StL County Cops Shoot Teen

[chuckjames]

The Governor campaigned against desegregation in '92? wtf?

This is a completely separate issue but i remember being terrified of being bussed when i was in elementary school.

[chuckjames]

That live tweet thing is really interesting to me. I trust that more than witness statements, and it basically backed up what the witnesses are saying.

[Rage Against the McKee]

That live tweet thing is really interesting to me. I trust that more than witness statements, and it basically backed up what the witnesses are saying.

I'm sure the autopsy will corroborate the witnesses, as well.

[michigancat]

this isn't a good look

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/ferguson-police-officer-not-aware-of-michael-brown-robbery-suspect

[420seriouscat69]

I feel like this is related, but I just heard about this on 96.5 The Buzz. It's so redic! 

http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2014/08/12/westlake-mall-cop-ignores-agitator-maces-african-american-bystander-at-israel-protest

[8manpick]

Man reading those live tweets chilled me. I mean, seems pretty reliable, right?

[420seriouscat69]

I feel like this is related, but I just heard about this on 96.5 The Buzz. It's so redic! 

http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2014/08/12/westlake-mall-cop-ignores-agitator-maces-african-american-bystander-at-israel-protest

Listen to the audio. All the ppl are telling the cop what a dumbass he is.

[nicname]

I enjoy it when Trim explains laws so succinctly. My trust is complete.

Real story here. The relationship between the black community, especially majority black communities and cops needs to get turned around pronto. Requiring police, sheriff, etc. to wear cameras, have dash cams is a good start. It will take more from both sides to really solve the problem.

[nicname]

I think this is just after the shooting. What kind of message does that send?

Doesn't seem like serving and protecting to me.

[chuckjames]

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/119102/what-white-st-louis-thinks-about-ferguson

White people are the worst sometimes.

[Rage Against the McKee]

I enjoy it when Trim explains laws so succinctly. My trust is complete.

Real story here. The relationship between the black community, especially majority black communities and cops needs to get turned around pronto. Requiring police, sheriff, etc. to wear cameras, have dash cams is a good start. It will take more from both sides to really solve the problem.

He didn't explain anything, though. He said "deliberation" doesn't mean what it does on a tv movie and gave no explanation whatsoever as to what it does mean in the eyes of the law.

The dictionary definition of "deliberation" is "long and careful consideration or discussion."

 

[420seriouscat69]

I feel like this is related, but I just heard about this on 96.5 The Buzz. It's so redic! 

http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2014/08/12/westlake-mall-cop-ignores-agitator-maces-african-american-bystander-at-israel-protest

Listen to the audio. All the ppl are telling the cop what a dumbass he is.

Fine! I'll start my own thread about it. 

[kim carnes]

I feel like this is related, but I just heard about this on 96.5 The Buzz. It's so redic! 

http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2014/08/12/westlake-mall-cop-ignores-agitator-maces-african-american-bystander-at-israel-protest

Listen to the audio. All the ppl are telling the cop what a dumbass he is.

Fine! I'll start my own thread about it. 

Good, get the hell out of here

[WillieWatanabe]

I think this is just after the shooting. What kind of message does that send?

Doesn't seem like serving and protecting to me.

am i missing something?

[8manpick]

I think this is just after the shooting. What kind of message does that send?

Doesn't seem like serving and protecting to me.

am i missing something?

The assault rifle perhaps

[nicname]

I enjoy it when Trim explains laws so succinctly. My trust is complete.

Real story here. The relationship between the black community, especially majority black communities and cops needs to get turned around pronto. Requiring police, sheriff, etc. to wear cameras, have dash cams is a good start. It will take more from both sides to really solve the problem.

He didn't explain anything, though. He said "deliberation" doesn't mean what it does on a tv movie and gave no explanation whatsoever as to what it does mean in the eyes of the law.

The dictionary definition of "deliberation" is "long and careful consideration or discussion."

 

What I got from Trim is that somewhere between the altercation, first shot, and subsequent 8 or so shots, there was a point that the cop deliberated whether to stop pumping this dude full of lead or continue. He obviously chose the latter.

[WillieWatanabe]

oh

[Rage Against the McKee]

I enjoy it when Trim explains laws so succinctly. My trust is complete.

Real story here. The relationship between the black community, especially majority black communities and cops needs to get turned around pronto. Requiring police, sheriff, etc. to wear cameras, have dash cams is a good start. It will take more from both sides to really solve the problem.

He didn't explain anything, though. He said "deliberation" doesn't mean what it does on a tv movie and gave no explanation whatsoever as to what it does mean in the eyes of the law.

The dictionary definition of "deliberation" is "long and careful consideration or discussion."

 

What I got from Trim is that somewhere between the altercation, first shot, and subsequent 8 or so shots, there was a point that the cop deliberated whether to stop pumping this dude full of lead or continue. He obviously chose the latter.

How long does it take to squeeze a trigger 8 times, though? I can see why a prosecutor would want to pursue first degree murder, just not why any reasonable person would look at the law and come to the conclusion that it was. It just seems more like a killing in a fit of rage to me than something the officer really thought about before going through with it.

Maybe the statute defines "deliberation" differently than the dictionary, and that would certainly be worth noting, but if it doesn't, first degree murder seems like a big reach to me.

[Trim]

I enjoy it when Trim explains laws so succinctly. My trust is complete.

Real story here. The relationship between the black community, especially majority black communities and cops needs to get turned around pronto. Requiring police, sheriff, etc. to wear cameras, have dash cams is a good start. It will take more from both sides to really solve the problem.

He didn't explain anything, though. He said "deliberation" doesn't mean what it does on a tv movie and gave no explanation whatsoever as to what it does mean in the eyes of the law.

The dictionary definition of "deliberation" is "long and careful consideration or discussion."

 

What I got from Trim is that somewhere between the altercation, first shot, and subsequent 8 or so shots, there was a point that the cop deliberated whether to stop pumping this dude full of lead or continue. He obviously chose the latter.

Yes, and there's probably an even more definitive point in time here, that being after shot 1 in/around/at the car that seems to have been the product of a struggle (it's clearly up for debate who caused that problem), and once that was complete and Brown was running away or already on his knees with his hands up, and the cop thought to himself (deliberated, if you will) "should I shoot this guy dead?"

[Trim]

I enjoy it when Trim explains laws so succinctly. My trust is complete.

Real story here. The relationship between the black community, especially majority black communities and cops needs to get turned around pronto. Requiring police, sheriff, etc. to wear cameras, have dash cams is a good start. It will take more from both sides to really solve the problem.

He didn't explain anything, though. He said "deliberation" doesn't mean what it does on a tv movie and gave no explanation whatsoever as to what it does mean in the eyes of the law.

The dictionary definition of "deliberation" is "long and careful consideration or discussion."

 

What I got from Trim is that somewhere between the altercation, first shot, and subsequent 8 or so shots, there was a point that the cop deliberated whether to stop pumping this dude full of lead or continue. He obviously chose the latter.

How long does it take to squeeze a trigger 8 times, though? I can see why a prosecutor would want to pursue first degree murder, just not why any reasonable person would look at the law and come to the conclusion that it was. It just seems more like a killing in a fit of rage to me than something the officer really thought about before going through with it.

Maybe the statute defines "deliberation" differently than the dictionary, and that would certainly be worth noting, but if it doesn't, first degree murder seems like a big reach to me.

I already know this is a waste of time, but here:

In State v Miller, Justice Robert Ulrich of the Missouri Court of Appeals provided a summary of the criminal law as regards first degree murder and the necessary element of deliberation:

"A person commits the crime of murder in the first degree if he knowingly causes the death of another person after deliberation upon the matter. Deliberation required for conviction for murder in the first degree is defined as cool reflection for any length of time no matter how brief. The deliberation necessary to support a conviction of first-degree murder need only be momentary; it is only necessary that the evidence show that the defendant considered taking another's life in a deliberate state of mind. A deliberate act is a free act of the will done in furtherance of a formed design to gratify a feeling of revenge or to accomplish some other unlawful purpose and while not under the influence of violent passion suddenly aroused by some provocation. Deliberation may be inferred from the circumstances surrounding the murder."

I obviously can't give you details, but the stabbing example is real, and upheld on appeal.  hatingfrancis' wife can vouch for me.

[Rage Against the McKee]

I enjoy it when Trim explains laws so succinctly. My trust is complete.

Real story here. The relationship between the black community, especially majority black communities and cops needs to get turned around pronto. Requiring police, sheriff, etc. to wear cameras, have dash cams is a good start. It will take more from both sides to really solve the problem.

He didn't explain anything, though. He said "deliberation" doesn't mean what it does on a tv movie and gave no explanation whatsoever as to what it does mean in the eyes of the law.

The dictionary definition of "deliberation" is "long and careful consideration or discussion."

 

What I got from Trim is that somewhere between the altercation, first shot, and subsequent 8 or so shots, there was a point that the cop deliberated whether to stop pumping this dude full of lead or continue. He obviously chose the latter.

How long does it take to squeeze a trigger 8 times, though? I can see why a prosecutor would want to pursue first degree murder, just not why any reasonable person would look at the law and come to the conclusion that it was. It just seems more like a killing in a fit of rage to me than something the officer really thought about before going through with it.

Maybe the statute defines "deliberation" differently than the dictionary, and that would certainly be worth noting, but if it doesn't, first degree murder seems like a big reach to me.

I already know this is a waste of time, but here:

In State v Miller, Justice Robert Ulrich of the Missouri Court of Appeals provided a summary of the criminal law as regards first degree murder and the necessary element of deliberation:

"A person commits the crime of murder in the first degree if he knowingly causes the death of another person after deliberation upon the matter. Deliberation required for conviction for murder in the first degree is defined as cool reflection for any length of time no matter how brief. The deliberation necessary to support a conviction of first-degree murder need only be momentary; it is only necessary that the evidence show that the defendant considered taking another's life in a deliberate state of mind. A deliberate act is a free act of the will done in furtherance of a formed design to gratify a feeling of revenge or to accomplish some other unlawful purpose and while not under the influence of violent passion suddenly aroused by some provocation. Deliberation may be inferred from the circumstances surrounding the murder."

I obviously can't give you details, but the stabbing example is real, and upheld on appeal.  hatingfrancis' wife can vouch for me.

Thanks, Trim. That is very helpful. It's all I was asking for, really, and now I can understand your argument. I bolded the part that makes me still think this might be second degree murder, depending on what evidence comes forth. Is the penalty for 2nd degree just really light or something?

[Trim]

Thanks, Trim. That is very helpful. It's all I was asking for, really, and now I can understand your argument. I bolded the part that makes me still think this might be second degree murder, depending on what evidence comes forth. Is the penalty for 2nd degree just really light or something?

I'd still have already kicked you off the jury, so it would work out fine.

2nd degree is a class A felony, which has a wide spectrum of 10-30 years or life.  1st degree is also a class A, but has a special rule in the statute that the punishment shall be death or imprisonment for life without parole.

[star seed 7]

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/119102/what-white-st-louis-thinks-about-ferguson

White people are the worst sometimes.

A lot of eye rolling moments from both the author and the idiots interviewed

[michigancat]

These guys I swear

The officer who shot Ferguson teen Michael Brown stopped Brown and another teen because they were walking in the street, not because of a robbery a few minutes earlier, Ferguson Police Chief Tom Jackson said Friday afternoon.

Jackson said the officer was aware cigars had been taken in the robbery of a store nearby, but did not know when he encountered Brown and Dorian Johnson that they might be suspects. He stopped them because they were walking in the street, Jackson said.

But Jackson told the Post-Dispatch that the officer, Darren Wilson, saw cigars in Brown's hand and realized he might be the robber.

http://m.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/ferguson-officer-stopped-michael-brown-for-walking-in-street-but/article_52c40b84-ad90-5f9a-973c-70d628d0be04.html?mobile_touch=true

[Fedor]

These guys I swear

The officer who shot Ferguson teen Michael Brown stopped Brown and another teen because they were walking in the street, not because of a robbery a few minutes earlier, Ferguson Police Chief Tom Jackson said Friday afternoon.

Jackson said the officer was aware cigars had been taken in the robbery of a store nearby, but did not know when he encountered Brown and Dorian Johnson that they might be suspects. He stopped them because they were walking in the street, Jackson said.

But Jackson told the Post-Dispatch that the officer, Darren Wilson, saw cigars in Brown's hand and realized he might be the robber.

http://m.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/ferguson-officer-stopped-michael-brown-for-walking-in-street-but/article_52c40b84-ad90-5f9a-973c-70d628d0be04.html?mobile_touch=true

I heard yackety sax in my head while I was reading that.