goemaw.com
TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Football => Topic started by: catzacker on December 12, 2012, 02:01:38 PM
-
So as to seperate recruiting as a historical discussion (here) and recruiting as a curent discussion (recruiting thread):
You can’t look at “recruiting” under Bill through a short sighted lens. It’s coverage (and therefore “star rating” or recruiting coverage in general) during most of Bill's first run was not remotely close to being as robust as it is now. I wouldn’t even call it remotely close to what it is now until maybe 2000. And certainly not the juco system.
Secondly, that “recruiting” in those years in which there was no real recruiting coverage produced players that today would have been highly rated recruits if they were coming out today (If you want to debate that point, fine, there’s really no way to definitively determine this) AND those people doing that recruiting either still are (bob, mikey) or were (venzy, mangino) in this conference recruiting directly against us. You’ll notice that once those guys were out of our staff and recruiting against us, we began to slowly erode internally. Instead of Ben Leber backing up Mark Simoneau, it was Matt Butler backing up Ted Sims. Instead of John McGraw backing up Lamar Chapman, it was Marcus Watts backing up Jesse Tetuan.
You can argue results, I won’t disregard them, however I’ll point to where those results began to deteriorate and why they did so. There is a direct correlation to people that once recruited for us that then began to out recruit us somewhere else. Coupled with a program like OSU that began to treat Wichita as an instate city (again, because of our inability to recruit) and in general teams beginning to play the Juco game (and do it better than us).
IMO, what Snyder does in recruiting, given the CURRENT environment, is unsustainable. And I believe this based on the absolute wrecking of our program during a period which most closely resembles the current environment. Even the core of the staff at the end of the first run is here now.
-
we recruited complete studs (actual and recruiting rankings) until about 2000 or so. we had stud recruiting assistants then.
-
we recruited complete studs (actual and recruiting rankings) until about 2000 or so. we had stud recruiting assistants then.
Would argue that recruiting landscape changed around that time and fewer kids went under-noticed due in part to the internet and sites like rivals. But agree the caliber of recruiters did fall off but it was not the sole reason. Also big dog schools started recruiting the juco ranks harder, in part to our success.
-
Instead of Ben Leber backing up Mark Simoneau, it was Matt Butler backing up Ted Sims. Instead of John McGraw backing up Lamar Chapman, it was Marcus Watts backing up Jesse Tetuan.
While I agree Snyder has not maximized his opportunities in recruiting, I am not sure you examples do much to support your message. All those guys were DITRs that came from outside major recruiting areas.
The one thing the good ones had in common is they had at least a combo off adequate size and speed for their position while the guys above that were not as good did not have both (and in some cases they had neither).
-
Our level of recruiting has always been about the same and will always stay about the same. Big programs get the studs. Everyone else gets the same three stars.
-
Instead of Ben Leber backing up Mark Simoneau, it was Matt Butler backing up Ted Sims. Instead of John McGraw backing up Lamar Chapman, it was Marcus Watts backing up Jesse Tetuan.
While I agree Snyder has not maximized his opportunities in recruiting, I am not sure you examples do much to support your message. All those guys were DITRs that came from outside major recruiting areas.
The one thing the good ones had in common is they had at least a combo off adequate size and speed for their position while the guys above that were not as good did not have both (and in some cases they had neither).
Leber was a Parade All American, Simoneau was Honorable Mention Parade All American.
Lamar and to a certain extent Jon, were examples of where the recruiting evaluation was at the time. Those kids, with their athletic ability would have been highly regarded players coming out of HS. Both were all around fantastic athletes in HS.
-
it would be cool to have more good players
-
zacker thread.
-
Anyone else watch the replay of the 1998 Alamo Bowl on ESPN Classic last night?
So many freak/stud athletes on that team... Hey, let's stick Frank Murphy in to return KOs, Hey, lets have David Allen play RB for a while... the list goes on and on.
-
wow, this thread went places. :jerk:
-
The 99 class was really good. (rankings and performance)
-
I remember the pre 00 classes to be mostly garbage in the rankings. I have all that crap saved on an old hard drive. Perhaps I'll get motivated to look.
FWIW, I think the "stars matter" people are right when it comes to recruiting as a whole, but...for whatever reason, Snyder is just an unexplainable exception to the rule. I think the recruiting sites started inflating JUCOs after the Bishop/McDonald/Kelly class did so well, but they still got most of it wrong, and have since become more stingy with JUCO stars in recent years (stingy on the whole actually). There were a ton of 4 and 5 star JUCOs for a while, but it was pretty random in the results. I followed football recruiting as intently as basketball for about 8 years. What I got out of it, was that Snyder recruiting was fairly impossible to gauge. Again, this is not a "stars don't matter" post. They do matter. Just not so much with Snyder. :bill:
-
Why do people think that our 2012 big 12 championship is some kind of magic bullet for recruiting? Mike Gundy couldn't land a top 25 class after winning the championship last year. Our staff sucks at relationships and closing the deal, that is the entirety of the problem. Bill won't hire the people necessary to recruit well.
-
...Again, this is not a "stars don't matter" post. They do matter. Just not so much with Snyder. :bill:
I somewhat disagree. I still think stars matter just as much, it's just that Bill is so damn good in other areas that he can more readily make up for his lack of recruiting. It's not like he isn't offering these guys, he just isn't landing them so he has to make DITR. Imagine what he could consistently do with legitimate top 25-50 classes. I'm just saddened to see so much potential go untapped. He will go to the hall of fame, and deservedly so. However, he could have been even better (Dr. P's & MNC games) with a couple great recruiters.
-
<--SCHEMED! Pretty good day, Bill. :billdance:
-
...Again, this is not a "stars don't matter" post. They do matter. Just not so much with Snyder. :bill:
I somewhat disagree. I still think stars matter just as much, it's just that Bill is so damn good in other areas that he can more readily make up for his lack of recruiting. It's not like he isn't offering these guys, he just isn't landing them so he has to make DITR. Imagine what he could consistently do with legitimate top 25-50 classes. I'm just saddened to see so much potential go untapped. He will go to the hall of fame, and deservedly so. However, he could have been even better (Dr. P's & MNC games) with a couple great recruiters.
He had great recruiters and still failed. WTF do you call stoops bros, mangino, venzy, leavitt etc?
-
He had great recruiters and still failed. WTF do you call stoops bros, mangino, venzy, leavitt etc?
You mean the guys that ushered in one of the greatest turnarounds in history, then bailed right before we came an eyelash away from winning said Dr. P and going to a MNC? Thanks for reaffirming my point.
-
we recruited like monsters with the stoops bros, vency, leavitt, etc. on staff. dumbasses always try to say we didn't, we were going up against OU and TX on every kid and winning. stupid revisionist history talking point always gets paraded around.
-
we recruited like monsters with the stoops bros, vency, leavitt, etc. on staff. dumbasses always try to say we didn't, we were going up against OU and TX on every kid and winning. stupid revisionist history talking point always gets paraded around.
No. This just isn't the case.
-
Historically, we've beaten Texas out for one guy. And that could be a stretch.
-
we recruited like monsters with the stoops bros, vency, leavitt, etc. on staff. dumbasses always try to say we didn't, we were going up against OU and TX on every kid and winning. stupid revisionist history talking point always gets paraded around.
No. This just isn't the case.
Bullshit
-
we recruited like monsters with the stoops bros, vency, leavitt, etc. on staff. dumbasses always try to say we didn't, we were going up against OU and TX on every kid and winning. stupid revisionist history talking point always gets paraded around.
No. This just isn't the case.
Bullshit
Sorry.
-
Historically, we've beaten Texas out for one guy. And that could be a stretch.
We just beat them out for Waters yesterday . . .
-
we recruited like monsters with the stoops bros, vency, leavitt, etc. on staff. dumbasses always try to say we didn't, we were going up against OU and TX on every kid and winning. stupid revisionist history talking point always gets paraded around.
No. This just isn't the case.
I'd say recruiting rankings (and recruiting in general) was quite a bit different up until the late 90s when people started following it on the internet when rivals/scout type sites became popular.
A lot of guys were players we developed that would be 2/3 star types today.
When I look at the Snyder era All Americans I don't think a lot of these guys were really highly touted guys.
1993 Jaime Mendez, FS (1st team)
1993 Thomas Randolph, CB (2nd team)
1993 Andre Coleman, KR (3rd team)
1994 Tim Colston, DT (3rd team)
1995 Chris Canty, CB (1st team)
Tim Colston, DT (2nd team)
Percell Gaskins, LB (3rd team)
1996 Chris Canty, CB (1st team)
Kevin Lockett, WR (3rd team)
1997 Martin Gramatica, PK (1st team)
1998 David Allen, PR (1st team)
Jeff Kelly, LB (1st team)
Martin Gramatica, PK (2nd team)
Mark Simoneau, LB (2nd team)
Michael Bishop, QB (3rd team)
Darnell McDonald, WR (3rd team)
1999 Mark Simoneau, LB (1st team)
David Allen, PR (2nd team)
Darren Howard, DE (3rd team)
Jamie Rheem, PK (3rd team)
2000 Mario Fatafehi, DT (2nd team)
Aaron Lockett, All-Purp. (2nd team)
Jamie Rheem, PK (2nd team)
2001 Ben Leber, LB (3rd team)
2002 Terence Newman, CB (1st team)
2003 Darren Sproles, RB (1st team)
Josh Buhl, LB (2nd team)
2007 Jordy Nelson, WR (1st team)
Probably the highest touted recruits would've been Canty, Kelly, Bishop, Buhl, Sproles.
Even guys like Simoneau and Newman weren't more than a 3 star kid today. Gaskins was just a freak athlete that turned into a really good linebacker. Howard was way undersized when he got here and developed into a stud. I don't think with most of the guys that we were beating out OU or UT on to get.
:dunno:
-
He had great recruiters and still failed. WTF do you call stoops bros, mangino, venzy, leavitt etc?
You mean the guys that ushered in one of the greatest turnarounds in history, then bailed right before we came an eyelash away from winning said Dr. P and going to a MNC? Thanks for reaffirming my point.
What on earth he did the exact same thing with a group of old retreads and mediocre recruiting classes. Snyders failed on the largest stage and he alone owns that.
-
Historically, we've beaten Texas out for one guy. And that could be a stretch.
We just beat them out for Waters yesterday . . .
THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING HISTORICALLY WE'VE DOMONATED OU AND TEXAS IN RECRUITING
-
canty was a highly rated recruit, as was frank murphy iirc
-
We beat out Tennessee and a couple others for Murphy. Unless I'm forgetting someone, none of our highest rated recruits really panned out. Not trying to make a tucky point there, just stating a fact.
-
I think this thread proves the point I was trying to make in regards to recruiting services/information available during the majority of snyder’s first run. Most of it is simply hearsay and anecdotal evidence. There simply wasn’t/isn’t enough information available and the public recruiting infrastructure wasn’t there to be able to really establish what our recruiting looked like back then.
-
I think this thread proves the point I was trying to make in regards to recruiting services/information available during the majority of snyder’s first run. Most of it is simply hearsay and anecdotal evidence. There simply wasn’t/isn’t enough information available and the public recruiting infrastructure wasn’t there to be able to really establish what our recruiting looked like back then.
Yes, I agree completely. 90s and even early 00s recruiting coverage was very spotty. Today's is better, but a lot of it is based on NFL combine type assessments as much as rivals/ESPN guys watching film.
We beat out Tennessee and a couple others for Murphy. Unless I'm forgetting someone, none of our highest rated recruits really panned out. Not trying to make a tucky point there, just stating a fact.
Yes, this happened a lot.
And a lot of guys that became All-Americans were 3 star at best. That's not to say they were all preferred walkons or something like Jordy Nelson (many were solid recruits) they just weren't a bunch of 4/5 star, rivals 100 types either.
I agree with others that said a lot of our problem in the last couple years of Snyder was guys not showing up, or not staying through their career. One of the strengths of Snyder's program (no matter who the assistants) has been developing players while they are here, its much harder to do that when a bunch of guys in a class don't come/stay.
-
I think this thread proves the point I was trying to make in regards to recruiting services/information available during the majority of snyder’s first run. Most of it is simply hearsay and anecdotal evidence. There simply wasn’t/isn’t enough information available and the public recruiting infrastructure wasn’t there to be able to really establish what our recruiting looked like back then.
That just happens to be when we started paying attention. Ask an SEC fan about recruits from any decade and they'll give you a complete rundown. Besides, everyone knew who the big studs were. Everyone thought that James Allen was the best running back in his class. Guys who everyone knew about went to places like OU. Never KState. KState got the three stars. Still true today.
-
Instead of Ben Leber backing up Mark Simoneau, it was Matt Butler backing up Ted Sims. Instead of John McGraw backing up Lamar Chapman, it was Marcus Watts backing up Jesse Tetuan.
While I agree Snyder has not maximized his opportunities in recruiting, I am not sure you examples do much to support your message. All those guys were DITRs that came from outside major recruiting areas.
The one thing the good ones had in common is they had at least a combo off adequate size and speed for their position while the guys above that were not as good did not have both (and in some cases they had neither).
Leber was a Parade All American, Simoneau was Honorable Mention Parade All American.
Lamar and to a certain extent Jon, were examples of where the recruiting evaluation was at the time. Those kids, with their athletic ability would have been highly regarded players coming out of HS. Both were all around fantastic athletes in HS.
leber was from south dakota and not that heavily recruited and simoneau was from kansas with an older brother that had already played for kansas state. also lol at saying a white quarterback from riley kansas that was only offered one or two scholarships (air force/wyoming) and chose instead to walk on at k-state would've been highly regarded by a recruiting service. that's ridiculous.
-
Instead of Ben Leber backing up Mark Simoneau, it was Matt Butler backing up Ted Sims. Instead of John McGraw backing up Lamar Chapman, it was Marcus Watts backing up Jesse Tetuan.
While I agree Snyder has not maximized his opportunities in recruiting, I am not sure you examples do much to support your message. All those guys were DITRs that came from outside major recruiting areas.
The one thing the good ones had in common is they had at least a combo off adequate size and speed for their position while the guys above that were not as good did not have both (and in some cases they had neither).
Leber was a Parade All American, Simoneau was Honorable Mention Parade All American.
Lamar and to a certain extent Jon, were examples of where the recruiting evaluation was at the time. Those kids, with their athletic ability would have been highly regarded players coming out of HS. Both were all around fantastic athletes in HS.
leber was from south dakota and not that heavily recruited and simoneau was from kansas with an older brother that had already played for kansas state. also lol at saying a white quarterback from riley kansas that was only offered one scholarship (air force) and chose instead to walk on at k-state would've been highly regarded by a recruiting service. that's ridiculous.
Maybe OT, but we have ways of making these high school athletes into NFL draft choices. Like the QB from JC that won two 6A State Championships and is our star SS, or the Pro-Style QB from Colorado who become one of our best daul threat QB ever.
-
Instead of Ben Leber backing up Mark Simoneau, it was Matt Butler backing up Ted Sims. Instead of John McGraw backing up Lamar Chapman, it was Marcus Watts backing up Jesse Tetuan.
While I agree Snyder has not maximized his opportunities in recruiting, I am not sure you examples do much to support your message. All those guys were DITRs that came from outside major recruiting areas.
The one thing the good ones had in common is they had at least a combo off adequate size and speed for their position while the guys above that were not as good did not have both (and in some cases they had neither).
Leber was a Parade All American, Simoneau was Honorable Mention Parade All American.
Lamar and to a certain extent Jon, were examples of where the recruiting evaluation was at the time. Those kids, with their athletic ability would have been highly regarded players coming out of HS. Both were all around fantastic athletes in HS.
leber was from south dakota and not that heavily recruited and simoneau was from kansas with an older brother that had already played for kansas state. also lol at saying a white quarterback from riley kansas that was only offered one scholarship (air force) and chose instead to walk on at k-state would've been highly regarded by a recruiting service. that's ridiculous.
Maybe OT, but we have ways of making these high school athletes into NFL draft choices. Like the QB from JC that won two 6A State Championships and is our star SS, or the Pro-Style QB from Colorado who become one of our best daul threat QB ever.
zimmerman is a perfect example really. guy has been a stud for us and was a two star with offers from us, northern illinois and northern iowa. he's basically the current version of jon mcgraw.
-
I think this thread proves the point I was trying to make in regards to recruiting services/information available during the majority of snyder’s first run. Most of it is simply hearsay and anecdotal evidence. There simply wasn’t/isn’t enough information available and the public recruiting infrastructure wasn’t there to be able to really establish what our recruiting looked like back then.
That just happens to be when we started paying attention. Ask an SEC fan about recruits from any decade and they'll give you a complete rundown. Besides, everyone knew who the big studs were. Everyone thought that James Allen was the best running back in his class. Guys who everyone knew about went to places like OU. Never KState. KState got the three stars. Still true today.
Who cares where the big names go? This is me talking as a fan first, I guess, but I love the guys who come here and play here because they want to be here.
It is my very favorite thing about Snyder that he takes those players and tells them, if you work hard, we're going to make this happen for you. He'll take the guy everyone said was too little (Darren Sproles) and give him a chance.
I know a few NFL recruiters and I swear none of them ever has an independent thought in their head. I swear they buy everything they hear on ESPN about every player long before they ever go look at them. Yes, how they do at the combine matters, but those stars at college-level recruiting and high-praise in NFL assessments don't take into consideration a lot of intangibles that really can make a huge difference.
I think Snyder considers the intangibles like work ethic, leadership abilities, determination, etc. almost as much as he considers athleticism, speed, etc. That is one of the main reasons he is an incredible coach. His players aren't a spreadsheet containing measurements, they're real people.
-
Instead of Ben Leber backing up Mark Simoneau, it was Matt Butler backing up Ted Sims. Instead of John McGraw backing up Lamar Chapman, it was Marcus Watts backing up Jesse Tetuan.
While I agree Snyder has not maximized his opportunities in recruiting, I am not sure you examples do much to support your message. All those guys were DITRs that came from outside major recruiting areas.
The one thing the good ones had in common is they had at least a combo off adequate size and speed for their position while the guys above that were not as good did not have both (and in some cases they had neither).
Leber was a Parade All American, Simoneau was Honorable Mention Parade All American.
Lamar and to a certain extent Jon, were examples of where the recruiting evaluation was at the time. Those kids, with their athletic ability would have been highly regarded players coming out of HS. Both were all around fantastic athletes in HS.
leber was from south dakota and not that heavily recruited and simoneau was from kansas with an older brother that had already played for kansas state. also lol at saying a white quarterback from riley kansas that was only offered one scholarship (air force) and chose instead to walk on at k-state would've been highly regarded by a recruiting service. that's ridiculous.
Maybe OT, but we have ways of making these high school athletes into NFL draft choices. Like the QB from JC that won two 6A State Championships and is our star SS, or the Pro-Style QB from Colorado who become one of our best daul threat QB ever.
zimmerman is a perfect example really. guy has been a stud for us and was a two star with offers from us, northern illinois and northern iowa. he's basically the current version of jon mcgraw.
That's basically it. Synder's staff looks at the athlete and decides what position they will be good at. I don't think they give a crap about what position they played in high school, other than being athletic and having the measurables. He said stars were what got him in trouble after the 2003 season.
-
I think this thread proves the point I was trying to make in regards to recruiting services/information available during the majority of snyder’s first run. Most of it is simply hearsay and anecdotal evidence. There simply wasn’t/isn’t enough information available and the public recruiting infrastructure wasn’t there to be able to really establish what our recruiting looked like back then.
That just happens to be when we started paying attention. Ask an SEC fan about recruits from any decade and they'll give you a complete rundown. Besides, everyone knew who the big studs were. Everyone thought that James Allen was the best running back in his class. Guys who everyone knew about went to places like OU. Never KState. KState got the three stars. Still true today.
If you argument is that regardless of the robustness of recruiting services now compared to then, we were recruiting 3* kids – so it doesn’t matter if those services did not have the resources to scout some kid from Kansas then but do now because the conclusion would be that he’s a 2*/3*, then that’s certainly valid-ish.
My point is that because we don’t really have historical records (so to speak) of recruiting like we do now, that conclusion is merely opinion/anecdotal rather than being based on anything type of sources. 10 years from now, we’ll be able to say – without any question – that we beat out Penn State for a 1st team Juco AA QB and beat out OSU for a 4* Juco AA Defensive End. Not because we care now, but because there’s more information available and it’s retained easier. I’m of the belief that if we had the recruiting services we do now, and the kids that were coming through KSU in the mid-late 90’s were in HS, they would have highly ranked (which may have meant we wouldn’t have gotten them).
-
I think this thread proves the point I was trying to make in regards to recruiting services/information available during the majority of snyder’s first run. Most of it is simply hearsay and anecdotal evidence. There simply wasn’t/isn’t enough information available and the public recruiting infrastructure wasn’t there to be able to really establish what our recruiting looked like back then.
That just happens to be when we started paying attention. Ask an SEC fan about recruits from any decade and they'll give you a complete rundown. Besides, everyone knew who the big studs were. Everyone thought that James Allen was the best running back in his class. Guys who everyone knew about went to places like OU. Never KState. KState got the three stars. Still true today.
Who cares where the big names go? This is me talking as a fan first, I guess, but I love the guys who come here and play here because they want to be here.
It is my very favorite thing about Snyder that he takes those players and tells them, if you work hard, we're going to make this happen for you. He'll take the guy everyone said was too little (Darren Sproles) and give him a chance.
I know a few NFL recruiters and I swear none of them ever has an independent thought in their head. I swear they buy everything they hear on ESPN about every player long before they ever go look at them. Yes, how they do at the combine matters, but those stars at college-level recruiting and high-praise in NFL assessments don't take into consideration a lot of intangibles that really can make a huge difference.
I think Snyder considers the intangibles like work ethic, leadership abilities, determination, etc. almost as much as he considers athleticism, speed, etc. That is one of the main reasons he is an incredible coach. His players aren't a spreadsheet containing measurements, they're real people.
:tuck:
-
Historically, we've beaten Texas out for one guy. And that could be a stretch.
We just beat them out for Waters yesterday . . .
If they don't offer (they didn't), that's not beating them.
-
Historically, we've beaten Texas out for one guy. And that could be a stretch.
We just beat them out for Waters yesterday . . .
If they don't offer (they didn't), that's not beating them.
They didn't offer because Waters told them to take a hike. It probably wasn't the best decision on Waters' part, but I'm glad we got him.
-
Sorry, these anecdotes are neat, but we have simply not been recruiting at the level we were in the 90's. No, we didn't beat Texas all the time, but we were competing with programs like Texas and OU and winning the occasional battle. Look at Josh Buhl (keep in mind that Nebraska and Tennessee were top 10 teams at the time):
Even before the season started, linebacker Josh Buhl (6-1, 185, 4.5) from Mesquite, Texas, favored Kansas State. And no, this youngster from North Mesquite High is not a defensive back. This year in 11 games on a 7-4 team, he had 81 solo tackles and seven sacks. He's a great speed-rusher from the outside and has a knack for making big plays.
Kansas State (Dec. 11 official visit) will have to hold off Nebraska (Dec. 4) and Tennessee (Dec. 18).
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/football/sfc/colwal40.htm
This has a wealth of information:
http://peitsch.tripod.com/99recap.htm
http://peitsch.tripod.com/Y2Krecruits.htm
You can see things getting worse in 2001, but we weren't shitting the bed every time another BCS school offered:
http://peitsch.tripod.com/recruit.htm
-
:tuck:
Proudly.
-
Sorry, these anecdotes are neat, but we have simply not been recruiting at the level we were in the 90's. No, we didn't beat Texas all the time, but we were competing with programs like Texas and OU and winning the occasional battle. Look at Josh Buhl (keep in mind that Nebraska and Tennessee were top 10 teams at the time):
Even before the season started, linebacker Josh Buhl (6-1, 185, 4.5) from Mesquite, Texas, favored Kansas State. And no, this youngster from North Mesquite High is not a defensive back. This year in 11 games on a 7-4 team, he had 81 solo tackles and seven sacks. He's a great speed-rusher from the outside and has a knack for making big plays.
Kansas State (Dec. 11 official visit) will have to hold off Nebraska (Dec. 4) and Tennessee (Dec. 18).
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/football/sfc/colwal40.htm
This has a wealth of information:
http://peitsch.tripod.com/99recap.htm
http://peitsch.tripod.com/Y2Krecruits.htm
You can see things getting worse in 2001, but we weren't shitting the bed every time another BCS school offered:
http://peitsch.tripod.com/recruit.htm
Holy crap, I forgot about Rex Ryan at K-State
-
Ohh Rex. DC for a day.
JC won two titles with Zimms???
-
Sorry, these anecdotes are neat, but we have simply not been recruiting at the level we were in the 90's. No, we didn't beat Texas all the time, but we were competing with programs like Texas and OU and winning the occasional battle. Look at Josh Buhl (keep in mind that Nebraska and Tennessee were top 10 teams at the time):
Even before the season started, linebacker Josh Buhl (6-1, 185, 4.5) from Mesquite, Texas, favored Kansas State. And no, this youngster from North Mesquite High is not a defensive back. This year in 11 games on a 7-4 team, he had 81 solo tackles and seven sacks. He's a great speed-rusher from the outside and has a knack for making big plays.
Kansas State (Dec. 11 official visit) will have to hold off Nebraska (Dec. 4) and Tennessee (Dec. 18).
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/football/sfc/colwal40.htm
This has a wealth of information:
http://peitsch.tripod.com/99recap.htm
http://peitsch.tripod.com/Y2Krecruits.htm
You can see things getting worse in 2001, but we weren't shitting the bed every time another BCS school offered:
http://peitsch.tripod.com/recruit.htm
those links are great. also i don't think they show anything much different than what is currently going on. better? yeah i guess but not night and day. i think the links also showed a kstate fan picking and choosing which recruiting rankings and verbage to use to make the players sound as highly sought after as possible.
Max Emfinger ranks him #5 in the Big 12 region
MO-KAN Football ranks Brian
Rivals.com
First Down recruiting lists him as
PrepStar tabs him
J.C. GridWire All-American
-
Sorry, these anecdotes are neat, but we have simply not been recruiting at the level we were in the 90's. No, we didn't beat Texas all the time, but we were competing with programs like Texas and OU and winning the occasional battle. Look at Josh Buhl (keep in mind that Nebraska and Tennessee were top 10 teams at the time):
Even before the season started, linebacker Josh Buhl (6-1, 185, 4.5) from Mesquite, Texas, favored Kansas State. And no, this youngster from North Mesquite High is not a defensive back. This year in 11 games on a 7-4 team, he had 81 solo tackles and seven sacks. He's a great speed-rusher from the outside and has a knack for making big plays.
Kansas State (Dec. 11 official visit) will have to hold off Nebraska (Dec. 4) and Tennessee (Dec. 18).
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/football/sfc/colwal40.htm
This has a wealth of information:
http://peitsch.tripod.com/99recap.htm
http://peitsch.tripod.com/Y2Krecruits.htm
You can see things getting worse in 2001, but we weren't shitting the bed every time another BCS school offered:
http://peitsch.tripod.com/recruit.htm
those links are great. also i don't think they show anything much different than what is currently going on. better? yeah i guess but not night and day. i think the links also showed a kstate fan picking and choosing which recruiting rankings and verbage to use to make the players sound as highly sought after as possible.
Max Emfinger ranks him #5 in the Big 12 region
MO-KAN Football ranks Brian
Rivals.com
First Down recruiting lists him as
PrepStar tabs him
J.C. GridWire All-American
Just look at the offer and visit lists, then. Even the most delusional super Cat fan can't spin those now.
Going through the 1998-99 columns of the USA today guy is pretty interesting. Lots of highly ranked guys dropped us because of the coaching exodus.
-
Still, this is interesting:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=K59EAAAAIBAJ&sjid=07UMAAAAIBAJ&dq=kansas-state%20football%20recruiting&pg=4720%2C2322070
-
Sorry, these anecdotes are neat, but we have simply not been recruiting at the level we were in the 90's. No, we didn't beat Texas all the time, but we were competing with programs like Texas and OU and winning the occasional battle. Look at Josh Buhl (keep in mind that Nebraska and Tennessee were top 10 teams at the time):
Even before the season started, linebacker Josh Buhl (6-1, 185, 4.5) from Mesquite, Texas, favored Kansas State. And no, this youngster from North Mesquite High is not a defensive back. This year in 11 games on a 7-4 team, he had 81 solo tackles and seven sacks. He's a great speed-rusher from the outside and has a knack for making big plays.
Kansas State (Dec. 11 official visit) will have to hold off Nebraska (Dec. 4) and Tennessee (Dec. 18).
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/football/sfc/colwal40.htm
This has a wealth of information:
http://peitsch.tripod.com/99recap.htm
http://peitsch.tripod.com/Y2Krecruits.htm
You can see things getting worse in 2001, but we weren't shitting the bed every time another BCS school offered:
http://peitsch.tripod.com/recruit.htm
those links are great. also i don't think they show anything much different than what is currently going on. better? yeah i guess but not night and day. i think the links also showed a kstate fan picking and choosing which recruiting rankings and verbage to use to make the players sound as highly sought after as possible.
Max Emfinger ranks him #5 in the Big 12 region
MO-KAN Football ranks Brian
Rivals.com
First Down recruiting lists him as
PrepStar tabs him
J.C. GridWire All-American
Just look at the offer and visit lists, then. Even the most delusional super Cat fan can't spin those now.
Going through the 1998-99 columns of the USA today guy is pretty interesting. Lots of highly ranked guys dropped us because of the coaching exodus.
i don't know. was it better? sure/i guess. were we routinely beating out texas, nebraska and ou for recruits? no, we really weren't. just in that first tripod link alone there were guys that we were in the hunt for that we lost out on to ou, michigan, osu, miami, notre dame and arizona and that's just on offense.
also, there a lot of fan boy opinions on those links. i mean i read this and i can't take much else on that page seriously. i mean it'd be pretty hard to be more anecdotal than some of this.
Also looking at the Wildcats in the JUCO ranks was Larry Shyne from Mount San Antonio CC (same JC as current Cats DeRon Tyler). He's described as a game-breaker, possessing 4.26 40 speed to go with his 6' 175 pound frame. Shyne visited K-State , Purdue and Oregon State in successive weekends. It appears as though with the commitment of Bias that there was simply no scholarship left for Shyne and he will be a Purdue Boilermaker (although he really liked K-State). Ronald Bellamy one of the nations top WR's was also interested and visited K-State early in the recruiting process (due to the great recruiting efforts of Michael Smith) but K-State was amoung many teams who lost him to Michigan.
-
In 1995, Snyder's just like, "you know what? eff you, I'm not releasing my recruits on signing day."
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=yM8WYnMLviIC&dat=19950202&printsec=frontpage&hl=en
And I think I'm going to just spend the rest of my day browsing the Junction City Union archives:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=zetEAAAAIBAJ&sjid=LrcMAAAAIBAJ&pg=1833%2C2165562
-
Still, this is interesting:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=K59EAAAAIBAJ&sjid=07UMAAAAIBAJ&dq=kansas-state%20football%20recruiting&pg=4720%2C2322070
yeah. i think snyder has always been pretty strategic with where to recruit. back then we had some ins in south florida and there weren't top 25ish programs like south florida and central florida to compete with. there were 3 fbs football school in florida in 1993. now there are 7. also, eff you guys for making it appear like i'm defending our current recruiting.
-
Still, this is interesting:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=K59EAAAAIBAJ&sjid=07UMAAAAIBAJ&dq=kansas-state%20football%20recruiting&pg=4720%2C2322070
yeah. i think snyder has always been pretty strategic with where to recruit. back then we had some ins in south florida and there weren't top 25ish programs like south florida and central florida to compete with. there were 3 fbs football school in florida in 1993. now there are 7. also, eff you guys for making it appear like i'm defending our current recruiting.
I thought it was more interesting that he was trying to recruit top talent but failing. It looks like our 1997 class was really good but all the articles are paywalled:
https://www.google.com/search?q=%22kansas+state%22+football+recruit&hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&biw=1328&bih=779&sa=X&ei=YGjLUJWpBsG1iwLb5oHICA&ved=0CCcQpwUoCzgK&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A2%2F1%2F1997%2Ccd_max%3A2%2F28%2F1997&tbm=nws
-
Ohh Rex. DC for a day.
JC won two titles with Zimms???
Yes they did, but Zimms dad was their coach.
-
We just wished upon a :star: :star: :star: :star: high schooler :excited:
-
Ohh Rex. DC for a day.
JC won two titles with Zimms???
Yes they did, but Zimms dad was their coach.
mmmmmm......just 1 title, Senior year, i believe
-
Ohh Rex. DC for a day.
JC won two titles with Zimms???
Yes they did, but Zimms dad was their coach.
mmmmmm......just 1 title, Senior year, i believe
I believe you're right. This was a talking point at work a couple years ago, when we recuited Zimms. I remembered this wrong and didn't QFT. Here's his high school profile:
HIGH SCHOOL: A four-year letterwinner at quarterback and defensive back for the Blue Jays under head coach and father Randall Zimmerman... Was 144-of-221 for 1,920 yards and 25 touchdowns as a senior in 2008, while rushing 133 times for 1,046 yards and 18 scores... Led the Blue Jays to a 13-0 record and the 2008 Kansas 6A State Championship... Scored all three of the Blue Jays' touchdowns in the state championship... Named to the Wichita Eagle Kansas Top 11 team... Named first team all-state in 2007 and 2008, as well as a honorable mention in 2006... Also lettered two years in basketball and baseball.
-
Article about Nebraska recruiting in the 90s. K-State doesn't show up in any of his research. OU, UT, CU, A&M & NU were pretty well mainstays in the rankings throughout the decade. Baylor even makes an appearance.
http://www.bigrednetwork.com/story/a_brief_history_of_husker_recruiting_1990-99/
-
Another article about 90's recruiting. K-State specifically mentioned as a team with great on field success and very little recruiting success.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/college/recruiting/news/2000/02/01/signing_day_preview/