Angel is absolutely...

[Rage Against the McKee]

Angel is really good. He played poorly against KU, but he's the best we have and that's not really a bad thing.

[pissclams]

Angel is really good. He played poorly against KU, but he's the best we have and that's not really a bad thing.

it's much easier for them to look at the problems with our offense and attempt to diagnose the issues and then place blame on a single individual (angel) without looking at and understanding the big picture.  it's a simple and emotional response.

angel did some good and bad things last night. 

ultimately, this team, with angel, was in a position at the end that they could have won a game last night.  things didn't go our way but there's no reason to hang the freshman because of it.   and dipshits that want to need to be put in their place.

[wabash909]

idiots that can't realize that angel isn't to blame for our offense being completely broken, and instead is actually the one option frank has to help fix it.

Whose fault is this?

This didn't have to be Angel's team YET, a tough situation 3 years in the making.

Good question. This line up just isn't built to have a PG like Will, but I don't think Frank's teams in general are either. We've talked plenty about Frank's multi combo guard system, but with a primary ball handler who can get to the rim. Ultimately I suppose you have to say recruiting is to blame because it's clear that Angel is the best we have available.

This absolutely is a recruiting issue and inadequately adressing the guard position in the previous two classes is the real culprit. 

Angel will hopefully get better but the burden should not all be on his shoulders.

But, this is what happens when you address the guard position in 2009 by a recruiting class that consists of Martavious Irving and Nick Russell and in 2010 with Juevol Myles and Will Spradling and I guess Shane Southwell (who isn't a guard) and then proceed to run two of the four off.  Then in 2011 mix in a JUCO guard that sits on the bench.

We've seen this coming.

True, its not a complete surprise.

I think its more missing out than the Franking though, its not like we've Franked a lot of guys that you can say would've been able to compete with Angel. I mean the best option at PG that was run was probably Myles? Russell?

Yeah, it's more of a not being a being able to recruit a point guard problem.  

Although, had he not been Franked, I believe Nick would have given some decent minutes this year especially with Jeremy Jones' mystery injury.

[Underdog Wildcat]

idiots that can't realize that angel isn't to blame for our offense being completely broken, and instead is actually the one option frank has to help fix it.

Whose fault is this?

This didn't have to be Angel's team YET, a tough situation 3 years in the making.

It's the fault of Jio Fontan and Mike Rosario.

DJO played JC ball 2 hrs down the road from MHK, we didn't even bat an eye towards him, it's not the specific players we missed on, it's the actual roster needs and potential holes that need be better identified and addressed.

Not 1 above average B12 guard on this roster and it killed us last night and it's a big reason why we've run into some struggles.

[fr@ck me]

Angel is really good. He played poorly against KU, but he's the best we have and that's not really a bad thing.

it's much easier for them to look at the problems with our offense and attempt to diagnose the issues and then place blame on a single individual (angel) without looking at and understanding the big picture.  it's a simple and emotional response.

angel did some good and bad things last night. 

ultimately, this team, with angel, was in a position at the end that they could have won a game last night.  things didn't go our way but there's no reason to hang the freshman because of it.   and dipshits that want to need to be put in their place.

That's why I blamed frank.  We won't be any better next year either since we didn't land a guard this year. 

[kso_FAN]

Although, had he not been Franked, I believe Nick would have given some decent minutes this year especially with Jeremy Jones' mystery injury.

Jones broke a bone in his ankle. They X-rayed it 3 times, but didn't fine it until they did an MRI. Before Texas, Frank said it would be another 7-10 days until he could play.

[kso_FAN]

That's why I blamed frank.  We won't be any better next year either since we didn't land a guard this year. 

Fair enough, but you don't think any of our guards will get better? Blame Frank for Franking, but guys he keeps around tend to get better.

[EMAW SP8]

FWIW, I agree Tay should've played more, but instead of Southwell, not Angel. No reason for Southy's 17 minutes given what he gave us last night.

Thank you, Angel had a down night. But he was our best option.

The Straw can pass, and occasionally create, but seemed inept last night. Could have atleast given 'tay a chance during the second half 

[AbeFroman]

Angel should have been benched the 2nd half. No, he doesn't suck, but he was crap last night and you gotta go with what is working, and he wasn't working. He as just tossing up volleyball serves to Whithey. Our bigs were doing good last night, JO, Gip, Jamar, and yet we kept letting Angel and Sprads take crap.

[michigancat]

idiots that can't realize that angel isn't to blame for our offense being completely broken, and instead is actually the one option frank has to help fix it.

Whose fault is this?

This didn't have to be Angel's team YET, a tough situation 3 years in the making.

It's the fault of Jio Fontan and Mike Rosario.

DJO played JC ball 2 hrs down the road from MHK, we didn't even bat an eye towards him, it's not the specific players we missed on, it's the actual roster needs and potential holes that need be better identified and addressed.

I thought we looked at DJO. I agree that Frank should have managed the guard situation better.

[michigancat]

Angel should have been benched the 2nd half. No, he doesn't suck, but he was crap last night and you gotta go with what is working, and he wasn't working. He as just tossing up volleyball serves to Whithey. Our bigs were doing good last night, JO, Gip, Jamar, and yet we kept letting Angel and Sprads take crap.

He wasn't bad in the second half at all. Get over the Bob Knight pass to JO. Agree he was awful in the first half, and him sittng on the bench so much was a big part of why our first half offense was about half as efficient as the second.

[Rage Against the McKee]

idiots that can't realize that angel isn't to blame for our offense being completely broken, and instead is actually the one option frank has to help fix it.

Whose fault is this?

This didn't have to be Angel's team YET, a tough situation 3 years in the making.

Good question. This line up just isn't built to have a PG like Will, but I don't think Frank's teams in general are either. We've talked plenty about Frank's multi combo guard system, but with a primary ball handler who can get to the rim. Ultimately I suppose you have to say recruiting is to blame because it's clear that Angel is the best we have available.

This absolutely is a recruiting issue and inadequately adressing the guard position in the previous two classes is the real culprit. 

Angel will hopefully get better but the burden should not all be on his shoulders.

But, this is what happens when you address the guard position in 2009 by a recruiting class that consists of Martavious Irving and Nick Russell and in 2010 with Juevol Myles and Will Spradling and I guess Shane Southwell (who isn't a guard) and then proceed to run two of the four off.  Then in 2011 mix in a JUCO guard that sits on the bench.

We've seen this coming.

True, its not a complete surprise.

I think its more missing out than the Franking though, its not like we've Franked a lot of guys that you can say would've been able to compete with Angel. I mean the best option at PG that was run was probably Myles? Russell?

Yeah, it's more of a not being a being able to recruit a point guard problem.  

Although, had he not been Franked, I believe Nick would have given some decent minutes this year especially with Jeremy Jones' mystery injury.

When we are starting a freshman at point guard and a senior and junior at the posts, it makes sense to address the post first. Angel will be much better next season and Spradling will only be a junior. Complain when Frank doesn't recruit a guard in 2013.

[Underdog Wildcat]

idiots that can't realize that angel isn't to blame for our offense being completely broken, and instead is actually the one option frank has to help fix it.

Whose fault is this?

This didn't have to be Angel's team YET, a tough situation 3 years in the making.

It's the fault of Jio Fontan and Mike Rosario.

DJO played JC ball 2 hrs down the road from MHK, we didn't even bat an eye towards him, it's not the specific players we missed on, it's the actual roster needs and potential holes that need be better identified and addressed.

I thought we looked at DJO. I agree that Frank should have managed the guard situation better.

Living in the cosmopolitan jewel of SCK known as Hutch for the last several years, I had the opportunity to watch DJO play ball here, and while by no means would I call myself a scouting expert, it was pretty evident he could play at a high level.

I paid fairly close attention to his recruitment, and while it's not impossible that KSU contacted him, I don't remember seeing or hearing anything about that. Pasted below was probably the most informative update on his recruitment, prior to his Marquette commitment.


1/22/09 update:
Because of his impressive play on the court, Johnson-Odom has emerged as one of the most heavily recruited prospects in the junior college ranks. Kansas isn't the only high-major program to stop by Hutchinson Community College this season, and they won't be the last."

"Pittsburgh has been by to see me this season," he said. "Tennessee has also been by to watch me play. Kentucky, Providence, Western Kentucky, Cincinnati, West Virginia and Virginia Tech are all interested in me. I have a real good relationship with Coach Seth Greenberg from Virginia Tech."

http://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=903464

[kso_FAN]

Angel should have been benched the 2nd half. No, he doesn't suck, but he was crap last night and you gotta go with what is working, and he wasn't working. He as just tossing up volleyball serves to Whithey. Our bigs were doing good last night, JO, Gip, Jamar, and yet we kept letting Angel and Sprads take crap.

Again, if this was the option, who plays?

In the first half every time Angel had a string of mistakes, he was benched. In the 2nd half he played better. Plus, all of his turnovers were attacking, trying to make a play. Frank has said over and over the ones he hates are the careless, lackadaisical ones. Angel had very few of those, every time he did he came out and Frank was all over him. but as the game went along and Frank saw how stagnant our offense was without him, he got Angel back in the game. And besides missing shots, he was mostly working in the 2nd half.

And I can't complain about our shots. Only 28% of our shot attempts were 3s, below Frank's typical distribution of 31-32% of shot attempts coming from 3.

[steve dave]

when angel out manned Thomas Robinson for the jump ball and then Thomas Robinson acted all hurt for a bit like Angel was too rough with him I smiled ear to ear.

[AbeFroman]

Angel should have been benched the 2nd half. No, he doesn't suck, but he was crap last night and you gotta go with what is working, and he wasn't working. He as just tossing up volleyball serves to Whithey. Our bigs were doing good last night, JO, Gip, Jamar, and yet we kept letting Angel and Sprads take crap.

Again, if this was the option, who plays?

Irving got what, 5 minutes last night?

[Rage Against the McKee]

Angel should have been benched the 2nd half. No, he doesn't suck, but he was crap last night and you gotta go with what is working, and he wasn't working. He as just tossing up volleyball serves to Whithey. Our bigs were doing good last night, JO, Gip, Jamar, and yet we kept letting Angel and Sprads take crap.

Again, if this was the option, who plays?

Irving got what, 5 minutes last night?

What did you see in those 5 minutes that made you think we were going to come back and win if only Angel would have stayed on the bench?

[kso_FAN]

Angel should have been benched the 2nd half. No, he doesn't suck, but he was crap last night and you gotta go with what is working, and he wasn't working. He as just tossing up volleyball serves to Whithey. Our bigs were doing good last night, JO, Gip, Jamar, and yet we kept letting Angel and Sprads take crap.

Again, if this was the option, who plays?

Irving got what, 5 minutes last night?

Irving at PG? Or Irving at 2 with Will at PG? I don't like either.

FWIW, I would've liked to see Irving more too, but in Southwell's minutes. The 4 to 17 minute distribution between them made the least sense to me of anyone's playing time, especially since Irving played solid against KU in Lawrence.

[bigwillie20]

when angel out manned Thomas Robinson for the jump ball and then Thomas Robinson acted all hurt for a bit like Angel was too rough with him I smiled ear to ear.

 

[steve dave]

when angel out manned Thomas Robinson for the jump ball and then Thomas Robinson acted all hurt for a bit like Angel was too rough with him I smiled ear to ear.

 

Yes, OMG YES 

[steve dave]

also:

Jamar Samuels: +5
Martvious Irving: +2
Angel Rodriguez: +1
Will Spradling: 0
Jordan Henriquez: -1
Victor Ojeleye: -2
Rodney McGruder: -4
Adrian Diaz: -6
Thomas Gipson: -8
Shane Southwell: -17

[michigancat]

also:

Jamar Samuels: +5
Martvious Irving: +2
Angel Rodriguez: +1
Will Spradling: 0
Jordan Henriquez: -1
Victor Ojeleye: -2
Rodney McGruder: -4
Adrian Diaz: -6
Thomas Gipson: -8
Shane Southwell: -17

Jordan Henriquez-Roberts: Name too long to be counted

[Dugout DickStone]

No, he created opportunities turnover after turnover after turnover after turnover after turnover after turnover after turnover after turnover.

Fixed it for you.

We didn't have a better option.  Not sure why this is confusing.   

eff this.  Angel is playing because he is our future, not because he played better than someone else could have.  Figure it the eff out.  he was rough ridin' horrible tonight and to defend him is ludicrous.  Frank was furious with his play, but it's growing pains.  I just wish he would rough ridin' learn from his mistakes instead of doing the same crap over and over and rough ridin' over.

This is what I think.  Frank wants a dependable pg for at least 2 years.  The marginal difference between ART and Tay or someone else isn't worth the seasoning Frank thinks his pg is getting.

[wabash909]

When we are starting a freshman at point guard and a senior and junior at the posts, it makes sense to address the post first. Angel will be much better next season and Spradling will only be a junior. Complain when Frank doesn't recruit a guard in 2013.

I'm confused.  What does recruiting a PG in 2013 that have to do with not recruiting a high impact point guard in the last two classes?

Notice that the the top three teams in the Big XII all have upperclassmen at the point.  It's not a coincidence.

This isn't about Angel.  This is about recruiting failures and roster management having forced us into relying solely on a true freshman when we shouldn't be.

[SkinnyBenny]

This isn't about Angel.  This is about recruiting failures and roster management having forced us into relying solely on a true freshman when we shouldn't be.

(But it's also kinda about Angel.)