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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Basketball is hard => Topic started by: sonofdaxjones on February 22, 2015, 12:27:02 PM
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oscar decided that just because we had some turnovers and what not, that we needed to slow it down and play slothkestball with this collection of players.
My observo's say putting guys like Jevon Thomas, Nigel and others in a slow pace only pronounces the need for them to make great decisions all the time, and literally have to try and QB a half court offense when they're clearly not capable of doing it.
I don't know, but I'd rather take my chances pushing the ball, up tempo than try and beat anyone with this personnel running a half court offense.
It's those kinds of things that are fireable offenses. It's over coaching and oscar is the king of over coaching.
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Slower pace means more control for the coach.
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Justin, Marcus, and Wesley can finish at the rim and would flourish in an uptempo system. But Nooooooooo, lets slow this rough rider down and put our inexperienced pg's in more positions to fail.
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He likes to spread (the blame)
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his strategy isn't the problem. He failed to recruit talented players. He was just fine with the 2012-13 group because he had good players.
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We all know about the recruiting . . . but in this case he recruited guys who are better getting up and down the floor than trying to slug it in the half court.
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It's funny that he started this year playing faster, but then slowed it down for dumb reasons. Mainly he thought his control would work, but it's failed miserably. Probably the worst failure of his coaching career, which is really saying something.
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We all know about the recruiting . . . but in this case he recruited guys who are better getting up and down the floor than trying to slug it in the half court.
Which of the players were recruited to get up and down?
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It's not the first time he's pulled this crap, tho. His first year after losing by a respectful score to KU at Doom while missing a bunch of open threes, he decided in the Big-12 championship game we had to hold the ball deep into the possession against very good defensive team.
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We all know about the recruiting . . . but in this case he recruited guys who are better getting up and down the floor than trying to slug it in the half court.
Which of the players were recruited to get up and down?
I didn't say they were specifically recruited to get up and down the floor, its just that style better suits them as players. Don't make this hard.
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Wes, Jevon, Nigel, Justin, Malik would all better do better in a fast paced offense. Wes is so good in transition and when we were playing fast Nigel was much better. Jevon serves virtually no purpose in a half court offense. Nino and Marcus can do either equally well.
Our transition defense is a whole another kind of garbage, however.
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The 4-out motion offense seems doomed to failure in games where Gip is going against taller, more skilled bigs (KU, UT, Baylor).
It also seems like there's not nearly enough motion off the ball for a "motion" offense
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Simply put, this is oscar's fault for not recruiting players that fit his system better, and now, not adjusting his system to fit his players better. Adapt or die.
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He's simply playing the game the way it was meant to be played. You can keep your street ball, I think I'll listen to the coach who has won five conference titles.
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the team would still suck. it's the players.
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the team would still suck. it's the players.
Yeah, this seems accurate.
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the team would still suck. it's the players.
Yeah, this seems accurate.
And the defense would still suck.
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LOL. We won 4 top 30 rpi games. It is not a talent issue it is not a strategy issue. It is a mismanaging issue. We have terrible effort and make day 1 mistakes constantly.
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the team would still suck. it's the players.
Yeah, this seems accurate.
This is a top half of the Big 12 and a Tournament team with a better coach. There is enough talent there
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LOL. We won 4 top 30 rpi games. It is not a talent issue it is not a strategy issue. It is a mismanaging issue. We have terrible effort and make day 1 mistakes constantly.
Yeah, that's what makes it worse. oscar has coached some good games and the players have played well at times. Then they come back and coach/play terribly. I guess that summarizes oscar's career pretty much.
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teams beat better teams all the time, you are your record.
good teams have good guards.
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teams beat better teams all the time, you are your record.
good teams have good guards.
West Virginia. :Skillz:
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The Chip is no longer on the shoulder.
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LOL. We won 4 top 30 rpi games. It is not a talent issue it is not a strategy issue. It is a mismanaging issue. We have terrible effort and make day 1 mistakes constantly.
Don't strategy and managing go hand in hand?
Talent is there, but development definitely is not. Not one player has made a good stride since last season and many have declined severely. That is on the assistant coaches and the guy who hired them and the culture they have set.
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LOL. We won 4 top 30 rpi games. It is not a talent issue it is not a strategy issue. It is a mismanaging issue. We have terrible effort and make day 1 mistakes constantly.
Don't strategy and managing go hand in hand?
Talent is there, but development definitely is not. Not one player has made a good stride since last season and many have declined severely. That is on the assistant coaches and the guy who hired them and the culture they have set.
Nino is better, but everyone else is the same or worse.
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LOL. We won 4 top 30 rpi games. It is not a talent issue it is not a strategy issue. It is a mismanaging issue. We have terrible effort and make day 1 mistakes constantly.
Don't strategy and managing go hand in hand?
Talent is there, but development definitely is not. Not one player has made a good stride since last season and many have declined severely. That is on the assistant coaches and the guy who hired them and the culture they have set.
Nino is better, but everyone else is the same or worse.
Nino seems slightly improved but it's mainly due to him getting more minutes and shots than last year. Correct me if I'm wrong, but he shot the same or slightly better and had more rebounds last year but was playing half the minutes??
Either way, we need an overhaul.
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I posted a per 100 thread comparing last year and this last week. Nino is better.
But yeah, we need to get a lot better a lot of places next year.
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this was oscar before the texas tech game:
“They play hard and they control tempo,” Weber said. “I think that is just his M.O. That is how they play. I guess it is our style, too. We don’t have the ability this year to explode and go get a lot of points. So I hope we make a bunch of shots and they don’t, but if it goes according to what has happened it is probably going to be a hard-fought, low-scoring game.”
weber has a gift for demonstrating a lack of confidence and uncertainty with the spoken word. i mean, the guy is what he is - a serial hope trafficker. but if you can't articulate your style of play and must use phrases like 'i guess' we are this...or 'i guess' we are that...then it's totally fair to question your ability.
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I posted a per 100 thread comparing last year and this last week. Nino is better.
But yeah, we need to get a lot better a lot of places next year.
I don't think individual development is the problem. Think a lot of players shooting skill have improved. It more of a failure of team development. If that makes sense.
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It almost seems as if communicating a vision of what kind of team oscar wants his team to be to his actual team might be something that hasn't been accomplished.
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It almost seems as if communicating a vision of what kind of team oscar wants his team to be to his actual team might be something that hasn't been accomplished.
I feel like he tried this with his ridiculous point system. He has to have a vision, it just seems to be he can't communicate (or they don't understand) each individual players role in achieving that vision or style of play.
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It almost seems as if communicating a vision of what kind of team oscar wants his team to be to his actual team might be something that hasn't been accomplished.
No doubt. Going from high pace to start the season, then slowing to a snail's pace after Georgia would suggest this. Also, the slow down may have contributed to the discontent.
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I just don't know how you can look at our roster and say the talent is there. We don't have a high major pg and the tallest post player with any competence is 6'6. Justin, Jevon, Nigel, Hurt and Bolden are not high major players. The sample size on tre harris is so low that i can't really make that determination but he's likely not one either.
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It almost seems as if communicating a vision of what kind of team oscar wants his team to be to his actual team might be something that hasn't been accomplished.
No doubt. Going from high pace to start the season, then slowing to a snail's pace after Georgia would suggest this. Also, the slow down may have contributed to the discontent.
i have no issue with a coach changing strategy, even if it's done during midseason, as long as it's for the right reasons. thad matta had ohio state playing 95 percent zone for the first time in his career during non-con, then said eff it and went back to man midway through the Big Ten opener. jim larranaga has constantly reinvented miami's style of play on both ends over the last two years.
the problem with oscar's midseason adjustment is that i suspect his main motivation for playing slower was to reduce possessions in an effort to make the losses more respectable. impossibly, the losses have somehow gotten worse.
ksu_FAN documented how horrible the baylor loss was. but losing by 17 at texas tech (0.86 ppp in B12 play) while giving up 67 points on 50 possessions? that is remarkable ineptitude.
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It almost seems as if communicating a vision of what kind of team oscar wants his team to be to his actual team might be something that hasn't been accomplished.
No doubt. Going from high pace to start the season, then slowing to a snail's pace after Georgia would suggest this. Also, the slow down may have contributed to the discontent.
i have no issue with a coach changing strategy, even if it's done during midseason, as long as it's for the right reasons. thad matta had ohio state playing 95 percent zone for the first time in his career during non-con, then said eff it and went back to man midway through the Big Ten opener. jim larranaga has constantly reinvented miami's style of play on both ends over the last two years.
the problem with oscar's midseason adjustment is that i suspect his main motivation for playing slower was to reduce possessions in an effort to make the losses more respectable. impossibly, the losses have somehow gotten worse.
ksu_FAN documented how horrible the baylor loss was. but losing by 17 at texas tech (0.86 ppp in B12 play) while giving up 67 points on 50 possessions? that is remarkable ineptitude.
All of this.
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What will it take at this point to get a "I was coaching not to lose" admission this year?
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What will it take at this point to get a "I was coaching not to lose" admission this year?
With all the dumb crap that comes out of his mouth it is certainly a possibility
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would be nice if someone in the media would ask him why he hasn't learned from his past self-admitted mistake:
"The sad thing about the whole thing I guess is it's my fault," Weber said Wednesday. "Instead of creating toughness and developing a team, I coached not to lose all year. It's sad to be honest, but it is what is."
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would be nice if someone in the media would ask him why he hasn't learned from his past self-admitted mistake:
"The sad thing about the whole thing I guess is it's my fault," Weber said Wednesday. "Instead of creating toughness and developing a team, I coached not to lose all year. It's sad to be honest, but it is what is."
This. My goodness.
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Dscott seems like he has had enough. May be up for some hard questions given another Brucegame or two. Tweet him and he may run with it.
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Timing may be perfect for both gE and WackyCat for gE to finally get that press pass. :dunno:
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It almost seems as if communicating a vision of what kind of team oscar wants his team to be to his actual team might be something that hasn't been accomplished.
No doubt. Going from high pace to start the season, then slowing to a snail's pace after Georgia would suggest this. Also, the slow down may have contributed to the discontent.
i have no issue with a coach changing strategy, even if it's done during midseason, as long as it's for the right reasons. thad matta had ohio state playing 95 percent zone for the first time in his career during non-con, then said eff it and went back to man midway through the Big Ten opener. jim larranaga has constantly reinvented miami's style of play on both ends over the last two years.
the problem with oscar's midseason adjustment is that i suspect his main motivation for playing slower was to reduce possessions in an effort to make the losses more respectable. impossibly, the losses have somehow gotten worse.
ksu_FAN documented how horrible the baylor loss was. but losing by 17 at texas tech (0.86 ppp in B12 play) while giving up 67 points on 50 possessions? that is remarkable ineptitude.
Tech loss was -0.34 ppp differential. #17 worst in the last 15 years. Particularly bad since they aren't even a top 150 team.
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Tech loss was -0.34 ppp differential. #17 worst in the last 15 years. Particularly bad since they aren't even a top 150 team.
yeah, that's what made it worse to me. i saw baylor go 1.32 ppp vs texas, 1.25 vs memphis, etc. so they are at least capable of such a performance. before scoring 67 on 50 poss vs. ksu, tech had 1 ppp plus only once in its previous nine league games - and that's on a technicality (foul fest finish vs iowa st).
since the k-state win, tech has gone 0.6, 0.84, 0.79, 0.88, 1.04.
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A few weeks back I was firmly in the "let's not speed it up, it'll only make things worse" camp, but after the debacle that has continued since I'm less certain. Regardless, terrible PG play would be bad slow or fast paced. I would be interested to see Wes and Justin in a fast paced offense though. Maybe just have Marcus with the ball in his hands as much as either PG?
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the entire team is out of shape and incapable of playing fast.
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teams beat better teams all the time, you are your record.
good teams have good guards.
You don't see a team do it 4 times in one season all that often.
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If they're going to live with poor shooting, take more shots. Buckets win.
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It's really disappointing to watch this team score 83 points or more four times in the first seven games, and then score less than 60 in regulation eleven times already during conference play. I understand the pace has been slower and competition has been better, but that sure as crap can't account fully for that big of a scoring discrepancy.
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You know it's bad when D. Scott "it's never the coaches fault" Fritchen has given up on the coaches.
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You know it's bad when D. Scott "it's never the coaches fault" Fritchen has given up on the coaches.
Yeah, anyone defending debruce now needs put in a home, if they're not already there
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would be nice if someone in the media would ask him why he hasn't learned from his past self-admitted mistake:
"The sad thing about the whole thing I guess is it's my fault," Weber said Wednesday. "Instead of creating toughness and developing a team, I coached not to lose all year. It's sad to be honest, but it is what is."
Where is this from?
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I just don't know how you can look at our roster and say the talent is there. We don't have a high major pg and the tallest post player with any competence is 6'6. Justin, Jevon, Nigel, Hurt and Bolden are not high major players. The sample size on tre harris is so low that i can't really make that determination but he's likely not one either.
I feel like most of these guys could have been quality players, but they haven't improved at all since they got here
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The biggest issue i see with oscar is the biggest issue I had with prince, his teams give up and no-show.
When his team shows up and plays hard it's a top 25 team. When it doesn't it can lose to South Texas at home and to TTU/TCU by a thousand. Right now it's not showing up and is non-responsive to his prayers.
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would be nice if someone in the media would ask him why he hasn't learned from his past self-admitted mistake:
"The sad thing about the whole thing I guess is it's my fault," Weber said Wednesday. "Instead of creating toughness and developing a team, I coached not to lose all year. It's sad to be honest, but it is what is."
Where is this from?
http://espn.go.com/chicago/ncb/story/_/id/7582029/frustrated-illinois-fighting-illini-coach-oscar-weber-clarifies-remarks
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the entire team is out of shape and incapable of playing fast.
This is true and overlooked. This team does not seem highly athletic or well-conditioned. Greenawalt really helped players develop as athletes, and I am not seeing the same physical maturation and growth in the current crop.
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his strategy isn't the problem. He failed to recruit talented players. He was just fine with the 2012-13 group because he had good players.
Naw. I mean, we're not that talented but we're not this bad. There is clearly something else going on like everyone says. Nobody gets along and everyone is sad and bored. And oscar doesn't understand people.
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Also Gipson is like the dad that gets home at night and pours himself a bourbon and heads to the study so he doesn't have to talk to his family.
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his strategy isn't the problem. He failed to recruit talented players. He was just fine with the 2012-13 group because he had good players.
Naw. I mean, we're not that talented but we're not this bad. There is clearly something else going on like everyone says. Nobody gets along and everyone is sad and bored. And oscar doesn't understand people.
his teams have been less talented every year since he arrived and have been progressively worse.
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Also Gipson is like the dad that gets home at night and pours himself a bourbon and heads to the study so he doesn't have to talk to his family.
That's a fantastic analogy.
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the entire team is out of shape and incapable of playing fast.
This is true and overlooked. This team does not seem highly athletic or well-conditioned. Greenawalt really helped players develop as athletes, and I am not seeing the same physical maturation and growth in the current crop.
This. If we did run, we'd have to play at least ten guys consistently. That'd be disastrous.