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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Basketball is hard => Topic started by: shivvyman on January 27, 2015, 09:31:35 PM
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It appeared that we had absolutely no rough ridin' clue WVU presses on a regular basis. I mean, I don't think I've ever seen a team so unprepared to face a full court press let alone actually get the ball in play before 5 seconds had expired. What JV crap was that? The few times we did break the press we seemed content to hold onto the ball until all of WVU's players we back into defensive position. Heaven forbid we attack the rim when we have numbers.
Also, your starting PG cannot be the worst FT shooter on the team. He shouldn't even be on the court against a team who is going to send you to the line every other possession. I was praying they actually wouldn't foul him because sending Thomas to the line is the equivalent to just turning the ball over.
What an abortion of a game. oscar's dumbfuck look only compounds the problem. Somebody needs to give him a ice cream cone and tell him to sit the eff down and stop embarrassing our University.
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I would love to see Mr. Bread comment on this.
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I would almost tend to say it was the opposite. If anything our guys were over thinking everything. oscar talked about how you must attack WVU's press, but he also talked about avoiding TOs that led directly to points. To me it looked like we were so deliberate with the basketball and we were not going to give up TOs that led to points that we held the ball way too long and had too many terrible cuts/screens, etc.
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the Hail Mary offense was ingenious
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the Hail Mary offense was ingenious
Yeah. Also, Big Meat trying to throw the ball off of a defender at the half court line is something I have never seen before.
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Our press breaks were terrible. There was very little screening and often times they would initiate the press break after a second or two, it wasn't quick enough.
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It appeared that we had absolutely no rough ridin' clue WVU presses on a regular basis. I mean, I don't think I've ever seen a team so unprepared to face a full court press let alone actually get the ball in play before 5 seconds had expired. What JV crap was that? The few times we did break the press we seemed content to hold onto the ball until all of WVU's players we back into defensive position. Heaven forbid we attack the rim when we have numbers.
Also, your starting PG cannot be the worst FT shooter on the team. He shouldn't even be on the court against a team who is going to send you to the line every other possession. I was praying they actually wouldn't foul him because sending Thomas to the line is the equivalent to just turning the ball over.
What an abortion of a game. oscar's dumbfuck look only compounds the problem. Somebody needs to give him a ice cream cone and tell him to sit the eff down and stop embarrassing our University.
Ice cream cones won't do it. Has to be chicken nuggets or chicken nuggets.
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I would almost tend to say it was the opposite. If anything our guys were over thinking everything. oscar talked about how you must attack WVU's press, but he also talked about avoiding TOs that led directly to points. To me it looked like we were so deliberate with the basketball and we were not going to give up TOs that led to points that we held the ball way too long and had too many terrible cuts/screens, etc.
On inbounds players have to be able to make cuts and get open. Jevon was the only one worth a dam. Everyone else was disappointing. Thought we were pretty good at getting the ball up the court. Would of liked us to be more efficient and getting easy basket through the pressure.
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the Hail Mary offense was ingenious
Yeah. Also, Big Meat trying to throw the ball off of a defender at the half court line is something I have never seen before.
These are the types of things that keep the cats entertaining this year. I'm always wondering what terrible fundamentals they'll show next.
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Why did marcus throw the ball way high out to the half court line to a wv player that one time?
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Why did marcus throw the ball way high out to the half court line to a wv player that one time?
It really is a treasure trove of gems. Hard to pick just one. The Hurt debacle is the best for me.
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Why did marcus throw the ball way high out to the half court line to a wv player that one time?
it was an acceptable turnover. The cats all had plenty of time to react to the upcoming turnover as the ball floated high through the air. We got back on defense and avoided the turnover that led to an easy basket.
#coaching
Gonna win 'em all!
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Why did marcus throw the ball way high out to the half court line to a wv player that one time?
It really is a treasure trove of gems. Hard to pick just one. The Hurt debacle is the best for me.
Edwards giving up trying to inbounds the ball in the first half and pleading to oscar prior to the 5 second call was my favorite.
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Some of the time this season a player has been open the second the official hands us the ball. Then we feel obligated to run some terrible inbounds play instead of just getting the ball in.
WV's big standing in front of the ball so they have time to set up the press was a good move.
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the Hail Mary offense was ingenious
Yeah. Also, Big Meat trying to throw the ball off of a defender at the half court line is something I have never seen before.
yeah I couldn't believe my eyes after that one.
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I bet we did hold practice. If we didn't I think some serious evaluations need to be made by Currie and Co. I mean how can you not have practice during the heart of the conference schedule? It's unthinkable. I know some of you have a hardened heart when it comes to oscar, but come on!
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Words can't even describe what kind of amateur hour the press break was, maybe one on of the worst coaching efforts relative to a teams capabilities I've ever seen.
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Screening against that press would have compounded the problem you dumbasses
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Screening against that press would have compounded the problem you dumbasses
#doublescreens
Gonna win 'em all!
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Screening against that press would have compounded the problem you dumbasses
Yeah, moving/cutting was as much of a problem as screening. I think you can use screening and cutting off of screens to relieve pressure though.
Also, while the TOs were extremely frustrating, I'm still more upset about the things that we can control. Shooting 38.5% on 2s and 10-22 on FTs in the 2nd half is more frustrating to me. In the paint you've got to find a way to get body contact and draw fouls and not let WVU's bigs change your shot or put yourself into a position where officials aren't going to give you a call. I thought we did that far too often. Its inexcusable to only get 2 points off of 9 offensive boards in the first half.
Finally, you absolutely must make FTs against WVU because you know you are going to the line a lot against them. I'm not advocating that we make 80-90% either, even if we just shoot around our average (70%) we have 5 more points and it completely changes the dynamics down the stretch.
IMHO, those two factors had more of an impact on losing this game than the TOs. And the TO problems were really bad.
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Screening against that press would have compounded the problem you dumbasses
Yeah, moving/cutting was as much of a problem as screening. I think you can use screening and cutting off of screens to relieve pressure though.
Also, while the TOs were extremely frustrating, I'm still more upset about the things that we can control. Shooting 38.5% on 2s and 10-22 on FTs in the 2nd half is more frustrating to me. In the paint you've got to find a way to get body contact and draw fouls and not let WVU's bigs change your shot or put yourself into a position where officials aren't going to give you a call. I thought we did that far too often. Its inexcusable to only get 2 points off of 9 offensive boards in the first half.
Finally, you absolutely must make FTs against WVU because you know you are going to the line a lot against them. I'm not advocating that we make 80-90% either, even if we just shoot around our average (70%) we have 5 more points and it completely changes the dynamics down the stretch.
IMHO, those two factors had more of an impact on losing this game than the TOs. And the TO problems were really bad.
I think turnovers are easier to control than shooting percentage, and they were worse than turnovers in a typical game because so many of them came in the backcourt. It was probably the worst I have ever seen a college team handle full court pressure, honestly.
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Screening against that press would have compounded the problem you dumbasses
Yeah, moving/cutting was as much of a problem as screening. I think you can use screening and cutting off of screens to relieve pressure though.
Also, while the TOs were extremely frustrating, I'm still more upset about the things that we can control. Shooting 38.5% on 2s and 10-22 on FTs in the 2nd half is more frustrating to me. In the paint you've got to find a way to get body contact and draw fouls and not let WVU's bigs change your shot or put yourself into a position where officials aren't going to give you a call. I thought we did that far too often. Its inexcusable to only get 2 points off of 9 offensive boards in the first half.
Finally, you absolutely must make FTs against WVU because you know you are going to the line a lot against them. I'm not advocating that we make 80-90% either, even if we just shoot around our average (70%) we have 5 more points and it completely changes the dynamics down the stretch.
IMHO, those two factors had more of an impact on losing this game than the TOs. And the TO problems were really bad.
I think turnovers are easier to control than shooting percentage, and they were worse than turnovers in a typical game because so many of them came in the backcourt. It was probably the worst I have ever seen a college team handle full court pressure, honestly.
WVU only scored 11 points off of TOs though. They got run outs only a handful of times.
Now, each TO is a missed opportunity on offense for us, so that still hurts.
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Yeah, WVU getting points is not the worst part of the TO problem in this case. It was that in a low possession, close game we needed those opportunities to get to the FT line or to score in the half court. Both of which required more possessions than normal for us to score because we weren't shooting very well. They are all problems and are all in some sense related, but the TO/pressure seems like the easiest thing to control. I mean FT shooting is very weird and I don't know how you "control" that. The 2pt% is obviously related to their fouling/pressure.
It really is simple enough to say that the possession starts with inbounding the ball.
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Screening against that press would have compounded the problem you dumbasses
When you screen on a press the expectation is not that the person being screened for will be open but the person who sets the screen and then rolls off. On a press, whether it is a zone press or a man-to-man press the defense usually switches screens so the screener is instructed to roll to the inbounder. On that particular press with someone on the ball, I would have had a play that screened the man guarding the inbounds pass. While I think you should almost always use screens to get the ball in, there is a reasonable argument to be had for just making hard cuts. Going the entire game without making an adjustment when we struggled getting the ball in for 40 minutes is completely inexcusable.
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Yeah, WVU getting points is not the worst part of the TO problem in this case. It was that in a low possession, close game we needed those opportunities to get to the FT line or to score in the half court. Both of which required more possessions than normal for us to score because we weren't shooting very well. They are all problems and are all in some sense related, but the TO/pressure seems like the easiest thing to control. I mean FT shooting is very weird and I don't know how you "control" that. The 2pt% is obviously related to their fouling/pressure.
It really is simple enough to say that the possession starts with inbounding the ball.
Good points. The entire thing was a cluster last night.
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Screening against that press would have compounded the problem you dumbasses
Yeah, moving/cutting was as much of a problem as screening. I think you can use screening and cutting off of screens to relieve pressure though.
Also, while the TOs were extremely frustrating, I'm still more upset about the things that we can control. Shooting 38.5% on 2s and 10-22 on FTs in the 2nd half is more frustrating to me. In the paint you've got to find a way to get body contact and draw fouls and not let WVU's bigs change your shot or put yourself into a position where officials aren't going to give you a call. I thought we did that far too often. Its inexcusable to only get 2 points off of 9 offensive boards in the first half.
Finally, you absolutely must make FTs against WVU because you know you are going to the line a lot against them. I'm not advocating that we make 80-90% either, even if we just shoot around our average (70%) we have 5 more points and it completely changes the dynamics down the stretch.
IMHO, those two factors had more of an impact on losing this game than the TOs. And the TO problems were really bad.
I think turnovers are easier to control than shooting percentage, and they were worse than turnovers in a typical game because so many of them came in the backcourt. It was probably the worst I have ever seen a college team handle full court pressure, honestly.
WVU only scored 11 points off of TOs though. They got run outs only a handful of times.
Now, each TO is a missed opportunity on offense for us, so that still hurts.
Yeah, it's amazing to me that the game stayed as close as it was when we had so much trouble getting the ball to the frontcourt.
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Did we do something different during the first 5 minutes or so when we built a nice lead, or did WVU just change how they were applying pressure? I missed the beginning of the game.
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Yeah, it's amazing to me that the game stayed as close as it was when we had so much trouble getting the ball to the frontcourt.
Well, that's WVU. They threw it away 20 times themselves and decided to chuck 17 threes while only making 4.
Also, I get that you don't always "control" shooting, but making only 38.5% of your twos is something you should have more control of, especially with many of those shots at the rim.
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Some of the time this season a player has been open the second the official hands us the ball. Then we feel obligated to run some terrible inbounds play instead of just getting the ball in.
WV's big standing in front of the ball so they have time to set up the press was a good move.
I've noticed this quite a bit. Which makes it even more awesome when we end up running into each other when trying to screen on the inbounds. :ROFL:
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Did we do something different during the first 5 minutes or so when we built a nice lead, or did WVU just change how they were applying pressure? I missed the beginning of the game.
They simply were not scoring as much. The best way to play against good pressure defense is to not let them score and set their defense.
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we were in the double bonus with 11 minutes left in the 2nd half. and lost. LOL.
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Screening against that press would have compounded the problem you dumbasses
It embarrassing if we can't win enough one on ones to get the ball in. Spacing is important tho.
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I bet we did hold practice. If we didn't I think some serious evaluations need to be made by Currie and Co. I mean how can you not have practice during the heart of the conference schedule? It's unthinkable. I know some of you have a hardened heart when it comes to oscar, but come on!
Agree. My guess is we had multiple practices. To think otherwise shows that the OP probably never played or coached basketball and doesn't really understand how D1 college athletics work. Not trying to be mean, just being honest.
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the Hail Mary offense was ingenious
Yeah. Also, Big Meat trying to throw the ball off of a defender at the half court line is something I have never seen before.
Don't penalize thinking outside the box.
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I suppose if we wanted to get trapped more we could have set more screens.
Our players do not come to the ball, do not move to create space and do not cut hard. You are never going to be able to run anything if you don't do that.
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I bet we did hold practice. If we didn't I think some serious evaluations need to be made by Currie and Co. I mean how can you not have practice during the heart of the conference schedule? It's unthinkable. I know some of you have a hardened heart when it comes to oscar, but come on!
Agree. My guess is we had multiple practices. To think otherwise shows that the OP probably never played or coached basketball and doesn't really understand how D1 college athletics work. Not trying to be mean, just being honest.
The naïveté on this board shocks me sometimes.
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I suppose if we wanted to get trapped more we could have set more screens.
Our players do not come to the ball, do not move to create space and do not cut hard. You are never going to be able to run anything if you don't do that.
All true on your second point. On the first point it seemed to me that we were fine after the first pass, but you very well may be right, we may have struggled with traps if we set screens.