Angel is absolutely...

[sys]

I feel sorry for Martavious Irving.  He's busted his ass for three years on the court and in the weight room for nothing, apparently.

shoulda busted his ass learning how to dribble, shoot and pass.  he was more than muscley enough as freshman.

[TheProdigiousTalent]

I feel sorry for Martavious Irving.  He's busted his ass for three years on the court and in the weight room for nothing, apparently.

shoulda busted his ass learning how to dribble, shoot and pass.  he was more than muscley enough as freshman.

His game has improved dramatically, and he's an excellent defender.  Unless he was hurt or being disciplined, you can't justify leaving him on the bench all night (given the circumstances).  You just can't.  To state otherwise is just absurd.  Sorry.

[sys]

I feel sorry for Martavious Irving.  He's busted his ass for three years on the court and in the weight room for nothing, apparently.

shoulda busted his ass learning how to dribble, shoot and pass.  he was more than muscley enough as freshman.

His game has improved dramatically, and he's a solid player.  Unless he was hurt or being disciplined, you can't justify leaving him on the bench all night (given the circumstances).  You just can't.  To state otherwise is just absurd.  Sorry.

it's pretty easy.  ar-t is a better, more skilled player, and moving spradling off the ball is a better lineup than spradling at the 1, irving at the 2.  so, playing ar-t over irving makes you better at two positions.



he probably would have been better than ar-t tonight, but you can only assume that in retrospect.  you shouldn´t pull a better player, playing hard but poorly, for a worse player any more than you'd change coins after flipping a run of tails.

[Andy]

JO was pretty good tonight, would have been even better if the guards would have dumped to him for more DOBS

Or if frank wouldn't pull him and not put him back in for forever.

JO played 26 minutes, Jamar was the only big who played more.  Frankly all of the bigs played well.  Not sure how anyone could have an issue with the distribution of minutes for the bigs.

frank pulled him after he made several great plays in a row at the start of the 2nd and it seemed forever till he got back out there.  it was probably more about the timing than the total minutes for me.

[Andy]

Angel is by far the best we've got.

The hard part is wrapping your mind around it.

a quick glance at our guard recruiting the past several years makes it easier

[SkinnyBenny]

 

Buncha Baghdad Bobs in this thread.

[HELLHAMMER]

Angel was as far away from a D1 point guard last night as you can get.  The short little bastard is not ready for prime time yet.

[wabash909]

Angel is by far the best we've got.

The hard part is wrapping your mind around it.

a quick glance at our guard recruiting the past several years makes it easier

Recruiting better is NOT an option.

[EllToPay]

What's the score if Tay plays Angels minutes?

Remember how we looked in the second half against UT and the first half tonight?  No one penetrating the defense, no one a threat to penetrate the defense, just passing the ball 25 feet out and then throwing up a shot and hope the huge get it.  We would have has 35 minutes of that.

Why aren't people asking about Tay playing Will's minutes, did I miss something about his game?

fair enough, i'm not suggesting that tay completely replace angel. my point is he should have logged some playing time in the 2nd half.

[kso_FAN]

FWIW, I agree Tay should've played more, but instead of Southwell, not Angel. No reason for Southy's 17 minutes given what he gave us last night.

[wabash909]

I've come to the conclusion that the next players we recruit should fundamentally possess an ability to shoot a basketball.

The 18 total points in the first half was kind of my "Ah Ha" moment.

[fr@ck me]

I blame frank.  If he can't figure out you shouldn't put in a point guard who can't shoot, turns the ball over, and drives with his head down and no exit strategy then frank is just plain stupid.  We were far better with sprads at the point last year.  Not because we had pullen but because sprads doesn't turn the ball over.  We already know we aren't going to be a great offensive team, so if you aren't going to be great offensively you better protect the ball and play D.  we played D, and everyone but AR protected the ball.  Plain stupid coaching.

rumor is frank doesn't yell at AR because he is soft and can't take it.  If he is that pussified kick his ass off the team.

 

[kso_FAN]

I blame frank.  If he can't figure out you shouldn't put in a point guard who can't shoot, turns the ball over, and drives with his head down and no exit strategy then frank is just plain stupid.  We were far better with sprads at the point last year.  Not because we had pullen but because sprads doesn't turn the ball over.  We already know we aren't going to be a great offensive team, so if you aren't going to be great offensively you better protect the ball and play D.  we played D, and everyone but AR protected the ball.  Plain stupid coaching.

rumor is frank doesn't yell at AR because he is soft and can't take it.  If he is that pussified kick his ass off the team.

 

The first half was terrible, but we played our best with Angel at the point in the 2nd half. I'm not sure if people really watched our offense when Angel wasn't in the game. There are opponents where we can get by with Will at PG, KU is not one of them.

We also played 11 first half minutes without Angel in the game and our offense wasn't any better.

[pissclams]

idiots that can't realize that angel isn't to blame for our offense being completely broken, and instead is actually the one option frank has to help fix it, are rough ridin' Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) and need to go back to kstatefans/gpc.

thx for leaving, you rough ridin' dumbasses.  we don't need the $.04 cents you generate from google ads.

[Underdog Wildcat]

idiots that can't realize that angel isn't to blame for our offense being completely broken, and instead is actually the one option frank has to help fix it.

Whose fault is this?

This didn't have to be Angel's team YET, a tough situation 3 years in the making.

[SkinnyBenny]

idiots that can't realize that angel isn't to blame for our offense being completely broken, and instead is actually the one option frank has to help fix it, are rough ridin' Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) and need to go back to kstatefans/gpc.

thx for leaving, you rough ridin' dumbasses.  we don't need the $.04 cents you generate from google ads.

Idiots who can't admit Angel was a complete liability last night are trying way too hard to be (what they see as) anti-tuck. 

[kso_FAN]

idiots that can't realize that angel isn't to blame for our offense being completely broken, and instead is actually the one option frank has to help fix it.

Whose fault is this?

This didn't have to be Angel's team YET, a tough situation 3 years in the making.

Good question. This line up just isn't built to have a PG like Will, but I don't think Frank's teams in general are either. We've talked plenty about Frank's multi combo guard system, but with a primary ball handler who can get to the rim. Ultimately I suppose you have to say recruiting is to blame because it's clear that Angel is the best we have available.

[fr@ck me]

I blame frank.  If he can't figure out you shouldn't put in a point guard who can't shoot, turns the ball over, and drives with his head down and no exit strategy then frank is just plain stupid.  We were far better with sprads at the point last year.  Not because we had pullen but because sprads doesn't turn the ball over.  We already know we aren't going to be a great offensive team, so if you aren't going to be great offensively you better protect the ball and play D.  we played D, and everyone but AR protected the ball.  Plain stupid coaching.

rumor is frank doesn't yell at AR because he is soft and can't take it.  If he is that pussified kick his ass off the team.

 

The first half was terrible, but we played our best with Angel at the point in the 2nd half. I'm not sure if people really watched our offense when Angel wasn't in the game. There are opponents where we can get by with Will at PG, KU is not one of them.

We also played 11 first half minutes without Angel in the game and our offense wasn't any better.

I guess turning the ball over 7 of our 11 times is acceptable.  My bad. :tuckingshirtbackin:

[the KHAN!]

idiots that can't realize that angel isn't to blame for our offense being completely broken, and instead is actually the one option frank has to help fix it, are rough ridin' Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) and need to go back to kstatefans/gpc.

thx for leaving, you rough ridin' dumbasses.  we don't need the $.04 cents you generate from google ads.

Idiots who can't admit Angel was a complete liability last night are trying way too hard to be (what they see as) anti-tuck. 

This

[kso_FAN]

I guess turning the ball over 7 of our 11 times is acceptable.  My bad. :tuckingshirtbackin:

I never have excused his turnovers. I have said over and over he was a liability in the first half, you simply can't have a 0 assist and 5 turnover half without making any shots from your PG. Its the reason he only played 9 minutes. But again, its not like our offense picked up without him on the floor.

I am willing to acknowledge that while he still didn't hit shots, the 18 minutes he played in the 2nd half were solid with 5 assists and 2 turnovers. He helped us get back in the game. Granted, he didn't and couldn't make plays in the last couple minutes and it hurt us. But so did Will and McGruder combining to go 0 for 7 from 3, most of them good looks. Angel's bad first half contributed greatly to our poor offense and I'm not letting him off the hook for that, but we also played our best basketball with him on the floor and I don't believe we have better options than playing Angel at PG. We are limited, because he's only going to be able to play 25 or so minutes at this point and Will or someone else has to step up and fill the role, which is a struggle too.

I know these can be decieving with college basketball, but its a decent tool to look at player impact. You tell me who hurt us the worst last night: http://statsheet.com/mcb/games/2012/02/13/kansas-59-kansas-state-53/plus_minus

[michigancat]

idiots that can't realize that angel isn't to blame for our offense being completely broken, and instead is actually the one option frank has to help fix it.

Whose fault is this?

This didn't have to be Angel's team YET, a tough situation 3 years in the making.

It's the fault of Jio Fontan and Mike Rosario.

[pissclams]

idiots that can't realize that angel isn't to blame for our offense being completely broken, and instead is actually the one option frank has to help fix it.

Whose fault is this?

This didn't have to be Angel's team YET, a tough situation 3 years in the making.

serious question?

idiots that can't realize that angel isn't to blame for our offense being completely broken, and instead is actually the one option frank has to help fix it, are rough ridin' Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) and need to go back to kstatefans/gpc.

thx for leaving, you rough ridin' dumbasses.  we don't need the $.04 cents you generate from google ads.

Idiots who can't admit Angel was a complete liability last night are trying way too hard to be (what they see as) anti-tuck.  

do you know who are you talking to/about?

[pissclams]

idiots that can't realize that angel isn't to blame for our offense being completely broken, and instead is actually the one option frank has to help fix it.

Whose fault is this?

This didn't have to be Angel's team YET, a tough situation 3 years in the making.

Good question. This line up just isn't built to have a PG like Will, but I don't think Frank's teams in general are either. We've talked plenty about Frank's multi combo guard system, but with a primary ball handler who can get to the rim. Ultimately I suppose you have to say recruiting is to blame because it's clear that Angel is the best we have available.

recruiting and the subsequent franking of said recruits.

[wabash909]

idiots that can't realize that angel isn't to blame for our offense being completely broken, and instead is actually the one option frank has to help fix it.

Whose fault is this?

This didn't have to be Angel's team YET, a tough situation 3 years in the making.

Good question. This line up just isn't built to have a PG like Will, but I don't think Frank's teams in general are either. We've talked plenty about Frank's multi combo guard system, but with a primary ball handler who can get to the rim. Ultimately I suppose you have to say recruiting is to blame because it's clear that Angel is the best we have available.

This absolutely is a recruiting issue and inadequately adressing the guard position in the previous two classes is the real culprit.  

Angel will hopefully get better but the burden should not all be on his shoulders.

But, this is what happens when you address the guard position in 2009 by a recruiting class that consists of Martavious Irving and Nick Russell and in 2010 with Juevol Myles and Will Spradling and I guess Shane Southwell (who isn't a guard) and then proceed to run two of the four off.  Then in 2011 mix in a JUCO guard that sits on the bench.

We've seen this coming.

[kso_FAN]

idiots that can't realize that angel isn't to blame for our offense being completely broken, and instead is actually the one option frank has to help fix it.

Whose fault is this?

This didn't have to be Angel's team YET, a tough situation 3 years in the making.

Good question. This line up just isn't built to have a PG like Will, but I don't think Frank's teams in general are either. We've talked plenty about Frank's multi combo guard system, but with a primary ball handler who can get to the rim. Ultimately I suppose you have to say recruiting is to blame because it's clear that Angel is the best we have available.

This absolutely is a recruiting issue and inadequately adressing the guard position in the previous two classes is the real culprit. 

Angel will hopefully get better but the burden should not all be on his shoulders.

But, this is what happens when you address the guard position in 2009 by a recruiting class that consists of Martavious Irving and Nick Russell and in 2010 with Juevol Myles and Will Spradling and I guess Shane Southwell (who isn't a guard) and then proceed to run two of the four off.  Then in 2011 mix in a JUCO guard that sits on the bench.

We've seen this coming.

True, its not a complete surprise.

I think its more missing out than the Franking though, its not like we've Franked a lot of guys that you can say would've been able to compete with Angel. I mean the best option at PG that was run was probably Myles? Russell?