here right now, but just keep us in mind after your frosh or soph year if you don't like the playing time you are getting or break too many rules at whatever school it is that you are going to sign with. we'll be here. promise. let us know if you ever need anything. bye for now."
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Its clear that we aren't going to recruit like Kentucky (or even Kansas) and will probably have to be creative (transfers) with some of our recruiting. We'll get a lot of guys hopefully in the 75-150 spots. Occasionally a Top 50. Mix in some outside of the Top 150 and strange JUCOs (Myles). But we can win a lot of games this way.
If this makes me have the "we are poor ole K-State in recruiting" mentality, so be it, but it looks like reality. JMHO.
Hey, as long as we're doing things the right way I'm ok with it
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Its clear that we aren't going to recruit like Kentucky (or even Kansas) and will probably have to be creative (transfers) with some of our recruiting. We'll get a lot of guys hopefully in the 75-150 spots. Occasionally a Top 50. Mix in some outside of the Top 150 and strange JUCOs (Myles). But we can win a lot of games this way.
Change "occansionally" to "yearly" and I have no problem with it at all. (And we can get the top 50 through transfer as well.) That's the formula that's worked under this staff, but if you stop picking up the elites, I don't think it's going to continue to work.
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This hints at it:
"I don’t think they care about going out and getting the guys that have five stars next to their names. Obviously they want them, but it's more about getting the guys that fit the mold. There are schools that all they care about are ratings, whether they admit it or not. I really like (K-State's) approach."
The fact that no good players mention us also supports my theory.
kstate not being mentioned by elites isn't in the blog. and even so, kstate has mentions with the 20, 21 and 29 players on the list, plus several a little lower down. given the pitiful number of mentions that we've been allowed, that ratio isn't bad.
The quote says that the top priority is fit. Like all coaches whose recruiting classes don't make headlines on their own, Frank has talked about fit being the biggest factor before. That doesn't make it true. And it's probably stupid to believe them. But it's what they say.
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oh, and w. regard to the blog post, the negativecats in michigan and wichita are overblowing it. the only one saying the staff doesn't want 5 stars in meek. bossi just says that the staff trusts their own evals, and doesn't care if the recruiting coverage validates that or not. bfd.
Who doesn't want 5* talent? It's, like, getting it that's the tough part. The "fit" thing is either (a) an excuse for not being able to get 5* type talent (b) the staff being overly confident on their evals or (c) the staff actually believing in fit over talent.
No one is saying K-State doesn't want/has stopped recruiting five-star players. Everybody wants them. Just observing that K-State built a good team with a bunch of three-stars and transfers, and that's a pretty sustainable recruiting model.
I'm saying it. Othewise we'd get mentions. Unless those 5* are complying with Frank's "don't ask/ don't tell" policy of recruiting.
And no, it's not a sustainable model in terms of finishing in the top 4 of the big 12 consistently. who fracking does this in the Big 12 and is consistently good?
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Fit:
Ell Roberson III runs a QB draw 15 times a game and opponents are annihilated.
Anyone here watch Cat football?
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Average class post Wooly (5 classes)
1 5-star (Bennett, Beasley, Walker, Kelly, Judge)
1 3 or 4 star Rivals 150 (Clemente, Sutton, McGruder, Russell, Southwell)
1 JUCO
2 3-star unranked highschool players
I'm completely fine with this pattern. We don't need to have this exact pattern every class, but over a 3 or 4 year period, the pattern needs to continue. We go two or three straight seasons without any top 50s, it's going to spell trouble.
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lmao. do i sound like this sometimes? damn, how embarrassing. :grin:
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lmao. do i sound like this sometimes? damn, how embarrassing. :grin:
:embarrassed:
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lmao. do i sound like this sometimes? damn, how embarrassing. :grin:
how awkward. like when that "sniff, sniff" gpc poster took a message board vacation, then tried to worm his way back into the pecking order.
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First post I noticed FFF make since TP bought KSUfans. Mostly because it's ruining my thread.... :users:
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lmao. do i sound like this sometimes? damn, how embarrassing. :grin:
how awkward. like when that "sniff, sniff" gpc poster took a message board vacation, then tried to worm his way back into the pecking order.
:surprised:
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you don't need ridiculous talent to run Frank's system.
Mike Anderson and Frank run fairly similar systems and Mike prior to this past year had a bunch of three star kids.
You need overly athletic kids who are willing to play defense.
Frank and the staff are great at evaluating talent. I can't really name a player Frank has whiffed on besides for Gilbert and Herrera. That's a pretty good track record.
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you don't need ridiculous talent to run Frank's system.
Mike Anderson and Frank run fairly similar systems and Mike prior to this past year had a bunch of three star kids.
You need overly athletic kids who are willing to play defense.
Frank and the staff are great at evaluating talent. I can't really name a player Frank has whiffed on besides for Gilbert and Herrera. That's a pretty good track record.
Buchi, Fred, Ron...probably too early to make a call on any of the 2009's
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Why haven't we offered Harrison?
He must not be the right "fit".
Look, Frank needs to make sure he does this the RIGHT way. He needs to build this program so that it lasts for the long haul. It's all about team chem and sometimes that doesn't allow the 5-star players a spot.
He is building a team that can grind wins out.
"The foundation for this program has been laid...There is no doubt in my mind that we will succeed." -Frank Martin
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you don't need ridiculous talent to run Frank's system.
Mike Anderson and Frank run fairly similar systems and Mike prior to this past year had a bunch of three star kids.
You need overly athletic kids who are willing to play defense.
Frank and the staff are great at evaluating talent. I can't really name a player Frank has whiffed on besides for Gilbert and Herrera. That's a pretty good track record.
Buchi, Fred, Ron...probably too early to make a call on any of the 2009's
We could use any of those players imo.
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Why haven't we offered Harrison?
He must not be the right "fit".
Look, Frank needs to make sure he does this the RIGHT way. He needs to build this program so that it lasts for the long haul. It's all about team chem and sometimes that doesn't allow the 5-star players a spot.
He is building a team that can grind wins out.
"The foundation for this program has been laid...There is no doubt in my mind that we will succeed." -Frank Martin
Thought they would bite on that a little better. pretty disappointed so far.
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Thought they would bite on that a little better. pretty disappointed so far.
i thought you juiced the convo perfectly. great message boarding.
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you don't need ridiculous talent to run Frank's system.
Mike Anderson and Frank run fairly similar systems and Mike prior to this past year had a bunch of three star kids.
You need overly athletic kids who are willing to play defense.
Frank and the staff are great at evaluating talent. I can't really name a player Frank has whiffed on besides for Gilbert and Herrera. That's a pretty good track record.
Buchi, Fred, Ron...probably too early to make a call on any of the 2009's
I don't if Buchi was a complete whiff. He would have been good to have on this year's team. Fred was talented but did not want to play defense like Frank wanted him to pay defense. Ron I will give you.
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so you're saying he's poor at evaluating fit?
:runaway:
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"this message board really knows its kansas state athletes"
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Remember when i was hoping for a Gibson, Boatright, Williams and Harrison class? That class would be outstanding now.
pipe dream, the staff has never overrecruited in the fall. if they take a fourth, it'll be a spring scrub/transfer.
williams, ar-t & harrison is the realists' fall dream class of current mentions.*
* - is there enough recruiting traffic to support a: "take a big or don't in 2011" thread?
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Fit:
Ell Roberson III runs a QB draw 15 times a game and opponents are annihilated.
Anyone here watch Cat football?
Wasn't
Ell Roberson pretty highly rated and crap
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* - is there enough recruiting traffic to support a: "take a big or don't in 2011" thread?
I say yes
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whiffs:
Gilbert
Awaji
Ron
Irving (yes, Irving)
Russell
Herrerra
That's 2 whiffs per class. Which I guess isn't terrible. Most are spring guys, and Russell was option B after Burks got Bz'd.
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whiffs:
Gilbert
Awaji
Ron
Irving (yes, Irving)
Russell
Herrerra
That's 2 whiffs per class. Which I guess isn't terrible. Most are spring guys, and Russell was option B after Burks got Bz'd.
I think the fact that they told Fred to hit the road has to make him a whiff too.
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whiffs:
Gilbert
Awaji
Ron
Irving (yes, Irving)
Russell
Herrerra
That's 2 whiffs per class. Which I guess isn't terrible. Most are spring guys, and Russell was option B after Burks got Bz'd.
lol at Michigancat thinking somebody is going to debate him on Irving. Real contraversial call there Rusty.
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Fit:
Ell Roberson III runs a QB draw 15 times a game and opponents are annihilated.
Anyone here watch Cat football?
Wasn't
Ell Roberson pretty highly rated and crap
Would equate to 145-190 in basketball.
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whiffs:
Gilbert
Awaji
Ron
Irving (yes, Irving)
Russell
Herrerra
That's 2 whiffs per class. Which I guess isn't terrible. Most are spring guys, and Russell was option B after Burks got Bz'd.
I wouldn't call Russell a whiff. Not necessarily bigtime, but not a whiff. I'd say he's a better recruit than Brown was when we signed him.
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whiffs:
Gilbert
Awaji
Ron
Irving (yes, Irving)
Russell
Herrerra
That's 2 whiffs per class. Which I guess isn't terrible. Most are spring guys, and Russell was option B after Burks got Bz'd.
I think the fact that they told Fred to hit the road has to make him a whiff too.
No, that was just them being dipshits. Not really a recruiting whiff. If they didn't think Irving was hot crap, they wouldn't have run him off.
lol at Michigancat thinking somebody is going to debate him on Irving. Real contraversial call there Rusty.
KSU fans love Irving for some reason. I think he gets spared from deserved criticism more than any KSU player in recent memory.
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KSU fans love Irving for some reason. I think he gets spared from deserved criticism more than any KSU player in recent memory.
:confused:
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KSU fans love Irving for some reason. I think he gets spared from deserved criticism more than any KSU player in recent memory.
Don't love Irving, but don't hate him either. He's not going to be a star, but for whatever reason the staff likes him and he's going to play as long as he's at K-State.
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KSU fans love Irving for some reason. I think he gets spared from deserved criticism more than any KSU player in recent memory.
Don't love Irving, but don't hate him either. He's not going to be a star, but for whatever reason the staff likes him and he's going to play as long as he's at K-State.
See, this is what I'm talking about. He deserves more hate. Maybe he will add some "dipsy-doo" type moves next year that will get the hate of him from all EMAWs to an acceptable level.
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No, that was just them being dipshits. Not really a recruiting whiff. If they didn't think Irving was hot crap, they wouldn't have run him off.
semantics I guess.
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No, that was just them being dipshits. Not really a recruiting whiff. If they didn't think Irving was hot crap, they wouldn't have run him off.
semantics I guess.
Yeah. I think they really didn't like Brown or Anderson. May have been a mistake on their part, but I don't think it was as much about replacing them as it was getting them out.
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KSU fans love Irving for some reason. I think he gets spared from deserved criticism more than any KSU player in recent memory.
Don't love Irving, but don't hate him either. He's not going to be a star, but for whatever reason the staff likes him and he's going to play as long as he's at K-State.
Beggars can't be choosers. We have no one that can handle the ball beyond him and Pullen. And Pullen really isn't that great at it. That's sufficient reason not to hate him.
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No, that was just them being dipshits. Not really a recruiting whiff. If they didn't think Irving was hot crap, they wouldn't have run him off.
semantics I guess.
We can call them both whiffs IMO. I'm also fine with blaming Huggins for thinking we should sign Brown* and slow play Marcus Thornton**.
*La-Monroe Warhawk
**NBA player
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i really don't follow college basketball much. which teams have recruited only really good players that have all worked out over the past five years ?
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No, that was just them being dipshits. Not really a recruiting whiff. If they didn't think Irving was hot crap, they wouldn't have run him off.
semantics I guess.
We can call them both whiffs IMO. I'm also fine with blaming Huggins for thinking we should sign Brown* and slow play Marcus Thornton**.
*La-Monroe Warhawk
**NBA player
I agree with that.
All indications were that Thornton was wainting on us in the fall, though I don't think it was he or Brown. Its just as likely we waited b/c we were wasting our time with Tyree.
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i really don't follow college basketball much. which teams have recruited only really good players that have all worked out over the past five years ?
Kentucky?
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CM was a whiff. :users:
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i really don't follow college basketball much. which teams have recruited only really good players that have all worked out over the past five years ?
None? :dunno:
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i really don't follow college basketball much. which teams have recruited only really good players that have all worked out over the past five years ?
None? :dunno:
hmmmm. just re-read the thread and i'm not really sure where i was going with that. sorry.
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KSU fans love Irving for some reason. I think he gets spared from deserved criticism more than any KSU player in recent memory.
Don't love Irving, but don't hate him either. He's not going to be a star, but for whatever reason the staff likes him and he's going to play as long as he's at K-State.
Beggars can't be choosers. We have no one that can handle the ball beyond him and Pullen. And Pullen really isn't that great at it. That's sufficient reason not to hate him.
Irving can't handle the ball.
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i really don't follow college basketball much. which teams have recruited only really good players that have all worked out over the past five years ?
None? :dunno:
hmmmm. just re-read the thread and i'm not really sure where i was going with that. sorry.
no problem. As you know, even the most elite posters make mistakes, and the elitest admit it. I hated the Frank Martin hire for like 24 hours (fatty still makes fun), but I admit I was wrong. That's what makes us the elitest, rick daris.
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KSU fans love Irving for some reason. I think he gets spared from deserved criticism more than any KSU player in recent memory.
Don't love Irving, but don't hate him either. He's not going to be a star, but for whatever reason the staff likes him and he's going to play as long as he's at K-State.
Beggars can't be choosers. We have no one that can handle the ball beyond him and Pullen. And Pullen really isn't that great at it. That's sufficient reason not to hate him.
Irving can't handle the ball.
Not any better than Russell, anyway. Both are less than average at it so far, imo. I have no faith, from what I have seen to date, that Russell or Irving will make a steady PG this year.
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* - is there enough recruiting traffic to support a: "take a big or don't in 2011" thread?
I say yes
I second the idea of the discussion, not that there is enough traffic to support it. We should take a big. Or hope for a magical transfer.
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KSU fans love Irving for some reason. I think he gets spared from deserved criticism more than any KSU player in recent memory.
Don't love Irving, but don't hate him either. He's not going to be a star, but for whatever reason the staff likes him and he's going to play as long as he's at K-State.
Beggars can't be choosers. We have no one that can handle the ball beyond him and Pullen. And Pullen really isn't that great at it. That's sufficient reason not to hate him.
Irving can't handle the ball.
Not any better than Russell, anyway. Both are less than average at it so far, imo. I have no faith, from what I have seen to date, that Russell or Irving will make a steady PG this year.
I think either are fine for what they'll be asked to do next year, and I'd prefer Irving to Russell handling the ball.
But that is far from my biggest concern for those two; much more importantly can either improve their shot to be a legit threat from behind the arc and hit over 30%? Russel's 21% and Irvings 24% are the biggest concerns I have with either at this point.
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KSU fans love Irving for some reason. I think he gets spared from deserved criticism more than any KSU player in recent memory.
Don't love Irving, but don't hate him either. He's not going to be a star, but for whatever reason the staff likes him and he's going to play as long as he's at K-State.
Beggars can't be choosers. We have no one that can handle the ball beyond him and Pullen. And Pullen really isn't that great at it. That's sufficient reason not to hate him.
Irving can't handle the ball.
Well, then he isn't absolutely horrible at it like everyone else on the team. Either way, his ball handling will play a vital role on an otherwise very good team next year. He might not be the best, but he's all we've got and we'll be much better for having him.
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* - is there enough recruiting traffic to support a: "take a big or don't in 2011" thread?
I say yes
I second the idea of the discussion, not that there is enough traffic to support it. We should take a big. Or hope for a magical transfer.
Agreed. Right now, if Judge leaves early, we'd be looking at going into the 12 class needing to fill basically the enitre frontcourt.
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KSU fans love Irving for some reason. I think he gets spared from deserved criticism more than any KSU player in recent memory.
Don't love Irving, but don't hate him either. He's not going to be a star, but for whatever reason the staff likes him and he's going to play as long as he's at K-State.
Beggars can't be choosers. We have no one that can handle the ball beyond him and Pullen. And Pullen really isn't that great at it. That's sufficient reason not to hate him.
Irving can't handle the ball.
Well, then he isn't absolutely horrible at it like everyone else on the team. Either way, his ball handling will play a vital role on an otherwise very good team next year. He might not be the best, but he's all we've got and we'll be much better for having him.
dunno....I think he might be absolutely horrible. Not ready to say he's better than Russell...If Spradling and/or Myles aren't better (they most assuredly have to be) Pullen will handle for 40 mins against good pressure teams. As far as I can see, Irving got minutes because he can fight through a pick. He was beyond terrible everytime he had the ball in the postseason.
But that is far from my biggest concern for those two; much more importantly can either improve their shot to be a legit threat from behind the arc and hit over 30%? Russel's 21% and Irvings 24% are the biggest concerns I have with either at this point.
Agreed. We need the offguard position to just be efficient. between Spradling, Russell, Irving & McGruder...just get a rotation of guys who can knockdown open looks and not turn it over. The make-up of our team will be fairly similar to KU of last year. We need a Reed-Morningstar-Taylor type of rotation to develop amoungst those guys. Pullen is the PG. Period. He's going to want it, and none of those guys can beat him out for it.
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Unless our Canadian has good vision, Pullz has to be our PG. Jake sees very well. Irving and Nick look like they have to think about dribbling. I agree that Jake will be the man in pressure games, and prolly all others too.
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Unless our Canadian has good vision, Pullz has to be our PG. Jake sees very well. Irving and Nick look like they have to think about dribbling. I agree that Jake will be the man in pressure games, and prolly all others too.
Yeah, it will be interesting to see how Myles fits in the mix. I hope he's good enough to at least contribute.
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Unless our Canadian has good vision, Pullz has to be our PG. Jake sees very well. Irving and Nick look like they have to think about dribbling. I agree that Jake will be the man in pressure games, and prolly all others too.
Yeah, when Irving has the ball I cringe. He acts like he wants nothing to do with actually touching it.
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Unless our Canadian has good vision, Pullz has to be our PG. Jake sees very well. Irving and Nick look like they have to think about dribbling. I agree that Jake will be the man in pressure games, and prolly all others too.
Yeah, it will be interesting to see how Myles fits in the mix. I hope he's good enough to at least contribute.
We have serious trouble with a press at times and Denis was the only thing that kept them from completely pulling our pants down again and again when facing one. God help us if Myles isn't capable of filling that role. That's unless Frank decided to use some of our length in help now that he can't just rely on Denis, he gave our guards no help in the past.
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If Spradling and/or Myles aren't better (they most assuredly have to be) Pullen will handle for 40 mins against good pressure teams. As far as I can see, Irving got minutes because he can fight through a pick.
Spralding is too big to expect that. Maybe we hit the lottery with Myles. Pullen can’t carry the team against pressure like Clemente could. Irving wasn't in there solely because he's a defensive stopper. He was truly the second option at PG behind Clemente, not Pullen. There's no one else.
Are people actually assuming that Pullen will play PG next year? That's not where he's best. And Frank loves Irving.
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Unless our Canadian has good vision, Pullz has to be our PG. Jake sees very well. Irving and Nick look like they have to think about dribbling. I agree that Jake will be the man in pressure games, and prolly all others too.
Yeah, it will be interesting to see how Myles fits in the mix. I hope he's good enough to at least contribute.
We have serious trouble with a press at times and Denis was the only thing that kept them from completely pulling our pants down again and again when facing one. God help us if Myles isn't capable of filling that role. That's unless Frank decided to use some of our length in help now that he can't just rely on Denis, he gave our guards no help in the past.
Frank will def have to emphasize parts of the game this year that he didn't have to last year. You are absolutely right re: the press break, which will no doubt be an emphasis. I think Frank relied on Denis to handle things like that, and chose to prioritize other things.
We didn't see any real organized press break last year. We definitely will this year, unless our Canadian is amazing.
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If Spradling and/or Myles aren't better (they most assuredly have to be) Pullen will handle for 40 mins against good pressure teams. As far as I can see, Irving got minutes because he can fight through a pick.
Spralding is too big to expect that. Maybe we hit the lottery with Myles. Pullen can’t carry the team against pressure like Clemente could. Irving wasn't in there solely because he's a defensive stopper. He was truly the second option at PG behind Clemente, not Pullen. There's no one else.
Are people actually assuming that Pullen will play PG next year? That's not where he's best. And Frank loves Irving.
You can't put a shitty ball handler at PG just because Jake is better at the 2.
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I think Spradling will be good at dribbling because he's white and did a bunch of pistol pete drills.
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Why do people think Irving is a shitty ball handler? He played in 33 games, 10 min per, and had 15 TOs.
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Why do people think Irving is a shitty ball handler? He played in 33 games, 10 min per, and had 15 TOs.
Had the same question. :dunno:
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Why do people think Irving is a shitty ball handler? He played in 33 games, 10 min per, and had 15 TOs.
fairly high TO Rate + really low Usage rate.
When he was in the game, Pullen or Clem were pretty much always at the 1.
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All I ever remember him doing is getting the ball passed to him and, if he wasn't wide open, immediately looking for someone to pass it to in a very panicky way. When he was forced to dribble he also looked very pannicky. Could be a good ballhandler and just has very low confidence and very high freeking-out-iness. This is VHBBIQ analysis from VHBBIQ poster sd so don't try to break it down unless you have the skills to pay the bills.
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Are people actually assuming that Pullen will play PG next year? That's not where he's best.
this is the most Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) phog/gpc/goEMAW talking point available for 2010-2011. just because pullen is good at hitting 3s coming off picks doesn't mean he's not a pg. he's been a pg his entire life, until he was moved to the combo pg slot to accommodate clemente. and even then, for those of you with better memories than hypocephalic badgers, most posters, both emaw and anti-emaw, bitched that martin was a Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) for not having the two reversed until the midpoint of clemente's senior year.
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When you compare Irving to Russell and McGruder, plus Clemente's first year and Pullen's first year, its really hard to see he's absolutely terrible OR any good. About all I can say is that in a limited role he did pretty much what he was asked to do. Again, the biggest concern that comes through is hitting shots, same with Russell. Granted, not a ton of assists, but I think he was asked to not do too much.
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=denis-clemente&denis-clemente=2008-2009&jacob-pullen=2007-2008&p1=rodney-mcgruder&p2=martavious-irving&p3=nick-russell&p4=jacob-pullen
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Are people actually assuming that Pullen will play PG next year? That's not where he's best.
this is the most Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) phog/gpc/goEMAW talking point available for 2010-2011. just because pullen is good at hitting 3s coming off picks doesn't mean he's not a pg. he's been a pg his entire life, until he was moved to the combo pg slot to accommodate clemente. and even then, for those of you with better memories than hypocephalic badgers, most posters, both emaw and anti-emaw, bitched that martin was a Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) for not having the two reversed until the midpoint of clemente's senior year.
Good points. Its always fun to go back and look at recruiting of these guys.
http://kansasstate.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=604862
Jacob Pullen
Jacob Pullen
6-foot-1, 175-pound point guard
Maywood, Ill.
Three-star rating, No. 13 prospect in Illinois
The book on Pullen: A true point guard, Pullen stuck with his commitment to K-State despite offers from Iowa State, Marquette, Miami (Fla.), Notre Dame, Purdue, South Carolina and Xavier, among others. Pullen, who averaged 21 points, eight assists and five steals per contest, was present for Madness in Manhattan and was thrilled with the event at Bramlage. "It was great. It was a beautiful atmosphere," he said. "I could fall in love with this quick. I'm in a rush to get here now. I might run here from graduation in my cap and gown straight here."
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Are people actually assuming that Pullen will play PG next year? That's not where he's best.
this is the most Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) phog/gpc/goEMAW talking point available for 2010-2011. just because pullen is good at hitting 3s coming off picks doesn't mean he's not a pg. he's been a pg his entire life, until he was moved to the combo pg slot to accommodate clemente. and even then, for those of you with better memories than hypocephalic badgers, most posters, both emaw and anti-emaw, bitched that martin was a Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) for not having the two reversed until the midpoint of clemente's senior year.
I kind of agree with this. Denis and jake's jr year A/T were both 1.3. denis' ended up being 2.1 last year. jake will need to make that same jump. that being said, imo, it's going to be easier for denis to make that jump (with jake playing along side him) than it will be for jake to make that jump with fracking irving and russell playing along side him. we'll see if the frontcourt picks up the slack as well.
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Are people actually assuming that Pullen will play PG next year? That's not where he's best.
this is the most Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) phog/gpc/goEMAW talking point available for 2010-2011. just because pullen is good at hitting 3s coming off picks doesn't mean he's not a pg.
No, it's his lack of point guard skills mean that. He's not the greatest ball handler and not a good passer. Pullen is a HS 1, college 2, and not an NBA player at all. Very typical.
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No, it's his lack of point guard skills mean that. He's not the greatest ball handler and not a good passer. Pullen is a HS 1, college 2, and not an NBA player at all. Very typical.
remember when jeffrey attacked clemente for not being a good ball handler, and pissclams got excited because he hated clemente? fun times in embarrassing moments for elite posters.
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No, it's his lack of point guard skills mean that. He's not the greatest ball handler and not a good passer. Pullen is a HS 1, college 2, and not an NBA player at all. Very typical.
remember when jeffrey attacked clemente for not being a good ball handler, and pissclams got excited because he hated clemente? fun times in embarrassing moments for elite posters.
remember when clams told me that kstate would be better w/out clemente? good times.
http://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?topic=432.0
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No, it's his lack of point guard skills mean that. He's not the greatest ball handler and not a good passer. Pullen is a HS 1, college 2, and not an NBA player at all. Very typical.
remember when jeffrey attacked clemente for not being a good ball handler, and pissclams got excited because he hated clemente? fun times in embarrassing moments for elite posters.
So, Frank will have Pullen push the ball up the floor so that he can kick it out to Irving? Or maybe he is going to either change his philsophy or his love of Irving?
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No, it's his lack of point guard skills mean that. He's not the greatest ball handler and not a good passer. Pullen is a HS 1, college 2, and not an NBA player at all. Very typical.
remember when jeffrey attacked clemente for not being a good ball handler, and pissclams got excited because he hated clemente? fun times in embarrassing moments for elite posters.
remember when clams told me that kstate would be better w/out clemente? good times.
http://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?topic=432.0
http://goEMAW.podbean.com/2010/03/14/epsiode-5-the-kat-pak-crew-in-kc/
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Are people actually assuming that Pullen will play PG next year? That's not where he's best.
this is the most Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) phog/gpc/goEMAW talking point available for 2010-2011. just because pullen is good at hitting 3s coming off picks doesn't mean he's not a pg.
No, it's his lack of point guard skills mean that. He's not the greatest ball handler and not a good passer. Pullen is a HS 1, college 2, and not an NBA player at all. Very typical.
Pullen is a great passer. His problem is that he tries to force it a little too much some times, which is a discipline issue and not an ability issue. Passing discipline is easily worked on.
Irving did do his job last year. However his job was to not shazbot! up too bad while Denis was catching a 60-90sec wind. When he had the ball it looked like he was always chasing it or that he was just approaching out of control(not the good Denis fast-as-hell and doesn't-matter-if-he-loses-it-a-little-because-no-one-can-catch-him out of control). SD may be right as far as it being a confidence thing, but there def is something.
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So, Frank will have Pullen push the ball up the floor so that he can kick it out to Irving? Or maybe he is going to either change his philsophy or his love of Irving?
maybe pullen will shoot off the break? or maybe pass to a big? lots of hypotheticals.
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http://www.ksufans.com/forums/index.php?topic=13343.msg160056#msg160056
:gocho:
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So, Frank will have Pullen push the ball up the floor so that he can kick it out to Irving? Or maybe he is going to either change his philsophy or his love of Irving?
maybe pullen will shoot off the break? or maybe pass to a big? lots of hypotheticals.
point guards are not allowed to shoot. period.
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So, Frank will have Pullen push the ball up the floor so that he can kick it out to Irving? Or maybe he is going to either change his philsophy or his love of Irving?
maybe pullen will shoot off the break? or maybe pass to a big? lots of hypotheticals.
I think the pass to a big option is prolly the one that we will see. We already use a big as a trailer, who receives the first pass at the top of the arc. Diff maybe that we actually look to the post from the top of the arc as a first option, rather than getting rid of it back to a wing as fast as humanely possible.
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So, Frank will have Pullen push the ball up the floor so that he can kick it out to Irving? Or maybe he is going to either change his philsophy or his love of Irving?
maybe pullen will shoot off the break? or maybe pass to a big? lots of hypotheticals.
point guards are not allowed to shoot. period.
Once crossing half court, everyone is a combo guard according to Frank.
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So, Frank will have Pullen push the ball up the floor so that he can kick it out to Irving? Or maybe he is going to either change his philsophy or his love of Irving?
maybe pullen will shoot off the break? or maybe pass to a big? lots of hypotheticals.
point guards are not allowed to shoot. period.
The point is that Irving is wothless on offense if he's not the one pushing the ball. Pullen is not good enough to be a one man backcourt.
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So, Frank will have Pullen push the ball up the floor so that he can kick it out to Irving? Or maybe he is going to either change his philsophy or his love of Irving?
maybe pullen will shoot off the break? or maybe pass to a big? lots of hypotheticals.
point guards are not allowed to shoot. period.
The point is that Irving is wothless on offense if he's not the one pushing the ball. Pullen is not good enough to be a one man backcourt.
This is definitely the main hurdle for Frank and staff this off season. They have to find a way to make him productive. You cannot hide a kid at the PG position. If Lu was a PG, he never would have seen the floor for a D1 school.
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The point is that Irving is wothless on offense if he's not the one pushing the ball. Pullen is not good enough to be a one man backcourt.
hopefully irving doesn't get any minutes next year. i think everyone is on board with that.
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Pullen is a great passer. His problem is that he tries to force it a little too much some times, which is a discipline issue and not an ability issue. Passing discipline is easily worked on.
Irving did do his job last year. However his job was to not shazbot! up too bad while Denis was catching a 60-90sec wind. When he had the ball it looked like he was always chasing it or that he was just approaching out of control(not the good Denis fast-as-hell and doesn't-matter-if-he-loses-it-a-little-because-no-one-can-catch-him out of control). SD may be right as far as it being a confidence thing, but there def is something.
Jim Harrick, a 23-year veteran of collegiate coaching, followed K-State in the NCAA Tournament. From his experience, which included coaching UCLA to a National Title in 1995, he said Clemente could make the right NBA roster and "... be a terrific backup point because he's so quick."
Of Pullen, he said, "The NBA will say he's a two-guard in a one-guard body. But he guards so hard that he makes guys want to run under the bleachers and hide. There's a place for him because he's a terrific spot-up shooter, he defends, and he has that 'it' that some guys do have, and other players do not have."
Harrick, however, said that Pullen "... is not a great passer, which is something that he needs to concentrate on this summer because it's not easy to convert guys to the point."
:peek:
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Hopefully any Pullen kick outs are to McGruder or Jam-Sam.
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The point is that Irving is wothless on offense if he's not the one pushing the ball. Pullen is not good enough to be a one man backcourt.
hopefully irving doesn't get any minutes next year. i think everyone is on board with that.
Not gonna happen. Frank loves him and our options are seriously limited.
And, yeah, calling Pullen a great passer is more than a stretch. He's okay at best.
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fairly high TO Rate + really low Usage rate.
Low usage rate naturally inflates TO Rate. See Balbay.
I don't really have much of an opinion as to how good of a ball handler Irving is, other than "not great".
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Not gonna happen. Frank loves him and our options are seriously limited.
he wouldn't have taken myles if he loved him as much as you suggest. taking myles imbalanced the classes and overloaded the team with 1-2 guards. in some ways, it was a desperation recruit and dramatically increases the possibility that someone transfers at the end of this year.
i don't think that suggests that the staff is very comfortable with irving and russell.
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Pullen has two issues when it comes to his passing one is jumping off the drive and having to get rid of it in the air(equates to a bad decision often), and the other is that he sometimes forces passes when on the wing.
The first one is the discipline I already mentioned, and can be corrected pretty easily through more reps as the PG. The second is a function of our entire team not moving well without the ball as much as it is on Pullen.
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Not gonna happen. Frank loves him and our options are seriously limited.
he wouldn't have taken myles if he loved him as much as you suggest. taking myles imbalanced the classes and overloaded the team with 1-2 guards. in some ways, it was a desperation recruit and dramatically increases the possibility that someone transfers at the end of this year.
i don't think that suggests that the staff is very comfortable with irving and russell.
I agree. I meant he loves him like he loves Merriewether and will play him plenty because of it.
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Not gonna happen. Frank loves him and our options are seriously limited.
he wouldn't have taken myles if he loved him as much as you suggest. taking myles imbalanced the classes and overloaded the team with 1-2 guards. in some ways, it was a desperation recruit and dramatically increases the possibility that someone transfers at the end of this year.
i don't think that suggests that the staff is very comfortable with irving and russell.
I honestly don't see how Russell is still on the team at the end of the year if he doesn't make the biggest improvement that we have seen from any player in the Huggs/Frank era.
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Not gonna happen. Frank loves him and our options are seriously limited.
he wouldn't have taken myles if he loved him as much as you suggest. taking myles imbalanced the classes and overloaded the team with 1-2 guards. in some ways, it was a desperation recruit and dramatically increases the possibility that someone transfers at the end of this year.
i don't think that suggests that the staff is very comfortable with irving and russell.
I honestly don't see how Russell is still on the team at the end of the year if he doesn't make the biggest improvement that we have seen from any player in the Huggs/Frank era.
I don't know if I'd put it that strong, but of any of the guys on the roster he's probably the most Brown-ish.
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It was kinda humerous how Russell would get minutes against all the Texas teams
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It was kinda humerous how Russell would get minutes against all the Texas teams
True. He just has to prove to the staff they didn't make a fitstake by recruiting him.
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It was kinda humerous how Russell would get minutes against all the Texas teams
True. He just has to prove to the staff they didn't make a fitstake by recruiting him.
lol
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It was kinda humerous how Russell would get minutes against all the Texas teams
Team shouldn't have to suffer because we need some good TX PR. Hire a better recruiter.
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Hopefully any Pullen kick outs are to McGruder or Jam-Sam.
Kelly will also have 3pt range next year
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Hopefully any Pullen kick outs are to McGruder or Jam-Sam.
Kelly will also have 3pt range next year play the 3 next year.
:surprised:
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Not gonna happen. Frank loves him and our options are seriously limited.
he wouldn't have taken myles if he loved him as much as you suggest. taking myles imbalanced the classes and overloaded the team with 1-2 guards. in some ways, it was a desperation recruit and dramatically increases the possibility that someone transfers at the end of this year.
i don't think that suggests that the staff is very comfortable with irving and russell.
I agree. I meant he loves him like he loves Merriewether and will play him plenty because of it.
CM played like 8mpg, which is a far cry from starting PG. If anyone besides Pullen is starting PG, it's because they beat out Pullen, not beacuse Pullen is better as a 2. That isn't going to happen realistically
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Merri shouldn't be part of this discussion anyway. He was a walk-on for Huggs. Merri/OJ can be discussed, but they have no place in a "Frank Recruiting Phitlosophy" thread. JMHO.
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This thread has gone full on tard.
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This thread has gone full on tard.
Meh. Its the offseason.
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This thread has gone full on tard.
Meh. Its the offseason.
It was fine when the elites were posting and fatty made fun of us. went downhill shortly after.
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CM played like 8mpg, which is a far cry from starting PG. If anyone besides Pullen is starting PG, it's because they beat out Pullen, not beacuse Pullen is better as a 2. That isn't going to happen realistically
If you're saying that Irving is going to get 8 energy mpg on top of whatever he's going to get because we lost Clemente and have no quality depth at guard, you're saying he's going to get a lot of minutes.
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mods should split thread into 2: 1 for discussion on meek blog post and the other for discussion on the zero talent that composes the combo guards on this team (outside of pullen ... obv)
tia
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CM played like 8mpg, which is a far cry from starting PG. If anyone besides Pullen is starting PG, it's because they beat out Pullen, not beacuse Pullen is better as a 2. That isn't going to happen realistically
If you're saying that Irving is going to get 8 energy mpg on top of whatever he's going to get because we lost Clemente and have no quality depth at guard, you're saying he's going to get a lot of minutes.
:facepalm:
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Interesting thread. I realize that it is the offseason and people need somthing to freak out about, but relax a little about Irving. He did everything he was supposed to do last year, and he will continue to do his job next year. Remember both Irving and Russel were Freshman. They will both take up more roles on the team and they will either step up, or Frank will make them step up. So relax a little and trust in our coaching staff. They will have the players ready when the time comes. That is all. :cheers:
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welcome poonlagoon :adios:
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Thanks Clams! Good to be here
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Thanks Clams! Good to be here
Welcome, poonlagoon