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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Football => Topic started by: EMAWzified on August 30, 2013, 11:14:32 PM
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By cooler heads and knowledgeable fans, not carnes and the like.
I didn't see enough to think he should play in front of an electric player like Sams. Seems to hold the ball too long and didn't throw well on the run. That's my facile judgment, but would like to hear from those who know the game better than me.
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By cooler heads and knowledgeable fans, not carnes and the like.
I didn't see enough to think he should play in front of an electric player like Sams. Seems to hold the ball too long and didn't throw well on the run. That's my facile judgment, but would like to hear from those who know the game better than me.
Waters had a few nice throws. The rest of the team simply isn't good enough to drop back and pass on 70%+ of the plays we run and expect to win. We need a dual threat QB to move the chains and score points on a consistent basis or we are not going to win any conference games.
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its a joke we couldn't run the ball that was the problem
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So we were moving the chains throwing in the flat on first down and taking advantage of Thompson and Lockett's speed on the outside. Then we didn't do it after we went up 21-7. Kind of WTF for me.
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Stud passer utilized horribly.
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So we were moving the chains throwing in the flat on first down and taking advantage of Thompson and Lockett's speed on the outside. Then we didn't do it after we went up 21-7. Kind of WTF for me.
Sams is the only reason we went up 21-7. If we would have left waters in there, we only go up 17-7.
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Seemed like Snyder thought he still had Klein with some of the play calls. Waters can move around the pocket but he isn't the kind of QB that can put his head down and pickup a couple extra yards.
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Very well could be, but the the throws to the flat were good in lieu of a running game. Kind of weird we abandoned them.
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I may not be an expert, but ill certainly be more objective than most here, I imagine.
Waters really looked like a guy who was playing in his first big boy game. He was entirely too slow making check-downs, but he had almost zero help from that O-line. The more important problem I saw was decision making, or more specifically, the lack of it. The combination of having no help to find time to make the right decisions and the fact that he apparently needs MORE than a whole offseason to get ONE play called did not a good plan make.
Truly sorry about this loss, guys. T's and P's…
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Snyder questioning his use of Sams in post game, as well he ought.
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He didn't have much to work with. I thought he played a pretty great first game actually considering he had no run game and a collapsing pocket the majority of the game. The rest of the team sucked so it probably isn't a good game to give an assessment. Seems like they need to find an offensive leader and maybe Sams could be that guy :dunno:
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Snyder questioning his use of Sams in post game, as well he ought.
VERY telling, ¿no?
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He didn't have much to work with. I thought he played a pretty great first game actually considering he had no run game and a collapsing pocket the majority of the game. The rest of the team sucked so it probably isn't a good game to give an assessment. Seems like they need to find an offensive leader and maybe Sams could be that guy :dunno:
His abilities created that lack of a run game and collapsing pocket. That would not have happened if Sams were the starter and we would have played smash mouth football.
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I thought Waters actually played pretty well. Should never have thrown the INT in-bounds, but it shows it was his 1st game. Much more disappointed in the o-line than in Waters. You can bash him all you want, but the lack of any run game showed that the line just wasn't there tonight. If we get more consistent line play, and w/ a few games' more experience, Waters will do very well.
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I'm not of Hubert hater but don't think he's really a Big 12 feature back either.
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I thought Waters actually played pretty well. Should never have thrown the INT in-bounds, but it shows it was his 1st game. Much more disappointed in the o-line than in Waters. You can bash him all you want, but the lack of any run game showed that the line just wasn't there tonight. If we get more consistent line play, and w/ a few games' more experience, Waters will do very well.
We just don't have the personnel to expect a run game running draws out of the shotgun with little to no running threat at QB. When we lined up in the I inside of our own 5, the run game looked fine. If we had a running option at QB, the defense would have had a lot of trouble stopping the Sams/Hubert 2 headed monster. Hubert is no Sproles, though. He isn't going to do much out of the shotgun with Waters at QB, especially when all Waters can show is dink and dunk pass attempts.
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I thought Waters actually played pretty well. Should never have thrown the INT in-bounds, but it shows it was his 1st game. Much more disappointed in the o-line than in Waters. You can bash him all you want, but the lack of any run game showed that the line just wasn't there tonight. If we get more consistent line play, and w/ a few games' more experience, Waters will do very well.
Waters made the OLine look bad. There is a reason a group of returners were great last year and bad this year. The only variable is QB play.
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I thought Waters actually played pretty well. Should never have thrown the INT in-bounds, but it shows it was his 1st game. Much more disappointed in the o-line than in Waters. You can bash him all you want, but the lack of any run game showed that the line just wasn't there tonight. If we get more consistent line play, and w/ a few games' more experience, Waters will do very well.
We just don't have the personnel to expect a run game running draws out of the shotgun with little to no running threat at QB. When we lined up in the I inside of our own 5, the run game looked fine. If we had a running option at QB, the defense would have had a lot of trouble stopping the Sams/Hubert 2 headed monster. Hubert is no Sproles, though. He isn't going to do much out of the shotgun with Waters at QB, especially when all Waters can show is dink and dunk pass attempts.
I think that remains to be seen. Its definitely a completely different look than w/ Klein, and it looks like players and coaches alike are having a bit of a hard time breaking out of that mindset. In any event, none of that is Waters' fault.
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Waters = Grant Gregory w/ a better arm?
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I would guess Waters time is already over judging by Snyders post game. He doesn't usually say things like that. Waters might make beautiful passes but if he can't handle the pressure (and our highly touted O-line sucks balls like it did tonight) it is time to move on to a QB who can scramble.
I will also bet the Bill will never again reign in the deep pass so early in the game vs a lesser opponent.
Point 3: the KU alum built statue that looks like Bill with downs has to go.
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I thought Waters actually played pretty well. Should never have thrown the INT in-bounds, but it shows it was his 1st game. Much more disappointed in the o-line than in Waters. You can bash him all you want, but the lack of any run game showed that the line just wasn't there tonight. If we get more consistent line play, and w/ a few games' more experience, Waters will do very well.
We just don't have the personnel to expect a run game running draws out of the shotgun with little to no running threat at QB. When we lined up in the I inside of our own 5, the run game looked fine. If we had a running option at QB, the defense would have had a lot of trouble stopping the Sams/Hubert 2 headed monster. Hubert is no Sproles, though. He isn't going to do much out of the shotgun with Waters at QB, especially when all Waters can show is dink and dunk pass attempts.
I think that remains to be seen. Its definitely a completely different look than w/ Klein, and it looks like players and coaches alike are having a bit of a hard time breaking out of that mindset. In any event, none of that is Waters' fault.
I agree. None of this is Waters' fault. It's Bill's fault. That said, Bill has a QB on the sidelines perfectly capable of moving the chains and scoring tons of points in his offense, yet he sticks with Waters, who through no fault of his own, can't even beat an FCS team. Waters should have never signed with us. He would have made a great backup. Instead, he won the starting job and lost to North Dakota rough ridin' State.
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Waters is Marc Dunn 2.0. Great juco qb that had an amazing team around him but does not fit in what we do.
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My assessment of the waters: not smooth or calm
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you know it's a bad loss when the hoopies are offering Ts and Ps :drink:
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He's slow and he runs too much
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I thought Waters actually played pretty well. Should never have thrown the INT in-bounds, but it shows it was his 1st game. Much more disappointed in the o-line than in Waters. You can bash him all you want, but the lack of any run game showed that the line just wasn't there tonight. If we get more consistent line play, and w/ a few games' more experience, Waters will do very well.
Waters made the OLine look bad. There is a reason a group of returners were great last year and bad this year. The only variable is QB play.
Never ever heard anyone say that the QB made his oline look bad. Ever. How is that possible?
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I thought Waters actually played pretty well. Should never have thrown the INT in-bounds, but it shows it was his 1st game. Much more disappointed in the o-line than in Waters. You can bash him all you want, but the lack of any run game showed that the line just wasn't there tonight. If we get more consistent line play, and w/ a few games' more experience, Waters will do very well.
Waters made the OLine look bad. There is a reason a group of returners were great last year and bad this year. The only variable is QB play.
Never ever heard anyone say that the QB made his oline look bad. Ever. How is that possible?
Obviously you have never watched Jeff George or Jake Waters play the game of football.
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I thought Waters actually played pretty well. Should never have thrown the INT in-bounds, but it shows it was his 1st game. Much more disappointed in the o-line than in Waters. You can bash him all you want, but the lack of any run game showed that the line just wasn't there tonight. If we get more consistent line play, and w/ a few games' more experience, Waters will do very well.
Waters made the OLine look bad. There is a reason a group of returners were great last year and bad this year. The only variable is QB play.
Never ever heard anyone say that the QB made his oline look bad. Ever. How is that possible?
b/c waters sucks, thats how. i swear that 90% of the people that post here are legally blind b/c there is no way that you could have watched the game tonight and not understand what _33 is saying.
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I think waters was ok. We are still figuring out what this offense needs to be. My guess is we will get it figured out at some point and be pretty good on offense. We commonly look lke crap on offense in the first game. More then anything i think bill just has to figure out what he wants to do. If waters is the guy you have to commit to throwing the football. If you don't want to do that then you have to play SAMs. Either way I see it getting fixed but unfortunately the defense is another story and I don't see any potential answers there.
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I thought Waters actually played pretty well. Should never have thrown the INT in-bounds, but it shows it was his 1st game. Much more disappointed in the o-line than in Waters. You can bash him all you want, but the lack of any run game showed that the line just wasn't there tonight. If we get more consistent line play, and w/ a few games' more experience, Waters will do very well.
Waters made the OLine look bad. There is a reason a group of returners were great last year and bad this year. The only variable is QB play.
Never ever heard anyone say that the QB made his oline look bad. Ever. How is that possible?
What they mean is that he failed to make his oline look amazing. You know, the way Sams would have. Because we decided long ago that, no matter what else happens, Sams makes this team the best in the history of college football when he is on the field.
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I think waters was ok. We are still figuring out what this offense needs to be. My guess is we will get it figured out at some point and be pretty good on offense. We commonly look lke crap on offense in the first game. More then anything i think bill just has to figure out what he wants to do. If waters is the guy you have to commit to throwing the football. If you don't want to do that then you have to play SAMs. Either way I see it getting fixed but unfortunately the defense is another story and I don't see any potential answers there.
If you run the football you can have 9 minute drives like NDSU did to end the game. That makes your defense look a whole lot better.
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you know it's a bad loss when the hoopies are offering Ts and Ps :drink:
Im going to take the high road, and instead of adding insult to injury, I'll just say cheers.
:cheers:
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The fact is that it's silly to make any definitive statements at this point. Bill now has a track record of not having players ready for the first game or last game of the season.
Klein squeaked out a 10-7 win vs. Eastern Kentucky 2 years ago in the opener. Waters went 21/29 for 280 yards. He may not be the answer for this team, but judging by past seasons, I'm not sure if we really know who this team is yet.
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Waters is dog crap guys. My eyes don't lie to me. Ever.
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Waters is dog crap guys. My eyes don't lie to me. Ever.
my eyes saw my boy Daniel get the ball and then instantly score a touchdown.
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Recent history would make one consider that Snyder is one of the best week-to-week coaches in existence and one of the worst out there when given a lot of time.
See every first game of the season since his return and bowl game since forever.
Does he overthink things? No idea. But the bottom line is our beloved K-State Cats stink when Snyder and co have a lot of time to prepare for the opponent.
That being said, I don't know what everyone is possibly debating. The o-line was awful and Waters wasn't very good beyond a few throws.
#life
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Waters is dog crap guys. My eyes don't lie to me. Ever.
my eyes saw my boy Daniel get the ball and then instantly score a touchdown.
It's interesting how he does that.
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Waters is exactly what we thought he would be. Great passer, so-so runner. He had an extreme case of happy feet in tonight's game (maybe nerves). Not to mention he had about three seconds to get rid of the ball before pressure was in his face
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Waters is exactly what we thought he would be. Great passer, so-so runner. He had an extreme case of happy feet in tonight's game (maybe nerves). Not to mention he had about three seconds to get rid of the ball before pressure was in his face
3 seconds is all you can reasonably expect. Anything more than that is really good protection.
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I thought Waters actually played pretty well. Should never have thrown the INT in-bounds, but it shows it was his 1st game. Much more disappointed in the o-line than in Waters. You can bash him all you want, but the lack of any run game showed that the line just wasn't there tonight. If we get more consistent line play, and w/ a few games' more experience, Waters will do very well.
Waters made the OLine look bad. There is a reason a group of returners were great last year and bad this year. The only variable is QB play.
Never ever heard anyone say that the QB made his oline look bad. Ever. How is that possible?
Bad checks, bad reads, holding the ball too long, and happy feet are all things that can make an O line look bad. First year CK hung his O line out a lot because he refused to throw the ball away.
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Waters is exactly what we thought he would be. Great passer, so-so runner. He had an extreme case of happy feet in tonight's game (maybe nerves). Not to mention he had about three seconds to get rid of the ball before pressure was in his face
3 seconds is all you can reasonably expect. Anything more than that is really good protection.
This is correct. As it comes to a pass rush and pass protection I think the lines are getting too much grief. NDSU used a ton of three and five step drops. The QB didn't have the ball very long, they were perfectly content with 5 yard hitches, back shoulder throws, and quick slants. I'm not quite sure what we were doing with Waters.
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It honestly doesn't matter what we think of Waters. Sams needs to play because it's the only way we are going to get production out of Hubert. We have to have his running ability to open up opportunities for others. Also, due to the defense, we are gonna need to drain clock.
Sams needs to start by Texas.
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Waters is dog crap guys. My eyes don't lie to me. Ever.
my eyes saw my boy Daniel get the ball and then instantly score a touchdown.
he also got tackled later for no gain, fyi
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I thought Waters actually played pretty well. Should never have thrown the INT in-bounds, but it shows it was his 1st game. Much more disappointed in the o-line than in Waters. You can bash him all you want, but the lack of any run game showed that the line just wasn't there tonight. If we get more consistent line play, and w/ a few games' more experience, Waters will do very well.
Waters made the OLine look bad. There is a reason a group of returners were great last year and bad this year. The only variable is QB play.
Never ever heard anyone say that the QB made his oline look bad. Ever. How is that possible?
Bad checks, bad reads, holding the ball too long, and happy feet are all things that can make an O line look bad. First year CK hung his O line out a lot because he refused to throw the ball away.
This. I saw him get good passing protection on most downs. He just wants to hold it too long and make a play. NDSU also blitzed quite a bit. I know a couple of those blitzes we didn't have enough guys to block them all, and Waters either didn't have a safety valve on the play or didn't utilize them. He should have been making checks with his receivers to expose the blitzes.
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He is (I think) the best white QB so he will keep the job
Since coming back ZERO black QB starts for Bill
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loser
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Waters went 21-29 for 280 yards with 2 TD and 2 INT, that's not a bad game at all, pretty accurate if you ask me. you guys really need to be talking crap about Hubert...10 carries for 23 yards. and he is 1st team big 12 ahead of James Sims? lmao
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Hubert's playing just fine. He doesn't have a backup beloved by goEMAW, so I don't know what more you can expect out of him.
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Hubert's playing just fine. He doesn't have a backup beloved by goEMAW, so I don't know what more you can expect out of him.
lol 10 carries for 23 yards is not "fine"
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Because Hubert had so many holes to run through, right? He was smothered on most of those carries.
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Because Hubert had so many holes to run through, right? He was smothered on most of those carries.
good running backs FIND holes
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Yeah, to an extent. Hubert could have been better, but I don't buy that a non-superhuman running back put into Hubert's shoes on most of those carries manages to look good.
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Who hates our OL more today? Jake Losers or John Losert? Can you imagine all the dirty looks they're giving Cornelius Loses?
Also, I don't know the name of anyone on our defense.
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Who hates our OL more today? Jake Losers or John Losert? Can you imagine all the dirty looks they're giving Cornelius Loses?
Also, I don't know the name of anyone on our defense.
I think we have a guy named Blake Slaughter.
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By cooler heads and knowledgeable fans, not carnes and the like.
I didn't see enough to think he should play in front of an electric player like Sams. Seems to hold the ball too long and didn't throw well on the run. That's my facile judgment, but would like to hear from those who know the game better than me.
That was my assessment as well. He seems to be more a pure pocket passer. I don't want to put the blame on anyone, but the offensive play calling was not suited for Waters. The delayed quarterback sneak that Klein was noted for needs to be scrapped if Waters is going to remain QB. He has absolutely no running ability and things are only going to get faster when league play starts.
I was a bit surprised that Sams did not get more play after the touchdown. Is he in the dog house with the coaches? Were they miffed at his celebration after the touchdown? Back to Waters.... If Coach Snyder is going to commit to him being QB, he has to develop a scheme to suit Waters' skills. Otherwise, even 6th place in the Big XII standings may look good by November.
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Who hates our OL more today? Jake Losers or John Losert? Can you imagine all the dirty looks they're giving Cornelius Loses?
Also, I don't know the name of anyone on our defense.
Cornelius was carp last night he wiffed on multiple blocks and didn't open a single hole. He should be panicking guys left and right.
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By cooler heads and knowledgeable fans, not carnes and the like.
I didn't see enough to think he should play in front of an electric player like Sams. Seems to hold the ball too long and didn't throw well on the run. That's my facile judgment, but would like to hear from those who know the game better than me.
That was my assessment as well. He seems to be more a pure pocket passer. I don't want to put the blame on anyone, but the offensive play calling was not suited for Waters. The delayed quarterback sneak that Klein was noted for needs to be scrapped if Waters is going to remain QB. He has absolutely no running ability and things are only going to get faster when league play starts.
I was a bit surprised that Sams did not get more play after the touchdown. Is he in the dog house with the coaches? Were they miffed at his celebration after the touchdown? Back to Waters.... If Coach Snyder is going to commit to him being QB, he has to develop a scheme to suit Waters' skills. Otherwise, even 6th place in the Big XII standings may look good by November.
Based on this line from Snyder "Daniel (Sams), that was poor coaching on our part. We put him in one play and he is in the end zone. That falls back on us not utilizing him more" I don't think we will be needing to scheme around Waters, that experiment has gone :flush:
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Loser who lost to north loser state
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10 carries for 23 yards. and he is 1st team big 12 ahead of James Sims? lmao
I blame this on bad play calling. Even on 3rd and short we tried to run it outside or some time of delay
We wouldn't just run it right at them, I know they were blitzing constantly but still
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A) the "jake waters is a surprisingly good runner" stuff from the off season was clearly bullshit.
B) agreed that having a bad running QB makes hubes sucky.
C) thought he threw the ball pretty well. dink and dunk type of QB. would be good in a "system".
D) our defense is praying to the god of clock management that we put sams in there and start veer'ing the crap out of teams.