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General Discussion => Essentially Flyertalk => Topic started by: sonofdaxjones on September 18, 2013, 10:48:53 AM

Title: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: sonofdaxjones on September 18, 2013, 10:48:53 AM
K-State is asking the Regents for money to develop the architectural plans to renovate and expand Seaton Hall. 

Also, K-State is asking the Regents to roll up improvements to Kramer (I think it was Kramer) and the construction of a new residence hall into one $70 million dollar package (funded by K-State).

K-State is also asking the Regents to approve about $15 million in financing to go along with $35 million in private funds for the new Business building. 


Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: mocat on September 18, 2013, 10:50:53 AM
 :Woot:
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: Tobias on September 18, 2013, 10:53:55 AM
more like Stud Hall
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: Pett on September 18, 2013, 10:55:09 AM
Kramer definitely needs the renovation. Less than half the size of the Derb at the moment
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: GoodForAnother on September 18, 2013, 11:16:14 AM
derb is so elite
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: yoga-like_abana on September 18, 2013, 11:17:49 AM
but what about our admission rates?
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: mocat on September 18, 2013, 12:46:49 PM
Kramer definitely needs the renovation. Less than half the size of the Derb at the moment

Kramer needs to be demolished and just start over with a 20-story superawesome dorm skyscraper. Isn't there a lack of dorm space right now? bomb that disgusting dark red pile of bricks and build a shiny new limestone-y one
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: ednksu on September 18, 2013, 12:54:13 PM
Kramer definitely needs the renovation. Less than half the size of the Derb at the moment

Kramer needs to be demolished and just start over with a 20-story superawesome dorm skyscraper. Isn't there a lack of dorm space right now? bomb that disgusting dark red pile of bricks and build a shiny new limestone-y one
my understanding is that the new dorm will be on the old Kramer footprint.  Others can correct me here.


Maybe Eisenhower can get a rough ridin' HVAC system that works.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: Brock Landers on September 18, 2013, 12:59:32 PM
derb is so elite


Best part about shacking up with a Ford Hall filly was going over to the Derb to eat instead of Kramer.  Then again any reason to get the hell away from Marlatt Penitentiary was fine.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: sonofdaxjones on September 18, 2013, 01:00:07 PM
but what about our admission rates and my anger issues?

 :surprised:
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: yoga-like_abana on September 18, 2013, 01:00:47 PM
wut?
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: Emo EMAW on September 18, 2013, 01:01:13 PM
derb is so elite


Best part about shacking up with a Ford Hall filly was going over to the Derb to eat instead of Kramer.  Then again any reason to get the hell away from Marlatt Penitentiary was fine.

Can confirm.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: 3maw on September 18, 2013, 01:11:13 PM
also sure its luked, but phase 4 of the engineering building (durland, rathbone, fiedler) is having groundbreaking this fall. emaw's curb appeal will go up 20x at least after this is complete. the new building is stellar.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: mocat on September 19, 2013, 07:22:36 AM
also sure its luked, but phase 4 of the engineering building (durland, rathbone, fiedler) is having groundbreaking this fall. emaw's curb appeal will go up 20x at least after this is complete. the new building is stellar.

:woot:
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: ShellShock on September 19, 2013, 08:26:16 AM
Can also confirm the boss-ness of the new engineering building. The new dorms however I have mixed feelings about. IMO, knock down that red brick eye sore and build back a slightly larger building to serve the same function. Then on the other side of campus by the Derb, build a huge parking garage in the north section of the current one and then build a giant new dorm/cafeteria complex similar to the derb. There's plenty of space if the parking situation can be worked out.

Side note: Before the current round of discussions were happening (and also when I was still in college and working at facilities), they were talking about putting a new dorm right behind Waters Hall in that parking lot. Thank god they nuked that idea before it was released....can you imagine the backlash that would have caused?
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on September 19, 2013, 08:30:07 AM
Can also confirm the boss-ness of the new engineering building. The new dorms however I have mixed feelings about. IMO, knock down that red brick eye sore and build back a slightly larger building to serve the same function. Then on the other side of campus by the Derb, build a huge parking garage in the north section of the current one and then build a giant new dorm/cafeteria complex similar to the derb. There's plenty of space if the parking situation can be worked out.

Side note: Before the current round of discussions were happening (and also when I was still in college and working at facilities), they were talking about putting a new dorm right behind Waters Hall in that parking lot. Thank god they nuked that idea before it was released....can you imagine the backlash that would have caused?

That sounds like a pretty good spot for a new dorm to me. :dunno:
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: WildcatNkilt on September 19, 2013, 09:20:36 AM
Can confirm that technology is going to blow ass again in KSU's new Engineering building. 

When it comes to classroom technology, KSU is behind the 8-ball and getting lapped by new buildings at KU, UMKC, etc.  Hopefully they put more effort into classroom technology for the business building and see that the new classroom design trend involves scale-up, collaboration type classrooms. 

To put it in perspective, KU's new engineering building is going to be much more innovative than K-States.  KU is spending over $2mill on classroom technology alone.  Props to KU though for not having a IT group on campus that refuses to step outside the box and do a little research.

UMKC spent over $2.5mill on classroom technology alone on the new Bloch school of business.  Not only does the new learning style require more technology, but it also attracts students who were raised in an age of smart phones, tablets, smart boards in classrooms, etc. 

UMKC also spent over $1mill on technology for their new library (auditorium classrooms).

I love that K-State is building new buildings, but if they are going to half-ass the learning experience by putting in old-fashion auditorium classrooms they might as well extend their Top 50 University in 2025 vision to 2050.  But thats our KSTATEO!     
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: steve dave on September 19, 2013, 09:22:32 AM
 :frown:
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on September 19, 2013, 09:24:28 AM
The learning technology I had in high school was about 100x better than what I had in college, but I would say the quality of my high school education was pretty shitty and the quality of the college education was very good. :dunno:

I would rather build nice new buildings than waste money on crap like smart boards. We have a growing enrollment and we need extra classroom space.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: ew2x4 on September 19, 2013, 09:28:50 AM
The Seaton renovation has been in process for a while. They selected the firm working on it and have done very schematic designs. The dean, Tim De Noble has been talking to alums about it for a while trying to raise money. Good to know they are finally going to the regents. I know they were waiting until they were sure they would get the money.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: WildcatNkilt on September 19, 2013, 09:36:41 AM
The learning technology I had in high school was about 100x better than what I had in college, but I would say the quality of my high school education was pretty shitty and the quality of the college education was very good. :dunno:

I would rather build nice new buildings than waste money on crap like smart boards. We have a growing enrollment and we need extra classroom space.

Yea it's not "smart boards" as much as the learning style.  The new learning style is called "Scale-Up."

The Scale-Up style has been proven to help students learn more in a semester than the traditional auditorium style classroom.  It allows the student to collaborate more and listen to boring professor less.  It helps bring the small, personal classroom feel into a large room with a lot of students.

(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.niu.edu%2Fnnl%2Fprojects%2Fimages%2Fcole%2FSCALE-UP_Classroom_1.jpg&hash=ecb295dd846e0a849d57778a8a3e1b43a6cc8e4c)
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fund.edu%2Fscale-up%2F_files%2Fimages%2Fafter-large.jpg&hash=31bd7a8a5c9e0487af905a9594d36d37a94f5351)
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fserc.carleton.edu%2Fimages%2Fsp%2Fpkal%2Fscaleup%2Fmit_classroom.jpg&hash=8dca4dbd2e433dfdd1e210233395ac9310f77df5)

This model is growing rapidly across the U.S., but the hayseeds at KSU are having a hard time adopting it.  As a former engineering student, we were taught to collaborate and work as a team to do homework assignments, etc.  Now, it is being implemented in the classroom and we're too cheap to work towards that.  Is it expensive?....yea very but it's also engaging and mimics real-world experiences in the workplace.

The goal is to be able to plug your personal laptop at your table and collaborate on the display near your group.  The instructor also had the ability to take any student's laptop and send the content to every screen in the classroom.  The instructor usually is stationed in the middle of the classroom and can send his content to every display if he wanted to.  It's pretty bad-ass.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: sonofdaxjones on September 19, 2013, 09:41:32 AM
As someone who has been engaged in providing technology solutions for schools (but not things like White Boards) I can't tell you how many times I've talked to IT staffs who just roll their eyes at things like Interactive White Boards and group collaboration and how the money that pays for those robs money from core IT infrastructure improvements and upgrades.    Maintaining those systems with only a finite number of human resources becomes more cumbersome as they age, and maintenance contracts are expensive. 

IT Staffs would much rather improve core connectivity, improve things like the WLAN experience to facilite a secure BYOD environment, as well as upgrade server capacity or the cloud experience that can drive content to the individual user.

Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: EMAWican on September 19, 2013, 09:48:21 AM
I doubt that "Scale-Up" model teaches students how to understand twenty-odd accents. #2025 
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: sonofdaxjones on September 19, 2013, 10:03:45 AM
Here's what I see when I see things like "scale up".   A group where 1 or 2 are serious and do all the work, the rest goof-offs, then a lot of fighting about who did all the work, and then even more when the outcome sucks.

Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: Tobias on September 19, 2013, 10:08:25 AM
i think i'm a classroom tuck :frown:
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: michigancat on September 19, 2013, 10:10:27 AM
I'm guessing kilt sells smart boards for a living
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on September 19, 2013, 10:11:04 AM
I think the "scale up" thing would be great for a lot of classes, but the engineering types who frequent Seaton don't seem like the general personality type who would benefit from sitting in a group during a lecture.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: WildcatNkilt on September 19, 2013, 10:18:39 AM
As someone who has been engaged in providing technology solutions for schools (but not things like White Boards) I can't tell you how many times I've talked to IT staffs who just roll their eyes at things like Interactive White Boards and group collaboration and how the money that pays for those robs money from core IT infrastructure improvements and upgrades.    Maintaining those systems with only a finite number of human resources becomes more cumbersome as they age, and maintenance contracts are expensive. 

IT Staffs would much rather improve core connectivity, improve things like the WLAN experience to facilite a secure BYOD environment, as well as upgrade server capacity or the cloud experience that can drive content to the individual user.

Right, but none of the money for a new building is used to improve core infrastructure.  All maintenance contracts would initially be rolled into the cost of the building, and not into the campus IT's yearly budget.  And for future maintenance contracts, the school of "x" could just as easily roll it into their budget instead of it coming out of the general IT budget. 

My whole point is K-State is KSTATEO'ing this up before the building is even built.  They will be behind on classroom experience compared to other universities when the doors first open.  Again, a lot of it is driven from the college so maybe fingers should be pointed at the School of Engineering and not Kansas State University for half-assing it.  I hope that the K-State's school of business visits new higher education buildings before breaking ground on a $30mill building to ensure they are staying competitive.  Lecture classrooms are becoming the thing of the past.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on September 19, 2013, 10:22:58 AM
I always preferred professors who used the chalkboard instead of powerpoint, anyway. If it's important enough for the professor to write on the board, it's important enough for me to write it in my notes. I always just kind of checked out during powerpoint lectures. I would imagine a video presentation on the monitor at a table around 6 other people with the professor behind me would be even worse.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: WildcatNkilt on September 19, 2013, 10:26:37 AM
I think the "scale up" thing would be great for a lot of classes, but the engineering types who frequent Seaton don't seem like the general personality type who would benefit from sitting in a group during a lecture.

Thats whats great is the new teaching style isn't as much as a lecture as it is more of a time for the instructor to do question/answer sessions and cover topics that were not understood previously.

A good example of how these classrooms are being used:

1)  Professor assigns students to read chapter X through Y before next class and take a 20 question quiz before class.
2)  Before next class, professor reviews quiz results from the students.
3)  Professor noticed many students missed questions 11 and 17.
4)  Next class, professor covers topics that were questions 11 and 17 for first 15 minutes of class so students can better understand.
5)  Rest of class is collaborative teaching/lecturing/examples, etc.

The biggest challenge across universities is getting the older professors to adopt the new method of teaching. 

As far as being used in an engineering classroom, this is one of the first types of education to adopt the method.  Many engineers on here I'm sure can attest to the fact that engineers do not work alone.  There are a lot of collaborative efforts in order to achieve an end result.  KU's new engineering building will have at least six 60+ student classrooms that are of the Scale-Up type. 
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on September 19, 2013, 10:32:05 AM
Don't labs accomplish the same thing, though?
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: EMAWican on September 19, 2013, 10:38:24 AM
Can you imagine engi-nerds in the scale-up model?  PPD was bad enough. 
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: WildcatNkilt on September 19, 2013, 10:39:29 AM
Don't labs accomplish the same thing, though?

Yes and no.  Labs can be more hands on.  Additionally, not every class has a lab.

This is a very good read:

http://www.ncsu.edu/per/scaleup.html (http://www.ncsu.edu/per/scaleup.html)

Quote
Rigorous evaluations of learning have been conducted in parallel with the curriculum development effort. Besides hundreds of hours of classroom video and audio recordings, we also have conducted numerous interviews and focus groups, conducted many conceptual learning assessments (using nationally-recognized instruments in a pretest/posttest protocol), and collected portfolios of student work. We have data comparing nearly 16,000 traditional and SCALE-UP students. Our findings can be summarized as the following:

    Ability to solve problems is improved
    Conceptual understanding is increased
    Attitudes are improved
    Failure rates are drastically reduced, especially for women and minorities
    "At risk" students do better in later engineering statics classes
    Conceptual understanding is increased
    Attitudes are improved
    Failure rates are drastically reduced, especially for women and minorities
    "At risk" students do better in later engineering statics classes

   


Quote
More than 50 colleges and universities across the US have adapted the SCALE-UP approach to their own institutions. In all cases, the basic idea remains the same: get the students working together to examine something interesting. That frees the instructor to roam about the room, asking questions and stirring up debates. Classes in physics, chemistry, math, engineering, and even literature have been taught this way. If you want more information, please contact Dr. Robert Beichner.


Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on September 19, 2013, 10:40:10 AM
Can you imagine engi-nerds in the scale-up model?  PPD was bad enough.

LOL, PPD was awful.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: WildcatNkilt on September 19, 2013, 10:51:10 AM
I'm guessing kilt sells smart boards for a living

Ha...no.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: sonofdaxjones on September 19, 2013, 10:51:26 AM
As someone who has been engaged in providing technology solutions for schools (but not things like White Boards) I can't tell you how many times I've talked to IT staffs who just roll their eyes at things like Interactive White Boards and group collaboration and how the money that pays for those robs money from core IT infrastructure improvements and upgrades.    Maintaining those systems with only a finite number of human resources becomes more cumbersome as they age, and maintenance contracts are expensive. 

IT Staffs would much rather improve core connectivity, improve things like the WLAN experience to facilite a secure BYOD environment, as well as upgrade server capacity or the cloud experience that can drive content to the individual user.

Right, but none of the money for a new building is used to improve core infrastructure.  All maintenance contracts would initially be rolled into the cost of the building, and not into the campus IT's yearly budget.  And for future maintenance contracts, the school of "x" could just as easily roll it into their budget instead of it coming out of the general IT budget. 

My whole point is K-State is KSTATEO'ing this up before the building is even built.  They will be behind on classroom experience compared to other universities when the doors first open.  Again, a lot of it is driven from the college so maybe fingers should be pointed at the School of Engineering and not Kansas State University for half-assing it.  I hope that the K-State's school of business visits new higher education buildings before breaking ground on a $30mill building to ensure they are staying competitive.  Lecture classrooms are becoming the thing of the past.

The other issue is these are very "du juor" systems, that get phased out quickly, or even worse the company that provided them either goes out of business or gets bought out and the new company phases out the product for the latest and greatest, and the product life cycle is getting shorter for the established companies. 

Classrooms across the land are littered with the remenants of the hot technology of the day, it cost a ton of money, and a few years later, nobody is even using it anymore.

 
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: hatingfrancisco on September 19, 2013, 10:54:19 AM
As someone who has been engaged in providing technology solutions for schools (but not things like White Boards) I can't tell you how many times I've talked to IT staffs who just roll their eyes at things like Interactive White Boards and group collaboration and how the money that pays for those robs money from core IT infrastructure improvements and upgrades.    Maintaining those systems with only a finite number of human resources becomes more cumbersome as they age, and maintenance contracts are expensive. 

IT Staffs would much rather improve core connectivity, improve things like the WLAN experience to facilite a secure BYOD environment, as well as upgrade server capacity or the cloud experience that can drive content to the individual user.

Right, but none of the money for a new building is used to improve core infrastructure.  All maintenance contracts would initially be rolled into the cost of the building, and not into the campus IT's yearly budget.  And for future maintenance contracts, the school of "x" could just as easily roll it into their budget instead of it coming out of the general IT budget. 

My whole point is K-State is KSTATEO'ing this up before the building is even built.  They will be behind on classroom experience compared to other universities when the doors first open.  Again, a lot of it is driven from the college so maybe fingers should be pointed at the School of Engineering and not Kansas State University for half-assing it.  I hope that the K-State's school of business visits new higher education buildings before breaking ground on a $30mill building to ensure they are staying competitive.  Lecture classrooms are becoming the thing of the past.

Pretty heads on here guys.  The core infrastructure is usually the last thing that comes to mind when these new buildings are built.  And seeing as how it's not factored into the budget for these new buildings and technological classrooms it becomes pretty damn difficult to facilitate the changes and therefore someone is left with egg on their faces when it doesn't work.

Case in point being this sememster a professor decided that he wanted to use a "clicker" service in his normal classroom activities (sort of a gameshow type question and response app where students use their phones to buzz in with correct answers).  It's something that would have been a great idea but unfortunately this wouldn't work in an area that didn't support the wireless density for a class of this size (150 or so students). 

There are changes being made across campus in regards to technology classrooms, but you can't snap your fingers and turn a room in Thompson to a tech class overnight.  It takes time and money.

The good news is K-State was awarded a major grant that will allow us to overhaul most of our core networking infrastructure and push us into some pretty cool new technology like SDN and Openflow.  Those changes are going to start happening here pretty soon.

Already the West Stadium Center is one of the first sports venues in the country to offer 802.11ac capable wifi. I know that there are talks to try to come up with a solution to offer these services throughout all stadium and Bramlage as well. 



Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: hemmy on September 19, 2013, 10:56:48 AM
Can you imagine engi-nerds in the scale-up model?  PPD was bad enough. 

Well PPD was a completely worthless class.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: Pett on September 19, 2013, 10:58:56 AM
derb is so elite


Best part about shacking up with a Ford Hall filly was going over to the Derb to eat instead of Kramer.  Then again any reason to get the hell away from Marlatt Penitentiary was fine.

Can confirm.
Or you can have the best of both worlds and live in Haymaker :love:
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: WildcatNkilt on September 19, 2013, 11:03:41 AM
As someone who has been engaged in providing technology solutions for schools (but not things like White Boards) I can't tell you how many times I've talked to IT staffs who just roll their eyes at things like Interactive White Boards and group collaboration and how the money that pays for those robs money from core IT infrastructure improvements and upgrades.    Maintaining those systems with only a finite number of human resources becomes more cumbersome as they age, and maintenance contracts are expensive. 

IT Staffs would much rather improve core connectivity, improve things like the WLAN experience to facilite a secure BYOD environment, as well as upgrade server capacity or the cloud experience that can drive content to the individual user.

Right, but none of the money for a new building is used to improve core infrastructure.  All maintenance contracts would initially be rolled into the cost of the building, and not into the campus IT's yearly budget.  And for future maintenance contracts, the school of "x" could just as easily roll it into their budget instead of it coming out of the general IT budget. 

My whole point is K-State is KSTATEO'ing this up before the building is even built.  They will be behind on classroom experience compared to other universities when the doors first open.  Again, a lot of it is driven from the college so maybe fingers should be pointed at the School of Engineering and not Kansas State University for half-assing it.  I hope that the K-State's school of business visits new higher education buildings before breaking ground on a $30mill building to ensure they are staying competitive.  Lecture classrooms are becoming the thing of the past.

The other issue is these are very "du juor" systems, that get phased out quickly, or even worse the company that provided them either goes out of business or gets bought out and the new company phases out the product for the latest and greatest, and the product life cycle is getting shorter for the established companies. 

Classrooms across the land are littered with the remenants of the hot technology of the day, it cost a ton of money, and a few years later, nobody is even using it anymore.

 

I agree with this 100% which makes the BYOD type of designs more important.  The technology needs to have the ability to adapt to new as well as play with old.  A lot of the newer technology out there has that ability (if designed properly). 

Many "mom and pop" companies tend to trunk-slam bids in order to win the jobs.  Unless a consultant is brought in, that will create shitty designs from a company that could go out of business from a few minor mistakes. 

A lot of what you said above is preventable...but it all comes with a price.  Rooms should be designed so when technology is updated it's not a complete rip/replace scenario.  Sadly, most of the time it's not. 

Whats great about the digital age is that a lot of technology now days is distributed over category cable, infrastructure that will not be going away any time soon.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: cfbandyman on September 19, 2013, 11:05:15 AM
As someone who has been engaged in providing technology solutions for schools (but not things like White Boards) I can't tell you how many times I've talked to IT staffs who just roll their eyes at things like Interactive White Boards and group collaboration and how the money that pays for those robs money from core IT infrastructure improvements and upgrades.    Maintaining those systems with only a finite number of human resources becomes more cumbersome as they age, and maintenance contracts are expensive. 

IT Staffs would much rather improve core connectivity, improve things like the WLAN experience to facilite a secure BYOD environment, as well as upgrade server capacity or the cloud experience that can drive content to the individual user.

Right, but none of the money for a new building is used to improve core infrastructure.  All maintenance contracts would initially be rolled into the cost of the building, and not into the campus IT's yearly budget.  And for future maintenance contracts, the school of "x" could just as easily roll it into their budget instead of it coming out of the general IT budget. 

My whole point is K-State is KSTATEO'ing this up before the building is even built.  They will be behind on classroom experience compared to other universities when the doors first open.  Again, a lot of it is driven from the college so maybe fingers should be pointed at the School of Engineering and not Kansas State University for half-assing it.  I hope that the K-State's school of business visits new higher education buildings before breaking ground on a $30mill building to ensure they are staying competitive.  Lecture classrooms are becoming the thing of the past.

Pretty heads on here guys.  The core infrastructure is usually the last thing that comes to mind when these new buildings are built.  And seeing as how it's not factored into the budget for these new buildings and technological classrooms it becomes pretty damn difficult to facilitate the changes and therefore someone is left with egg on their faces when it doesn't work.

Case in point being this sememster a professor decided that he wanted to use a "clicker" service in his normal classroom activities (sort of a gameshow type question and response app where students use their phones to buzz in with correct answers).  It's something that would have been a great idea but unfortunately this wouldn't work in an area that didn't support the wireless density for a class of this size (150 or so students). 

There are changes being made across campus in regards to technology classrooms, but you can't snap your fingers and turn a room in Thompson to a tech class overnight.  It takes time and money.

The good news is K-State was awarded a major grant that will allow us to overhaul most of our core networking infrastructure and push us into some pretty cool new technology like SDN and Openflow.  Those changes are going to start happening here pretty soon.

Already the West Stadium Center is one of the first sports venues in the country to offer 802.11ac capable wifi. I know that there are talks to try to come up with a solution to offer these services throughout all stadium and Bramlage as well.

What immediately come to mind is Fielder Auditorium and their hard lined Ethernet ports built into the desks, obviously no one one uses those within a few years after they're installed because of wifi. I know they served a purpose for a bit but now it's just a wasted (albeit fairly small) cost. Hopefully they're thinking of future proofing, or at least being flexible to allow for future modifications with the new buildings so they can stay relevant longer. 
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: Belvis Noland on September 19, 2013, 11:06:38 AM
Let's please focus on what's most important...  who's building will look best from the outside?  Our or KU's? 

I mean, scale-up sounds neat, but I don't really give a crap.  I just want to see a badass building as I'm crusing by on my way to badass BSFS for 8 games a year. 
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on September 19, 2013, 11:11:22 AM
What immediately come to mind is Fielder Auditorium and their hard lined Ethernet ports built into the desks, obviously no one one uses those within a few years after they're installed because of wifi. I know they served a purpose for a bit but now it's just a wasted (albeit fairly small) cost. Hopefully they're thinking of future proofing, or at least being flexible to allow for future modifications with the new buildings so they can stay relevant longer.

When I was in college, the ethernet jacks in Fiedler Auditorium were never used because almost nobody took their laptop to class.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: hatingfrancisco on September 19, 2013, 11:13:40 AM
What immediately come to mind is Fielder Auditorium and their hard lined Ethernet ports built into the desks, obviously no one one uses those within a few years after they're installed because of wifi. I know they served a purpose for a bit but now it's just a wasted (albeit fairly small) cost. Hopefully they're thinking of future proofing, or at least being flexible to allow for future modifications with the new buildings so they can stay relevant longer.

The biggest thing is density.  The number one issue with wireless on Campus is there aren't enough access points installed to support everyone and their 3 devices everywhere across campus.  It's being addressed but as with anything there are speed bumps (outdated cabling, architecture, etc) so it's not an easy task. 

New buildings are easy as they tend to get the current latest and greatest.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: WildcatNkilt on September 19, 2013, 11:21:15 AM
Let's please focus on what's most important...  who's building will look best from the outside?  Our or KU's? 

I mean, scale-up sounds neat, but I don't really give a crap.  I just want to see a badass building as I'm crusing by on my way to badass BSFS for 8 games a year.

KU Engineering Expansion
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.engr.ku.edu%2Fimages%2Fmedia%2FLEEP2_front.jpg&hash=38b0d271e0ef14a435856eb605bcd1624dcb9b3e)

KSU Engineering Expansion
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.engg.ksu.edu%2Ffiles%2Fengg%2Fhighlights%2Fphaseiv-highlight.png&hash=688d6048973a38a59d26466b57d2d25957dfa7dc)

Ours will look nicer, but KU's expansion is much much bigger.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: EMAWican on September 19, 2013, 11:23:15 AM
What good is the latest and greatest teaching "technology" when over half the engineering professors struggle to turn on an overhead projector?  Christ.     

The main thing is outside aesthetics and addressing over-crowding within classrooms and labs (and just having a computer for students to access).  K-State isn't MIT, and that's a good thing. 
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: sonofdaxjones on September 19, 2013, 11:25:02 AM
Captain Obvious point of the day is that the latest WLAN stuff from all the usual suspects can support the density.    Just need to make sure the core switching can support the AP's (I see it all the time, entities plugging in AP's that have 3-600 Mbps plus throughput capability, and they plug them into 10/100 switch ports that don't have enough POE power to fully power the AP itself . . . hello!!).

It's not as sexy, but I'd rather see all the collborative stuff in the back office and made acceessible through a BYOD and the network via a portal/app whatever.   When I start seeing the flatscreens and the customized furniture the alarm bells start going off.   Looks great though, probably easier to sell to dumb incoming Freshman and their parents.



Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: Belvis Noland on September 19, 2013, 11:26:54 AM

K-State isn't MIT, and that's a good thing.


MIT is among the most prestigous engineering instutions in the U.S. 

So, why is this a good thing?
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on September 19, 2013, 11:27:31 AM
Captain Obvious point of the day is that the latest WLAN stuff from all the usual suspects can support the density.    Just need to make sure the core switching can support the AP's (I see it all the time, entities plugging in AP's that have 3-600 Mbps plus throughput capability, and they plug them into 10/100 switch ports that don't have enough POE power to fully power the AP itself . . . hello!!).

It's not as sexy, but I'd rather see all the collborative stuff in the back office and made acceessible through a BYOD and the network via a portal/app whatever.   When I start seeing the flatscreens and the customized furniture the alarm bells start going off.   Looks great though, probably easier to sell to dumb incoming Freshman and their parents.

I think all of the flatscreens and nice furniture seem kind of high-schooly.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: EMAWican on September 19, 2013, 11:33:43 AM

K-State isn't MIT, and that's a good thing.


MIT is among the most prestigous engineering instutions in the U.S. 

So, why is this a good thing?

Do I even have to argue this?  If you want to be an engineer, let me know how that 8.2% acceptance rate and $42k+ in tuition per year works out.  But they have cool tech-ey classrooms and scale-up, tho.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: Belvis Noland on September 19, 2013, 11:41:06 AM
somebody post some Seaton renderings. 

Does this video represent what's actually been designed?  http://vimeo.com/62806749

Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: WildcatNkilt on September 19, 2013, 11:41:57 AM
What good is the latest and greatest teaching "technology" when over half the engineering professors struggle to turn on an overhead projector?  Christ.     

The main thing is outside aesthetics and addressing over-crowding within classrooms and labs (and just having a computer for students to access).  K-State isn't MIT, and that's a good thing.

Top 50 research university isn't happening unless the university is proactive in the way the new generation is educated.  Technology is and will always be the future.  If you read the link I posted below, you will see how the different style of teaching is connecting to the newer generation of higher-ed students.

As far as BYOD type stuff, video and audio will always reliably distribute through wired connections (since a lot of it is HD content).  The wireless video/audio content presentation is not here yet because it is too unreliable.  So classrooms are adapted to BYOD through wired video matrices.  Some places have wireless video distribution, but it's powerpoint type content only.  Plenty of instructors like to distribute video and clips in their lectures so wireless can sometimes limit this. 
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: 3maw on September 19, 2013, 11:48:30 AM
Can you imagine engi-nerds in the scale-up model?  PPD was bad enough. 

Well PPD was a completely worthless class.

RIP, PPD!  :billdance:
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on September 19, 2013, 11:50:46 AM
What good is the latest and greatest teaching "technology" when over half the engineering professors struggle to turn on an overhead projector?  Christ.     

The main thing is outside aesthetics and addressing over-crowding within classrooms and labs (and just having a computer for students to access).  K-State isn't MIT, and that's a good thing.

Top 50 research university isn't happening unless the university is proactive in the way the new generation is educated.  Technology is and will always be the future.  If you read the link I posted below, you will see how the different style of teaching is connecting to the newer generation of higher-ed students.

As far as BYOD type stuff, video and audio will always reliably distribute through wired connections (since a lot of it is HD content).  The wireless video/audio content presentation is not here yet because it is too unreliable.  So classrooms are adapted to BYOD through wired video matrices.  Some places have wireless video distribution, but it's powerpoint type content only.  Plenty of instructors like to distribute video and clips in their lectures so wireless can sometimes limit this.

I'm having a pretty tough time making a connection between classroom technology and research. Are you saying that our enrollment is going to drop if we don't make our classrooms more like high schools, therefore we will lose tuition dollars?
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: 3maw on September 19, 2013, 11:56:43 AM
BTW, yeah "technology wise" ksu engg might be behind because we dont have collaborative classrooms, but its also based on teacher lecture style. 90% of profs in engineering are actually receiving reviews from students above 75% overall, teaching style included. why would they move from chalkboard and notes to ipad and expensive stuff if they don't need it? yeah, sure, there are some classes where you NEED technology (electrical design labs, programming, graphics) but for the most part its actually not preferred. instead they're going to have way more collaboration areas and classrooms where groups or teams can work together, as well as greatly expand the peer tutoring area. Phase 4 will also focus on recruitment... right now you walk into the building and your like wtf where do i go. now there will be a welcome center right near the deans office.

also, the design teams also get a huge help. they all get basically the whole basement to themselves, not having to share it with classes, and they all get they're own "bays" with more collaboration area. AND computer science finally gets to join the big boy engineers over so that we have one building for (almost) the whole college.

really, the expansion is not about advancing technology, it's about creating more usable room for a growing college. and its a terrible argument to say its going to suck because there wont be smartboards everywhere. that's not what teachers OR students want. they'll have access to wifi, they'll have access to computers, printing, scanning...etc. and that's all that is highly sought after now.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: 3maw on September 19, 2013, 11:59:08 AM
What good is the latest and greatest teaching "technology" when over half the engineering professors struggle to turn on an overhead projector?  Christ.     

The main thing is outside aesthetics and addressing over-crowding within classrooms and labs (and just having a computer for students to access).  K-State isn't MIT, and that's a good thing.

Top 50 research university isn't happening unless the university is proactive in the way the new generation is educated.  Technology is and will always be the future.  If you read the link I posted below, you will see how the different style of teaching is connecting to the newer generation of higher-ed students.

As far as BYOD type stuff, video and audio will always reliably distribute through wired connections (since a lot of it is HD content).  The wireless video/audio content presentation is not here yet because it is too unreliable.  So classrooms are adapted to BYOD through wired video matrices.  Some places have wireless video distribution, but it's powerpoint type content only.  Plenty of instructors like to distribute video and clips in their lectures so wireless can sometimes limit this.

I'm having a pretty tough time making a connection between classroom technology and research. Are you saying that our enrollment is going to drop if we don't make our classrooms more like high schools, therefore we will lose tuition dollars?

funding for research is 99% from grants that are exclusive from state $$. the budget of the expansion is backboned by engineering funds+state $$, but also dependent on a couple elites that want the new building named after them.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: EMAWican on September 19, 2013, 12:00:22 PM
What good is the latest and greatest teaching "technology" when over half the engineering professors struggle to turn on an overhead projector?  Christ.     

The main thing is outside aesthetics and addressing over-crowding within classrooms and labs (and just having a computer for students to access).  K-State isn't MIT, and that's a good thing.

Top 50 research university isn't happening unless the university is proactive in the way the new generation is educated.  Technology is and will always be the future.  If you read the link I posted below, you will see how the different style of teaching is connecting to the newer generation of higher-ed students.

As far as BYOD type stuff, video and audio will always reliably distribute through wired connections (since a lot of it is HD content).  The wireless video/audio content presentation is not here yet because it is too unreliable.  So classrooms are adapted to BYOD through wired video matrices.  Some places have wireless video distribution, but it's powerpoint type content only.  Plenty of instructors like to distribute video and clips in their lectures so wireless can sometimes limit this.

The Master Plan for engineering is to focus on better faculty, more scholarships, increasing enrollment, more MSs, PhDs, etc.  Technology is extremely important, and I agree with where you are coming from.  I've seen how progressive the CoE has been the last 10 years or so, and I like it.  But I don't agree with dropping a bunch of cash into technology that only a tiny fraction of the profs and students are going to utilize and won't overly benefit large groups of students.  I'd rather have state-of-the-art labs and computer labs than the ability to swipe a drawing onto someone's iPad.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: sonofdaxjones on September 19, 2013, 12:01:55 PM
What good is the latest and greatest teaching "technology" when over half the engineering professors struggle to turn on an overhead projector?  Christ.     

The main thing is outside aesthetics and addressing over-crowding within classrooms and labs (and just having a computer for students to access).  K-State isn't MIT, and that's a good thing.

Top 50 research university isn't happening unless the university is proactive in the way the new generation is educated.  Technology is and will always be the future.  If you read the link I posted below, you will see how the different style of teaching is connecting to the newer generation of higher-ed students.

As far as BYOD type stuff, video and audio will always reliably distribute through wired connections (since a lot of it is HD content).  The wireless video/audio content presentation is not here yet because it is too unreliable.  So classrooms are adapted to BYOD through wired video matrices.  Some places have wireless video distribution, but it's powerpoint type content only.  Plenty of instructors like to distribute video and clips in their lectures so wireless can sometimes limit this.

Come on, WLAN's are pretty much there, it's just a matter of deploying it correctly and admittedly making sure you have the latest and greatest.   But as Pad/Tablet technology evolves and continues to move the traditional lap top out of the way, future college students aren't going to want to mess with Ethernet cords, if they're not there already.



Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: 3maw on September 19, 2013, 12:02:40 PM
What good is the latest and greatest teaching "technology" when over half the engineering professors struggle to turn on an overhead projector?  Christ.     

The main thing is outside aesthetics and addressing over-crowding within classrooms and labs (and just having a computer for students to access).  K-State isn't MIT, and that's a good thing.

Top 50 research university isn't happening unless the university is proactive in the way the new generation is educated.  Technology is and will always be the future.  If you read the link I posted below, you will see how the different style of teaching is connecting to the newer generation of higher-ed students.

As far as BYOD type stuff, video and audio will always reliably distribute through wired connections (since a lot of it is HD content).  The wireless video/audio content presentation is not here yet because it is too unreliable.  So classrooms are adapted to BYOD through wired video matrices.  Some places have wireless video distribution, but it's powerpoint type content only.  Plenty of instructors like to distribute video and clips in their lectures so wireless can sometimes limit this.

The Master Plan for engineering is to focus on better faculty, more scholarships, increasing enrollment, more MSs, PhDs, etc.  Technology is extremely important, and I agree with where you are coming from.  I've seen how progressive the CoE has been the last 10 years or so, and I like it.  But I don't agree with dropping a bunch of cash into technology that only a tiny fraction of the profs and students are going to utilize and won't overly benefit large groups of students.  I'd rather have state-of-the-art labs and computer labs than the ability to swipe a drawing onto someone's iPad.

and retention. that's actually their biggest push now.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: pissclams on September 19, 2013, 12:02:48 PM
solution- make the engineering students take MIS.  that stands for Management Information Systems.  in my day, every student in BAPP had to take it. 

it taught us- basic functions in the core technology curriculum- excel, access, powerpoint (my presentation was on mt.dew  :cheers: ) - we also had to make a functioning webpage using hyper-text markup language (mine was a cats football website) - my teacher?  Brian Kovar.  My grade?  A+  bring it haters. 

if you know that stuff, you can run the world's economy from your smartphone.  top 50 university?  how about top -50? 
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: WildcatNkilt on September 19, 2013, 12:07:53 PM
What good is the latest and greatest teaching "technology" when over half the engineering professors struggle to turn on an overhead projector?  Christ.     

The main thing is outside aesthetics and addressing over-crowding within classrooms and labs (and just having a computer for students to access).  K-State isn't MIT, and that's a good thing.

Top 50 research university isn't happening unless the university is proactive in the way the new generation is educated.  Technology is and will always be the future.  If you read the link I posted below, you will see how the different style of teaching is connecting to the newer generation of higher-ed students.

As far as BYOD type stuff, video and audio will always reliably distribute through wired connections (since a lot of it is HD content).  The wireless video/audio content presentation is not here yet because it is too unreliable.  So classrooms are adapted to BYOD through wired video matrices.  Some places have wireless video distribution, but it's powerpoint type content only.  Plenty of instructors like to distribute video and clips in their lectures so wireless can sometimes limit this.

I'm having a pretty tough time making a connection between classroom technology and research. Are you saying that our enrollment is going to drop if we don't make our classrooms more like high schools, therefore we will lose tuition dollars?

Separate the technology discussion and the active learning discussion.  Not adapting to the new active learning model (scale-up) could (over time...years obviously) affect how KSU is perceived as an educational provider.  Lecture classrooms won't go away, but they will fade and not be as relevant in the learning environment.  The active learning classrooms require the technology in order for the rooms to properly work. 

Now KSU also may have a large advantage in lab technology, etc. but the classroom is where the initial engagement starts.

Additionally, it could potentially (over time) allow schools like KU to gain ground in colleges (like engineering) that compete for students in and out of state.  Students and professors are the ones that do the research right? 

Now get outside of engineering and look at schools like business.  If the Business school half-asses their new building when they could have made it state-of-the-art, then they could potentially lose students to UMKC, KU, etc.  The school of business is not as "lab intrinsic" as the School of Engineering.  So a lot of the arguments stated in this thread don't work.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: 3maw on September 19, 2013, 12:09:49 PM
What good is the latest and greatest teaching "technology" when over half the engineering professors struggle to turn on an overhead projector?  Christ.     

The main thing is outside aesthetics and addressing over-crowding within classrooms and labs (and just having a computer for students to access).  K-State isn't MIT, and that's a good thing.

Top 50 research university isn't happening unless the university is proactive in the way the new generation is educated.  Technology is and will always be the future.  If you read the link I posted below, you will see how the different style of teaching is connecting to the newer generation of higher-ed students.

As far as BYOD type stuff, video and audio will always reliably distribute through wired connections (since a lot of it is HD content).  The wireless video/audio content presentation is not here yet because it is too unreliable.  So classrooms are adapted to BYOD through wired video matrices.  Some places have wireless video distribution, but it's powerpoint type content only.  Plenty of instructors like to distribute video and clips in their lectures so wireless can sometimes limit this.

I'm having a pretty tough time making a connection between classroom technology and research. Are you saying that our enrollment is going to drop if we don't make our classrooms more like high schools, therefore we will lose tuition dollars?

Separate the technology discussion and the active learning discussion.  Not adapting to the new active learning model (scale-up) could (over time...years obviously) affect how KSU is perceived as an educational provider.  Lecture classrooms won't go away, but they will fade and not be as relevant in the learning environment.  The active learning classrooms require the technology in order for the rooms to properly work. 

Now KSU also may have a large advantage in lab technology, etc. but the classroom is where the initial engagement starts.

Additionally, it could potentially (over time) allow schools like KU to gain ground in colleges (like engineering) that compete for students in and out of state. Students and professors are the ones that do the research right? 

Now get outside of engineering and look at schools like business.  If the Business school half-asses their new building when they could have made it state-of-the-art, then they could potentially lose students to UMKC, KU, etc.  The school of business is not as "lab intrinsic" as the School of Engineering.  So a lot of the arguments stated in this thread don't work.

highly composed of post grad students and profs, very minimal undergrads.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: WildcatNkilt on September 19, 2013, 12:12:39 PM
What good is the latest and greatest teaching "technology" when over half the engineering professors struggle to turn on an overhead projector?  Christ.     

The main thing is outside aesthetics and addressing over-crowding within classrooms and labs (and just having a computer for students to access).  K-State isn't MIT, and that's a good thing.

Top 50 research university isn't happening unless the university is proactive in the way the new generation is educated.  Technology is and will always be the future.  If you read the link I posted below, you will see how the different style of teaching is connecting to the newer generation of higher-ed students.

As far as BYOD type stuff, video and audio will always reliably distribute through wired connections (since a lot of it is HD content).  The wireless video/audio content presentation is not here yet because it is too unreliable.  So classrooms are adapted to BYOD through wired video matrices.  Some places have wireless video distribution, but it's powerpoint type content only.  Plenty of instructors like to distribute video and clips in their lectures so wireless can sometimes limit this.

Come on, WLAN's are pretty much there, it's just a matter of deploying it correctly and admittedly making sure you have the latest and greatest.   But as Pad/Tablet technology evolves and continues to move the traditional lap top out of the way, future college students aren't going to want to mess with Ethernet cords, if they're not there already.

All Ethernet connections are obviously over AP's.  UMKC didn't even run wired Ethernet connections.  As far as video distribution, it is all still done over wired connections.  iPads and tablets are connected from an HDMI cable at the tables which go back to giant video switchers in order to distribute to all displays in the room.  Wirelessly transmitting a YouTube video from someone's tablet to 30+ displays in the room is not reliable. 
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: sonofdaxjones on September 19, 2013, 12:29:42 PM
What good is the latest and greatest teaching "technology" when over half the engineering professors struggle to turn on an overhead projector?  Christ.     

The main thing is outside aesthetics and addressing over-crowding within classrooms and labs (and just having a computer for students to access).  K-State isn't MIT, and that's a good thing.

Top 50 research university isn't happening unless the university is proactive in the way the new generation is educated.  Technology is and will always be the future.  If you read the link I posted below, you will see how the different style of teaching is connecting to the newer generation of higher-ed students.

As far as BYOD type stuff, video and audio will always reliably distribute through wired connections (since a lot of it is HD content).  The wireless video/audio content presentation is not here yet because it is too unreliable.  So classrooms are adapted to BYOD through wired video matrices.  Some places have wireless video distribution, but it's powerpoint type content only.  Plenty of instructors like to distribute video and clips in their lectures so wireless can sometimes limit this.

Come on, WLAN's are pretty much there, it's just a matter of deploying it correctly and admittedly making sure you have the latest and greatest.   But as Pad/Tablet technology evolves and continues to move the traditional lap top out of the way, future college students aren't going to want to mess with Ethernet cords, if they're not there already.

All Ethernet connections are obviously over AP's.  UMKC didn't even run wired Ethernet connections.  As far as video distribution, it is all still done over wired connections.  iPads and tablets are connected from an HDMI cable at the tables which go back to giant video switchers in order to distribute to all displays in the room.  Wirelessly transmitting a YouTube video from someone's tablet to 30+ displays in the room is not reliable.

It's not reliable if you have a crap WLAN.   Just using this as an example, but you could put about 4 to 6 of the latest and greatest AP's from a well known vendor in a classroom for what it would cost to put 30 HDMI drops in.   
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: WildcatNkilt on September 19, 2013, 12:38:58 PM
Yes and no.  If the content is still going to displays you will still need video infrastructure anyways.  If you are talking about pushing to other BYOD's (essentially streaming) then that can bring upon some major bandwidth usage that will exceed price of video/audio infrastructure over time.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: ShellShock on September 19, 2013, 12:40:29 PM
As someone who has been engaged in providing technology solutions for schools (but not things like White Boards) I can't tell you how many times I've talked to IT staffs who just roll their eyes at things like Interactive White Boards and group collaboration and how the money that pays for those robs money from core IT infrastructure improvements and upgrades.    Maintaining those systems with only a finite number of human resources becomes more cumbersome as they age, and maintenance contracts are expensive. 

IT Staffs would much rather improve core connectivity, improve things like the WLAN experience to facilite a secure BYOD environment, as well as upgrade server capacity or the cloud experience that can drive content to the individual user.

Right, but none of the money for a new building is used to improve core infrastructure.  All maintenance contracts would initially be rolled into the cost of the building, and not into the campus IT's yearly budget.  And for future maintenance contracts, the school of "x" could just as easily roll it into their budget instead of it coming out of the general IT budget. 

My whole point is K-State is KSTATEO'ing this up before the building is even built.  They will be behind on classroom experience compared to other universities when the doors first open.  Again, a lot of it is driven from the college so maybe fingers should be pointed at the School of Engineering and not Kansas State University for half-assing it.  I hope that the K-State's school of business visits new higher education buildings before breaking ground on a $30mill building to ensure they are staying competitive.  Lecture classrooms are becoming the thing of the past.

Pretty heads on here guys.  The core infrastructure is usually the last thing that comes to mind when these new buildings are built.  And seeing as how it's not factored into the budget for these new buildings and technological classrooms it becomes pretty damn difficult to facilitate the changes and therefore someone is left with egg on their faces when it doesn't work.

Case in point being this sememster a professor decided that he wanted to use a "clicker" service in his normal classroom activities (sort of a gameshow type question and response app where students use their phones to buzz in with correct answers).  It's something that would have been a great idea but unfortunately this wouldn't work in an area that didn't support the wireless density for a class of this size (150 or so students). 

There are changes being made across campus in regards to technology classrooms, but you can't snap your fingers and turn a room in Thompson to a tech class overnight.  It takes time and money.

The good news is K-State was awarded a major grant that will allow us to overhaul most of our core networking infrastructure and push us into some pretty cool new technology like SDN and Openflow.  Those changes are going to start happening here pretty soon.

Already the West Stadium Center is one of the first sports venues in the country to offer 802.11ac capable wifi. I know that there are talks to try to come up with a solution to offer these services throughout all stadium and Bramlage as well.

What immediately come to mind is Fielder Auditorium and their hard lined Ethernet ports built into the desks, obviously no one one uses those within a few years after they're installed because of wifi. I know they served a purpose for a bit but now it's just a wasted (albeit fairly small) cost. Hopefully they're thinking of future proofing, or at least being flexible to allow for future modifications with the new buildings so they can stay relevant longer.

I graduated fairly recently and I wired in every time I was in Fiedler. The connection was smoking compared to the wireless in the engineering complex. Alot of the time the restrictions on the wired connections were looser than the wifi.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: hatingfrancisco on September 19, 2013, 12:43:12 PM
It's not reliable if you have a crap WLAN.   Just using this as an example, but you could put about 4 to 6 of the latest and greatest AP's from a well known vendor in a classroom for what it would cost to put 30 HDMI drops in.



Yes and no.  If the content is still going to displays you will still need video infrastructure anyways.  If you are talking about pushing to other BYOD's (essentially streaming) then that can bring upon some major bandwidth usage that will exceed price of video/audio infrastructure over time.

It would barely be feasible to do a wired approach for 30 students.  try a class of 50-300 students.  It has to be a wireless delivery system (.com ?)  as it's the only feasible solution.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: WildcatNkilt on September 19, 2013, 12:48:03 PM
It's not reliable if you have a crap WLAN.   Just using this as an example, but you could put about 4 to 6 of the latest and greatest AP's from a well known vendor in a classroom for what it would cost to put 30 HDMI drops in.



Yes and no.  If the content is still going to displays you will still need video infrastructure anyways.  If you are talking about pushing to other BYOD's (essentially streaming) then that can bring upon some major bandwidth usage that will exceed price of video/audio infrastructure over time.

It would barely be feasible to do a wired approach for 30 students.  try a class of 50-300 students.  It has to be a wireless delivery system (.com ?)  as it's the only feasible solution.

For Ethernet absolutely.  For video distribution, no.  Wired Ethernet does not make sense at tables for students.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: sonofdaxjones on September 19, 2013, 01:10:22 PM
The WLAN vendors are rolling out a whole line of products and management systems for the high density environment.   They're delivering real time HD video to BYOD devices in professional and some college football stadiums now.    That's how NFL teams are selling an "at home" experience to keep people buying tickets.

I'm sorry, but a wired solution in a high density environment, particularly one that involves single use drops (like HDMI) would be a tough sell if I were an IT director.  I would envision walking into the room in a few years and seeing a lot of wire in walls and ceilings that wasn't used anymore.

Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: Belvis Noland on September 19, 2013, 01:15:25 PM
Seaton Renderings.  now. 
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: puniraptor on September 19, 2013, 01:19:02 PM
went back into the MNE lair a couple months ago and was fairly dissapointed to see it exactly as I left it (but with 4 more years of age and deterioration).
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: GoodForAnother on September 19, 2013, 01:27:15 PM
derb is so elite


Best part about shacking up with a Ford Hall filly was going over to the Derb to eat instead of Kramer.  Then again any reason to get the hell away from Marlatt Penitentiary was fine.

Can confirm.
Or you can have the best of both worlds and live in Haymaker :love:

Haymaker :love: :love:
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: GoodForAnother on September 19, 2013, 01:29:51 PM
I worked in ITCS as a student in college and still know some folks over there.  KSU has some very nice technology classrooms now, the entire Leadership building is chock full of fancy stuff and they just spent like $2 million each on Umberger 105 and Bluemont 101 in complete renos.  I mean I don't know any specifics so Kilt could be 100% right, and probably is, but from what I've seen KSU has some pretty cool stuff.  :idk:
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: AppleJack on September 19, 2013, 01:30:41 PM
I'm guessing kilt sells smart boards for a living

Ha...no.

confirmed.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: star seed 7 on September 19, 2013, 01:44:19 PM
Collabo /group learning is the worst.  My calc2 rec teacher is doing this and i've already decided to forfeit the participation grade and not go because it's a wastee of time.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on September 19, 2013, 01:45:36 PM
Collabo /group learning is the worst.  My calc2 rec teacher is doing this and i've already decided to forfeit the participation grade and not go because it's a wastee of time.

 :thumbs:

If all of my classes at K-State were set up that way, I would probably have to find a different college.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: WildcatNkilt on September 19, 2013, 02:06:13 PM
An interesting demo was done at Hale library a couple years ago (maybe it was last year).  But a local distributor of Steelcase's MediaScape (show below) set one of these up in Hale Library.  It was apparently used around the clock and students attempted to mock up a 2nd one using tables/chairs/monitors in the area so they could collaborate in a similar fashion.  From what I heard, the new Kineseology building (not sure what building it is) is looking at these.  But this is an example of how the new generation of students are wanting to learn and why studies have proven the collaborative classrooms have stimulated the learning environment. 

(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.steelcase.com%2Fen%2Fproducts%2FCategory%2FEducational%2Ftechnology-visual%2Fmediascape%2FPublishingImages%2Fmediascape%2520banner_SES.jpg&hash=712f07e0768338145adf3da3a3ca9d630e838698)
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: 3maw on September 19, 2013, 02:08:40 PM
An interesting demo was done at Hale library a couple years ago (maybe it was last year).  But a local distributor of Steelcase's MediaScape (show below) set one of these up in Hale Library.  It was apparently used around the clock and students attempted to mock up a 2nd one using tables/chairs/monitors in the area so they could collaborate in a similar fashion.  From what I heard, the new Kineseology building (not sure what building it is) is looking at these.  But this is an example of how the new generation of students are wanting to learn and why studies have proven the collaborative classrooms have stimulated the learning environment. 

(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.steelcase.com%2Fen%2Fproducts%2FCategory%2FEducational%2Ftechnology-visual%2Fmediascape%2FPublishingImages%2Fmediascape%2520banner_SES.jpg&hash=712f07e0768338145adf3da3a3ca9d630e838698)

...outside the classroom. for most engineering classes you just cannot replace pen and pencil notes.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: 8manpick on September 19, 2013, 02:09:23 PM
This thread started interesting but got :zzz: real quick
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on September 19, 2013, 02:11:15 PM
An interesting demo was done at Hale library a couple years ago (maybe it was last year).  But a local distributor of Steelcase's MediaScape (show below) set one of these up in Hale Library.  It was apparently used around the clock and students attempted to mock up a 2nd one using tables/chairs/monitors in the area so they could collaborate in a similar fashion.  From what I heard, the new Kineseology building (not sure what building it is) is looking at these.  But this is an example of how the new generation of students are wanting to learn and why studies have proven the collaborative classrooms have stimulated the learning environment. 

(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.steelcase.com%2Fen%2Fproducts%2FCategory%2FEducational%2Ftechnology-visual%2Fmediascape%2FPublishingImages%2Fmediascape%2520banner_SES.jpg&hash=712f07e0768338145adf3da3a3ca9d630e838698)

...outside the classroom. for most engineering classes you just cannot replace pen and pencil notes.

Exactly. I would be all for setting up stations like that in Fiedler Library. Honestly, though, the setup when I was there wasn't all that different and is probably much more space-efficient.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: 3maw on September 19, 2013, 02:12:04 PM
An interesting demo was done at Hale library a couple years ago (maybe it was last year).  But a local distributor of Steelcase's MediaScape (show below) set one of these up in Hale Library.  It was apparently used around the clock and students attempted to mock up a 2nd one using tables/chairs/monitors in the area so they could collaborate in a similar fashion.  From what I heard, the new Kineseology building (not sure what building it is) is looking at these.  But this is an example of how the new generation of students are wanting to learn and why studies have proven the collaborative classrooms have stimulated the learning environment. 

(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.steelcase.com%2Fen%2Fproducts%2FCategory%2FEducational%2Ftechnology-visual%2Fmediascape%2FPublishingImages%2Fmediascape%2520banner_SES.jpg&hash=712f07e0768338145adf3da3a3ca9d630e838698)

...outside the classroom. for most engineering classes you just cannot replace pen and pencil notes.

Exactly. I would be all for setting up stations like that in Fiedler Library.

WHICH is happening in phase 4! more study rooms and study "clusters"
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on September 19, 2013, 02:14:28 PM
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.steelcase.com%2Fen%2Fproducts%2FCategory%2FEducational%2Ftechnology-visual%2Fmediascape%2FPublishingImages%2Fmediascape%2520banner_SES.jpg&hash=712f07e0768338145adf3da3a3ca9d630e838698)

So, does this station require each student to have his/her own laptop to make it work? I don't see any keyboard/mouse for the 2 big monitors that everyone is grouped around.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: pissclams on September 19, 2013, 02:16:51 PM
An interesting demo was done at Hale library a couple years ago (maybe it was last year).  But a local distributor of Steelcase's MediaScape (show below) set one of these up in Hale Library.  It was apparently used around the clock and students attempted to mock up a 2nd one using tables/chairs/monitors in the area so they could collaborate in a similar fashion.  From what I heard, the new Kineseology building (not sure what building it is) is looking at these.  But this is an example of how the new generation of students are wanting to learn and why studies have proven the collaborative classrooms have stimulated the learning environment. 

(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.steelcase.com%2Fen%2Fproducts%2FCategory%2FEducational%2Ftechnology-visual%2Fmediascape%2FPublishingImages%2Fmediascape%2520banner_SES.jpg&hash=712f07e0768338145adf3da3a3ca9d630e838698)

this seems to benefit the dumbs and negatively effect  smart people like myself.  i don't have time to carry the weight of the scrubs. 
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: sonofdaxjones on September 19, 2013, 02:17:48 PM
An interesting demo was done at Hale library a couple years ago (maybe it was last year).  But a local distributor of Steelcase's MediaScape (show below) set one of these up in Hale Library.  It was apparently used around the clock and students attempted to mock up a 2nd one using tables/chairs/monitors in the area so they could collaborate in a similar fashion.  From what I heard, the new Kineseology building (not sure what building it is) is looking at these.  But this is an example of how the new generation of students are wanting to learn and why studies have proven the collaborative classrooms have stimulated the learning environment. 

(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.steelcase.com%2Fen%2Fproducts%2FCategory%2FEducational%2Ftechnology-visual%2Fmediascape%2FPublishingImages%2Fmediascape%2520banner_SES.jpg&hash=712f07e0768338145adf3da3a3ca9d630e838698)

Here's what I see.   The 2 guys are acting all nice, afterwards they will go for  :Cheers: and figure out how they can off load all the work on to the chick.   

They will then reconvine at the "collaborative" work table the next day, be all nice and quietly off load everything on to her, all the while keeping up the jovial conversation and pointing at a computer monitor now and again saying something semi-salient.   They will then go out and  :Cheers:  :beersmiley:  all night, while the girl  :Crybaby: to all of her "sisters" about how she has to do all the work. 

Meanwhile the sales guy who sold all that stuff  :kstategrad:

Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: WildcatNkilt on September 19, 2013, 02:19:02 PM
An interesting demo was done at Hale library a couple years ago (maybe it was last year).  But a local distributor of Steelcase's MediaScape (show below) set one of these up in Hale Library.  It was apparently used around the clock and students attempted to mock up a 2nd one using tables/chairs/monitors in the area so they could collaborate in a similar fashion.  From what I heard, the new Kineseology building (not sure what building it is) is looking at these.  But this is an example of how the new generation of students are wanting to learn and why studies have proven the collaborative classrooms have stimulated the learning environment. 

(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.steelcase.com%2Fen%2Fproducts%2FCategory%2FEducational%2Ftechnology-visual%2Fmediascape%2FPublishingImages%2Fmediascape%2520banner_SES.jpg&hash=712f07e0768338145adf3da3a3ca9d630e838698)

Here's what I see.   The 2 guys are acting all nice, afterwards they will go for  :Cheers: and figure out how they can off load all the work on to the chick.   

They will then reconvine at the "collaborative" work table the next day, be all nice and quietly off load everything on to her, all the while keeping up the jovial conversation and pointing at a computer monitor now and again same something semi-salient.   They will then go out and  :Cheers:  :beersmiley:  all night, while the girl  :Crybaby: to all of her "sisters" about how she has to do all the work. 

Meanwhile the sales guy who sold at that stuff  :kstategrad:

Nailed it.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: puniraptor on September 19, 2013, 02:19:41 PM
Collabo /group learning is the worst.  My calc2 rec teacher is doing this and i've already decided to forfeit the participation grade and not go because it's a wastee of time.

 :thumbs:

If all of my classes at K-State were set up that way, I would probably have to find a different college.

It's way better for me, even if I dont like it. I will coast and do the minimum if left alone, but if you can trick me into believing other people are depending on me, I will shoulder as much of the burden as possible and be a learning/doing allstar.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on September 19, 2013, 02:22:46 PM
An interesting demo was done at Hale library a couple years ago (maybe it was last year).  But a local distributor of Steelcase's MediaScape (show below) set one of these up in Hale Library.  It was apparently used around the clock and students attempted to mock up a 2nd one using tables/chairs/monitors in the area so they could collaborate in a similar fashion.  From what I heard, the new Kineseology building (not sure what building it is) is looking at these.  But this is an example of how the new generation of students are wanting to learn and why studies have proven the collaborative classrooms have stimulated the learning environment. 

(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.steelcase.com%2Fen%2Fproducts%2FCategory%2FEducational%2Ftechnology-visual%2Fmediascape%2FPublishingImages%2Fmediascape%2520banner_SES.jpg&hash=712f07e0768338145adf3da3a3ca9d630e838698)

Here's what I see.   The 2 guys are acting all nice, afterwards they will go for  :Cheers: and figure out how they can off load all the work on to the chick.   

They will then reconvine at the "collaborative" work table the next day, be all nice and quietly off load everything on to her, all the while keeping up the jovial conversation and pointing at a computer monitor now and again saying something semi-salient.   They will then go out and  :Cheers:  :beersmiley:  all night, while the girl  :Crybaby: to all of her "sisters" about how she has to do all the work. 

Meanwhile the sales guy who sold all that stuff  :kstategrad:

The guy on the left is telling jokes while the girl and the guy on the right are doing all the work. See the screens on their laptops vs what is displayed on the monitors. The guy on the right is just about to nudge the girl with his foot. She will look over, they will make eye contact, and both will realize that it is time to draw this meeting to a close. The guy and the girl will then leave to get a drink and then go back to his place for some "coffee" and homework finalization. The guy telling the joke will get an A for this assignment but bomb all the tests and tell everyone how the engineering program sucks because some people are good at learning but just bad at tests.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: star seed 7 on September 19, 2013, 02:56:42 PM
this seems to benefit the dumbs and negatively effect  smart people like myself.  i don't have time to carry the weight of the scrubs.

yup.  in my previously mentioned class, the slower people rough ridin' love this.

and also equating group learning to the group setting in a workplace isn't correct in my opinion.  i love group projects or presentations or whatever because the creative element of groups have huge upside, but actually learning new material is totally different.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: Tobias on September 19, 2013, 03:14:48 PM
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F25.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_m3wnaxVcSV1r5mn62o1_500.jpg&hash=96b0f79b248ce0b016e15187a9c073f38e354257)
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: michigancat on September 19, 2013, 03:17:54 PM
Group work helped me a lot in engineering classes, but I don't remember having any time to do it in classrooms.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: WildcatNkilt on September 19, 2013, 03:21:24 PM
This type of classroom setting is supposed to make the students more accountable.  So far it has proven to weed out the worthless ones much faster than the traditional classroom. 
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on September 19, 2013, 03:26:26 PM
This type of classroom setting is supposed to make the students more accountable.  So far it has proven to weed out the worthless ones much faster than the traditional classroom.

Do the worthless students just drop out of school mid-semester? It seems like most would wait until after they fail out and both systems would work equally fast.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: Mr Bread on September 19, 2013, 03:35:23 PM
this seems to benefit the dumbs and negatively effect  smart people like myself.  i don't have time to carry the weight of the scrubs.

yup.  in my previously mentioned class, the slower people rough ridin' love this.

and also equating group learning to the group setting in a workplace isn't correct in my opinion.  i love group projects or presentations or whatever because the creative element of groups have huge upside, but actually learning new material is totally different.

In my experience there is always a far greater possiblity that the idiots will water down the end product from what it might have been had the best person simply done it themselves.  Idiots love collaboration. 
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: michigancat on September 19, 2013, 03:37:37 PM
Well, being the smartest person in my homework groups always helped me, because teaching someone improves how well you understand the concepts. I think group work is great, I just question Nkilt's furniture being necessary in a classroom (due to what a small percentage of work is done in a classroom). It would be fantastic in libraries and study areas or whatever, though.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: WildcatNkilt on September 19, 2013, 03:46:17 PM
Well, being the smartest person in my homework groups always helped me, because teaching someone improves how well you understand the concepts. I think group work is great, I just question Nkilt's furniture being necessary in a classroom (due to what a small percentage of work is done in a classroom). It would be fantastic in libraries and study areas or whatever, though.

If the tables were set up that way to just listen to a lecture then I would 100% agree that they aren't necessary.  The new setup is removing the full-blown lecture from the classroom and creating a different style of teaching.  More work is done in the classroom.  If there are lectures, a lot of it is put on the student to watch online when they go home.  Class time is when problems and discussions happen to apply what was discussed from the lecture videos.  Once again...adding accountability to the student and providing time during class to ask questions and solve problems.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: WildcatNkilt on September 19, 2013, 03:48:26 PM
Also I don't sell the furniture.  I'm discussing it because I feel like it is an important educational movement that I can only hope is adopted on K-State's campus, knowing that many other campuses are rapidly adopting it for their new buildings.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on September 19, 2013, 04:01:40 PM
Well, being the smartest person in my homework groups always helped me, because teaching someone improves how well you understand the concepts. I think group work is great, I just question Nkilt's furniture being necessary in a classroom (due to what a small percentage of work is done in a classroom). It would be fantastic in libraries and study areas or whatever, though.

If the tables were set up that way to just listen to a lecture then I would 100% agree that they aren't necessary.  The new setup is removing the full-blown lecture from the classroom and creating a different style of teaching.  More work is done in the classroom.  If there are lectures, a lot of it is put on the student to watch online when they go home.  Class time is when problems and discussions happen to apply what was discussed from the lecture videos.  Once again...adding accountability to the student and providing time during class to ask questions and solve problems.

I'm just glad I already have my degree. That sounds awful.

Some of my friends are going out to the bars and ask if I can come along. "No, guys, I have to finish up some homework and then read a chapter of this Mechanics of Materials textbook for the quiz tomorrow. No, K-State did away with the lectures where somebody actually teaches you the material. Now you just read the book, take a quiz, and then carry dead weight for the rest of the hour."
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: michigancat on September 19, 2013, 04:03:07 PM
Well, being the smartest person in my homework groups always helped me, because teaching someone improves how well you understand the concepts. I think group work is great, I just question Nkilt's furniture being necessary in a classroom (due to what a small percentage of work is done in a classroom). It would be fantastic in libraries and study areas or whatever, though.

If the tables were set up that way to just listen to a lecture then I would 100% agree that they aren't necessary.  The new setup is removing the full-blown lecture from the classroom and creating a different style of teaching.  More work is done in the classroom.  If there are lectures, a lot of it is put on the student to watch online when they go home.  Class time is when problems and discussions happen to apply what was discussed from the lecture videos.  Once again...adding accountability to the student and providing time during class to ask questions and solve problems.

that makes sense. #teamNkilt
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: wabash909 on September 19, 2013, 04:22:40 PM
Somebody show us what the new dorms are going to look like.


Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: 3maw on September 19, 2013, 11:59:56 PM
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F25.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_m3wnaxVcSV1r5mn62o1_500.jpg&hash=96b0f79b248ce0b016e15187a9c073f38e354257)

winner
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: ShellShock on September 20, 2013, 07:12:50 AM
Well, being the smartest person in my homework groups always helped me, because teaching someone improves how well you understand the concepts. I think group work is great, I just question Nkilt's furniture being necessary in a classroom (due to what a small percentage of work is done in a classroom). It would be fantastic in libraries and study areas or whatever, though.

If the tables were set up that way to just listen to a lecture then I would 100% agree that they aren't necessary.  The new setup is removing the full-blown lecture from the classroom and creating a different style of teaching.  More work is done in the classroom.  If there are lectures, a lot of it is put on the student to watch online when they go home.  Class time is when problems and discussions happen to apply what was discussed from the lecture videos.  Once again...adding accountability to the student and providing time during class to ask questions and solve problems.

I'm just glad I already have my degree. That sounds awful.

Some of my friends are going out to the bars and ask if I can come along. "No, guys, I have to finish up some homework and then read a chapter of this Mechanics of Materials textbook for the quiz tomorrow. No, K-State did away with the lectures where somebody actually teaches you the material. Now you just read the book, take a quiz, and then carry dead weight for the rest of the hour."

ditto

While this would be great for a certain number of classes (Statics with Gerth, Soils with the drunk russian, basically any pud non-engineering GenEd course), the majority would be terrible...Can you imagine trying to teach yourself the calc classes or matrix theory or dynamics or thermo?
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: 8manpick on September 20, 2013, 08:09:03 AM

ditto

While this would be great for a certain number of classes (Statics with Gerth, Soils with the drunk russian, basically any pud non-engineering GenEd course), the majority would be terrible...Can you imagine trying to teach yourself the calc classes or matrix theory or dynamics or thermo?

Yes. And the great thing about lectures like that is that if you did understand the material just from reading the book and doing the problem set, you didn't have to waste your time going to that lecture.

Dumbing down education for the mindless idiots that lack the attention span to learn from the combination of a lecture and a textbook isn't the answer.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: Daddy Claxton on September 20, 2013, 08:12:03 AM
Isn't the whole collaborative/team work style just particular to Millenials, and no other generation has craved or been suited for it?  Is Gen-Z, or whatever they are going to call it, going to look at these new 'scale up' classrooms and have the same reaction as the Gen-X'rs: why would I want to carry the dead weight? Or is the Millenials' uniqueness expected to carry on to the next generation?
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: Belvis Noland on September 20, 2013, 08:57:39 AM
[/end thread]

Seaton Hall isn't going to have this scale-up crap.  All it needs is some autocad and balsa wood and everything will be a-ok. 

Now, renderings of Seaton Hall. 
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: 3maw on September 20, 2013, 12:08:12 PM
[/end thread]

Seaton Hall isn't going to have this scale-up crap.  All it needs is some autocad and balsa wood and everything will be a-ok. 

Now, renderings of Seaton Hall.

trying to pester insider sources to find renderings, no luck yet. might help to ping DScott to get his dad to send some drawings over.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: 3maw on September 20, 2013, 01:01:51 PM
getting access to vid later of renderings of seaton. will post link. heard jaw dropping (new seaton and vid)
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: mocat on September 20, 2013, 05:39:04 PM
getting access to vid later of renderings of seaton. will post link. heard jaw dropping (new seaton and vid)

:woot:
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: Mr Bread on September 20, 2013, 05:53:26 PM
Well, being the smartest person in my homework groups always helped me, because teaching someone improves how well you understand the concepts.

I don't agree with this at all.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: michigancat on September 20, 2013, 06:06:03 PM
Well, being the smartest person in my homework groups always helped me, because teaching someone improves how well you understand the concepts.

I don't agree with this at all.

may not apply to pud majors like *insert bread's major here*.

Keep in mind, I'm talking about everyone doing their own work, but doing it at the same time asking each other questions, and talking through everything. It's not like a one person does the work for everyone else thing.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: mocat on September 20, 2013, 07:04:57 PM
Well, being the smartest person in my homework groups always helped me, because teaching someone improves how well you understand the concepts.

I don't agree with this at all.

I totally agree with michypoo here. Talking it out is only good for you
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: Mr Bread on September 20, 2013, 07:10:24 PM
Well, being the smartest person in my homework groups always helped me, because teaching someone improves how well you understand the concepts.

I don't agree with this at all.

I totally agree with michypoo here. Talking it out is only good for you

It isn't good for you if it's unnecessary.  It could for example be a waste of time if you already know it.  Will it hurt you?  No.  Is it inefficient for some in certain circumstances?  Absolutely.  The point is it isn't always so rough ridin' great.   
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: michigancat on September 20, 2013, 07:32:21 PM
It isn't good for you if it's unnecessary.  It could for example be a waste of time if you already know it.  Will it hurt you?  No.  Is it inefficient for some in certain circumstances?  Absolutely.  The point is it isn't always so rough ridin' great.   

Like I sort of alluded to, in most of my classes, NO ONE really "knew it" without a fairly significant amount of work. Also, just about everything you could master in an earlier class would really help you down the line. So even if you thought you really knew it, you weren't wasting your time to try and knowing it better.

In my humanities classes, I doubt it would have helped me, and I don't really remember spending any time studying in groups in those classes. But I did in just about all my engineering classes.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: Mr Bread on September 20, 2013, 07:35:20 PM
It isn't good for you if it's unnecessary.  It could for example be a waste of time if you already know it.  Will it hurt you?  No.  Is it inefficient for some in certain circumstances?  Absolutely.  The point is it isn't always so rough ridin' great.   

Like I sort of alluded to, in most of my classes, NO ONE really "knew it" without a fairly significant amount of work. Also, just about everything you could master in an earlier class would really help you down the line. So even if you thought you really knew it, you weren't wasting your time to try and knowing it better.

In my humanities classes, I doubt it would have helped me, and I don't really remember spending any time studying in groups in those classes. But I did in just about all my engineering classes.

I knew you'd get there.  Good thing we talked it through. 
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: michigancat on September 20, 2013, 07:36:15 PM
GROUP WORK, MR. BREAD
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: ChiComCat on September 20, 2013, 08:08:51 PM
This group studying stuff sounds like bullshit.  Then again, I was a business major so it probably just was for me.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: eastcat on September 20, 2013, 08:40:59 PM
Eastcat with the latest crap imaginable as usual.

http://youtu.be/0uqwScaKNqg
 :gocho:
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: GoodForAnother on September 23, 2013, 01:09:21 AM
Eastcat with the latest crap imaginable as usual.

http://youtu.be/0uqwScaKNqg
 :gocho:

wow
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: 3maw on October 07, 2013, 03:09:17 PM
(https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1377119_10151743247986284_1130742486_n.jpg)
 :love:
(https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/1383658_10151743247981284_515021592_n.jpg)
 :love: :love:
(https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1377608_10151743248071284_871490175_n.jpg)
 :love: :love: :love:
(https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1380489_10151743248131284_1110513323_n.jpg)
 :love: :love: :love: :love:
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: EMAWican on October 07, 2013, 03:16:44 PM
Needs more powercats.  Should've been in the specs at minimum one per four square feet.  But crly  :love:
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: 3maw on October 07, 2013, 03:20:51 PM
welcome to CIS! :cheers:  moving over to phase 4 and joining other bro engineers!
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: yoga-like_abana on October 07, 2013, 03:21:29 PM
(https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1377119_10151743247986284_1130742486_n.jpg)
 :love:
(https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/1383658_10151743247981284_515021592_n.jpg)
 :love: :love:
(https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1377608_10151743248071284_871490175_n.jpg)
 :love: :love: :love:
(https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1380489_10151743248131284_1110513323_n.jpg)
 :love: :love: :love: :love:
man, thats ugly
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: raquetcat on October 07, 2013, 03:49:48 PM
I bet Carl Ice is putting in some serious dough for this

"Where's your next class?"
"Is over in the sweet new engineering building, Ice hall"
:gocho:
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: sonofdaxjones on October 07, 2013, 04:13:26 PM
You guys know that future plans call for turning that parking lot between Engineering and Biology into a Science Quad??

Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on October 07, 2013, 04:20:42 PM
You guys know that future plans call for turning that parking lot between Engineering and Biology into a Science Quad??

That sounds elite.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: hemmy on October 07, 2013, 05:05:57 PM
*snip*
man, thats ugly

Nope, amazing.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: Belvis Noland on October 07, 2013, 05:11:34 PM
God help the student who attempts to navigate to class through that tree-lined courtyard. 
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: EuroCat on October 07, 2013, 08:11:25 PM
Even Engineers deserve good things. Even if just for a day.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: yoEMAW on October 07, 2013, 11:57:50 PM
 :thumbs:
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: 3maw on October 08, 2013, 09:44:24 AM
I bet Carl Ice is putting in some serious dough for this

"Where's your next class?"
"Is over in the sweet new engineering building, Ice hall"
:gocho:

well, they are still hunting for a very special person to drop a multi mil donation and have p4 named after them.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: star seed 7 on October 08, 2013, 11:48:19 AM
cw101 undergoing remodel this summer. (that whole rough ridin' building needs a remodel)
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: AppleJack on October 08, 2013, 11:57:09 AM
I'm wearing a Seton Hall Pirates hoodie at the moment. how about that?
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: GoodForAnother on October 17, 2013, 11:34:23 AM
@kstate_pres: Woot! Today we announce a $70M gift focused on engineering excellence at Kansas State University - a truly transformational gift. #KState150
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: mocat on October 17, 2013, 11:41:59 AM
 :horrorsurprise:  :thumbs:
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: bubbles4ksu on October 17, 2013, 12:31:48 PM
@kstate_pres: Woot! Today we announce a $70M gift focused on engineering excellence at Kansas State University - a truly transformational gift. #KState150

the link says they are giving $70M to OU and OSU as well. he gave the schools a ton of stock and pledged to buy back $500k every year.

edit: a link from the foundation.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: 3maw on October 20, 2013, 09:20:01 PM
@kstate_pres: Woot! Today we announce a $70M gift focused on engineering excellence at Kansas State University - a truly transformational gift. #KState150

the link says they are giving $70M to OU and OSU as well. he gave the schools a ton of stock and pledged to buy back $500k every year.

edit: a link from the foundation.

yeah basically this old concrete company owner had a large amount of ownership in the company obviously, and before he passed made a note that he wanted to gift it to engineers because he would not have gotten where he was in life without them. chose KSU because a ksu alumni works there who is high up, not real big but big enough, and he was very well trusted and respected by this owner so he chose kstate as well because "they're teaching the engineers something good up there"

so they set up this foundation with these shares in the company that the owner left behind and gifted $50 mil worth of them to ksu, ou, and osu. currently the three universitys are nonvoting shareholders. the company is trying to become employee owned, and by setting up the foundation, don't have to have the IRS come in with the "gifting" of shares. since the time of the donation a few years ago, the shares have grown to about $70 mil. apparently talks are in the way to increase the buyback rate.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: Trogdor on February 06, 2014, 10:26:07 AM
Kramer renovation rendo. Looks very downtowny and modern. Assume the grey building is the new dorm.

(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fih.constantcontact.com%2Ffs132%2F1107842212029%2Fimg%2F369.jpg&hash=76b4ef6924fb0fecb213693926396faf9be1c998)

http://housing.k-state.edu/resources/construction/?utm_source=February+On-Campus+Monthly+Update&utm_campaign=December+Student+2013&utm_medium=email
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: puniraptor on February 06, 2014, 10:45:23 AM
wow!
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: Belvis Noland on June 19, 2014, 02:01:32 PM
http://www.treanorarchitects.com/treanor-student-life/kramer-housing-dining/

Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: Trogdor on June 19, 2014, 02:04:48 PM
http://www.treanorarchitects.com/treanor-student-life/kramer-housing-dining/

Insiders answer please?

1) Anticipated Completion?
2) What will the parking situation be like on that side now that they are building over current spots?
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: Belvis Noland on June 19, 2014, 02:07:47 PM
http://www.treanorarchitects.com/treanor-student-life/kramer-housing-dining/

Insiders answer please?

1) Anticipated Completion?
2) What will the parking situation be like on that side now that they are building over current spots?

will be open by Fall Semester 2016. 

http://www.k-state.edu/media/newsreleases/jun14/wefaldhall61914.html
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: pissclams on June 19, 2014, 03:18:19 PM
http://www.treanorarchitects.com/treanor-student-life/kramer-housing-dining/



that skyline is a classic combination of new york city mixed with a bit of dubai flair.  simply perfect for our flint hills' nook. 
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: eastcat on June 19, 2014, 03:27:58 PM
Makes Marlatt and Goodnow look like soviet shitboxes.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: Trogdor on February 13, 2015, 10:15:52 PM
*Breaking News*

14 mil in expansion coming to McCain
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: The Big Train on February 14, 2015, 05:10:33 PM
surprisement level we are building/expanding something at ksu --------->  :zzz:
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: sunny_cat on February 14, 2015, 05:58:59 PM
*Breaking News*

14 mil in expansion coming to McCain
Whoa
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: Dugout DickStone on February 14, 2015, 06:21:25 PM
Thespian cats!
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: GoodForAnother on February 14, 2015, 07:28:31 PM
hopefully it gets an exterior facelift to make it look less communist
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: sunny_cat on February 14, 2015, 08:10:27 PM
Marching band also uses McCain fwiw
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: Trogdor on February 14, 2015, 10:36:09 PM
hopefully it gets an exterior facelift to make it look less communist

Its getting a brand new 2 story lobby/atrium with lots of windows
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: GoodForAnother on February 14, 2015, 11:34:15 PM
hopefully it gets an exterior facelift to make it look less communist

Its getting a brand new 2 story lobby/atrium with lots of windows

neato
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: Cire on February 15, 2015, 08:21:33 AM
Have they done anything to spruce up bluemont?
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) on February 15, 2015, 08:57:48 AM
Have they done anything to spruce up bluemont?

It has a pretty garden out front for sitting
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: Cire on February 15, 2015, 09:13:04 AM
You would think they could power wash it or something
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 15, 2015, 12:52:36 PM
You would think they could power wash it or something

I don't understand why they don't clean the stone on more buildings.   When they cleaned the stone on McCain several years back it looked like a brand new building.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: The Big Train on February 15, 2015, 01:29:49 PM
You would think they could power wash it or something

I don't understand why they don't clean the stone on more buildings.   When they cleaned the stone on McCain several years back it looked like a brand new building.

Nichols looks so much better since they did exterior renovations to the stone
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: Trogdor on February 15, 2015, 01:53:31 PM
You would think they could power wash it or something

I don't understand why they don't clean the stone on more buildings.   When they cleaned the stone on McCain several years back it looked like a brand new building.

Hope they clean the engineering complex when the new stuff is done. The exterior of the old buildings look like crap
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: 3maw on March 02, 2015, 11:13:59 PM
https://twitter.com/GaryAClark11/status/568171451364159488

(fyi dscotts dad in orange vest fwiw )

phase 4 is gonna be shmexy as hell. heard that "facelift" type of work is planned for rest of exterior of building once p4 is occupied (might have been a part of original contract? can't remember). creating new serpan student workspace (was the lobby area near cafe Q). omg. its gonna be nice

:love: those fireproofed beams

:love: that atrium expansion
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: sunny_cat on March 02, 2015, 11:29:20 PM
 :love:
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: The Big Train on March 02, 2015, 11:33:51 PM
o man!  :ksu:
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: Mikeyis4dcats on March 03, 2015, 10:35:32 AM
https://twitter.com/GaryAClark11/status/568171451364159488

(fyi dscotts dad in orange vest fwiw )

phase 4 is gonna be shmexy as hell. heard that "facelift" type of work is planned for rest of exterior of building once p4 is occupied (might have been a part of original contract? can't remember). creating new serpan student workspace (was the lobby area near cafe Q). omg. its gonna be nice

:love: those fireproofed beams

:love: that atrium expansion

shocking how much more dscotts dad makes than anyone else in the department.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: mocat on March 03, 2015, 10:49:06 AM
holy crap, Dave Fritchen is D Scott's dad?  :sdeek:

don't know why i never put that together. that is amazing. i don't think Dave would be caught dead taking pictures of his food
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: kslim on March 03, 2015, 10:56:41 AM
that is amazing. i don't think Dave would be caught dead taking pictures of his food
not a chance, in fact he walks up to people doing it and gives them a nice upside the head smack and shakes his head in disgust
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: Mikeyis4dcats on March 03, 2015, 11:20:14 AM
that is amazing. i don't think Dave would be caught dead taking pictures of his food
not a chance, in fact he walks up to people doing it and gives them a nice upside the head smack and shakes his head in disgust

exactly what I pictured in my head if Dave saw you instgramming something.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: kslim on March 03, 2015, 11:52:39 AM
that is amazing. i don't think Dave would be caught dead taking pictures of his food
not a chance, in fact he walks up to people doing it and gives them a nice upside the head smack and shakes his head in disgust

exactly what I pictured in my head if Dave saw you instgramming something.
yep, also his power ties are dreamy
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: Mikeyis4dcats on March 03, 2015, 12:27:29 PM
Does Chuck still throw his keys at people?
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: 0.42 on March 03, 2015, 02:48:32 PM
more like studton hall
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: sunny_cat on March 03, 2015, 02:56:12 PM
more like studton hall

that tweet isn't seaton fwiw
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: 0.42 on March 03, 2015, 03:25:04 PM
more like studton hall

that tweet isn't seaton fwiw

do you think I give even the slightest bit of a eff
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: sunny_cat on March 03, 2015, 03:26:21 PM
more like studton hall

that tweet isn't seaton fwiw

do you think I give even the slightest bit of a eff

calm down weirdo
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: CNS on March 03, 2015, 03:28:08 PM
DNR most of this, but Seaton needs whatevs it's getting.  Was junk on fire when I was there. 
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: Tobias on March 03, 2015, 06:59:12 PM

more like studton hall

:peek:
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: chum1 on March 03, 2015, 07:06:39 PM
No academic college or department is proud of its buildings like engineering is proud of theirs.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: GoodForAnother on March 03, 2015, 08:06:31 PM
more like studton hall

that tweet isn't seaton fwiw

do you think I give even the slightest bit of a eff

lmao

I think you're a neat poster 42
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: 3maw on March 03, 2015, 11:56:19 PM
No academic college or department is proud of its buildings like engineering is proud of theirs.

we rough ridin' live in that building. yeah i need a nice facade to look at. and please give me 200 windows to look out of as well.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: chum1 on March 04, 2015, 12:19:35 AM
No academic college or department is proud of its buildings like engineering is proud of theirs.

we rough ridin' live in that building. yeah i need a nice facade to look at. and please give me 200 windows to look out of as well.

Excellent demonstration of engineering building pride.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: Trogdor on March 04, 2015, 01:55:39 AM
Since most eng dorks dont care about bsfs expansion, or sports, this is basically their equivalent.


But I like both and cant wait to take a crap in the new non-smelly toilets
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: mocat on March 04, 2015, 06:38:22 AM
No academic college or department is proud of its buildings like engineering is proud of theirs.

Well no crap, engineers build buildings
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: Mikeyis4dcats on March 04, 2015, 08:27:46 AM
No academic college or department is proud of its buildings like engineering is proud of theirs.

Well no crap, engineers build buildings


To be fair most of the building engineers call Seaton home.   But yeah, Durland/Fiedler has always been the "Gem" of the engineering school.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep on March 04, 2015, 08:58:23 AM
engineers are rough ridin' dorks, no one cares.
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: mocat on March 04, 2015, 10:16:29 AM
i wish @Christer would get in here and tell his D Scott story
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: Christer on March 04, 2015, 11:38:17 AM
i wish @Christer would get in here and tell his D Scott story

Alright, alright.

So my family moved to a different house in Manhattan when I was in 8th grade. The house was previously owned by the Fritchen family. Years later, when I was an engineering student and had a reason to know/care who Dave/D Scott Fritchen were, my dad told me this story.

When we first moved in to the house, I picked this room with a weird little unfinished attic/closet connected to it. This was, allegedly, D Scott's room when he had lived there with his parents. My dad and I decided it would be cool to finish out the attic space with carpet, drywall, etc. So one day, my dad was in there securing loose pieces of OSB on the floor and saw something in the space below the floor and the ceiling of the lower level. He reached in and pulled out a crumpled up pair of nasty red panties that had been stashed underneath the floor boards. To this day, those panties are the first thing that I think of whenever anyone mentions D Scott. 
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: sunny_cat on March 04, 2015, 11:48:13 AM
 :sdeek:
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: mocat on March 04, 2015, 12:07:13 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B90EtF4CUAAYbDf.jpg:large)
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: star seed 7 on March 04, 2015, 12:18:39 PM
Stud
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: meow meow on March 04, 2015, 12:26:27 PM
they were probably from a girl you guys
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: 3maw on March 04, 2015, 09:35:41 PM
best red panties ever
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: bubbles4ksu on March 04, 2015, 09:42:20 PM
lol
Title: Re: FYI Seaton Hall . . .
Post by: puniraptor on March 05, 2015, 08:39:24 PM