goemaw.com
TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Basketball is hard => Topic started by: kougar24 on January 25, 2012, 10:41:32 PM
-
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww1.pictures.zimbio.com%2Fgi%2FMartavious%2BIrving%2BYeqEY6E2A3wm.jpg&hash=afdc969285ab1db0ad96be1c518cd29740f576b3)
-
Suck one.
-
'grats kougs
-
loves the jumper.
-
loves the "hey you guys are just standing around so i'm gonna take it to the rim k."
-
:TeamTriceps: :TayTaySaysHey: :love:
-
Outside of convicted felon T-Rob he is the most jacked guy in conf. If he were Captain, the Costra Concordia would have never sunk.
-
http://youtu.be/jzGzGvlKZn4?t=38s (http://youtu.be/jzGzGvlKZn4?t=38s)
-
http://youtu.be/jzGzGvlKZn4?t=38s (http://youtu.be/jzGzGvlKZn4?t=38s)
Fish in the sea: you know how I feel.
Another thing 'Tay likes? Picking people's pockets near midcourt.
-
Love 'Tay. Most improved award?
-
keep letting the make believe martavious haters have it kougz!
-
as a lifetime member of #teamTAY it does feel good that the "offense is the only thing that matters crowd" can join our cause :ksu:
-
I have been on #teamtay since before it existed. I mean, the very first open scrimmage i went to before his freshman season, when Frank screamed his first name in a silent OOD, he was instantly cemented as receiving unconditional :love: from mocat. i mean just look at my av and sig. haven't changed it once. :)
-
I've always kind of thought of Tay as the guard version of Jamar. Mainly in that he plays really hard, but sometimes is prone to mistakes and is a bit unconventional. When he's good, he's really good.
-
I've always kind of thought of Tay as the guard version of Jamar. Mainly in that he plays really hard, but sometimes is prone to mistakes and is a bit unconventional. When he's good, he's really good.
Not as moody as Jamar imo
-
mocat is the OG martavious superfan. that is confirmed.
-
mocat is the OG martavious superfan. that is confirmed.
Yes, no one would argue that.
-
you GUYS :blush:
-
I've always kind of thought of Tay as the guard version of Jamar. Mainly in that he plays really hard, but sometimes is prone to mistakes and is a bit unconventional. When he's good, he's really good.
Not as moody as Jamar imo
True, but I can't remember one Cat player (ever) as moody as Jamar.
-
Outside of convicted felon T-Rob he is the most jacked guy in conf. If he were Captain, the Costra Concordia would have never sunk.
Denied. Tay is much more ripped than Tommy. Pretty sure Tay has a 12-pack.
-
I've always kind of thought of Tay as the guard version of Jamar. Mainly in that he plays really hard, but sometimes is prone to mistakes and is a bit unconventional. When he's good, he's really good.
Not as moody as Jamar imo
True, but I can't remember one Cat player (ever) as moody as Jamar.
Lance Harris
-
Remember that social network thing where you could anonymously ask Tay questions? He has always been the people's player.
-
Remember that social network thing where you could anonymously ask Tay questions? He has always been the people's player.
no i do not remember that, but i do remember this:
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1141.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fn590%2Fchunkles22%2Ftaysays.gif&hash=4c0575b12ba232d1202be3e2e43a587b6bf3b66a)
-
WOW, AND IT ONLY TOOK LIKE 100 GAMES FOR KOUGS TO BE RIGHT
:flush:
-
His biceps have a 12 pack.
-
Does anyone know if we give him additional "benefits/monies" for the tunnel dance or was that part of his contra... I mean scholarship? tia.
-
WOW, AND IT ONLY TOOK LIKE 100 GAMES FOR KOUGS TO BE RIGHT
:flush:
No it didn't, dumbass. He's been solid all year.
-
WOW, AND IT ONLY TOOK LIKE 100 GAMES FOR KOUGS TO BE RIGHT
:flush:
No it didn't, dumbass. He's been solid all year.
If by solid you mean consistently slightly below average for a big 12 guard than you are right. Great game for him last night, though.
-
kougs, ignore the haters.
-
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww1.pictures.zimbio.com%2Fgi%2FMartavious%2BIrving%2BYeqEY6E2A3wm.jpg&hash=afdc969285ab1db0ad96be1c518cd29740f576b3)
I do miss those unis
-
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww1.pictures.zimbio.com%2Fgi%2FMartavious%2BIrving%2BYeqEY6E2A3wm.jpg&hash=afdc969285ab1db0ad96be1c518cd29740f576b3)
I do miss those unis
Tuck outed.
-
I sometimes tuck into my underwear. That's normal, right?
-
I sometimes tuck into my underwear. That's normal, right?
Could be a party foul if it comes out with streaks, but I'm not judging.
-
I love Marty, but he is only slightly better than Vic at his position.
-
I love Marty, but he is only slightly better than Vic at his position.
Really?
-
I love Marty, but he is only slightly better than Vic at his position.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
-
I love Marty, but he is only slightly better than Vic at his position.
:bait:
-
I love Marty, but he is only slightly better than Vic at his position.
:bait:
Has to be. I hope.
-
I love Marty, but he is only slightly better than Vic at his position.
Really?
Using the eye test here of course, maybe there are some statistics that would change my mind.
-
I love Marty, but he is only slightly better than Vic at his position.
Really?
Using the eye test here of course, maybe there are some statistics that would change my mind.
The eye test tells me Vic is akward and would have trouble in some rec leagues. The eye test tells me tay would be a great RB, has a great handle, and a beautiful elbow jumper. But hey, that's just me.
-
Tay has bad handles, probably the worst thing he does, you should get your eyes checked.
-
Tay has bad handles, probably the worst thing he does, you should get your eyes checked.
Not on the drive when he stops and pops from 10-15 ft. Maybe when bringing the ball up the court. Tay is great at creating his own shot inside the land of the trees.
-
I love Marty, but he is only slightly better than Vic at his position.
Really?
Using the eye test here of course, maybe there are some statistics that would change my mind.
They play vastly different positions, so its difficult. But just looking at things like Off Rating or eFG% is somewhat valid. Granted Vic is a better rebounder, but he should be, otherwise its hard to say in any way that Tay is "slightly better than Vic at his position".
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=victor-ojeleye&p1=martavious-irving
-
Tay has bad handles, probably the worst thing he does, you should get your eyes checked.
Not on the drive when he stops and pops from 10-15 ft. Maybe when bringing the ball up the court. Tay is great at creating his own shot inside the land of the trees.
yes, this is how I see it.
-
Tay has bad handles, probably the worst thing he does, you should get your eyes checked.
Not on the drive when he stops and pops from 10-15 ft. Maybe when bringing the ball up the court. Tay is great at creating his own shot inside the land of the trees.
yes, this is how I see it.
Here is Tay compared to the rest of our guards.
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=rodney-mcgruder&p1=martavious-irving&p2=will-spradling&p3=angel-rodriguez&p4=shane-southwell&p5=5-jeremy-jones
-
I love Marty, but he is only slightly better than Vic at his position.
Really?
Using the eye test here of course, maybe there are some statistics that would change my mind.
They play vastly different positions, so its difficult. But just looking at things like Off Rating or eFG% is somewhat valid. Granted Vic is a better rebounder, but he should be, otherwise its hard to say in any way that Tay is "slightly better than Vic at his position".
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=victor-ojeleye&p1=martavious-irving
I'm going to stick with slightly for now, let me know if any more interesting data comes in.
-
WOW, AND IT ONLY TOOK LIKE 100 GAMES FOR KOUGS TO BE RIGHT
:flush:
No it didn't, dumbass. He's been solid all year.
If by solid you mean consistently slightly below average for a big 12 guard than you are right. Great game for him last night, though.
Below average offensively, first class defensively.
-
WOW, AND IT ONLY TOOK LIKE 100 GAMES FOR KOUGS TO BE RIGHT
:flush:
No it didn't, dumbass. He's been solid all year.
If by solid you mean consistently slightly below average for a big 12 guard than you are right. Great game for him last night, though.
first class defensively.
He isn't. Announcers just say that because of his physique.
-
He isn't. Announcers just say that because of his physique.
Who would you say is our best perimeter defender?
-
He isn't. Announcers just say that because of his physique.
Who would you say is our best perimeter defender?
Rodney seems to do a decent job?
-
He isn't. Announcers just say that because of his physique.
Who would you say is our best perimeter defender?
will
-
he is a good enough athlete and strong enough to be a horrid matchup for undersized/athletic guards.
-
he is a good enough athlete and strong enough to be a horrid matchup for undersized/athletic guards.
Yeah, they kept talking about how well that little guard played (and he did some things offensively), but I wonder how many points he gave up off his multiple TOs and the fact that he really couldn't guard anyone.
-
He isn't. Announcers just say that because of his physique.
Who would you say is our best perimeter defender?
I asked this question awhile back on a similar challenge to 'Tay's crown, and someone (MiR?) said Shane. I laughed for a good 5 minutes.
-
From my LBBIQ lenses it looks like Tay has a much flatter trajectory to his jumper than Will or Rod. Any HBBiQ'rs confirm?
-
From my LBBIQ lenses it looks like Tay has a much flatter trajectory to his jumper than Will or Rod. Any HBBiQ'rs confirm?
Great question, wish we could get that protracker software they use for golf on this........wait....... eff off instead k?
-
From my LBBIQ lenses it looks like Tay has a much flatter trajectory to his jumper than Will or Rod. Any HBBiQ'rs confirm?
Great question, wish we could get that protracker software they use for golf on this........wait....... eff off instead k?
:horrorsurprise:
-
I asked this question awhile back on a similar challenge to 'Tay's crown, and someone (MiR?) said Shane. I laughed for a good 5 minutes.
me. i stand by that, although i note that none of our guards are very good as individuals.
-
oh, btw, i lolled for a good five minutes that you think the crown would be irving's if it wasn't southie's.
-
I asked this question awhile back on a similar challenge to 'Tay's crown, and someone (MiR?) said Shane. I laughed for a good 5 minutes.
me. i stand by that, although i note that none of our guards are very good as individuals.
None of the regulars are significantly worse than the others, either. They all have slightly different skills, but it's rare to have a major drop off as long as Jones isn't on the court.
-
-Shane (when he wants to)
-Irving
-Will
-Angel
-
jfc, when are people going to realize we don't have anyone that can stop the damn ball, they just funnel people into the blades of the human helicopter that is D.O.B.
-
imho he is one of the better on ball defenders in the league
Point Plankr is obviously better but i struggle to come up with many others
-
I like Tay's spin move when he gets 5-6 feet from the basket. It's the fastest I have ever seen. He has only done it a few times this year but I get dizzy just watching it.
-
oh, btw, i lolled for a good five minutes that you think the crown would be irving's if it wasn't southie's.
:dubious:
Shanegoat isn't even top 3. Probably slower laterally than Sprads.
-
Jesus Christ there is basically no difference between any of them. Any argument on "who's the best defender" boils down to Martavious's muscles and Spradling's skin color. Just brutal.
-
Jesus Christ there is basically no difference between any of them. Any argument on "who's the best defender" boils down to Martavious's muscles and Spradling's skin color. Just brutal.
Yeah, there isn't any big difference between them. The only thing that might be is whether or not they do what they are supposed to do according to how we play opponents, etc, but as fans we would never really know that. We have Frank's general premise in man defense of pressuring the ball everywhere on the perimeter with a rim protector, but there are also going to be specific spots for different teams/players where we want them to advance/catch the ball and where we don't want them to advance/catch the ball.
-
i think martavious has quicker feet and it seems that hedraws tougher defensive assignments than marty
-
I like when angel gets out there and gets up in someones face to steal the ball/get called for a foul/get blown by. he is very aggresive.
-
Tay and Angel get a few steals. Gruds gets a few less. Basically nobody else gets any. Steals are exciting, and nicely quantifiable, so there is my list of best perimeter defenders.
-
Tay and Angel get a few steals. Gruds gets a few less. Basically nobody else gets any. Steals are exciting, and nicely quantifiable, so there is my list of best perimeter defenders.
The thing about Frank's defense it has an amazing ability to force TOs without getting a lot of steals. Frank's first three years his teams forced steals at a decent pace, but never better than the Top 115 in the country. The last two years not even in the Top 200 at forcing steals. But every year we force teams to turn the ball over nearly 1 out of every 4 possessions, 2 of those years as one of the Top 25 teams in the country. Teams are more likely to throw the ball out of bounds (or draw a charge) than they are to get the ball stolen from an individual defender, so its hard to judge individual K-State players or K-State teams based on steals. JMHO.
-
Tay and Angel get a few steals. Gruds gets a few less. Basically nobody else gets any. Steals are exciting, and nicely quantifiable, so there is my list of best perimeter defenders.
The thing about Frank's defense it has an amazing ability to force TOs without getting a lot of steals. Frank's first three years his teams forced steals at a decent pace, but never better than the Top 115 in the country. The last two years not even in the Top 200 at forcing steals. But every year we force teams to turn the ball over nearly 1 out of every 4 possessions, 2 of those years as one of the Top 25 teams in the country. Teams are more likely to throw the ball out of bounds (or draw a charge) than they are to get the ball stolen from an individual defender, so its hard to judge individual K-State players or K-State teams based on steals. JMHO.
Steals are more likely to lead to runouts, so I'm going to put more weight on those. Plus, they're easier to look up.
-
I like when angel gets out there and gets up in someones face to steal the ball/get called for a foul/get blown by. he is very aggresive.
I like how incredulous he gets when a hand-check is called on him.
-
I like when angel gets out there and gets up in someones face to steal the ball/get called for a foul/get blown by. he is very aggresive.
I like how incredulous he gets when a hand-check is called on him.
yes, this is very enjoyable
-
I like when angel gets out there and gets up in someones face to steal the ball/get called for a foul/get blown by. he is very aggresive.
I like how incredulous he gets when a hand-check is called on him.
yes, this is very enjoyable
It would be much more enjoyable if it incorporated more anger. Incredulous is kind of Jamar's deal. We need someone to display more anger towards the ref at every obvious whistle they get.
-
I like when angel gets out there and gets up in someones face to steal the ball/get called for a foul/get blown by. he is very aggresive.
I like how incredulous he gets when a hand-check is called on him.
yes, this is very enjoyable
SD since you ignored my question in the OU thread I will ask again: I will be in Omaha on Saturday. Is the OU game going to be on FSN in Omaha? The Cox TV listings show a "College Basketball" game at 6 pm but does not list the teams. :ohno:
-
sorry, missed it mocat. I was busy fighting virulent bigots. I will be in Manhattan so I haven't even checked. All of our games so far have been on either FSN or WB (chanell 11 or 1011 on cox) so I would guess so but can't confirm :dunno:
-
I like when angel gets out there and gets up in someones face to steal the ball/get called for a foul/get blown by. he is very aggresive.
I like how incredulous he gets when a hand-check is called on him.
yes, this is very enjoyable
It would be much more enjoyable if it incorporated more anger. Incredulous is kind of Jamar's deal. We need someone to display more anger towards the ref at every obvious whistle they get.
Jamar is gone after this year. We will need Angel's incredulousness going forward.
-
Steals are more likely to lead to runouts, so I'm going to put more weight on those. Plus, they're easier to look up.
True, but you also have to think about the nature of our steals. Often we think of steals as a defender stealing the ball from the ballhandler, and we don't do that a lot, nor does Frank emphasize that. If you think about what our defense does, one of the primary things we do well is making the balhandler uncomfortable and forcing him to make passes 25-30 feet away from the basket. Therefore when we do get steals, most often they are stolen passes (usually bad passes), just like the TOs we force are mostly bad passes, often just thrown out of bounds to no one. So even as a measure of perimeter defense, steals can be deceptive in Frank's defense because the steal usually comes from a defender off the ball that is defending a pass reciever and not usually just taking the ball from the ballhandler.
Also, this sounds like a great _FANalysis basketball breakdown; going back to look at good defensive games (like Tech) and breaking down the numerous TOs/steals and how we forced them.
-
Jesus Christ there is basically no difference between any of them. Any argument on "who's the best defender" boils down to Martavious's muscles and Spradling's skin color. Just brutal.
horseshit Rusty, you're better than that or should be anyway. People, me, think Will is defensively inferior because I can think of at least five games this season where Will absolutely could not keep his man in front of him. Now in these cases would any of our other guards have done a decent job, likely not, although we looked much better defensively against UT when Irving guarded Kabongo and Spradling guarded Brown. Will more than anything is victim of having to guard the other guys quicker guards, but that's life. Let's also not forget that Will has turned into a hack machine as of late. Fact of the matter things that people look at statistically to determine defensive prowess it is hard to argue that Will statistically is better than Irving, Rodriguez, Southwell, or McGruder.
That blanket statement you made is embarrassing.
-
Also, this sounds like a great _FANalysis basketball breakdown; going back to look at good defensive games (like Tech) and breaking down the numerous TOs/steals and how we forced them.
Would read.
-
Jesus Christ there is basically no difference between any of them. Any argument on "who's the best defender" boils down to Martavious's muscles and Spradling's skin color. Just brutal.
horseshit Rusty, you're better than that or should be anyway. People, me, think Will is defensively inferior because I can think of at least five games this season where Will absolutely could not keep his man in front of him. Now in these cases would any of our other guards have done a decent job, likely not, although we looked much better defensively against UT when Irving guarded Kabongo and Spradling guarded Brown. Will more than anything is victim of having to guard the other guys quicker guards, but that's life. Let's also not forget that Will has turned into a hack machine as of late. Fact of the matter things that people look at statistically to determine defensive prowess it is hard to argue that Will statistically is better than Irving, Rodriguez, Southwell, or McGruder.
First of all, in the bold part you're basically admitting that there is virtually no difference in how well we defend with our backcourt players. Secondly, you're ignoring the fact that there is more to defense than who is guarding the ball. I also think that the UT game was pretty balanced aside from UT's big first half run. But I'm sure you have stats to prove that wrong, though.
-
southie and ar-t sometimes make the guy they're defending look bad. the others never do that. even so, i agree completely with michigan, that though they all have different strengths, they are all pretty equally mediocre.
-
what if you counted a charge taken as a steal? hmmmm
-
Jesus Christ there is basically no difference between any of them. Any argument on "who's the best defender" boils down to Martavious's muscles and Spradling's skin color. Just brutal.
horseshit Rusty, you're better than that or should be anyway. People, me, think Will is defensively inferior because I can think of at least five games this season where Will absolutely could not keep his man in front of him. Now in these cases would any of our other guards have done a decent job, likely not, although we looked much better defensively against UT when Irving guarded Kabongo and Spradling guarded Brown. Will more than anything is victim of having to guard the other guys quicker guards, but that's life. Let's also not forget that Will has turned into a hack machine as of late. Fact of the matter things that people look at statistically to determine defensive prowess it is hard to argue that Will statistically is better than Irving, Rodriguez, Southwell, or McGruder.
First of all, in the bold part you're basically admitting that there is virtually no difference in how well we defend with our backcourt players. Secondly, you're ignoring the fact that there is more to defense than who is guarding the ball. I also think that the UT game was pretty balanced aside from UT's big first half run. But I'm sure you have stats to prove that wrong, though.
No there is a difference, a slight difference between the guards but I think there is one nonetheless. I was simply pointing out that to dismiss people not listing Spradling as the best defensive guard because of race is insulting to all who feel like Spradling isn't our best defensive guard.
-
Jesus Christ there is basically no difference between any of them. Any argument on "who's the best defender" boils down to Martavious's muscles and Spradling's skin color. Just brutal.
horseshit Rusty, you're better than that or should be anyway. People, me, think Will is defensively inferior because I can think of at least five games this season where Will absolutely could not keep his man in front of him. Now in these cases would any of our other guards have done a decent job, likely not, although we looked much better defensively against UT when Irving guarded Kabongo and Spradling guarded Brown. Will more than anything is victim of having to guard the other guys quicker guards, but that's life. Let's also not forget that Will has turned into a hack machine as of late. Fact of the matter things that people look at statistically to determine defensive prowess it is hard to argue that Will statistically is better than Irving, Rodriguez, Southwell, or McGruder.
First of all, in the bold part you're basically admitting that there is virtually no difference in how well we defend with our backcourt players. Secondly, you're ignoring the fact that there is more to defense than who is guarding the ball. I also think that the UT game was pretty balanced aside from UT's big first half run. But I'm sure you have stats to prove that wrong, though.
No there is a difference, a slight difference between the guards but I think there is one nonetheless. I was simply pointing out that to dismiss people not listing Spradling as the best defensive guard because of race is insulting to all who feel like Spradling isn't our best defensive guard.
I have no problem with people saying Spradling isn't the best defensive guard. I really don't have a problem with someone saying he is worse than Irving, Angel, Southie, and Rodney, because they are all about the same like I said. But I would say most people he say he is a poor defender (or significantly worse than the others) base it on a combination of his skin color and a misunderstanding of what Frank asks his on-ball defenders to do.
southie and ar-t sometimes make the guy they're defending look bad. the others never do that. even so, i agree completely with michigan, that though they all have different strengths, they are all pretty equally mediocre.
Maybe they'd be mediocre in one-on-one, but as a pieces in the total unit they are all pretty good IMO.
-
I was simply pointing out that to dismiss people not listing Spradling as the best defensive guard because of race is insulting to all who feel like Spradling isn't our best defensive guard.
there are no mediocre white players in american basketball. they all either suck and should get off the court or are mvps.
-
I was simply pointing out that to dismiss people not listing Spradling as the best defensive guard because of race is insulting to all who feel like Spradling isn't our best defensive guard.
there are no mediocre white players in american basketball. they all either suck and should get off the court or are mvps.
The Big 10 conference is laughing its ass off at this.
-
The Big 10 conference is laughing its ass off at this.
it works better in leagues where there's only 2 or 3 on the court at a time.
-
Pledger went 5-5 and had an assist while Will was guarding him. Frank switched Will off. Frank is underrating Will because he's white.
-
Irving sucks.
-
Pledger went 5-5 and had an assist while Will was guarding him. Frank switched Will off. Frank is underrating Will because he's white.
spradling did the best job of any of the guards on pledger. and he was awful.
-
Pledger went 5-5 and had an assist while Will was guarding him. Frank switched Will off. Frank is underrating Will because he's white.
spradling did the best job of any of the guards on pledger. and he was awful.
No one did the best job, they all sucked
-
Pledger went 5-5 and had an assist while Will was guarding him. Frank switched Will off. Frank is underrating Will because he's white.
spradling did the best job of any of the guards on pledger. and he was awful.
Will was rough ridin' awful on Plegder.
-
no shock irving back to normal against regular competition. 5 turnovers :flush: