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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Jerome Tang Coaches Kansas State Basketball => Topic started by: smith1051 on February 13, 2012, 08:27:36 PM

Title: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: smith1051 on February 13, 2012, 08:27:36 PM
getting worked by Tyshawn
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: CatsFan_58 on February 13, 2012, 08:48:50 PM
yeah. it is a little embarrassing. so many to's
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Mels Fish Bowl on February 13, 2012, 08:49:05 PM
Do not remember Whitey being this good of a player.  :ohno:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: SdK on February 13, 2012, 08:54:25 PM
Come on Angel!!!!! I'm tired of watching Will pass up open looks because he's a pussy. Get in there and stop turning the ball over!!!  :ksu:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: SkinnyBenny on February 13, 2012, 08:55:11 PM
Angel is rough ridin' terrible today. Terrible. That dude better not see the floor in the second half.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Pendergast on February 13, 2012, 08:59:43 PM
He's the only one attacking deep in the lane at all.  Also, any of those steals could have been called a reach/hand check.  Unlucky to not get a call on any of them.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: pissclams on February 13, 2012, 09:02:08 PM
yup, pretty crazy that a true freshman would struggle against a senior with taylor's experience.  shocker. thanks for the great thread guys.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: smith1051 on February 13, 2012, 09:02:58 PM
Not like he hasn't played against KU before
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: SkinnyBenny on February 13, 2012, 09:04:02 PM
yup, pretty crazy that a true freshman would struggle against a senior with taylor's experience.  shocker. thanks for the great thread guys.

Who gives a crap? He's sucking and he's rough ridin' killing us. Playing ANYBODY else would have, at worst, the exact same offensive result.

Turn it around in the second half, Angel!   :ksu:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Mels Fish Bowl on February 13, 2012, 09:08:19 PM
For as much pub as he gets, Robinson is a mediocre defender.

Angel Rod seemed to be getting sped up by ku's guards.

Holly Rowe is sure putting on the LBs.  Getting in game shape for the big one?
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: SkinnyBenny on February 13, 2012, 09:09:15 PM
Holly Rowe is sure putting on the LBs.  Getting in game shape for the big one?

Her voice tonight is  :sdeek:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: SkinnyBenny on February 13, 2012, 09:44:06 PM
Angel is rough ridin' killing us with turnovers. He might even have more turnovers than KU has alley-oops.
Title: Re: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: 8manpick on February 13, 2012, 09:51:36 PM
I am long term #teamangel, but my god he has ben bad tonight
Title: Re: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Mels Fish Bowl on February 13, 2012, 09:58:59 PM
I am long term #teamangel, but my god he has ben bad tonight
He's not getting a lot of rotate help on defense when Taylor drives past.  Then again Taylor has done that to a lot of Big 12 defenses this season.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: smith1051 on February 13, 2012, 10:06:31 PM
Big charge taken there Angel   :excited:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: BackPayne on February 13, 2012, 10:13:57 PM
Mother fracker!
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: PowercatPat on February 13, 2012, 10:15:58 PM
Good game Angel.

 :flush:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: SdK on February 13, 2012, 10:16:20 PM
eff this. We blow two layups at the end. Refs gave KU 5 points. eff this. eff this. eff this.



Jamar  :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 13, 2012, 10:17:03 PM
Angel's defense was really good.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: smith1051 on February 13, 2012, 10:17:36 PM
0-8 from the field and 7 TOs   :chainsaw:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: SdK on February 13, 2012, 10:19:19 PM
0-8 from the field and 7 TOs   :chainsaw:


Why did Frank keep putting him back in there? I don't understand that.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Fuktard on February 13, 2012, 10:19:27 PM
angel abosultely rough ridin' putrid tonight.  no way we can rough ridin' win with pg play like that....rough ridin' horrible. horrible. rough ridin' horrible.  he might well be our future, but the present rough ridin' sucks ass
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Pendergast on February 13, 2012, 10:19:33 PM
Feel like he watches Rondo too much.  Needs to watch Derek Fisher.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: theswo on February 13, 2012, 10:20:43 PM
Other than Rusty and Clams (and Pendergast), I hope everyone that posted in this thread dies.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: smith1051 on February 13, 2012, 10:20:56 PM
0-8 from the field and 7 TOs   :chainsaw:


Why did Frank keep putting him back in there? I don't understand that.

I guess nobody else to try.  'Tay sure didn't get a chance.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Pendergast on February 13, 2012, 10:21:32 PM
Other than Rusty and Clams, I hope everyone that posted in this thread dies.

eff off asshat.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: BackPayne on February 13, 2012, 10:22:20 PM
Other than Rusty and Clams, I hope everyone that posted in this thread dies.

It still wouldn't make Angel any better.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 13, 2012, 10:22:58 PM
Tay did get a chance. And was worse than Angel. Angel played good defense and wasn't taking any crap out there. And against elite defensive teams, you just have to put the ball on the floor to create offense at times. Angel is the only one on the team that can do that.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: OregonSmock on February 13, 2012, 10:23:38 PM
I love Angel Rodriguez.  Hopefully he sticks around for a few more years.  TSC!


 :tsc:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Pendergast on February 13, 2012, 10:23:46 PM
Tay did get a chance. And was worse than Angel. Angel played good defense and wasn't taking any crap out there. And against elite defensive teams, you just have to put the ball on the floor to create offense at times. Angel is the only one on the team that can do that.

This guy over here.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: theswo on February 13, 2012, 10:24:06 PM
Other than Rusty and Clams (and Pendergast), I hope everyone that posted in this thread dies.

eff off asshat.
Fixed
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: SdK on February 13, 2012, 10:24:08 PM
Tay did get a chance. And was worse than Angel. Angel played good defense and wasn't taking any crap out there. And against elite defensive teams, you just have to put the ball on the floor to create offense at times. Angel is the only one on the team that can do that.

Ok. I'll take that. If he could have passed to JO instead of getting his crap smacked, I could forgive his whole performance.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: smith1051 on February 13, 2012, 10:24:26 PM
Tay did get a chance. And was worse than Angel. Angel played good defense and wasn't taking any crap out there. And against elite defensive teams, you just have to put the ball on the floor to create offense at times. Angel is the only one on the team that can do that.

How many minutes did he get?

EDIT: ESPN just updated it to 4 minutes.  Not sure how that is a chance. 
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Pendergast on February 13, 2012, 10:24:55 PM
Other than Rusty and Clams (and Pendergast), I hope everyone that posted in this thread dies.

eff off asshat.
Fixed

Friends again.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Fuktard on February 13, 2012, 10:25:29 PM
Tay did get a chance. And was worse than Angel. Angel played good defense and wasn't taking any crap out there. And against elite defensive teams, you just have to put the ball on the floor to create offense at times. Angel is the only one on the team that can do that.

you mean Angel is the only one that TRIES to do it.  He didn't do it tonight.  he didn't create crap other than turnovers.  As i've said, it's painful because i know he's our future but eff i wish he'd learn from his mistakes instead of doing the same stupid crap over and rough ridin' over.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: theKSU on February 13, 2012, 10:26:53 PM
Frank is going to use this game against Angel when he threatens to transfer.  
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Pendergast on February 13, 2012, 10:27:24 PM
Tay did get a chance. And was worse than Angel. Angel played good defense and wasn't taking any crap out there. And against elite defensive teams, you just have to put the ball on the floor to create offense at times. Angel is the only one on the team that can do that.

you mean Angel is the only one that TRIES to do it.  He didn't do it tonight.  he didn't create crap other than turnovers.  As i've said, it's painful because i know he's our future but eff i wish he'd learn from his mistakes instead of doing the same stupid crap over and rough ridin' over.

No, he created opportunities, he just didn't capitalize.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Sandstone Outcropping on February 13, 2012, 10:27:34 PM
#teamangel. I love how hard he can dribble. Just stands out there and furiously pounds it against the old hardwood. Amazing.

:love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: SkinnyBenny on February 13, 2012, 10:28:00 PM
It's unbelievable. Why the eff did Frank play him all game?


PLAY TAY. PLAY ANYONE. PLAY ANYONE IN THIS GAME EXCEPT FOR ANGEL FOR 35 MINUTES.

Is he blowing Frank or something? I mean, WTF could be an excuse to play someone for so long when they are doing SO BAD offensively?  He played pretty good D, I admit. But the amount of potential points he took away from K-State and subsequently gave to KU could not possibly have made it worth it.  


0-8 on field goals.
0-4 on 3-pointers.
2 rebounds.
5 assists.
3 fouls.
SEVEN TURNOVERS. (And that's probably not even counting all the times his dumbass tried to drive into the lane against seven footers, who promptly stuffed his ass every rough ridin' time.)

Seriously. I wanna hear Frank's excuse for why the eff he kept playing that piece of crap. He rough ridin' sucked tonight. I'm usually #teamangel too, but this was rough ridin' inexcusable.  There are two possible explanations for why Frank kept playing him all. rough ridin'. game.:
A)  Angel is giving Frank blowies.
B)  Frank is pissed at Angel for something or other and he wanted to make him looks stupid on national TV for two hours straight.  


Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Pendergast on February 13, 2012, 10:29:34 PM
Played great defense tonight.  So much better at staying in front since his first game.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 13, 2012, 10:29:57 PM
As soon as he learns when to dump-off-pass, he will be unstoppable. He's going to have a better career than anybody else on the team, and that's saying quite a bit considering what I expect out of McGruder next year.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: EllToPay on February 13, 2012, 10:30:10 PM
What's the score if Tay plays Angels minutes?
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Pendergast on February 13, 2012, 10:31:19 PM
What's the score if Tay plays Angels minutes?

What if it rained skittles?
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: SkinnyBenny on February 13, 2012, 10:32:18 PM

No, he created opportunities turnover after turnover after turnover after turnover after turnover after turnover after turnover after turnover.

Fixed it for you.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 13, 2012, 10:32:45 PM
What's the score if Tay plays Angels minutes?

68-58 KU
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Pendergast on February 13, 2012, 10:33:29 PM

No, he created opportunities turnover after turnover after turnover after turnover after turnover after turnover after turnover after turnover.

Fixed it for you.

We didn't have a better option.  Not sure why this is confusing.   :dunno:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: EMAWzified on February 13, 2012, 10:33:35 PM
His worst turnovers had nothing to do with putting the ball on the floor. They came from trying to make passes that weren't there. He's got to learn to value the ball more.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 13, 2012, 10:33:49 PM
What's the score if Tay plays Angels minutes?

68-58 KU

but fewer mistakes! :ksu:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: smith1051 on February 13, 2012, 10:33:59 PM
What's the score if Tay plays Angels minutes?

What if it rained skittles?

Marshawn Lynch would be happy
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 13, 2012, 10:34:21 PM
also, I think raining skittles would be painful. LIke Tay taking minutes away from Angel.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: theswo on February 13, 2012, 10:34:35 PM
He was awful tonight, but still, he had 5 assists, and played good defense. It's not his fault that we haven't landed a guard that can penetrate since Frank took over as head coach.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 13, 2012, 10:35:04 PM
I would have like to see Tay take more of Spradling's minutes, honestly. When he's not hitting shots and taking charges, he's pretty worthless. I think he just needs more confidence, but it's hard to gain confidence when you are afraid to take open shots.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: theswo on February 13, 2012, 10:35:17 PM

No, he created opportunities turnover after turnover after turnover after turnover after turnover after turnover after turnover after turnover.

Fixed it for you.

We didn't have a better option.  Not sure why this is confusing.   :dunno:
THIS
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Testy Westy on February 13, 2012, 10:35:30 PM

A)  Angel is giving Frank blowies.
B)  Frank is pissed at Angel for something or other and he wanted to make him looks stupid on national TV for two hours straight.  


what if it's both and they're related?  :surprised:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: SkinnyBenny on February 13, 2012, 10:35:52 PM
Anyone who tries to claim that Angel was anything close to as beneficial to our team as he was costly tonight is a rough ridin' stubborn idiot.  He was rough ridin' terrible. Terrible.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: bigwillie20 on February 13, 2012, 10:36:18 PM
I love Angel Rodriguez.  Hopefully he sticks around for a few more years.  TSC!


 :tsc:

Yeah his O was absolute  :flush: tonight.  Thoughts on his defense?  Thought he did ok but haven't watched to many ku games to compare with
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: smith1051 on February 13, 2012, 10:36:25 PM

A)  Angel is giving Frank blowies.
B)  Frank is pissed at Angel for something or other and he wanted to make him looks stupid on national TV for two hours straight.  


what if it's both and they're related?  :surprised:

Too much teeth
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 13, 2012, 10:36:37 PM
spradling's ridiculous floater was the definition of nifty.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Fuktard on February 13, 2012, 10:36:44 PM

No, he created opportunities turnover after turnover after turnover after turnover after turnover after turnover after turnover after turnover.

Fixed it for you.

We didn't have a better option.  Not sure why this is confusing.   :dunno:

eff this.  Angel is playing because he is our future, not because he played better than someone else could have.  Figure it the eff out.  he was rough ridin' horrible tonight and to defend him is ludicrous.  Frank was furious with his play, but it's growing pains.  I just wish he would rough ridin' learn from his mistakes instead of doing the same crap over and over and rough ridin' over.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 13, 2012, 10:37:04 PM
What's the score if Tay plays Angels minutes?

68-58 KU

but fewer mistakes! :ksu:

There would have been more mistakes, but far fewer mistakes that the tards on this board would be aware of.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: OregonSmock on February 13, 2012, 10:37:28 PM
I love Angel Rodriguez.  Hopefully he sticks around for a few more years.  TSC!


 :tsc:

Yeah his O was absolute  :flush: tonight.  Thoughts on his defense?  Thought he did ok but haven't watched to many ku games to compare with



Only gave up 20 points to Tyshawn.  


 :love:  :love:  :love:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Pendergast on February 13, 2012, 10:38:14 PM

No, he created opportunities turnover after turnover after turnover after turnover after turnover after turnover after turnover after turnover.

Fixed it for you.

We didn't have a better option.  Not sure why this is confusing.   :dunno:

eff this.  Angel is playing because he is our future, not because he played better than someone else could have.  Figure it the eff out.  he was rough ridin' horrible tonight and to defend him is ludicrous.  Frank was furious with his play, but it's growing pains.  I just wish he would rough ridin' learn from his mistakes instead of doing the same crap over and over and rough ridin' over.

Disagree friend.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kso_FAN on February 13, 2012, 10:38:58 PM
We have to have Angel playing well to win. We aren't going to win with Will at PG and Tay at the 2. We just aren't. We also aren't going to win if Angel plays like he did tonight, but we are no worse than with the other combo because teams have to respect Angel off the dribble.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 13, 2012, 10:39:30 PM
spradling's ridiculous floater was the definition of nifty.

He's great when he has no other option than to take the shot, I agree. I just wish he were more aggressive.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: EMAWzified on February 13, 2012, 10:39:55 PM
Freshmen point guards.
When was the last time KU started a freshman at point? Miles, I'd guess.
Recruiting misses at guard is killing us. Really wish we had a shooting guard coming in.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Pendergast on February 13, 2012, 10:40:06 PM
I love Angel Rodriguez.  Hopefully he sticks around for a few more years.  TSC!


 :tsc:

Yeah his O was absolute  :flush: tonight.  Thoughts on his defense?  Thought he did ok but haven't watched to many ku games to compare with



Only gave up 20 points to Tyshawn.  


 :love:  :love:  :love:

Beems, don't need jedi mind tricks in Angel argument threads.   :shakesfist:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 13, 2012, 10:40:20 PM

No, he created opportunities turnover after turnover after turnover after turnover after turnover after turnover after turnover after turnover.

Fixed it for you.

We didn't have a better option.  Not sure why this is confusing.   :dunno:

eff this.  Angel is playing because he is our future, not because he played better than someone else could have.  Figure it the eff out.  he was rough ridin' horrible tonight and to defend him is ludicrous.  Frank was furious with his play, but it's growing pains.  I just wish he would rough ridin' learn from his mistakes instead of doing the same crap over and over and rough ridin' over.

There may have been fewer turnovers but I don't think the net result would have been better with Tay or Shane taking minutes from Angel. It's like Self isn't going to sit Tyshawn for the random PG after Elijah Johnson just because he has 10 turnovers against MU.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: SkinnyBenny on February 13, 2012, 10:40:47 PM
eff this.  Angel is playing because he is our future, not because he played better than someone else could have.  Figure it the eff out.  he was rough ridin' horrible tonight and to defend him is ludicrous.  Frank was furious with his play, but it's growing pains.  I just wish he would rough ridin' learn from his mistakes instead of doing the same crap over and over and rough ridin' over.

I get the "he's our future" point, and it might be worthwhile to leave him in in a game of less importance. But really, if the point is to develop him, why the eff would he embarrass him for two hours straight like that? It's going to kill his psyche next year when he plays KU.  Leaving him in to embarrass himself all night, in my opinion, makes it more likely that he'll suck again next year vs. KU because of a damaged psyche than that he'll come out and kick ass because he's got more experience.  
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: smith1051 on February 13, 2012, 10:41:13 PM
Spradling looks scared out there.  I so want him to be our white guy that goes off on other teams.  Seems to happen to us all of the time.  When is the last time we had one?
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: CHONGS on February 13, 2012, 10:41:54 PM
eff this.  Angel is playing because he is our future, not because he played better than someone else could have.  Figure it the eff out.  he was rough ridin' horrible tonight and to defend him is ludicrous.  Frank was furious with his play, but it's growing pains.  I just wish he would rough ridin' learn from his mistakes instead of doing the same crap over and over and rough ridin' over.

I get the "he's our future" point, and it might be worthwhile to leave him in in a game of less importance. But really, if the point is to develop him, why the eff would he embarrass him for two hours straight like that? It's going to kill his psyche next year when he plays KU.  Leaving him in to embarrass himself all night, in my opinion, makes it more likely that he'll suck again next year vs. KU because of a damaged psyche than that he'll come out and kick ass because he's got more experience.  
that's the stupidest thing i have ever read
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 13, 2012, 10:42:12 PM
eff this.  Angel is playing because he is our future, not because he played better than someone else could have.  Figure it the eff out.  he was rough ridin' horrible tonight and to defend him is ludicrous.  Frank was furious with his play, but it's growing pains.  I just wish he would rough ridin' learn from his mistakes instead of doing the same crap over and over and rough ridin' over.

I get the "he's our future" point, and it might be worthwhile to leave him in in a game of less importance. But really, if the point is to develop him, why the eff would he embarrass him for two hours straight like that? It's going to kill his psyche next year when he plays KU.  Leaving him in to embarrass himself all night, in my opinion, makes it more likely that he'll suck again next year vs. KU because of a damaged psyche than that he'll come out and kick ass because he's got more experience. 

Did you see him throw Thomas Robinson around? That kid isn't going to be scared ever. Chingon said it better than I possibly could.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Fuktard on February 13, 2012, 10:42:25 PM

No, he created opportunities turnover after turnover after turnover after turnover after turnover after turnover after turnover after turnover.

Fixed it for you.

We didn't have a better option.  Not sure why this is confusing.   :dunno:

eff this.  Angel is playing because he is our future, not because he played better than someone else could have.  Figure it the eff out.  he was rough ridin' horrible tonight and to defend him is ludicrous.  Frank was furious with his play, but it's growing pains.  I just wish he would rough ridin' learn from his mistakes instead of doing the same crap over and over and rough ridin' over.

There may have been fewer turnovers but I don't think the net result would have been better with Tay or Shane taking minutes from Angel. It's like Self isn't going to sit Tyshawn for the random PG after Elijah Johnson just because he has 10 turnovers against MU.

I'm not disagreeing.  We likely wouldn't have won but who knows.  His play was awful.  we can't win with pg play like that....won't happen.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: bigwillie20 on February 13, 2012, 10:42:57 PM
I love Angel Rodriguez.  Hopefully he sticks around for a few more years.  TSC!


 :tsc:

Yeah his O was absolute  :flush: tonight.  Thoughts on his defense?  Thought he did ok but haven't watched to many ku games to compare with



Only gave up 20 points to Tyshawn.  


 :love:  :love:  :love:

Beems, don't need jedi mind tricks in Angel argument threads.   :shakesfist:

Yeah, no doubt.  Was just wanting an opposing teams perspective  :dunno:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Pendergast on February 13, 2012, 10:43:20 PM
eff this.  Angel is playing because he is our future, not because he played better than someone else could have.  Figure it the eff out.  he was rough ridin' horrible tonight and to defend him is ludicrous.  Frank was furious with his play, but it's growing pains.  I just wish he would rough ridin' learn from his mistakes instead of doing the same crap over and over and rough ridin' over.

I get the "he's our future" point, and it might be worthwhile to leave him in in a game of less importance. But really, if the point is to develop him, why the eff would he embarrass him for two hours straight like that? It's going to kill his psyche next year when he plays KU.  Leaving him in to embarrass himself all night, in my opinion, makes it more likely that he'll suck again next year vs. KU because of a damaged psyche than that he'll come out and kick ass because he's got more experience.  

What? The? eff?  Angel was aggressive and pissed all game.  Kill his psyche?  No sir.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 13, 2012, 10:44:09 PM
eff this.  Angel is playing because he is our future, not because he played better than someone else could have.  Figure it the eff out.  he was rough ridin' horrible tonight and to defend him is ludicrous.  Frank was furious with his play, but it's growing pains.  I just wish he would rough ridin' learn from his mistakes instead of doing the same crap over and over and rough ridin' over.

I get the "he's our future" point, and it might be worthwhile to leave him in in a game of less importance. But really, if the point is to develop him, why the eff would he embarrass him for two hours straight like that? It's going to kill his psyche next year when he plays KU.  Leaving him in to embarrass himself all night, in my opinion, makes it more likely that he'll suck again next year vs. KU because of a damaged psyche than that he'll come out and kick ass because he's got more experience.  

The only people who ever worry or should worry about bullshit like that are the parents of 8-10 year olds.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: SkinnyBenny on February 13, 2012, 10:45:11 PM
that's the stupidest thing i have ever read

maybe :dunno:

Quote from: Pendergast
What? The? eff?  Angel was aggressive and pissed all game.  Kill his psyche?  No sir.

How'd that work out for him?  (rough ridin' awful on offense is the answer, btw.)
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Cartierfor3 on February 13, 2012, 10:46:34 PM
He will be all conference his junior year.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: WillieWatanabe on February 13, 2012, 10:46:39 PM
freshmen. live and learn.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: SkinnyBenny on February 13, 2012, 10:46:47 PM
The only people who ever worry or should worry about bullshit like that are the parents of 8-10 year olds.

Yes.  Should.  But we are K-State.  There's a reason every rough ridin' game at Allen Fieldhouse plays out the exact same way.  We are not immune to psychological damage.  :sdeek:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Fuktard on February 13, 2012, 10:47:01 PM

No, he created opportunities turnover after turnover after turnover after turnover after turnover after turnover after turnover after turnover.

Fixed it for you.

We didn't have a better option.  Not sure why this is confusing.   :dunno:

eff this.  Angel is playing because he is our future, not because he played better than someone else could have.  Figure it the eff out.  he was rough ridin' horrible tonight and to defend him is ludicrous.  Frank was furious with his play, but it's growing pains.  I just wish he would rough ridin' learn from his mistakes instead of doing the same crap over and over and rough ridin' over.

There may have been fewer turnovers but I don't think the net result would have been better with Tay or Shane taking minutes from Angel. It's like Self isn't going to sit Tyshawn for the random PG after Elijah Johnson just because he has 10 turnovers against MU.

I will say this....if our pg would have had 7 assists, 3 turnovers and 6 points, we would have won this game.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Pendergast on February 13, 2012, 10:47:27 PM
that's the stupidest thing i have ever read

maybe :dunno:

Quote from: Pendergast
What? The? eff?  Angel was aggressive and pissed all game.  Kill his psyche?  No sir.

How'd that work out for him?  (rough ridin' awful on offense is the answer, btw.)

Woooooh nelly.  Let me get turned around here, I've got to catch up with your misdirection.  Weren't we talking about the effect of this game on the future?  Future?  Fuuuutttttuuuurreeee????
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 13, 2012, 10:47:33 PM
I'm not disagreeing.  We likely wouldn't have won but who knows.  His play was awful.  we can't win with pg play like that....won't happen.

Actually considering we only lost by 6 we could have very easily won w/ PG play like that.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Andy on February 13, 2012, 10:48:01 PM
Freshmen point guards.
When was the last time KU started a freshman at point? Miles, I'd guess.
Recruiting misses at guard is killing us. Really wish we had a shooting guard coming in.

A million times this.  Misses and running guys off the last few years have led to us having to count on a freshman pg. Its prob going to cost us the tourney.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: SkinnyBenny on February 13, 2012, 10:48:26 PM
Quote from: fuktard
I will say this....if our pg would have had 7 assists, 3 turnovers and 6 points, we would have won this game.

Exactly. And it's not too much to ask that your point guard score six points.

Or even one.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: CHONGS on February 13, 2012, 10:48:44 PM
If our pg had 28 pts 10 assists and 38 rb we would have won too
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: 8manpick on February 13, 2012, 10:48:52 PM
Was his defense that good?  He guarded Tyshawn a lot, and Tyshawn had a pretty solid line. :dunno:

It is reasonable to say that we need Angel to play well for us to be good, but I think it is unreasonable to leave him on the floor and have the offense running through him when he is playing so poorly on offense.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: SkinnyBenny on February 13, 2012, 10:49:50 PM
Was his defense that good?  He guarded Tyshawn a lot, and Tyshawn had a pretty solid line. :dunno:

It is reasonable to say that we need Angel to play well for us to be good, but I think it is unreasonable to leave him on the floor and have the offense running through him when he is playing so poorly on offense.

This.  Except that I would argue not that it's unreasonable, but that it's rough ridin' inexcusable coaching. 
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 13, 2012, 10:50:36 PM
Was his defense that good?  He guarded Tyshawn a lot, and Tyshawn had a pretty solid line. :dunno:

yeah, he was pretty good.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Fuktard on February 13, 2012, 10:50:55 PM
I'm not disagreeing.  We likely wouldn't have won but who knows.  His play was awful.  we can't win with pg play like that....won't happen.

Actually considering we only lost by 6 we could have very easily won w/ PG play like that.

Not sure I understand your argument....we DIDN"T win.  What am I missing?  
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: MakeItRain on February 13, 2012, 10:51:06 PM
What's the score if Tay plays Angels minutes?

Remember how we looked in the second half against UT and the first half tonight?  No one penetrating the defense, no one a threat to penetrate the defense, just passing the ball 25 feet out and then throwing up a shot and hope the huge get it.  We would have has 35 minutes of that.

Why aren't people asking about Tay playing Will's minutes, did I miss something about his game?
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Fuktard on February 13, 2012, 10:52:52 PM
If our pg had 28 pts 10 assists and 38 rb we would have won too

REALLY great retort.  Well thought out.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: MakeItRain on February 13, 2012, 10:53:16 PM
RT for truf
I would have like to see Tay take more of Spradling's minutes, honestly. When he's not hitting shots and taking charges, he's pretty worthless. I think he just needs more confidence, but it's hard to gain confidence when you are afraid to take open shots.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: EMAWmeister on February 13, 2012, 10:53:28 PM
We did a helluva job stopping Robinson, but Withey stepped up big and TT was too much for a freshman guard.  Meh.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Pendergast on February 13, 2012, 10:53:34 PM
Why aren't people asking about Tay playing Will's minutes, did I miss something about his game?

Will kept the team in the game from what I saw.  That's why, mostly.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: catzacker on February 13, 2012, 10:56:53 PM
His defense was not good.  Neither was his offense.  He sucked tonight and the angeltards who can't admit that are rough ridin' idiots.  He sucked.  He wasn't the only one, but he was the worst at a position we can't afford to be awful at.  Just because he rolled on the floor with NMT doesn't mean he is going to be a good point guard.  His decision making when he isn't driving the lane is entirely worse than pullen when he was a freshman.
Title: Re: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kitten_mittons on February 13, 2012, 10:57:16 PM
So people get mad saying the players are timid because frank will pull them, and when he lets them play through their mistakes, they get mad for not pulling him?
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: gatoveintisiete on February 13, 2012, 10:57:39 PM
JO was pretty good tonight, would have been even better if the guards would have dumped to him for more DOBS
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 13, 2012, 11:00:03 PM
His defense was not good.  Neither was his offense.  He sucked tonight and the angeltards who can't admit that are rough ridin' idiots.  He sucked.  He wasn't the only one, but he was the worst at a position we can't afford to be awful at.  Just because he rolled on the floor with NMT doesn't mean he is going to be a good point guard.  His decision making when he isn't driving the lane is entirely worse than pullen when he was a freshman.

He played a below average game offensively, and his below average game is better than anyone else's. I agree his decision making is worse than our all-time leading scorer who played with two NBA frontcourt players at the same point in their careers.

I'm not disagreeing.  We likely wouldn't have won but who knows.  His play was awful.  we can't win with pg play like that....won't happen.

Actually considering we only lost by 6 we could have very easily won w/ PG play like that.

Not sure I understand your argument....we DIDN"T win.  What am I missing? 

you said we can't. We can, even though we didn't. Not that hard.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: MakeItRain on February 13, 2012, 11:02:26 PM
eff this.  Angel is playing because he is our future, not because he played better than someone else could have.  Figure it the eff out.  he was rough ridin' horrible tonight and to defend him is ludicrous.  Frank was furious with his play, but it's growing pains.  I just wish he would rough ridin' learn from his mistakes instead of doing the same crap over and over and rough ridin' over.

I get the "he's our future" point, and it might be worthwhile to leave him in in a game of less importance. But really, if the point is to develop him, why the eff would he embarrass him for two hours straight like that? It's going to kill his psyche next year when he plays KU.  Leaving him in to embarrass himself all night, in my opinion, makes it more likely that he'll suck again next year vs. KU because of a damaged psyche than that he'll come out and kick ass because he's got more experience.  

The only people who ever worry or should worry about bullshit like that are the parents of 8-10 year olds.

My kid is 3 and I PI the crap out of her every chance I get so people won't worry about her psyche.  People like ar-t laugh at stupid crap like that.  Angel isn't the type of dude that would spend weeks whining over something like turf color.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: MakeItRain on February 13, 2012, 11:07:06 PM
Freshmen point guards.
When was the last time KU started a freshman at point? Miles, I'd guess.
Recruiting misses at guard is killing us. Really wish we had a shooting guard coming in.

A million times this.  Misses and running guys off the last few years have led to us having to count on a freshman pg. Its prob going to cost us the tourney.

Tyshawn Taylor started 33 games his freshman year.  Technically fat Sherron was the point guard.  Could you imagine how good Angel would be this year if he got to play next to Sherron instead of Will?
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: DQ12 on February 13, 2012, 11:09:06 PM
Angel played terribly tonight.  Growing pains.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Pendergast on February 13, 2012, 11:09:13 PM
Tyshawn Taylor started 33 games his freshman year.  Technically fat Sherron was the point guard.  Could you imagine how good Angel would be this year if he got to play next to Sherron instead of Will?

Why all the hate for Will?
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: catzacker on February 13, 2012, 11:10:06 PM
Rusty, you have to be rough ridin' stupid to think it was just below average.  It was rough ridin' awful.  Decision making has nothing to do with who you are playimg with.  Making a post entry bounce pass through 3 defenders is rough ridin' atupid no matter if it's going to jamar or beasley.  JFC if you idiots can't even admit angel was dogshit tonight.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: 8manpick on February 13, 2012, 11:11:25 PM
Angel played terribly tonight.  Growing pains.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: MakeItRain on February 13, 2012, 11:11:34 PM
Why aren't people asking about Tay playing Will's minutes, did I miss something about his game?

Will kept the team in the game from what I saw.  That's why, mostly.

You're getting mesmerized by two good plays.  Guard play offensively was awful, Will doesn't get exempted, he was 4-13 for gods sake.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 13, 2012, 11:13:18 PM
Rusty, you have to be rough ridin' stupid to think it was just below average.  It was rough ridin' awful.  Decision making has nothing to do with who you are playimg with.  Making a post entry bounce pass through 3 defenders is rough ridin' atupid no matter if it's going to jamar or beasley.  JFC if you idiots can't even admit angel was dogshit tonight.

call it dogshit or awful or whatever you want, but I still say it's better than any alternative. (his five assists and good defense kept it from being the worst game ever). And I know it may be hard to believe but a player like Beasley can make your passes look a lot better than a player like JO. I know part of decision making is knowing your teammates, but still. (and I still acknowledge Pullen was better)
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: MakeItRain on February 13, 2012, 11:15:24 PM
His defense was not good.  Neither was his offense.  He sucked tonight and the angeltards who can't admit that are rough ridin' idiots.  He sucked.  He wasn't the only one, but he was the worst at a position we can't afford to be awful at.  Just because he rolled on the floor with NMT doesn't mean he is going to be a good point guard.  His decision making when he isn't driving the lane is entirely worse than pullen when he was a freshman.

The team defensive effort was the best of the season.  Not sure how you can contend that a key cog of that performance was bad.  I can guarantee this will be KUs worst eFG game of the season.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Pendergast on February 13, 2012, 11:16:09 PM
Why aren't people asking about Tay playing Will's minutes, did I miss something about his game?

Will kept the team in the game from what I saw.  That's why, mostly.

You're getting mesmerized by two good plays.  Guard play offensively was awful, Will doesn't get exempted, he was 4-13 for gods sake.

4 assists and no turnovers.  Only steady play tonight.  Low percentage, but he was 0-5 from 3.  So 50% on his shots inside the arc.  He was the best guard, non-exempt or whatever.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: bigwillie20 on February 13, 2012, 11:17:49 PM
Tyshawn Taylor started 33 games his freshman year.  Technically fat Sherron was the point guard.  Could you imagine how good Angel would be this year if he got to play next to Sherron instead of Will?

Why all the hate for Will?

He wasn't great by any means but I loved the swag and big nutsack he came out with at the start of the 2nd half.  It's amazing what these guys could do if they played with that confidence 40 minutes a night, that's what makes this team so frustrating
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: MakeItRain on February 13, 2012, 11:18:14 PM
Tyshawn Taylor started 33 games his freshman year.  Technically fat Sherron was the point guard.  Could you imagine how good Angel would be this year if he got to play next to Sherron instead of Will?

Why all the hate for Will?

I hate Will because I think Angel would play better besides the college version of Sherron?
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 13, 2012, 11:19:16 PM
His defense was not good.  Neither was his offense.  He sucked tonight and the angeltards who can't admit that are rough ridin' idiots.  He sucked.  He wasn't the only one, but he was the worst at a position we can't afford to be awful at.  Just because he rolled on the floor with NMT doesn't mean he is going to be a good point guard.  His decision making when he isn't driving the lane is entirely worse than pullen when he was a freshman.

The team defensive effort was the best of the season.  Not sure how you can contend that a key cog of that performance was bad.  I can guarantee this will be KUs worst eFG game of the season.

Kentucky held them to 37.3% EFG. :eek:

We were second best at 43.4%.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Pendergast on February 13, 2012, 11:19:54 PM
Tyshawn Taylor started 33 games his freshman year.  Technically fat Sherron was the point guard.  Could you imagine how good Angel would be this year if he got to play next to Sherron instead of Will?

Why all the hate for Will?

I hate Will because I think Angel would play better besides the college version of Sherron?

Come on, you've gotten in a shot several times in the past few hours.  You really want to play this game?
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: gatoveintisiete on February 13, 2012, 11:22:59 PM
We have nobody better than Angel, so I like that he go baptized by fire.  I wish Frank would do this with other guys too, guys that could really be something.  Would love to see JO, Shane, Diaz, Russell, Jamar, Fred, Wally, Jones, Dpete, Sutton etc. be able to play through their mistakes and develop more confident offensive threats
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: MakeItRain on February 13, 2012, 11:23:07 PM
Why aren't people asking about Tay playing Will's minutes, did I miss something about his game?

Will kept the team in the game from what I saw.  That's why, mostly.

You're getting mesmerized by two good plays.  Guard play offensively was awful, Will doesn't get exempted, he was 4-13 for gods sake.

4 assists and no turnovers.  Only steady play tonight.  Low percentage, but he was 0-5 from 3.  So 50% on his shots inside the arc.  He was the best guard, non-exempt or whatever.

I refuse to give him a pass for his shooting percentage tonight and his continued lack of aggression.  Of those 4 assists 2 of them were passes to a wide open Jamar at the top of the key.  I will give him credit for being more aggressive late, but once again he was completely missing for a half+.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kso_FAN on February 13, 2012, 11:24:07 PM
Its pretty clear Frank thinks our best line-up is Angel, Will, Rod. He's been trying to go that way since the OU game in Norman, and only Angel's foul problems have kept him off the floor.

Tay and Southy get to fight for the scrap minutes between pretty much those three spots right now. Jones would likely be in the mix if he wasn't injured.

I have come to agree that this is the best possible line up to win games, not only for the future, but for this year. Teams have to defend us different with Angel in the game simply because he is a threat to penetrate. We have a hard enough time scoring anyway and its clear that any line-up with Will at PG and Tay/Southy/whoever at the 2 just makes it really hard to score, especially against a team as strong defensively as KU. Our only chance to win tonight was a good game (he didn't even have to be great) from Angel and we didn't get that. I do not think a Will at PG and Tay at 2G combo for 30 minutes would've been any better and would've likely been worse. JMHO.

Will had his fair share of struggles guarding Taylor, but it was when he was on the bench that Taylor hit both of his threes and helped KU go on their run that ultimately won them the game.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Pendergast on February 13, 2012, 11:25:45 PM
Why aren't people asking about Tay playing Will's minutes, did I miss something about his game?

Will kept the team in the game from what I saw.  That's why, mostly.

You're getting mesmerized by two good plays.  Guard play offensively was awful, Will doesn't get exempted, he was 4-13 for gods sake.

4 assists and no turnovers.  Only steady play tonight.  Low percentage, but he was 0-5 from 3.  So 50% on his shots inside the arc.  He was the best guard, non-exempt or whatever.

I refuse to give him a pass for his shooting percentage tonight and his continued lack of aggression.  Of those 4 assists 2 of them were passes to a wide open Jamar at the top of the key.  I will give him credit for being more aggressive late, but once again he was completely missing for a half+.

Fair enough.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: MakeItRain on February 13, 2012, 11:27:05 PM
Tyshawn Taylor started 33 games his freshman year.  Technically fat Sherron was the point guard.  Could you imagine how good Angel would be this year if he got to play next to Sherron instead of Will?

Why all the hate for Will?

I hate Will because I think Angel would play better besides the college version of Sherron?

Come on, you've gotten in a shot several times in the past few hours.  You really want to play this game?

Yeah, I want to play this game whatever the hell that means.  Will had a bad night offensively, that really can't be argued.  I have less of a problem with Will and more of a problem with the role he is forced to play with this team, a role he clearly is not comfortable with.  He sucked tonight, doesn't mean I don't like the guy.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: SkinnyBenny on February 13, 2012, 11:28:35 PM
We have a hard enough time scoring anyway and its clear that any line-up with Will at PG and Tay/Southy/whoever at the 2 just makes it really hard to score, especially against a team as strong defensively as KU. Our only chance to win tonight was a good game (he didn't even have to be great) from Angel and we didn't get that. I do not think a Will at PG and Tay at 2G combo for 30 minutes would've been any better and would've likely been worse. JMHO.

Ordinarily I would be inclined to agree with this if not for the fact that we only had 18 rough ridin' points in the first half. At home.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Pendergast on February 13, 2012, 11:29:24 PM
Tyshawn Taylor started 33 games his freshman year.  Technically fat Sherron was the point guard.  Could you imagine how good Angel would be this year if he got to play next to Sherron instead of Will?

Why all the hate for Will?

I hate Will because I think Angel would play better besides the college version of Sherron?

Come on, you've gotten in a shot several times in the past few hours.  You really want to play this game?

Yeah, I want to play this game whatever the hell that means.  Will had a bad night offensively, that really can't be argued.  I have less of a problem with Will and more of a problem with the role he is forced to play with this team, a role he clearly is not comfortable with.  He sucked tonight, doesn't mean I don't like the guy.  Get a grip and stop sounding so tuckish.

Your tantrums are tiresome.  Belaboring your point until no one cares to respond is the mark of immaturity that you seem to pride yourself on.  Get over yourself.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: MakeItRain on February 13, 2012, 11:30:02 PM
Its pretty clear Frank thinks our best line-up is Angel, Will, Rod. He's been trying to go that way since the OU game in Norman, and only Angel's foul problems have kept him off the floor.

Tay and Southy get to fight for the scrap minutes between pretty much those three spots right now. Jones would likely be in the mix if he wasn't injured.

I have come to agree that this is the best possible line up to win games, not only for the future, but for this year. Teams have to defend us different with Angel in the game simply because he is a threat to penetrate. We have a hard enough time scoring anyway and its clear that any line-up with Will at PG and Tay/Southy/whoever at the 2 just makes it really hard to score, especially against a team as strong defensively as KU. Our only chance to win tonight was a good game (he didn't even have to be great) from Angel and we didn't get that. I do not think a Will at PG and Tay at 2G combo for 30 minutes would've been any better and would've likely been worse. JMHO.

Will had his fair share of struggles guarding Taylor, but it was when he was on the bench that Taylor hit both of his threes and helped KU go on their run that ultimately won them the game.

Angel did nothing wrong on either of the threes.  Rodney should have forced the pass and hoped there was a closeout on time.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Andy on February 13, 2012, 11:30:27 PM
JO was pretty good tonight, would have been even better if the guards would have dumped to him for more DOBS

Or if frank wouldn't pull him and not put him back in for forever.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 13, 2012, 11:31:41 PM
We have a hard enough time scoring anyway and its clear that any line-up with Will at PG and Tay/Southy/whoever at the 2 just makes it really hard to score, especially against a team as strong defensively as KU. Our only chance to win tonight was a good game (he didn't even have to be great) from Angel and we didn't get that. I do not think a Will at PG and Tay at 2G combo for 30 minutes would've been any better and would've likely been worse. JMHO.

Ordinarily I would be inclined to agree with this if not for the fact that we only had 18 rough ridin' points in the first half. At home.

Angel only played 9 minutes in the first half. (he played 18 in the second half)
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: MakeItRain on February 13, 2012, 11:31:49 PM
Tyshawn Taylor started 33 games his freshman year.  Technically fat Sherron was the point guard.  Could you imagine how good Angel would be this year if he got to play next to Sherron instead of Will?

Why all the hate for Will?

I hate Will because I think Angel would play better besides the college version of Sherron?

Come on, you've gotten in a shot several times in the past few hours.  You really want to play this game?

Yeah, I want to play this game whatever the hell that means.  Will had a bad night offensively, that really can't be argued.  I have less of a problem with Will and more of a problem with the role he is forced to play with this team, a role he clearly is not comfortable with.  He sucked tonight, doesn't mean I don't like the guy.  Get a grip and stop sounding so tuckish.

Your tantrums are tiresome.  Belaboring your point until no one cares to respond is the mark of immaturity that you seem to pride yourself on.  Get over yourself.

You replied to the other post while I was typing, I edited that one while you were typing this one. :cheers:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: SkinnyBenny on February 13, 2012, 11:32:16 PM
We have a hard enough time scoring anyway and its clear that any line-up with Will at PG and Tay/Southy/whoever at the 2 just makes it really hard to score, especially against a team as strong defensively as KU. Our only chance to win tonight was a good game (he didn't even have to be great) from Angel and we didn't get that. I do not think a Will at PG and Tay at 2G combo for 30 minutes would've been any better and would've likely been worse. JMHO.

Ordinarily I would be inclined to agree with this if not for the fact that we only had 18 rough ridin' points in the first half. At home.

Angel only played 9 minutes in the first half. (he played 18 in the second half)

And he was rough ridin' awful in those nine minutes. Awful.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kso_FAN on February 13, 2012, 11:32:42 PM
We have a hard enough time scoring anyway and its clear that any line-up with Will at PG and Tay/Southy/whoever at the 2 just makes it really hard to score, especially against a team as strong defensively as KU. Our only chance to win tonight was a good game (he didn't even have to be great) from Angel and we didn't get that. I do not think a Will at PG and Tay at 2G combo for 30 minutes would've been any better and would've likely been worse. JMHO.

Ordinarily I would be inclined to agree with this if not for the fact that we only had 18 rough ridin' points in the first half. At home.

Angel's first half TOs didn't help, and KU made it hard to score, but we just missed a lot of shots. McGruds, Will, Angel all had some good looks and didn't make them. You don't shoot under 25% without missing some good shots too. That said, we (Angel) had way too many TOs in the first half. I still don't think a Will/Tay combo makes it any better.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kso_FAN on February 13, 2012, 11:34:07 PM
Angel did nothing wrong on either of the threes.  Rodney should have forced the pass and hoped there was a closeout on time.

Well Frank was ticked after the 2nd one and grabbed Will as quickly as he could've. He also said after the game that Angel shouldn't have taken a chance trying to draw a charge on the push off before the three.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: MakeItRain on February 13, 2012, 11:34:41 PM
JO was pretty good tonight, would have been even better if the guards would have dumped to him for more DOBS

Or if frank wouldn't pull him and not put him back in for forever.

JO played 26 minutes, Jamar was the only big who played more.  Frankly all of the bigs played well.  Not sure how anyone could have an issue with the distribution of minutes for the bigs.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: MakeItRain on February 13, 2012, 11:35:42 PM
Angel did nothing wrong on either of the threes.  Rodney should have forced the pass and hoped there was a closeout on time.

Well Frank was ticked after the 2nd one and grabbed Will as quickly as he could've. He also said after the game that Angel shouldn't have taken a chance trying to draw a charge on the push off before the three.

Yeah heard that, he'll see when he watches the film that he was wrong.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 13, 2012, 11:35:51 PM
Angel did nothing wrong on either of the threes.  Rodney should have forced the pass and hoped there was a closeout on time.

Well Frank was ticked after the 2nd one and grabbed Will as quickly as he could've. He also said after the game that Angel shouldn't have taken a chance trying to draw a charge on the push off before the three.

Angel was lacksadaisical recovering to Taylor, but at the same time Rod shouldn't have left him.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kso_FAN on February 14, 2012, 12:01:28 AM
The TOs were bad and led to some run outs, but KU also had a large amount of run outs on balls that just seemed to bounce out to the top of the key off missed shots or deflections right into their hands for a 3 on 1 or 2 break. Points off TOs actually ended up in our advantage, 10-7, but KU won fast break points by a large margin, 14-2.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: OregonSmock on February 14, 2012, 12:02:58 AM
Angel is great.  Please keep him on the roster, Frank.


 :pray:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: MakeItRain on February 14, 2012, 12:05:26 AM
I'm sad that pendergast is mad at me because out posts overlapped :cry:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: DQ12 on February 14, 2012, 12:05:51 AM
Angel is great.  Please keep him on the roster, Frank.


 :pray:
Like, it was the worst game of his season, man.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: bigwillie20 on February 14, 2012, 12:07:48 AM
Angel is great.  Please keep him on the roster, Frank.


 :pray:

I imagine you are 1 of the ones that pile on TT after he has a bad game and say he sucks  :flush:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kso_FAN on February 14, 2012, 12:11:28 AM
Angel only played 9 minutes in the first half. (he played 18 in the second half)

Angel played 9 minutes in the first half. K-State had an efficiency of .61 PPP.
Angel played 18 minutes in the second half, K-State had an efficiency of 1.11. Angel had 5 assists and 2 TOs.

Granted, he never found a shot and his first half was dreadful, but once he calmed down him being on the floor contributed greatly to getting K-State back in the game. There just wasn't enough offense from guys outside of Jamar to get over the terrible offense from the 1st half.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 14, 2012, 12:13:38 AM
Angel is great.  Please keep him on the roster, Frank.


 :pray:

the joke was amusing the first time.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: wabash909 on February 14, 2012, 12:40:46 AM
Jacob Pullen had 20 points as a true freshman against KU.

Just remember those times and cherish them...




Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 14, 2012, 12:44:47 AM
Jacob Pullen had 20 points as a true freshman against KU.

Just remember those times and cherish them...






And 1 at home against the Colorado Buffaloes. :cherish:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: OregonSmock on February 14, 2012, 12:46:04 AM
Angel is great.  Please keep him on the roster, Frank.


 :pray:

I imagine you are 1 of the ones that pile on TT after he has a bad game and say he sucks  :flush:



Nope.  I love Tyshawn Taylor's game.  Just an absolute joy to watch.  Angel is nothing at all like him in any aspect. 
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: DQ12 on February 14, 2012, 12:47:59 AM
Angel is great.  Please keep him on the roster, Frank.


 :pray:

I imagine you are 1 of the ones that pile on TT after he has a bad game and say he sucks  :flush:



Nope.  I love Tyshawn Taylor's game.  Just an absolute joy to watch.  Angel is nothing at all like him in any aspect. 
They're both prone to turnovers, at times.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: theymightbegiants on February 14, 2012, 12:48:39 AM
Angel is great.  Please keep him on the roster, Frank.


 :pray:

I imagine you are 1 of the ones that pile on TT after he has a bad game and say he sucks  :flush:



Nope.  I love Tyshawn Taylor's game.  Just an absolute joy to watch.  Angel is nothing at all like him in any aspect.  
Good call. He is like Denny and Jake put together, you know, but without the best parts.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Mixed-Nutz on February 14, 2012, 12:49:34 AM
Angle pressed to much today and end up not having a good day, but bring way to much to the table not to play and will end up being are best half court point in the frank era.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: wabash909 on February 14, 2012, 12:52:29 AM
Angel is by far the best we've got.

The hard part is wrapping your mind around it.


Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Mixed-Nutz on February 14, 2012, 12:56:38 AM
It would of been funny to see how much Denny would be hated on if he played as a freshmen for k-state.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 14, 2012, 12:57:40 AM
It would of been funny to see how much Denny would be hated on if he played as a freshmen for k-state.

LOL. And he was hated plenty as a senior for goodness sake.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: DQ12 on February 14, 2012, 12:59:22 AM
It's like, "Hey Angel, I know you're a freshman and all, but why do you play so immaturely at times?"
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: wabash909 on February 14, 2012, 01:01:09 AM
It's kind of like, hey Angel, we're 20 games into you freshman year.  You can start getting better any time now.


Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: sys on February 14, 2012, 01:04:24 AM
i absolutely love that ar-t played his worst game as a wildcat, possibly his worst game ever at any level, and still grabbed the ball and took it right to the rim in the final minute of a single digit game.

it was the right decision to lay it in too, just 'cause old, blind bob knight rambled about getting it to jhr doesn't mean he should have.  jhr would have had no chance to catch a ball at his waist from 3 feet away and ar-t had no angle to toss it at the rim.


ar-t for life.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 14, 2012, 01:06:16 AM
It's kind of like, hey Angel, we're 20 games into you freshman year.  You can start getting better any time now.




http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/boxscore?gid=200803140288

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwAjGsuyF2M&feature=related
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: TheProdigiousTalent on February 14, 2012, 01:23:04 AM
I feel sorry for Martavious Irving.  He's busted his ass for three years on the court and in the weight room for nothing, apparently.  I have to wonder whether he would have shown up in Manhattan for '11/'12 if he'd known that Angel won the immunity challenge.  What an effing travesty leaving that train wreck of a performance on the floor for roughly 3/4 of the game tonight.  Inexcusable unless Irving was hurt.  I acknowledge that Angel is the PG of the future, but he brought very little tonight aside from a really impressive jump ball with T Rob (hooray!).
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: sys on February 14, 2012, 01:26:04 AM
I feel sorry for Martavious Irving.  He's busted his ass for three years on the court and in the weight room for nothing, apparently.

shoulda busted his ass learning how to dribble, shoot and pass.  he was more than muscley enough as freshman.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: TheProdigiousTalent on February 14, 2012, 01:34:11 AM
I feel sorry for Martavious Irving.  He's busted his ass for three years on the court and in the weight room for nothing, apparently.

shoulda busted his ass learning how to dribble, shoot and pass.  he was more than muscley enough as freshman.
His game has improved dramatically, and he's an excellent defender.  Unless he was hurt or being disciplined, you can't justify leaving him on the bench all night (given the circumstances).  You just can't.  To state otherwise is just absurd.  Sorry.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: sys on February 14, 2012, 01:41:17 AM
I feel sorry for Martavious Irving.  He's busted his ass for three years on the court and in the weight room for nothing, apparently.

shoulda busted his ass learning how to dribble, shoot and pass.  he was more than muscley enough as freshman.
His game has improved dramatically, and he's a solid player.  Unless he was hurt or being disciplined, you can't justify leaving him on the bench all night (given the circumstances).  You just can't.  To state otherwise is just absurd.  Sorry.

it's pretty easy.  ar-t is a better, more skilled player, and moving spradling off the ball is a better lineup than spradling at the 1, irving at the 2.  so, playing ar-t over irving makes you better at two positions.



he probably would have been better than ar-t tonight, but you can only assume that in retrospect.  you shouldn´t pull a better player, playing hard but poorly, for a worse player any more than you'd change coins after flipping a run of tails.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Andy on February 14, 2012, 05:06:06 AM
JO was pretty good tonight, would have been even better if the guards would have dumped to him for more DOBS

Or if frank wouldn't pull him and not put him back in for forever.

JO played 26 minutes, Jamar was the only big who played more.  Frankly all of the bigs played well.  Not sure how anyone could have an issue with the distribution of minutes for the bigs.

frank pulled him after he made several great plays in a row at the start of the 2nd and it seemed forever till he got back out there.  it was probably more about the timing than the total minutes for me.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Andy on February 14, 2012, 05:12:07 AM
Angel is by far the best we've got.

The hard part is wrapping your mind around it.

a quick glance at our guard recruiting the past several years makes it easier
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: SkinnyBenny on February 14, 2012, 07:41:11 AM
 :facepalm:

Buncha Baghdad Bobs in this thread.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: HELLHAMMER on February 14, 2012, 07:46:38 AM
Angel was as far away from a D1 point guard last night as you can get.  The short little bastard is not ready for prime time yet.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: wabash909 on February 14, 2012, 07:48:09 AM
Angel is by far the best we've got.

The hard part is wrapping your mind around it.

a quick glance at our guard recruiting the past several years makes it easier

Recruiting better is NOT an option.


Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: EllToPay on February 14, 2012, 07:52:52 AM
What's the score if Tay plays Angels minutes?

Remember how we looked in the second half against UT and the first half tonight?  No one penetrating the defense, no one a threat to penetrate the defense, just passing the ball 25 feet out and then throwing up a shot and hope the huge get it.  We would have has 35 minutes of that.

Why aren't people asking about Tay playing Will's minutes, did I miss something about his game?

fair enough, i'm not suggesting that tay completely replace angel. my point is he should have logged some playing time in the 2nd half.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kso_FAN on February 14, 2012, 08:02:46 AM
FWIW, I agree Tay should've played more, but instead of Southwell, not Angel. No reason for Southy's 17 minutes given what he gave us last night.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: wabash909 on February 14, 2012, 08:11:20 AM
I've come to the conclusion that the next players we recruit should fundamentally possess an ability to shoot a basketball.

The 18 total points in the first half was kind of my "Ah Ha" moment.



Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: fr@ck me on February 14, 2012, 08:16:08 AM
I blame frank.  If he can't figure out you shouldn't put in a point guard who can't shoot, turns the ball over, and drives with his head down and no exit strategy then frank is just plain stupid.  We were far better with sprads at the point last year.  Not because we had pullen but because sprads doesn't turn the ball over.  We already know we aren't going to be a great offensive team, so if you aren't going to be great offensively you better protect the ball and play D.  we played D, and everyone but AR protected the ball.  Plain stupid coaching.

rumor is frank doesn't yell at AR because he is soft and can't take it.  If he is that pussified kick his ass off the team.

 :chainsaw: :curse: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kso_FAN on February 14, 2012, 08:21:45 AM
I blame frank.  If he can't figure out you shouldn't put in a point guard who can't shoot, turns the ball over, and drives with his head down and no exit strategy then frank is just plain stupid.  We were far better with sprads at the point last year.  Not because we had pullen but because sprads doesn't turn the ball over.  We already know we aren't going to be a great offensive team, so if you aren't going to be great offensively you better protect the ball and play D.  we played D, and everyone but AR protected the ball.  Plain stupid coaching.

rumor is frank doesn't yell at AR because he is soft and can't take it.  If he is that pussified kick his ass off the team.

 :chainsaw: :curse: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:

The first half was terrible, but we played our best with Angel at the point in the 2nd half. I'm not sure if people really watched our offense when Angel wasn't in the game. There are opponents where we can get by with Will at PG, KU is not one of them.

We also played 11 first half minutes without Angel in the game and our offense wasn't any better.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: pissclams on February 14, 2012, 08:28:10 AM
idiots that can't realize that angel isn't to blame for our offense being completely broken, and instead is actually the one option frank has to help fix it, are rough ridin' Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) and need to go back to kstatefans/gpc.

thx for leaving, you rough ridin' dumbasses.  we don't need the $.04 cents you generate from google ads.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Underdog Wildcat on February 14, 2012, 08:40:58 AM
idiots that can't realize that angel isn't to blame for our offense being completely broken, and instead is actually the one option frank has to help fix it.

Whose fault is this?

This didn't have to be Angel's team YET, a tough situation 3 years in the making.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: SkinnyBenny on February 14, 2012, 08:45:37 AM
idiots that can't realize that angel isn't to blame for our offense being completely broken, and instead is actually the one option frank has to help fix it, are rough ridin' Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) and need to go back to kstatefans/gpc.

thx for leaving, you rough ridin' dumbasses.  we don't need the $.04 cents you generate from google ads.


Idiots who can't admit Angel was a complete liability last night are trying way too hard to be (what they see as) anti-tuck. 
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kso_FAN on February 14, 2012, 08:47:26 AM
idiots that can't realize that angel isn't to blame for our offense being completely broken, and instead is actually the one option frank has to help fix it.

Whose fault is this?

This didn't have to be Angel's team YET, a tough situation 3 years in the making.

Good question. This line up just isn't built to have a PG like Will, but I don't think Frank's teams in general are either. We've talked plenty about Frank's multi combo guard system, but with a primary ball handler who can get to the rim. Ultimately I suppose you have to say recruiting is to blame because it's clear that Angel is the best we have available.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: fr@ck me on February 14, 2012, 08:50:11 AM
I blame frank.  If he can't figure out you shouldn't put in a point guard who can't shoot, turns the ball over, and drives with his head down and no exit strategy then frank is just plain stupid.  We were far better with sprads at the point last year.  Not because we had pullen but because sprads doesn't turn the ball over.  We already know we aren't going to be a great offensive team, so if you aren't going to be great offensively you better protect the ball and play D.  we played D, and everyone but AR protected the ball.  Plain stupid coaching.

rumor is frank doesn't yell at AR because he is soft and can't take it.  If he is that pussified kick his ass off the team.

 :chainsaw: :curse: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:

The first half was terrible, but we played our best with Angel at the point in the 2nd half. I'm not sure if people really watched our offense when Angel wasn't in the game. There are opponents where we can get by with Will at PG, KU is not one of them.

We also played 11 first half minutes without Angel in the game and our offense wasn't any better.

I guess turning the ball over 7 of our 11 times is acceptable.  My bad. :tuckingshirtbackin:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: the KHAN! on February 14, 2012, 08:50:24 AM
idiots that can't realize that angel isn't to blame for our offense being completely broken, and instead is actually the one option frank has to help fix it, are rough ridin' Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) and need to go back to kstatefans/gpc.

thx for leaving, you rough ridin' dumbasses.  we don't need the $.04 cents you generate from google ads.


Idiots who can't admit Angel was a complete liability last night are trying way too hard to be (what they see as) anti-tuck. 

This
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kso_FAN on February 14, 2012, 09:03:05 AM
I guess turning the ball over 7 of our 11 times is acceptable.  My bad. :tuckingshirtbackin:

I never have excused his turnovers. I have said over and over he was a liability in the first half, you simply can't have a 0 assist and 5 turnover half without making any shots from your PG. Its the reason he only played 9 minutes. But again, its not like our offense picked up without him on the floor.

I am willing to acknowledge that while he still didn't hit shots, the 18 minutes he played in the 2nd half were solid with 5 assists and 2 turnovers. He helped us get back in the game. Granted, he didn't and couldn't make plays in the last couple minutes and it hurt us. But so did Will and McGruder combining to go 0 for 7 from 3, most of them good looks. Angel's bad first half contributed greatly to our poor offense and I'm not letting him off the hook for that, but we also played our best basketball with him on the floor and I don't believe we have better options than playing Angel at PG. We are limited, because he's only going to be able to play 25 or so minutes at this point and Will or someone else has to step up and fill the role, which is a struggle too.

I know these can be decieving with college basketball, but its a decent tool to look at player impact. You tell me who hurt us the worst last night: http://statsheet.com/mcb/games/2012/02/13/kansas-59-kansas-state-53/plus_minus
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 14, 2012, 09:04:29 AM
idiots that can't realize that angel isn't to blame for our offense being completely broken, and instead is actually the one option frank has to help fix it.

Whose fault is this?

This didn't have to be Angel's team YET, a tough situation 3 years in the making.

It's the fault of Jio Fontan and Mike Rosario. :frown:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: pissclams on February 14, 2012, 09:06:07 AM
idiots that can't realize that angel isn't to blame for our offense being completely broken, and instead is actually the one option frank has to help fix it.

Whose fault is this?

This didn't have to be Angel's team YET, a tough situation 3 years in the making.

serious question?

idiots that can't realize that angel isn't to blame for our offense being completely broken, and instead is actually the one option frank has to help fix it, are rough ridin' Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) and need to go back to kstatefans/gpc.

thx for leaving, you rough ridin' dumbasses.  we don't need the $.04 cents you generate from google ads.


Idiots who can't admit Angel was a complete liability last night are trying way too hard to be (what they see as) anti-tuck.  

do you know who are you talking to/about?
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: pissclams on February 14, 2012, 09:07:09 AM
idiots that can't realize that angel isn't to blame for our offense being completely broken, and instead is actually the one option frank has to help fix it.

Whose fault is this?

This didn't have to be Angel's team YET, a tough situation 3 years in the making.

Good question. This line up just isn't built to have a PG like Will, but I don't think Frank's teams in general are either. We've talked plenty about Frank's multi combo guard system, but with a primary ball handler who can get to the rim. Ultimately I suppose you have to say recruiting is to blame because it's clear that Angel is the best we have available.

recruiting and the subsequent franking of said recruits.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: wabash909 on February 14, 2012, 09:08:15 AM
idiots that can't realize that angel isn't to blame for our offense being completely broken, and instead is actually the one option frank has to help fix it.

Whose fault is this?

This didn't have to be Angel's team YET, a tough situation 3 years in the making.

Good question. This line up just isn't built to have a PG like Will, but I don't think Frank's teams in general are either. We've talked plenty about Frank's multi combo guard system, but with a primary ball handler who can get to the rim. Ultimately I suppose you have to say recruiting is to blame because it's clear that Angel is the best we have available.

This absolutely is a recruiting issue and inadequately adressing the guard position in the previous two classes is the real culprit.  

Angel will hopefully get better but the burden should not all be on his shoulders.

But, this is what happens when you address the guard position in 2009 by a recruiting class that consists of Martavious Irving and Nick Russell and in 2010 with Juevol Myles and Will Spradling and I guess Shane Southwell (who isn't a guard) and then proceed to run two of the four off.  Then in 2011 mix in a JUCO guard that sits on the bench.

We've seen this coming.


Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kso_FAN on February 14, 2012, 09:10:42 AM
idiots that can't realize that angel isn't to blame for our offense being completely broken, and instead is actually the one option frank has to help fix it.

Whose fault is this?

This didn't have to be Angel's team YET, a tough situation 3 years in the making.

Good question. This line up just isn't built to have a PG like Will, but I don't think Frank's teams in general are either. We've talked plenty about Frank's multi combo guard system, but with a primary ball handler who can get to the rim. Ultimately I suppose you have to say recruiting is to blame because it's clear that Angel is the best we have available.

This absolutely is a recruiting issue and inadequately adressing the guard position in the previous two classes is the real culprit. 

Angel will hopefully get better but the burden should not all be on his shoulders.

But, this is what happens when you address the guard position in 2009 by a recruiting class that consists of Martavious Irving and Nick Russell and in 2010 with Juevol Myles and Will Spradling and I guess Shane Southwell (who isn't a guard) and then proceed to run two of the four off.  Then in 2011 mix in a JUCO guard that sits on the bench.

We've seen this coming.




True, its not a complete surprise.

I think its more missing out than the Franking though, its not like we've Franked a lot of guys that you can say would've been able to compete with Angel. I mean the best option at PG that was run was probably Myles? Russell?
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 14, 2012, 09:13:25 AM
Angel is really good. He played poorly against KU, but he's the best we have and that's not really a bad thing.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: pissclams on February 14, 2012, 09:18:36 AM
Angel is really good. He played poorly against KU, but he's the best we have and that's not really a bad thing.

it's much easier for them to look at the problems with our offense and attempt to diagnose the issues and then place blame on a single individual (angel) without looking at and understanding the big picture.  it's a simple and emotional response.

angel did some good and bad things last night. 

ultimately, this team, with angel, was in a position at the end that they could have won a game last night.  things didn't go our way but there's no reason to hang the freshman because of it.   and dipshits that want to need to be put in their place.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: wabash909 on February 14, 2012, 09:19:24 AM
idiots that can't realize that angel isn't to blame for our offense being completely broken, and instead is actually the one option frank has to help fix it.

Whose fault is this?

This didn't have to be Angel's team YET, a tough situation 3 years in the making.

Good question. This line up just isn't built to have a PG like Will, but I don't think Frank's teams in general are either. We've talked plenty about Frank's multi combo guard system, but with a primary ball handler who can get to the rim. Ultimately I suppose you have to say recruiting is to blame because it's clear that Angel is the best we have available.

This absolutely is a recruiting issue and inadequately adressing the guard position in the previous two classes is the real culprit. 

Angel will hopefully get better but the burden should not all be on his shoulders.

But, this is what happens when you address the guard position in 2009 by a recruiting class that consists of Martavious Irving and Nick Russell and in 2010 with Juevol Myles and Will Spradling and I guess Shane Southwell (who isn't a guard) and then proceed to run two of the four off.  Then in 2011 mix in a JUCO guard that sits on the bench.

We've seen this coming.


True, its not a complete surprise.

I think its more missing out than the Franking though, its not like we've Franked a lot of guys that you can say would've been able to compete with Angel. I mean the best option at PG that was run was probably Myles? Russell?

Yeah, it's more of a not being a being able to recruit a point guard problem.  

Although, had he not been Franked, I believe Nick would have given some decent minutes this year especially with Jeremy Jones' mystery injury.


Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Underdog Wildcat on February 14, 2012, 09:19:32 AM
idiots that can't realize that angel isn't to blame for our offense being completely broken, and instead is actually the one option frank has to help fix it.

Whose fault is this?

This didn't have to be Angel's team YET, a tough situation 3 years in the making.

It's the fault of Jio Fontan and Mike Rosario. :frown:

DJO played JC ball 2 hrs down the road from MHK, we didn't even bat an eye towards him, it's not the specific players we missed on, it's the actual roster needs and potential holes that need be better identified and addressed.

Not 1 above average B12 guard on this roster and it killed us last night and it's a big reason why we've run into some struggles.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: fr@ck me on February 14, 2012, 09:24:49 AM
Angel is really good. He played poorly against KU, but he's the best we have and that's not really a bad thing.

it's much easier for them to look at the problems with our offense and attempt to diagnose the issues and then place blame on a single individual (angel) without looking at and understanding the big picture.  it's a simple and emotional response.

angel did some good and bad things last night. 

ultimately, this team, with angel, was in a position at the end that they could have won a game last night.  things didn't go our way but there's no reason to hang the freshman because of it.   and dipshits that want to need to be put in their place.

That's why I blamed frank.  We won't be any better next year either since we didn't land a guard this year. 
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kso_FAN on February 14, 2012, 09:25:31 AM
Although, had he not been Franked, I believe Nick would have given some decent minutes this year especially with Jeremy Jones' mystery injury.

Jones broke a bone in his ankle. They X-rayed it 3 times, but didn't fine it until they did an MRI. Before Texas, Frank said it would be another 7-10 days until he could play.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kso_FAN on February 14, 2012, 09:27:18 AM
That's why I blamed frank.  We won't be any better next year either since we didn't land a guard this year. 

Fair enough, but you don't think any of our guards will get better? Blame Frank for Franking, but guys he keeps around tend to get better.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: EMAW SP8 on February 14, 2012, 09:31:36 AM
FWIW, I agree Tay should've played more, but instead of Southwell, not Angel. No reason for Southy's 17 minutes given what he gave us last night.

Thank you, Angel had a down night. But he was our best option.

The Straw can pass, and occasionally create, but seemed inept last night. Could have atleast given 'tay a chance during the second half  :dunno:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: AbeFroman on February 14, 2012, 09:34:29 AM
Angel should have been benched the 2nd half. No, he doesn't suck, but he was crap last night and you gotta go with what is working, and he wasn't working. He as just tossing up volleyball serves to Whithey. Our bigs were doing good last night, JO, Gip, Jamar, and yet we kept letting Angel and Sprads take crap.
Title: Re: Re: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 14, 2012, 09:38:34 AM
idiots that can't realize that angel isn't to blame for our offense being completely broken, and instead is actually the one option frank has to help fix it.

Whose fault is this?

This didn't have to be Angel's team YET, a tough situation 3 years in the making.

It's the fault of Jio Fontan and Mike Rosario. :frown:

DJO played JC ball 2 hrs down the road from MHK, we didn't even bat an eye towards him, it's not the specific players we missed on, it's the actual roster needs and potential holes that need be better identified and addressed.



I thought we looked at DJO. I agree that Frank should have managed the guard situation better.
Title: Re: Re: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 14, 2012, 09:41:44 AM
Angel should have been benched the 2nd half. No, he doesn't suck, but he was crap last night and you gotta go with what is working, and he wasn't working. He as just tossing up volleyball serves to Whithey. Our bigs were doing good last night, JO, Gip, Jamar, and yet we kept letting Angel and Sprads take crap.

He wasn't bad in the second half at all. Get over the Bob Knight pass to JO. Agree he was awful in the first half, and him sittng on the bench so much was a big part of why our first half offense was about half as efficient as the second.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 14, 2012, 09:43:29 AM
idiots that can't realize that angel isn't to blame for our offense being completely broken, and instead is actually the one option frank has to help fix it.

Whose fault is this?

This didn't have to be Angel's team YET, a tough situation 3 years in the making.

Good question. This line up just isn't built to have a PG like Will, but I don't think Frank's teams in general are either. We've talked plenty about Frank's multi combo guard system, but with a primary ball handler who can get to the rim. Ultimately I suppose you have to say recruiting is to blame because it's clear that Angel is the best we have available.

This absolutely is a recruiting issue and inadequately adressing the guard position in the previous two classes is the real culprit. 

Angel will hopefully get better but the burden should not all be on his shoulders.

But, this is what happens when you address the guard position in 2009 by a recruiting class that consists of Martavious Irving and Nick Russell and in 2010 with Juevol Myles and Will Spradling and I guess Shane Southwell (who isn't a guard) and then proceed to run two of the four off.  Then in 2011 mix in a JUCO guard that sits on the bench.

We've seen this coming.


True, its not a complete surprise.

I think its more missing out than the Franking though, its not like we've Franked a lot of guys that you can say would've been able to compete with Angel. I mean the best option at PG that was run was probably Myles? Russell?

Yeah, it's more of a not being a being able to recruit a point guard problem.  

Although, had he not been Franked, I believe Nick would have given some decent minutes this year especially with Jeremy Jones' mystery injury.




When we are starting a freshman at point guard and a senior and junior at the posts, it makes sense to address the post first. Angel will be much better next season and Spradling will only be a junior. Complain when Frank doesn't recruit a guard in 2013.
Title: Re: Re: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Underdog Wildcat on February 14, 2012, 09:46:21 AM
idiots that can't realize that angel isn't to blame for our offense being completely broken, and instead is actually the one option frank has to help fix it.

Whose fault is this?

This didn't have to be Angel's team YET, a tough situation 3 years in the making.

It's the fault of Jio Fontan and Mike Rosario. :frown:

DJO played JC ball 2 hrs down the road from MHK, we didn't even bat an eye towards him, it's not the specific players we missed on, it's the actual roster needs and potential holes that need be better identified and addressed.



I thought we looked at DJO. I agree that Frank should have managed the guard situation better.

Living in the cosmopolitan jewel of SCK known as Hutch for the last several years, I had the opportunity to watch DJO play ball here, and while by no means would I call myself a scouting expert, it was pretty evident he could play at a high level.

I paid fairly close attention to his recruitment, and while it's not impossible that KSU contacted him, I don't remember seeing or hearing anything about that. Pasted below was probably the most informative update on his recruitment, prior to his Marquette commitment.


1/22/09 update:
Because of his impressive play on the court, Johnson-Odom has emerged as one of the most heavily recruited prospects in the junior college ranks. Kansas isn't the only high-major program to stop by Hutchinson Community College this season, and they won't be the last."

"Pittsburgh has been by to see me this season," he said. "Tennessee has also been by to watch me play. Kentucky, Providence, Western Kentucky, Cincinnati, West Virginia and Virginia Tech are all interested in me. I have a real good relationship with Coach Seth Greenberg from Virginia Tech."

http://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=903464

Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kso_FAN on February 14, 2012, 09:48:57 AM
Angel should have been benched the 2nd half. No, he doesn't suck, but he was crap last night and you gotta go with what is working, and he wasn't working. He as just tossing up volleyball serves to Whithey. Our bigs were doing good last night, JO, Gip, Jamar, and yet we kept letting Angel and Sprads take crap.

Again, if this was the option, who plays?

In the first half every time Angel had a string of mistakes, he was benched. In the 2nd half he played better. Plus, all of his turnovers were attacking, trying to make a play. Frank has said over and over the ones he hates are the careless, lackadaisical ones. Angel had very few of those, every time he did he came out and Frank was all over him. but as the game went along and Frank saw how stagnant our offense was without him, he got Angel back in the game. And besides missing shots, he was mostly working in the 2nd half.

And I can't complain about our shots. Only 28% of our shot attempts were 3s, below Frank's typical distribution of 31-32% of shot attempts coming from 3.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: steve dave on February 14, 2012, 09:50:42 AM
when angel out manned Thomas Robinson for the jump ball and then Thomas Robinson acted all hurt for a bit like Angel was too rough with him I smiled ear to ear.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: AbeFroman on February 14, 2012, 09:58:20 AM
Angel should have been benched the 2nd half. No, he doesn't suck, but he was crap last night and you gotta go with what is working, and he wasn't working. He as just tossing up volleyball serves to Whithey. Our bigs were doing good last night, JO, Gip, Jamar, and yet we kept letting Angel and Sprads take crap.

Again, if this was the option, who plays?



Irving got what, 5 minutes last night?
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 14, 2012, 10:00:06 AM
Angel should have been benched the 2nd half. No, he doesn't suck, but he was crap last night and you gotta go with what is working, and he wasn't working. He as just tossing up volleyball serves to Whithey. Our bigs were doing good last night, JO, Gip, Jamar, and yet we kept letting Angel and Sprads take crap.

Again, if this was the option, who plays?



Irving got what, 5 minutes last night?

What did you see in those 5 minutes that made you think we were going to come back and win if only Angel would have stayed on the bench?
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kso_FAN on February 14, 2012, 10:02:08 AM
Angel should have been benched the 2nd half. No, he doesn't suck, but he was crap last night and you gotta go with what is working, and he wasn't working. He as just tossing up volleyball serves to Whithey. Our bigs were doing good last night, JO, Gip, Jamar, and yet we kept letting Angel and Sprads take crap.

Again, if this was the option, who plays?



Irving got what, 5 minutes last night?

Irving at PG? Or Irving at 2 with Will at PG? I don't like either.

FWIW, I would've liked to see Irving more too, but in Southwell's minutes. The 4 to 17 minute distribution between them made the least sense to me of anyone's playing time, especially since Irving played solid against KU in Lawrence.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: bigwillie20 on February 14, 2012, 10:03:12 AM
when angel out manned Thomas Robinson for the jump ball and then Thomas Robinson acted all hurt for a bit like Angel was too rough with him I smiled ear to ear.

(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.kansan.com%2Fimg%2Fphotos%2F2012%2F02%2F14%2F120213_bkcvskstate_cbronson850_t990.jpg%3F30f31baef1afd0a91aba8e74ec76c5214cc818ca&hash=2eb447887682884deed583fe2b84a4711ac13e7e)

(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.kansascity.com%2Fsmedia%2F2012%2F02%2F13%2F23%2F18%2FL9FqX.SlMa.81.jpg&hash=df9ad31406a9346eb7016bcb3f9c90b2d736436a)

(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn1.sbnation.com%2Fphoto_images%2F5549383%2F73688_Kansas_Kansas_St_Basketball.jpg&hash=a995a10a785a227735df7c865698ea62d1931cae)

 :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: steve dave on February 14, 2012, 10:03:51 AM
when angel out manned Thomas Robinson for the jump ball and then Thomas Robinson acted all hurt for a bit like Angel was too rough with him I smiled ear to ear.

(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.kansan.com%2Fimg%2Fphotos%2F2012%2F02%2F14%2F120213_bkcvskstate_cbronson850_t990.jpg%3F30f31baef1afd0a91aba8e74ec76c5214cc818ca&hash=2eb447887682884deed583fe2b84a4711ac13e7e)

(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.kansascity.com%2Fsmedia%2F2012%2F02%2F13%2F23%2F18%2FL9FqX.SlMa.81.jpg&hash=df9ad31406a9346eb7016bcb3f9c90b2d736436a)

(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn1.sbnation.com%2Fphoto_images%2F5549383%2F73688_Kansas_Kansas_St_Basketball.jpg&hash=a995a10a785a227735df7c865698ea62d1931cae)

 :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love:

Yes, OMG YES  :love:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: steve dave on February 14, 2012, 10:04:09 AM
also:

Jamar Samuels: +5
Martvious Irving: +2
Angel Rodriguez: +1
Will Spradling: 0
Jordan Henriquez: -1
Victor Ojeleye: -2
Rodney McGruder: -4
Adrian Diaz: -6
Thomas Gipson: -8
Shane Southwell: -17
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 14, 2012, 10:26:34 AM
also:

Jamar Samuels: +5
Martvious Irving: +2
Angel Rodriguez: +1
Will Spradling: 0
Jordan Henriquez: -1
Victor Ojeleye: -2
Rodney McGruder: -4
Adrian Diaz: -6
Thomas Gipson: -8
Shane Southwell: -17


Jordan Henriquez-Roberts: Name too long to be counted
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Dugout DickStone on February 14, 2012, 10:46:39 AM

No, he created opportunities turnover after turnover after turnover after turnover after turnover after turnover after turnover after turnover.

Fixed it for you.

We didn't have a better option.  Not sure why this is confusing.   :dunno:

eff this.  Angel is playing because he is our future, not because he played better than someone else could have.  Figure it the eff out.  he was rough ridin' horrible tonight and to defend him is ludicrous.  Frank was furious with his play, but it's growing pains.  I just wish he would rough ridin' learn from his mistakes instead of doing the same crap over and over and rough ridin' over.

This is what I think.  Frank wants a dependable pg for at least 2 years.  The marginal difference between ART and Tay or someone else isn't worth the seasoning Frank thinks his pg is getting.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: wabash909 on February 14, 2012, 10:47:44 AM

When we are starting a freshman at point guard and a senior and junior at the posts, it makes sense to address the post first. Angel will be much better next season and Spradling will only be a junior. Complain when Frank doesn't recruit a guard in 2013.

I'm confused.  What does recruiting a PG in 2013 that have to do with not recruiting a high impact point guard in the last two classes?

Notice that the the top three teams in the Big XII all have upperclassmen at the point.  It's not a coincidence.

This isn't about Angel.  This is about recruiting failures and roster management having forced us into relying solely on a true freshman when we shouldn't be.


Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: SkinnyBenny on February 14, 2012, 10:49:28 AM
This isn't about Angel.  This is about recruiting failures and roster management having forced us into relying solely on a true freshman when we shouldn't be.

(But it's also kinda about Angel.)
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: wabash909 on February 14, 2012, 10:58:03 AM
This isn't about Angel.  This is about recruiting failures and roster management having forced us into relying solely on a true freshman when we shouldn't be.

(But it's also kinda about Angel.)


Yeah, he goes through periods where he shows flashes of brilliance and then completely blows ass.  He's a freshman, he's wildly inconsistent, but as has been hashed out a 1000 times, Frank obviously thinks he gives us the best chance to win because he's the best we've got.

The bigger picture is a true freshman shouldn't be the best we've got.


Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: SkinnyBenny on February 14, 2012, 11:02:41 AM
But ya Souhtwell was also hilariously awful last night.  Oh man.  There was one time in the first half when he (stole? ended up with a loose ball?) and fast-breaked it downcourt. kats65 saw this and as he was driving downcourt she goes, "WHAT'S YOUR PLAN, BUDDY???" and then he did some weird jump stop thing that near the elbow and just sorta did this weird-ass backwards pass/fumble thingy.  Timing was hilarious.

Until it happened again a second time right after that.  Same scenario, same kats65 quote, same hilarious/infuriating result (i.e. no points). 

Man. We suck.   :flush:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 14, 2012, 11:05:52 AM

When we are starting a freshman at point guard and a senior and junior at the posts, it makes sense to address the post first. Angel will be much better next season and Spradling will only be a junior. Complain when Frank doesn't recruit a guard in 2013.

I'm confused.  What does recruiting a PG in 2013 that have to do with not recruiting a high impact point guard in the last two classes?

Notice that the the top three teams in the Big XII all have upperclassmen at the point.  It's not a coincidence.

This isn't about Angel.  This is about recruiting failures and roster management having forced us into relying solely on a true freshman when we shouldn't be.




Frank has recruited Angel, Spradling, and Irving in the last three classes. Angel is going to be very good. Spradling and Irving are both solid role players.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: MakeItRain on February 14, 2012, 11:09:32 AM
This isn't about Angel.  This is about recruiting failures and roster management having forced us into relying solely on a true freshman when we shouldn't be.

(But it's also kinda about Angel.)


Yeah, he goes through periods where he shows flashes of brilliance and then completely blows ass.  He's a freshman, he's wildly inconsistent, but as has been hashed out a 1000 times, Frank obviously thinks he gives us the best chance to win because he's the best we've got.

The bigger picture is a true freshman shouldn't be the best we've got.




In each of the last two seasons Frank has lost the two best guards he has ever had.  Not having another guard this year is bad but I can live with it.  The issue is the two CC transfers he brought in.  Not sure what the point of Watson was and Jones was going to be Russell 2.0 at best.  I've spent three years talking about the issues at guard but I can tolerate a bridge year if ar-t continues to get better.  We still need a guard, I'd love to land a mysguard CC transfer, and a real ball handling guard, not another damn tweener.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Cire on February 14, 2012, 11:14:37 AM
SS was awful.  like Dom against Wisconsin.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Underdog Wildcat on February 14, 2012, 11:25:08 AM

When we are starting a freshman at point guard and a senior and junior at the posts, it makes sense to address the post first. Angel will be much better next season and Spradling will only be a junior. Complain when Frank doesn't recruit a guard in 2013.

I'm confused.  What does recruiting a PG in 2013 that have to do with not recruiting a high impact point guard in the last two classes?

Notice that the the top three teams in the Big XII all have upperclassmen at the point.  It's not a coincidence.

This isn't about Angel.  This is about recruiting failures and roster management having forced us into relying solely on a true freshman when we shouldn't be.




Frank has recruited Angel, Spradling, and Irving in the last three classes. Angel is going to be very good. Spradling and Irving are both solid role players.

Sprads and Tay are solid role players, we all know that, that's not being debated. A lot of us see potential in Angel and hope he can consistently get better throughout his career, but it's pretty clear he's not a primetime, lead guard yet.

The issue is, why don't we have that difference making lead guard on our roster this year? Hindsight is always 20/20 but a lot of us are lamenting the fact that our staff did not ID the need to have a dynamic, difference making guard either already in the system or ready to make an immediate impact for the 11/12 team.

Obviously, those types of players are highly coveted throughout the country and aren't just on any random street corner, but it's our staff's job to ID those kids early and convince hopefully 1 at least to come play ball for the KSU Cats.

Not saying there isn't hope for the future, because I believe there is, but it would have been ideal to establish more continuity for the program this year through better recruiting and roster management that took place in the past.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 14, 2012, 11:27:31 AM

When we are starting a freshman at point guard and a senior and junior at the posts, it makes sense to address the post first. Angel will be much better next season and Spradling will only be a junior. Complain when Frank doesn't recruit a guard in 2013.

I'm confused.  What does recruiting a PG in 2013 that have to do with not recruiting a high impact point guard in the last two classes?

Notice that the the top three teams in the Big XII all have upperclassmen at the point.  It's not a coincidence.

This isn't about Angel.  This is about recruiting failures and roster management having forced us into relying solely on a true freshman when we shouldn't be.




Frank has recruited Angel, Spradling, and Irving in the last three classes. Angel is going to be very good. Spradling and Irving are both solid role players.

Sprads and Tay are solid role players, we all know that, that's not being debated. A lot of us see potential in Angel and hope he can consistently get better throughout his career, but it's pretty clear he's not a primetime, lead guard yet.

The issue is, why don't we have that difference making lead guard on our roster this year? Hindsight is always 20/20 but a lot of us are lamenting the fact that our staff did not ID the need to have a dynamic, difference making guard either already in the system or ready to make an immediate impact for the 11/12 team.

Obviously, those types of players are highly coveted throughout the country and aren't just on any random street corner, but it's our staff's job to ID those kids early and convince hopefully 1 at least to come play ball for the KSU Cats.

Not saying there isn't hope for the future, because I believe there is, but it would have been ideal to establish more continuity for the program this year through better recruiting and roster management that took place in the past.

The staff probably thought they had that with Nick Russell. He ended up being a bust. That is why we are starting a freshman this year. I'm happy with what our guard situation will be next year, though.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: nicname on February 14, 2012, 11:31:58 AM

When we are starting a freshman at point guard and a senior and junior at the posts, it makes sense to address the post first. Angel will be much better next season and Spradling will only be a junior. Complain when Frank doesn't recruit a guard in 2013.

I'm confused.  What does recruiting a PG in 2013 that have to do with not recruiting a high impact point guard in the last two classes?

Notice that the the top three teams in the Big XII all have upperclassmen at the point.  It's not a coincidence.

This isn't about Angel.  This is about recruiting failures and roster management having forced us into relying solely on a true freshman when we shouldn't be.




Frank has recruited Angel, Spradling, and Irving in the last three classes. Angel is going to be very good. Spradling and Irving are both solid role players.

Sprads and Tay are solid role players, we all know that, that's not being debated. A lot of us see potential in Angel and hope he can consistently get better throughout his career, but it's pretty clear he's not a primetime, lead guard yet.

The issue is, why don't we have that difference making lead guard on our roster this year? Hindsight is always 20/20 but a lot of us are lamenting the fact that our staff did not ID the need to have a dynamic, difference making guard either already in the system or ready to make an immediate impact for the 11/12 team.

Obviously, those types of players are highly coveted throughout the country and aren't just on any random street corner, but it's our staff's job to ID those kids early and convince hopefully 1 at least to come play ball for the KSU Cats.

Not saying there isn't hope for the future, because I believe there is, but it would have been ideal to establish more continuity for the program this year through better recruiting and roster management that took place in the past.

Probably because our program isn't at the level where it can just go out and "get the guy it needs" every year.  We did go out and get Pullen, then Clemente, then Tay, then Will, then Angel if we are talking about 1ish type guards.  KSU is going to have rebuilding years.  We might as well get used to it. 
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: CNS on February 14, 2012, 11:32:25 AM
I think more was expected in Will's Frosh to Soph bounce than what we have received.  

Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Underdog Wildcat on February 14, 2012, 11:35:09 AM

When we are starting a freshman at point guard and a senior and junior at the posts, it makes sense to address the post first. Angel will be much better next season and Spradling will only be a junior. Complain when Frank doesn't recruit a guard in 2013.

I'm confused.  What does recruiting a PG in 2013 that have to do with not recruiting a high impact point guard in the last two classes?

Notice that the the top three teams in the Big XII all have upperclassmen at the point.  It's not a coincidence.

This isn't about Angel.  This is about recruiting failures and roster management having forced us into relying solely on a true freshman when we shouldn't be.




Frank has recruited Angel, Spradling, and Irving in the last three classes. Angel is going to be very good. Spradling and Irving are both solid role players.

Sprads and Tay are solid role players, we all know that, that's not being debated. A lot of us see potential in Angel and hope he can consistently get better throughout his career, but it's pretty clear he's not a primetime, lead guard yet.

The issue is, why don't we have that difference making lead guard on our roster this year? Hindsight is always 20/20 but a lot of us are lamenting the fact that our staff did not ID the need to have a dynamic, difference making guard either already in the system or ready to make an immediate impact for the 11/12 team.

Obviously, those types of players are highly coveted throughout the country and aren't just on any random street corner, but it's our staff's job to ID those kids early and convince hopefully 1 at least to come play ball for the KSU Cats.

Not saying there isn't hope for the future, because I believe there is, but it would have been ideal to establish more continuity for the program this year through better recruiting and roster management that took place in the past.

The staff probably thought they had that with Nick Russell. He ended up being a bust. That is why we are starting a freshman this year. I'm happy with what our guard situation will be next year, though.

Which goes directly to poor scouting on the staff's part.

You could also look at Devon Peterson. or Jeremy Jones, Or Omari Lawrence. I really hope they didn't foresse Sprads as a lead guard type, there were some murmurings about that.

Lack of foresight or poor scouting? It's really got to be 1 or of the other.

Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 14, 2012, 11:40:47 AM

When we are starting a freshman at point guard and a senior and junior at the posts, it makes sense to address the post first. Angel will be much better next season and Spradling will only be a junior. Complain when Frank doesn't recruit a guard in 2013.

I'm confused.  What does recruiting a PG in 2013 that have to do with not recruiting a high impact point guard in the last two classes?

Notice that the the top three teams in the Big XII all have upperclassmen at the point.  It's not a coincidence.

This isn't about Angel.  This is about recruiting failures and roster management having forced us into relying solely on a true freshman when we shouldn't be.




Frank has recruited Angel, Spradling, and Irving in the last three classes. Angel is going to be very good. Spradling and Irving are both solid role players.

Sprads and Tay are solid role players, we all know that, that's not being debated. A lot of us see potential in Angel and hope he can consistently get better throughout his career, but it's pretty clear he's not a primetime, lead guard yet.

The issue is, why don't we have that difference making lead guard on our roster this year? Hindsight is always 20/20 but a lot of us are lamenting the fact that our staff did not ID the need to have a dynamic, difference making guard either already in the system or ready to make an immediate impact for the 11/12 team.

Obviously, those types of players are highly coveted throughout the country and aren't just on any random street corner, but it's our staff's job to ID those kids early and convince hopefully 1 at least to come play ball for the KSU Cats.

Not saying there isn't hope for the future, because I believe there is, but it would have been ideal to establish more continuity for the program this year through better recruiting and roster management that took place in the past.

The staff probably thought they had that with Nick Russell. He ended up being a bust. That is why we are starting a freshman this year. I'm happy with what our guard situation will be next year, though.

Which goes directly to poor scouting on the staff's part.

You could also look at Devon Peterson. or Jeremy Jones, Or Omari Lawrence. I really hope they didn't foresse Sprads as a lead guard type, there were some murmurings about that.

Lack of foresight or poor scouting? It's really got to be 1 or of the other.



Yeah, it was poor scouting on Russell.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 14, 2012, 11:42:09 AM

When we are starting a freshman at point guard and a senior and junior at the posts, it makes sense to address the post first. Angel will be much better next season and Spradling will only be a junior. Complain when Frank doesn't recruit a guard in 2013.

I'm confused.  What does recruiting a PG in 2013 that have to do with not recruiting a high impact point guard in the last two classes?

Notice that the the top three teams in the Big XII all have upperclassmen at the point.  It's not a coincidence.

This isn't about Angel.  This is about recruiting failures and roster management having forced us into relying solely on a true freshman when we shouldn't be.




Frank has recruited Angel, Spradling, and Irving in the last three classes. Angel is going to be very good. Spradling and Irving are both solid role players.

Sprads and Tay are solid role players, we all know that, that's not being debated. A lot of us see potential in Angel and hope he can consistently get better throughout his career, but it's pretty clear he's not a primetime, lead guard yet.

The issue is, why don't we have that difference making lead guard on our roster this year? Hindsight is always 20/20 but a lot of us are lamenting the fact that our staff did not ID the need to have a dynamic, difference making guard either already in the system or ready to make an immediate impact for the 11/12 team.

Obviously, those types of players are highly coveted throughout the country and aren't just on any random street corner, but it's our staff's job to ID those kids early and convince hopefully 1 at least to come play ball for the KSU Cats.

Not saying there isn't hope for the future, because I believe there is, but it would have been ideal to establish more continuity for the program this year through better recruiting and roster management that took place in the past.

The staff probably thought they had that with Nick Russell. He ended up being a bust. That is why we are starting a freshman this year. I'm happy with what our guard situation will be next year, though.

Which goes directly to poor scouting on the staff's part.

You could also look at Devon Peterson. or Jeremy Jones, Or Omari Lawrence. I really hope they didn't foresse Sprads as a lead guard type, there were some murmurings about that.

Lack of foresight or poor scouting? It's really got to be 1 or of the other.



Sometimes you can have great scouting and foresight and just fail to get the players you want. They wanted Alec Burks over Nick Russell, so I'd say there was great scouting but a failure to close the deal. They were pretty involved with Kenny Boynton very early, but failed to close the deal. I already mentioned Rosario and Fontan who were fairly attainable and would have been huge.

The staff has shown to be pretty good at scouting HS players and transfers - it's landing the players that's the problem. (I will agree their late Juco signees have been uniformly awful, but late spring recruiting will probably not be a strong suit for KSU for a long time).
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kitten_mittons on February 14, 2012, 11:42:30 AM
Mods, ban everyone in this thread that seems mad that Spradling (so.) and Rodriguez (fr.) aren't as good as Jake and Denis were as seniors.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kougar24 on February 14, 2012, 11:43:44 AM
That's why I blamed frank.  We won't be any better next year either since we didn't land a guard this year. 

Fair enough, but you don't think any of our guards will get better? Blame Frank for Franking, but guys he keeps around tend to get better.

Do they?
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Cartierfor3 on February 14, 2012, 11:47:51 AM
That's why I blamed frank.  We won't be any better next year either since we didn't land a guard this year. 

Fair enough, but you don't think any of our guards will get better? Blame Frank for Franking, but guys he keeps around tend to get better.

Do they?

Yes.  Usually.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 14, 2012, 11:49:29 AM
That's why I blamed frank.  We won't be any better next year either since we didn't land a guard this year. 

Fair enough, but you don't think any of our guards will get better? Blame Frank for Franking, but guys he keeps around tend to get better.

Do they?

Do you just not watch the games or something?
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kougar24 on February 14, 2012, 11:50:22 AM
That's why I blamed frank.  We won't be any better next year either since we didn't land a guard this year. 

Fair enough, but you don't think any of our guards will get better? Blame Frank for Franking, but guys he keeps around tend to get better.

Do they?

Yes.  Usually.

Spradling? Southwell? Jamar (yes, great game last night, expect 5 shitty games coming up)? JO? Even Frank apparently doesn't think 'Tay has improved his stock at all.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Underdog Wildcat on February 14, 2012, 11:50:40 AM

When we are starting a freshman at point guard and a senior and junior at the posts, it makes sense to address the post first. Angel will be much better next season and Spradling will only be a junior. Complain when Frank doesn't recruit a guard in 2013.

I'm confused.  What does recruiting a PG in 2013 that have to do with not recruiting a high impact point guard in the last two classes?

Notice that the the top three teams in the Big XII all have upperclassmen at the point.  It's not a coincidence.

This isn't about Angel.  This is about recruiting failures and roster management having forced us into relying solely on a true freshman when we shouldn't be.




Frank has recruited Angel, Spradling, and Irving in the last three classes. Angel is going to be very good. Spradling and Irving are both solid role players.

Sprads and Tay are solid role players, we all know that, that's not being debated. A lot of us see potential in Angel and hope he can consistently get better throughout his career, but it's pretty clear he's not a primetime, lead guard yet.

The issue is, why don't we have that difference making lead guard on our roster this year? Hindsight is always 20/20 but a lot of us are lamenting the fact that our staff did not ID the need to have a dynamic, difference making guard either already in the system or ready to make an immediate impact for the 11/12 team.

Obviously, those types of players are highly coveted throughout the country and aren't just on any random street corner, but it's our staff's job to ID those kids early and convince hopefully 1 at least to come play ball for the KSU Cats.

Not saying there isn't hope for the future, because I believe there is, but it would have been ideal to establish more continuity for the program this year through better recruiting and roster management that took place in the past.

The staff probably thought they had that with Nick Russell. He ended up being a bust. That is why we are starting a freshman this year. I'm happy with what our guard situation will be next year, though.

Which goes directly to poor scouting on the staff's part.

You could also look at Devon Peterson. or Jeremy Jones, Or Omari Lawrence. I really hope they didn't foresse Sprads as a lead guard type, there were some murmurings about that.

Lack of foresight or poor scouting? It's really got to be 1 or of the other.



Sometimes you can have great scouting and foresight and just fail to get the players you want. They wanted Alec Burks over Nick Russell, so I'd say there was great scouting but a failure to close the deal. They were pretty involved with Kenny Boynton very early, but failed to close the deal. I already mentioned Rosario and Fontan who were fairly attainable and would have been huge.

The staff has shown to be pretty good at scouting HS players and transfers - it's landing the players that's the problem. (I will agree their late Juco signees have been uniformly awful, but late spring recruiting will probably not be a strong suit for KSU for a long time).

I'm thinking when it came right down to it last Spring, and our staff HAD to have known PG was a concern, we went out and got Jeremy Jones, a potentially decent role player as an instant offense type but not a full time high major PG by any means.

I guess I can see the point of saying we just had a lot of bad luck leading up to that situation, but once in it, not much effort was made to improve it.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kso_FAN on February 14, 2012, 11:51:19 AM
That's why I blamed frank.  We won't be any better next year either since we didn't land a guard this year.  

Fair enough, but you don't think any of our guards will get better? Blame Frank for Franking, but guys he keeps around tend to get better.

Do they?

Clemente got better. Pullen got better. Tay has gotten better. McGruder is better. JO is better. Jamar... is Jamar. Sprads has gotten better in some ways, but his shooting has regressed this year, no doubt.

I have no doubt that Angel, Gip, and Diaz can and will all get better too. And I think Sprads will have a solid JR bounce back season.

I certainly don't think there are many guys that have gotten worse or regressed.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: catzacker on February 14, 2012, 11:51:51 AM
Sometimes you can have great scouting and foresight and just fail to get the players you want. They wanted Alec Burks over Nick Russell, so I'd say there was great scouting but a failure to close the deal. They were pretty involved with Kenny Boynton very early, but failed to close the deal. I already mentioned Rosario and Fontan who were fairly attainable and would have been huge.

The staff has shown to be pretty good at scouting HS players and transfers - it's landing the players that's the problem. (I will agree their late Juco signees have been uniformly awful, but late spring recruiting will probably not be a strong suit for KSU for a long time).

I agree that this staff's hs evals are good (probably even say really good), however the closing part is kind of a big deal.  the players we end(ed) up with because we couldn't close the deal are why we are in the position we're in.  coupled with awful juco recruiting.  
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 14, 2012, 11:53:20 AM
That's why I blamed frank.  We won't be any better next year either since we didn't land a guard this year. 

Fair enough, but you don't think any of our guards will get better? Blame Frank for Franking, but guys he keeps around tend to get better.

Do they?

Yes.  Usually.

Spradling? Southwell? Jamar (yes, great game last night, expect 5 shitty games coming up)? JO? Even Frank apparently doesn't think 'Tay has improved his stock at all.

All of those players are much better than they were when they got here, not to mention you are trying to use current sophomores to say that our players don't improve.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kougar24 on February 14, 2012, 11:53:27 AM
That's why I blamed frank.  We won't be any better next year either since we didn't land a guard this year. 

Fair enough, but you don't think any of our guards will get better? Blame Frank for Franking, but guys he keeps around tend to get better.

Do they?

Clemente got better. Pullen got better. Tay has gotten better. McGruder is better. JO is better. Jamar... is Jamar. Sprads has gotten better in some ways, but his shooting has regressed this year, no doubt.

I have no doubt that Angel, Gip, and Diaz can and will all get better too. And I think Sprads will have a solid JR bounce back season.

I certainly don't think there are many guys that have gotten worse or regressed.

Spradling has regressed, beyond just shooting. If 'Tay has gotten better, we certainly aren't cashing in on that, are we? JO? GMAFB. Maybe "Jamar is Jamar" because Frank failed to improve him.

I think McGruder is the same, just has more of a role without Pullz.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kso_FAN on February 14, 2012, 11:59:46 AM
Spradling has regressed, beyond just shooting. If 'Tay has gotten better, we certainly aren't cashing in on that, are we? JO? GMAFB. Maybe "Jamar is Jamar" because Frank failed to improve him.

I think McGruder is the same, just has more of a role without Pullz.

Please, tell me how Sprads has regressed in other ways.

Tay is going through a Frankhouse phase. He was really pretty solid in Big 12 play until the last 4 games and somehow Southwell moved into his minutes. I think after this last game we'll go back to seeing more of Tay, but he's been a solid 20 minute player most of this season.

And I think its fair to say Jamar is Jamar. I think there is only so much that can be done with certain players and Frand loves what he brings.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: OregonSmock on February 14, 2012, 12:02:56 PM
Spradling has regressed, beyond just shooting. If 'Tay has gotten better, we certainly aren't cashing in on that, are we? JO? GMAFB. Maybe "Jamar is Jamar" because Frank failed to improve him.

I think McGruder is the same, just has more of a role without Pullz.

Please, tell me how Sprads has regressed in other ways.

Tay is going through a Frankhouse phase. He was really pretty solid in Big 12 play until the last 4 games and somehow Southwell moved into his minutes. I think after this last game we'll go back to seeing more of Tay, but he's been a solid 20 minute player most of this season.

And I think its fair to say Jamar is Jamar. I think there is only so much that can be done with certain players and Frand loves what he brings.



Danny Manning would have had Jamar Samuels in the NBA by now.  Your coaches are terrible at developing big men. 
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kso_FAN on February 14, 2012, 12:03:57 PM
Danny Manning would have had Jamar Samuels in the NBA by now.  Your coaches are terrible at developing big men. 

Well, he is the big man whisperer.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kougar24 on February 14, 2012, 12:04:45 PM
Spradling has regressed, beyond just shooting. If 'Tay has gotten better, we certainly aren't cashing in on that, are we? JO? GMAFB. Maybe "Jamar is Jamar" because Frank failed to improve him.

I think McGruder is the same, just has more of a role without Pullz.

Please, tell me how Sprads has regressed in other ways. 

A% down.
TO% up.

And then of course there is his shooting, which is worse in every measurable way.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kougar24 on February 14, 2012, 12:05:53 PM
It's fair to say Jamar is Jamar because it's his 4th year and we've seen it.

But there is no reason to think he would have just "been Jamar" with a different staff.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: SkinnyBenny on February 14, 2012, 12:07:10 PM
It's fair to say Jamar is Jamar because it's his 4th year and we've seen it.

But there is no reason to think he would have just "been Jamar" with a different staff.

Actually gonna agree with OregonHawk on his most recent post.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: catzacker on February 14, 2012, 12:07:56 PM
Spradling has regressed, beyond just shooting. If 'Tay has gotten better, we certainly aren't cashing in on that, are we? JO? GMAFB. Maybe "Jamar is Jamar" because Frank failed to improve him.

I think McGruder is the same, just has more of a role without Pullz.

Please, tell me how Sprads has regressed in other ways.

Tay is going through a Frankhouse phase. He was really pretty solid in Big 12 play until the last 4 games and somehow Southwell moved into his minutes. I think after this last game we'll go back to seeing more of Tay, but he's been a solid 20 minute player most of this season.

And I think its fair to say Jamar is Jamar. I think there is only so much that can be done with certain players and Frand loves what he brings.



Danny Manning would have had Jamar Samuels in the NBA by now.  Your coaches are terrible at developing big men. 

yeah, Danny's done a fanstic job with the #29 (marcus), #49 (the other morris), # 31 (nmt), and # 36 (jeffrey) players in their respective classes.  It's a wonder how those top 30/50 kids ever made it to the NBA.

Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 14, 2012, 12:10:21 PM
I'm thinking when it came right down to it last Spring, and our staff HAD to have known PG was a concern, we went out and got Jeremy Jones, a potentially decent role player as an instant offense type but not a full time high major PG by any means.

I guess I can see the point of saying we just had a lot of bad luck leading up to that situation, but once in it, not much effort was made to improve it.

I don't think it was "bad luck" at all. And I think it goes back further than just last spring. By the time you get to spring it's too late. The problem was Myles and Omari instead of Rosario or Fontan more than it was Jones, IMO. So I pretty much agree with everything you're saying, just disagree on the timeline. I also think I'm a little more comfortable with where we are. We still have a really good shot at the tourney. I don't think a year like that after losing an All League PG and a very solid low post scorer is unreasonable at this point.


I agree that this staff's hs evals are good (probably even say really good), however the closing part is kind of a big deal.  the players we end(ed) up with because we couldn't close the deal are why we are in the position we're in.  coupled with awful juco recruiting.  

Thanks for the lesson on why closing is important. I'd never considered that.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kso_FAN on February 14, 2012, 12:10:51 PM
Spradling has regressed, beyond just shooting. If 'Tay has gotten better, we certainly aren't cashing in on that, are we? JO? GMAFB. Maybe "Jamar is Jamar" because Frank failed to improve him.

I think McGruder is the same, just has more of a role without Pullz.

Please, tell me how Sprads has regressed in other ways.  

A% down.
TO% up.

And then of course there is his shooting, which is worse in every measurable way.

Yeah, those numbers are down, but they aren't alarming to me.

I think the biggest thing Will has adjusted with is much more responsibility defensively. He is being asked to guard much better players this year and I think fatigue is catching him. I think he can work through it and be better next year.

No doubt, the regression shooting has been more dramatic than I anticipated and is disappointing.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Mixed-Nutz on February 14, 2012, 12:13:07 PM
Micheal Dixon  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: nicname on February 14, 2012, 12:13:15 PM
Danny Manning would have had Jamar Samuels in the NBA by now.  Your coaches are terrible at developing big men. 

Well, he is the big man whisperer.

eff this.  Danny makes gold bricks out of Gold boullion.   I'll give him credit for recruiting elite bigs but for developing them, psst, they were all badasses to begin with.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kougar24 on February 14, 2012, 12:14:03 PM
Spradling has regressed, beyond just shooting. If 'Tay has gotten better, we certainly aren't cashing in on that, are we? JO? GMAFB. Maybe "Jamar is Jamar" because Frank failed to improve him.

I think McGruder is the same, just has more of a role without Pullz.

Please, tell me how Sprads has regressed in other ways. 

A% down.
TO% up.

And then of course there is his shooting, which is worse in every measurable way.

Yeah, those numbers are down, but they aren't alarming to me.

I think the biggest thing Will has adjusted with is much more responsibility defensively. He is being asked to guard much better players this year and I think fatigue is catching him. I think he can work through it and be better next year.

No doubt, the regression shooting has been more dramatic than I anticipated and is disappointing.

Listen, I'm still a Frankite through and through, but I think there is reason for concern for the next couple years.

Pullen's improvement was awesome, naturally, but I don't think you can point to anyone else and prove marked development / improvement. That is concerning to me.

But couldn't 'that be a failing of Underwood or Figger or whomever?
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 14, 2012, 12:16:21 PM
Spradling has regressed, beyond just shooting. If 'Tay has gotten better, we certainly aren't cashing in on that, are we? JO? GMAFB. Maybe "Jamar is Jamar" because Frank failed to improve him.

I think McGruder is the same, just has more of a role without Pullz.

Please, tell me how Sprads has regressed in other ways. 

A% down.
TO% up.

And then of course there is his shooting, which is worse in every measurable way.

um, his Assist% is up (15.6 to 16.9) and TO% is down (21.2 to 18.0).  FTR has gone from 40.4 to 44.4.  Last year he shot 37% from three, this year he has shot 36.4 while taking a lot more. His twos are way lower, but pretty much everything else has improved or stayed about the same.

In comparison, freshman Pullen to sophomore Pullen went from 30% to 33% from three, 49.6% to 43.6% from two, had his assist % go from 25.1 to 21.4, his FTR go from 34.2 to 31.0, and didn't improve his turnovers.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: OregonSmock on February 14, 2012, 12:17:09 PM
Danny Manning would have had Jamar Samuels in the NBA by now.  Your coaches are terrible at developing big men. 

Well, he is the big man whisperer.

eff this.  Danny makes gold bricks out of Gold boullion.   I'll give him credit for recruiting elite bigs but for developing them, psst, they were all badasses to begin with.



 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:


How's Wally Judge doing these days?
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Mixed-Nutz on February 14, 2012, 12:17:45 PM
Ku system inflates post numbers...puts them in good positions, Danny is a good bigs coach but not head a shoulders above anybody else on developing them, no one is, Best argument for him is he is very good evaluator.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: catzacker on February 14, 2012, 12:18:08 PM
I'm thinking when it came right down to it last Spring, and our staff HAD to have known PG was a concern, we went out and got Jeremy Jones, a potentially decent role player as an instant offense type but not a full time high major PG by any means.

I guess I can see the point of saying we just had a lot of bad luck leading up to that situation, but once in it, not much effort was made to improve it.

I don't think it was "bad luck" at all. And I think it goes back further than just last spring. By the time you get to spring it's too late. The problem was Myles and Omari instead of Rosario or Fontan more than it was Jones, IMO. So I pretty much agree with everything you're saying, just disagree on the timeline. I also think I'm a little more comfortable with where we are. We still have a really good shot at the tourney. I don't think a year like that after losing an All League PG and a very solid low post scorer is unreasonable at this point.


I agree that this staff's hs evals are good (probably even say really good), however the closing part is kind of a big deal.  the players we end(ed) up with because we couldn't close the deal are why we are in the position we're in.  coupled with awful juco recruiting.  

Thanks for the lesson on why closing is important. I'd never considered that.

neither has frank, apparently.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kougar24 on February 14, 2012, 12:18:32 PM
Spradling has regressed, beyond just shooting. If 'Tay has gotten better, we certainly aren't cashing in on that, are we? JO? GMAFB. Maybe "Jamar is Jamar" because Frank failed to improve him.

I think McGruder is the same, just has more of a role without Pullz.

Please, tell me how Sprads has regressed in other ways. 

A% down.
TO% up.

And then of course there is his shooting, which is worse in every measurable way.

um, his Assist% is up (15.6 to 16.9) and TO% is down (21.2 to 18.0). Last year he shot 37% from three, this year he has shot 36.4 while taking a lot more. His twos are way lower, but pretty much everything else has improved or stayed about the same.

In comparison, freshman Pullen to sophomore Pullen went from 30% to 33% from three, 49.6% to 43.6% from two, had his assist % go from 25.1 to 21.4, his FTR go from 34.2 to 31.0, and didn't improve his turnovers.

Conf. games only. Don't care about what he did in December.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: MakeItRain on February 14, 2012, 12:21:25 PM
It's fair to say Jamar is Jamar because it's his 4th year and we've seen it.

But there is no reason to think he would have just "been Jamar" with a different staff.

Actually gonna agree with OregonHawk on his most recent post.

That Jamar would/could have been a NBA big?  My god Beems was being facetious and you are really stupid if you think Jamar could be an NBA big under any circumstance
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: catzacker on February 14, 2012, 12:23:26 PM
Danny Manning would have had Jamar Samuels in the NBA by now.  Your coaches are terrible at developing big men. 

Well, he is the big man whisperer.

eff this.  Danny makes gold bricks out of Gold boullion.   I'll give him credit for recruiting elite bigs but for developing them, psst, they were all badasses to begin with.



 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:


How's Wally Judge doing these days?

I hear he's hanging out with Micah Downs.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: OregonSmock on February 14, 2012, 12:25:07 PM
Doug Gottlieb just validated my point on Petro's show.  Sorry, grapes.  You lose (again). 
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Underdog Wildcat on February 14, 2012, 12:26:23 PM
Quote from: michigancat
And I think it goes back further than just last spring. By the time you get to spring it's too late.

Which is exactly why I originally said, it's a tough situation 3 years in the making.

And I realize he's probably the exception more than the rule, but Pierre Jackson was available last Spring.

But probably LOL at trying to out-recruit Baylor.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 14, 2012, 12:26:53 PM
Spradling has regressed, beyond just shooting. If 'Tay has gotten better, we certainly aren't cashing in on that, are we? JO? GMAFB. Maybe "Jamar is Jamar" because Frank failed to improve him.

I think McGruder is the same, just has more of a role without Pullz.

Please, tell me how Sprads has regressed in other ways.  

A% down.
TO% up.

And then of course there is his shooting, which is worse in every measurable way.

um, his Assist% is up (15.6 to 16.9) and TO% is down (21.2 to 18.0). Last year he shot 37% from three, this year he has shot 36.4 while taking a lot more. His twos are way lower, but pretty much everything else has improved or stayed about the same.

In comparison, freshman Pullen to sophomore Pullen went from 30% to 33% from three, 49.6% to 43.6% from two, had his assist % go from 25.1 to 21.4, his FTR go from 34.2 to 31.0, and didn't improve his turnovers.

Conf. games only. Don't care about what he did in December.

Gotcha.

Compare:

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/kansas-state/jacob-pullen?per_game=1&tempo_neutral=1&totals=1&plusminus=1&game_type=2&chart1=points_avg&chart2=minutes_avg&chart3=fg_pct
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kso_FAN on February 14, 2012, 12:27:26 PM
Conf. games only. Don't care about what he did in December.

If you are going to do that, you'll find that Pullen's "regression" from his FR to SO year in conf only stats was similar (if not worse) in nearly every single area you are comparing. I'm not saying WIll will be Pullen, but sophmore guards with increased roles tend to have some regressions in their numbers.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 14, 2012, 12:28:30 PM
Conf. games only. Don't care about what he did in December.

If you are going to do that, you'll find that Pullen's "regression" from his FR to SO year in conf only stats was similar (if not worse) in nearly every single area you are comparing. I'm not saying WIll will be Pullen, but sophmore guards with increased roles tend to have some regressions in their numbers.

I think what kougs is trying to say is that Frank's players don't improve, and Pullen and Spradling are both perfect examples of that.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Cire on February 14, 2012, 12:28:58 PM
seff is very good at hiding/limiting his talent early so that they don't blow up.  It's unforgivable that trob and withey didn't play more last year.  They didn't become studs over the summer.
Spradling has regressed, beyond just shooting. If 'Tay has gotten better, we certainly aren't cashing in on that, are we? JO? GMAFB. Maybe "Jamar is Jamar" because Frank failed to improve him.

I think McGruder is the same, just has more of a role without Pullz.

Please, tell me how Sprads has regressed in other ways.

Tay is going through a Frankhouse phase. He was really pretty solid in Big 12 play until the last 4 games and somehow Southwell moved into his minutes. I think after this last game we'll go back to seeing more of Tay, but he's been a solid 20 minute player most of this season.

And I think its fair to say Jamar is Jamar. I think there is only so much that can be done with certain players and Frand loves what he brings.



Danny Manning would have had Jamar Samuels in the NBA by now.  Your coaches are terrible at developing big men.  

yeah, Danny's done a fanstic job with the #29 (marcus), #49 (the other morris), # 31 (nmt), and # 36 (jeffrey) players in their respective classes.  It's a wonder how those top 30/50 kids ever made it to the NBA.


Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 14, 2012, 12:36:27 PM
Quote from: michigancat
And I think it goes back further than just last spring. By the time you get to spring it's too late.

Which is exactly why I originally said, it's a tough situation 3 years in the making.

And I realize he's probably the exception more than the rule, but Pierre Jackson was available last Spring.

But probably LOL at trying to out-recruit Baylor.

Disclaimer: this is not an excuse. But I think having Pullen hurt PG recruiting while he was here. It was pretty evident that he wasn't going to give up his spot.

And how many impact Juco PG's are there available in any given spring?
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: MakeItRain on February 14, 2012, 12:40:01 PM
Doug Gottlieb just validated my point on Petro's show.  Sorry, grapes.  You lose (again). 

So mean, its like internet terrorism
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kougar24 on February 14, 2012, 12:49:31 PM
Conf. games only. Don't care about what he did in December.

If you are going to do that, you'll find that Pullen's "regression" from his FR to SO year in conf only stats was similar (if not worse) in nearly every single area you are comparing. I'm not saying WIll will be Pullen, but sophmore guards with increased roles tend to have some regressions in their numbers.

Sure, I'll buy the sophomore slump. Then show me all the improvement beyond soph year guys not named Pullen have made under Frank.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: catzacker on February 14, 2012, 12:54:55 PM
Conf. games only. Don't care about what he did in December.

If you are going to do that, you'll find that Pullen's "regression" from his FR to SO year in conf only stats was similar (if not worse) in nearly every single area you are comparing. I'm not saying WIll will be Pullen, but sophmore guards with increased roles tend to have some regressions in their numbers.

Sure, I'll buy the sophomore slump. Then show me all the improvement beyond soph year guys not named Pullen have made under Frank.

It’s tough to show/give examples of development into your jr and senior years when the roster gets frank’d.  Assuming jamar makes it a few more weeks, he and Pullen the only Fr to Sr players under Martin?  (which is a bit misleading because frank is just a 5th year coach, so he’s only had 2 classes that would reach full maturity – though I don’t believe a juco player has made it 2 years or full term under frank either). 
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kso_FAN on February 14, 2012, 12:57:30 PM
Conf. games only. Don't care about what he did in December.

If you are going to do that, you'll find that Pullen's "regression" from his FR to SO year in conf only stats was similar (if not worse) in nearly every single area you are comparing. I'm not saying WIll will be Pullen, but sophmore guards with increased roles tend to have some regressions in their numbers.

Sure, I'll buy the sophomore slump. Then show me all the improvement beyond soph year guys not named Pullen have made under Frank.

It’s tough to show/give examples of development into your jr and senior years when the roster gets frank’d.  Assuming jamar makes it a few more weeks, he and Pullen the only Fr to Sr players under Martin?  (which is a bit misleading because frank is just a 5th year coach, so he’s only had 2 classes that would reach full maturity – though I don’t believe a juco player has made it 2 years or full term under frank either). 

Tay is on a bad stretch right now, but he's better this year in nearly every category.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 14, 2012, 12:58:28 PM
Conf. games only. Don't care about what he did in December.

If you are going to do that, you'll find that Pullen's "regression" from his FR to SO year in conf only stats was similar (if not worse) in nearly every single area you are comparing. I'm not saying WIll will be Pullen, but sophmore guards with increased roles tend to have some regressions in their numbers.

Sure, I'll buy the sophomore slump. Then show me all the improvement beyond soph year guys not named Pullen have made under Frank.

It’s tough to show/give examples of development into your jr and senior years when the roster gets frank’d.  Assuming jamar makes it a few more weeks, he and Pullen the only Fr to Sr players under Martin?  (which is a bit misleading because frank is just a 5th year coach, so he’s only had 2 classes that would reach full maturity – though I don’t believe a juco player has made it 2 years or full term under frank either). 

Tay is on a bad stretch right now, but he's better this year in nearly every category.

Some may say that Rodney has improved.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: pissclams on February 14, 2012, 12:59:53 PM
FRANK DOESN'T DEVELOP HIS PLAYERS!



grrr......grrr......grrr!
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kougar24 on February 14, 2012, 01:01:55 PM
Conf. games only. Don't care about what he did in December.

If you are going to do that, you'll find that Pullen's "regression" from his FR to SO year in conf only stats was similar (if not worse) in nearly every single area you are comparing. I'm not saying WIll will be Pullen, but sophmore guards with increased roles tend to have some regressions in their numbers.

Sure, I'll buy the sophomore slump. Then show me all the improvement beyond soph year guys not named Pullen have made under Frank.

It’s tough to show/give examples of development into your jr and senior years when the roster gets frank’d.  Assuming jamar makes it a few more weeks, he and Pullen the only Fr to Sr players under Martin?  (which is a bit misleading because frank is just a 5th year coach, so he’s only had 2 classes that would reach full maturity – though I don’t believe a juco player has made it 2 years or full term under frank either). 

Tay is on a bad stretch right now, but he's better this year in nearly every category.

I already said 'Tay has improved, but his PT is going to nil, despite the fact that he isn't really on a "bad stretch" lately.

McGruder is better in some areas, worse in others.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 14, 2012, 01:02:55 PM
Some may say that Rodney has improved.

Kougs is not one of these people.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Underdog Wildcat on February 14, 2012, 01:04:30 PM
Quote from: michigancat
And I think it goes back further than just last spring. By the time you get to spring it's too late.

Which is exactly why I originally said, it's a tough situation 3 years in the making.

And I realize he's probably the exception more than the rule, but Pierre Jackson was available last Spring.

But probably LOL at trying to out-recruit Baylor.

Disclaimer: this is not an excuse. But I think having Pullen hurt PG recruiting while he was here. It was pretty evident that he wasn't going to give up his spot.

And how many impact Juco PG's are there available in any given spring?

Probably around 2 or 3.

Sam Grooms isn't really anything special but he outplayed pretty much all of our guards in our games against OU.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kougar24 on February 14, 2012, 01:05:07 PM
Some may say that Rodney has improved.

Kougs is not one of these people.

Not necessarily true. Like I said, depends on what area you're looking at.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 14, 2012, 01:07:16 PM
Some may say that Rodney has improved.

Kougs is not one of these people.

Not necessarily true. Like I said, depends on what area you're looking at.

DEPENDS ON WHAT AREA YOU'RE LOOKING AT!
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kso_FAN on February 14, 2012, 01:09:15 PM
I already said 'Tay has improved, but his PT is going to nil, despite the fact that he isn't really on a "bad stretch" lately.

Two games. And Tay has been around Frank plenty, I'm sure he knows exactly why he isn't playing and I expect him to respond well.

And I don't know if you really believe the arguments you are trying to create or if you are just BBSing around.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 14, 2012, 01:17:10 PM
Spradling has regressed, beyond just shooting. If 'Tay has gotten better, we certainly aren't cashing in on that, are we? JO? GMAFB. Maybe "Jamar is Jamar" because Frank failed to improve him.

I think McGruder is the same, just has more of a role without Pullz.

Please, tell me how Sprads has regressed in other ways. 

A% down.
TO% up.

And then of course there is his shooting, which is worse in every measurable way.

Yeah, those numbers are down, but they aren't alarming to me.

I think the biggest thing Will has adjusted with is much more responsibility defensively. He is being asked to guard much better players this year and I think fatigue is catching him. I think he can work through it and be better next year.

No doubt, the regression shooting has been more dramatic than I anticipated and is disappointing.

Listen, I'm still a Frankite through and through, but I think there is reason for concern for the next couple years.

Pullen's improvement was awesome, naturally, but I don't think you can point to anyone else and prove marked development / improvement. That is concerning to me.

But couldn't 'that be a failing of Underwood or Figger or whomever?

Colon, JO, Irving, McGruder, Kent, and Clemente all showed major improvement under Martin's staff.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kitten_mittons on February 14, 2012, 01:17:56 PM
Curtis Kelly.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: nicname on February 14, 2012, 01:20:35 PM
Conf. games only. Don't care about what he did in December.

If you are going to do that, you'll find that Pullen's "regression" from his FR to SO year in conf only stats was similar (if not worse) in nearly every single area you are comparing. I'm not saying WIll will be Pullen, but sophmore guards with increased roles tend to have some regressions in their numbers.

Sure, I'll buy the sophomore slump. Then show me all the improvement beyond soph year guys not named Pullen have made under Frank.

It’s tough to show/give examples of development into your jr and senior years when the roster gets frank’d.  Assuming jamar makes it a few more weeks, he and Pullen the only Fr to Sr players under Martin?  (which is a bit misleading because frank is just a 5th year coach, so he’s only had 2 classes that would reach full maturity – though I don’t believe a juco player has made it 2 years or full term under frank either). 

Tay is on a bad stretch right now, but he's better this year in nearly every category.

I already said 'Tay has improved, but his PT is going to nil, despite the fact that he isn't really on a "bad stretch" lately.

McGruder is better in some areas, worse in others.

I wish Tay played more.  He seems to do some pretty good things whenever he is in the game.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Pett on February 14, 2012, 01:21:24 PM
Conf. games only. Don't care about what he did in December.

If you are going to do that, you'll find that Pullen's "regression" from his FR to SO year in conf only stats was similar (if not worse) in nearly every single area you are comparing. I'm not saying WIll will be Pullen, but sophmore guards with increased roles tend to have some regressions in their numbers.

Sure, I'll buy the sophomore slump. Then show me all the improvement beyond soph year guys not named Pullen have made under Frank.

It’s tough to show/give examples of development into your jr and senior years when the roster gets frank’d.  Assuming jamar makes it a few more weeks, he and Pullen the only Fr to Sr players under Martin?  (which is a bit misleading because frank is just a 5th year coach, so he’s only had 2 classes that would reach full maturity – though I don’t believe a juco player has made it 2 years or full term under frank either). 

Tay is on a bad stretch right now, but he's better this year in nearly every category.

I already said 'Tay has improved, but his PT is going to nil, despite the fact that he isn't really on a "bad stretch" lately.

McGruder is better in some areas, worse in others.

I wish Tay played more.  He seems to do some pretty good things whenever he is in the game.

Agreed, Tay's defense is always there. Frank hating Irving last night cost us the game. Eff Angel.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: nicname on February 14, 2012, 01:22:35 PM
Spradling has regressed, beyond just shooting. If 'Tay has gotten better, we certainly aren't cashing in on that, are we? JO? GMAFB. Maybe "Jamar is Jamar" because Frank failed to improve him.

I think McGruder is the same, just has more of a role without Pullz.

Please, tell me how Sprads has regressed in other ways. 

A% down.
TO% up.

And then of course there is his shooting, which is worse in every measurable way.

Yeah, those numbers are down, but they aren't alarming to me.

I think the biggest thing Will has adjusted with is much more responsibility defensively. He is being asked to guard much better players this year and I think fatigue is catching him. I think he can work through it and be better next year.

No doubt, the regression shooting has been more dramatic than I anticipated and is disappointing.

Listen, I'm still a Frankite through and through, but I think there is reason for concern for the next couple years.

Pullen's improvement was awesome, naturally, but I don't think you can point to anyone else and prove marked development / improvement. That is concerning to me.

But couldn't 'that be a failing of Underwood or Figger or whomever?

Colon, JO, Irving, McGruder, Kent, and Clemente all showed major improvement under Martin's staff.

Great post. Esp pulling Colon and Kent out like that.  How easily some forget how bad Luis was as a freshman, not to mention DK.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kougar24 on February 14, 2012, 02:06:47 PM
I already said 'Tay has improved, but his PT is going to nil, despite the fact that he isn't really on a "bad stretch" lately.

Two games. And Tay has been around Frank plenty, I'm sure he knows exactly why he isn't playing and I expect him to respond well.

And I don't know if you really believe the arguments you are trying to create or if you are just BBSing around.

Four.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kso_FAN on February 14, 2012, 02:09:51 PM
I already said 'Tay has improved, but his PT is going to nil, despite the fact that he isn't really on a "bad stretch" lately.

Two games. And Tay has been around Frank plenty, I'm sure he knows exactly why he isn't playing and I expect him to respond well.

And I don't know if you really believe the arguments you are trying to create or if you are just BBSing around.

Four.

aTm and Tech had drops in PT, but not as dramatic as UT and KU.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kougar24 on February 14, 2012, 02:11:07 PM
I already said 'Tay has improved, but his PT is going to nil, despite the fact that he isn't really on a "bad stretch" lately.

Two games. And Tay has been around Frank plenty, I'm sure he knows exactly why he isn't playing and I expect him to respond well.

And I don't know if you really believe the arguments you are trying to create or if you are just BBSing around.

Four.

aTm and Tech had drops in PT, but not as dramatic as UT and KU.

It was the beginning of the downward trend.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kougar24 on February 14, 2012, 02:17:04 PM
In conference play...

Highest eFG% among guards:
Martavious Irving

Highest 3PT%:
Martavious Irving

:dunno:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 14, 2012, 02:18:44 PM
In conference play...

Highest eFG% among guards:
Martavious Irving

Highest 3PT%:
Martavious Irving

:dunno:

Sit McGruder, play Tay!
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kougar24 on February 14, 2012, 02:21:27 PM
In conference play...

Highest eFG% among guards:
Martavious Irving

Highest 3PT%:
Martavious Irving

:dunno:

Sit McGruder, play Tay!

Don't be respected. Southwell and Spradling have plenty to give.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 14, 2012, 02:26:10 PM
In conference play...

Highest eFG% among guards:
Martavious Irving

Highest 3PT%:
Martavious Irving

:dunno:

Sit McGruder, play Tay!

Don't be respected. Southwell and Spradling have plenty to give.

Do they?
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kougar24 on February 14, 2012, 02:28:57 PM
In conference play...

Highest eFG% among guards:
Martavious Irving

Highest 3PT%:
Martavious Irving

:dunno:

Sit McGruder, play Tay!

Don't be respected. Southwell and Spradling have plenty to give.

Do they?

They do.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kso_FAN on February 14, 2012, 02:30:29 PM
In conference play...

Highest eFG% among guards:
Martavious Irving

Highest 3PT%:
Martavious Irving

:dunno:

Sit McGruder, play Tay!

Don't be respected. Southwell and Spradling have plenty to give.

Do they?

They do.

Will will play 30 minutes minimum every game, you know this. But yeah on Southy (at least the last few games).
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Cire on February 14, 2012, 02:35:33 PM
Sw is dom without the defense, fouls, and rebounding. 
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kso_FAN on February 14, 2012, 02:38:48 PM
Sw is dom without the defense, fouls, and rebounding.

Slightly better mid range jumper. Maybe.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: SdK on February 14, 2012, 02:43:30 PM
Overall, I think Angel is the better player between him and Tay. Of course. When Tay plays, I don't ever feel there are glaring mistakes, which there were plenty for Angel last night. I would have liked to see Tay get more PT.


I know it was probably just my perception, but it seemed like Angel would eff up, get  taken out, then as soon as the next dead ball, he was back in again. I didn't rough ridin' get it, didn't get it at all. This probably took away my ability to look at his game objectively. I just know that if Tay had played more and we lost, I would not have been thinking if Angel had played more we would have won.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 14, 2012, 03:18:51 PM
Overall, I think Angel is the better player between him and Tay. Of course. When Tay plays, I don't ever feel there are glaring mistakes, which there were plenty for Angel last night. I would have liked to see Tay get more PT.


I know it was probably just my perception, but it seemed like Angel would eff up, get  taken out, then as soon as the next dead ball, he was back in again. I didn't rough ridin' get it, didn't get it at all. This probably took away my ability to look at his game objectively. I just know that if Tay had played more and we lost, I would not have been thinking if Angel had played more we would have won.

Angel was always coming right back into the game because KU was always extending their lead when he went to the bench.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: wabash909 on February 14, 2012, 03:35:23 PM
2008-2009

Buchi Awaji  -  SG
Abdul Herrera  -  C


2009-2010

Jordan Henriquez Roberts – C
Martavious Irving – PG
Wally Judge -  PF
Rodney McGruder – SG
Nick Russell - SG


2010-2011

Freddy Asprilla – C
Juevol Myles – PG
Shane Southwell -  SF
Will Spradling – PG
Nino Williams - SF



Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kougar24 on February 14, 2012, 03:36:49 PM
2010-2011

Freddy Asprilla – C
Juevol Myles – PG
Shane Southwell -  SF
Will Spradling – PG
Nino Williams - SF

Still hurts to look at.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: purplenutz on February 14, 2012, 09:41:39 PM
Overall, I think Angel is the better player between him and Tay. Of course. When Tay plays, I don't ever feel there are glaring mistakes, which there were plenty for Angel last night. I would have liked to see Tay get more PT.


I know it was probably just my perception, but it seemed like Angel would eff up, get  taken out, then as soon as the next dead ball, he was back in again. I didn't rough ridin' get it, didn't get it at all. This probably took away my ability to look at his game objectively. I just know that if Tay had played more and we lost, I would not have been thinking if Angel had played more we would have won.

Angel was always coming right back into the game because KU was always extending their lead when he went to the bench.

Really? I mean, really?  I mean seriously, really? . . .
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: sys on February 14, 2012, 10:02:42 PM
I just know that if Tay had played more and we lost, I would not have been thinking if Angel had played more we would have won.

i remember how satisfied the board was after the ou road loss.  "we lost sure, but i loved the roster mgmt.", we all said.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Mixed-Nutz on February 14, 2012, 10:23:54 PM
High major, high impact point gaurds are so hard to recruit everybody wants them, there is not alot of them and they are finky during their recruitment, if you have one your during pretty well. If Naadir Tharpe doesn't pan out, ku won't have any average big 12 point gaurd. Should be happy we have Angle and look forward to his dominance!!!!
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: sys on February 14, 2012, 10:26:17 PM
If Naadir Tharpe doesn't pan out, ku won't have any average big 12 point gaurd.

it kinda proves your point about how hard it is to get elite pgs, but johnson will be a senior next year and was a 5 star pg recruit.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: purplenutz on February 14, 2012, 10:26:46 PM
I just know that if Tay had played more and we lost, I would not have been thinking if Angel had played more we would have won.

i remember how satisfied the board was after the ou road loss.  "we lost sure, but i loved the roster mgmt.", we all said.

Count me out of that board discussion please..  We lost that game because we were atrocious everywhere.  Roster mgmt had no bearing on that game.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: sys on February 14, 2012, 10:31:17 PM
Count me out of that board discussion please..  We lost that game because we were atrocious everywhere.  Roster mgmt had no bearing on that game.

purplenutz, i doubt if i will remember your name when you next post, but i should, because you are smarter than most posters.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: purplenutz on February 14, 2012, 10:57:33 PM
Count me out of that board discussion please..  We lost that game because we were atrocious everywhere.  Roster mgmt had no bearing on that game.

purplenutz, i doubt if i will remember your name when you next post, but i should, because you are smarter than most posters.

Sweet! Finally . . . I've been quoted by sys :blush:  And I previously thought that being quoted by Steve Dave was the pinnacle. :lol:
Title: Angel Rodriguez can do whatever the F%CK he wants out there.
Post by: nicname on February 14, 2012, 11:10:57 PM
3 posessions, stupid stupid decisions, selfish stupid shot w/Jamar wide open.

He cant guard anybody, he turns the ball over like its his job. Just murdered momentum repeatedly tonight, over and over.

http://kansasstate.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=419&tid=153094263&mid=153094263&sid=889&style=2

(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsportingego.files.wordpress.com%2F2012%2F02%2Fupton20.gif&hash=f21ad1556f9e745ba97310589ba894493c820db1)

Title: Re: Angel Rodriguez can do whatever the F%CK he wants out there.
Post by: kso_FAN on February 15, 2012, 07:24:35 AM
I didn't read all of that, but I feel like I've heard all the talking points used about Angel/Frank before.
Title: Re: Angel Rodriguez can do whatever the F%CK he wants out there.
Post by: pissclams on February 15, 2012, 07:30:53 AM
merged.  with several of our posters doing their best GPC impression.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kso_FAN on February 18, 2012, 07:49:03 AM
Quote
"Having Angel and Will (Spradling) at the guards gives us two guys that have the ability to be high assist guys. Martavious (Irving) is more of a slasher, an attack kind of guy, which is why I like to have him coming off the bench. I feel we are at our best with those two guys (Rodriguez and Spradling) at guard right now."

Quote
Asked about the recent stretch of games, Martin said, "That circular orange thing finding that piece of twin that hangs at the rim. That is the one thing that is missing." He added, "It's hard to beat anybody if the ball does not go into the basket. It is impossible to beat at top-five team if you do not make shots. You have to make shots."
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: ednksu on February 18, 2012, 02:59:50 PM
I would really enjoy it if Angel would figure out how to get around screens at this level. 
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 18, 2012, 03:03:22 PM
I would really enjoy it if Angel would figure out how to get around screens at this level. 

fuuuuuuuuck you.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Trim on February 18, 2012, 03:07:18 PM
:lol:
Title: Re: Angel Rodriguez can do whatever the F%CK he wants out there.
Post by: JKEYS on February 18, 2012, 03:19:06 PM
3 posessions, stupid stupid decisions, selfish stupid shot w/Jamar wide open.

He cant guard anybody, he turns the ball over like its his job. Just murdered momentum repeatedly tonight, over and over.

http://kansasstate.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=419&tid=153094263&mid=153094263&sid=889&style=2

(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsportingego.files.wordpress.com%2F2012%2F02%2Fupton20.gif&hash=f21ad1556f9e745ba97310589ba894493c820db1)


May have lost the KU game (in some opinions)...but no way we win today without Angel.  :emawkid: :emawkid: :emawkid:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: steve dave on February 18, 2012, 06:52:54 PM
I think it's safe to say he's better than Sherron at this point in each of their careers
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: ednksu on February 18, 2012, 07:32:26 PM
I would really enjoy it if Angel would figure out how to get around screens at this level. 

fuuuuuuuuck you.
would it be better if I included an exception for Acy giving him the forearm shiver?
Title: Re: Angel Rodriguez can do whatever the F%CK he wants out there.
Post by: doom on February 18, 2012, 07:44:21 PM
3 posessions, stupid stupid decisions, selfish stupid shot w/Jamar wide open.

He cant guard anybody, he turns the ball over like its his job. Just murdered momentum repeatedly tonight, over and over.

http://kansasstate.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=419&tid=153094263&mid=153094263&sid=889&style=2

(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsportingego.files.wordpress.com%2F2012%2F02%2Fupton20.gif&hash=f21ad1556f9e745ba97310589ba894493c820db1)


May have lost the KU game (in some opinions)...but no way we win today without Angel.  :emawkid: :emawkid: :emawkid:

He tried to throw it away.  That terrible drive at the end, and the travel.   :facepalm:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: sys on February 18, 2012, 07:49:50 PM
what terrible drive at the end?
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 18, 2012, 08:01:05 PM
what terrible drive at the end?

He lost it in the lane once when we were stalling and said "Here angel, do something with 10 seconds left on the shot clock".
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: sys on February 18, 2012, 08:02:19 PM
He lost it in the lane once when we were stalling and said "Here angel, do something with 10 seconds left on the shot clock".

oh.  meh.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 18, 2012, 08:03:22 PM
yeah, I don't think it was "terrible".
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: ednksu on February 18, 2012, 09:00:03 PM
it was terrible because he chose not to pass to a wide open Rodney who was squared up on the 3 pt line.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: wes mantooth on February 18, 2012, 09:11:05 PM
it was terrible because he chose not to pass to a wide open Rodney who was squared up on the 3 pt line.

you're a rough ridin' idiot
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: felix rex on February 18, 2012, 10:33:15 PM
what terrible drive at the end?

He lost it in the lane once when we were stalling and said "Here angel, do something with 10 seconds left on the shot clock".

I know the OP meant this as a negative, but this has become my favorite part of our offensive possessions. Only way it would be better is if Angel dribbled for a few seconds first and called a bullshit set with a raised fist before he just created something from nothing.

"demiurge!"
"ex nihilo!"
"salvador salvador!"
Title: Re: Re: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 18, 2012, 10:37:14 PM
what terrible drive at the end?

He lost it in the lane once when we were stalling and said "Here angel, do something with 10 seconds left on the shot clock".

I know the OP meant this as a negative, but this has become my favorite part of our offensive possessions. Only way it would be better is if Angel dribbled for a few seconds first and called a bullshit set with a raised fist before he just created something from nothing.

"demiurge!"
"ex nihilo!"
"salvador salvador!"

I have no problem with asking Angel to create something...I'd just prefer it happen earlier in the shot clock so there are more options. I don't think we should have tried to milk the clock with a 4 point lead and 4 minutes left. It worked, but we only scored one bucket in the last 4.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: SkinnyBenny on February 18, 2012, 10:46:22 PM
LOL @ that travel and his rocky start. Otherwise, Angel was  :katpak: for the most part.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: ednksu on February 18, 2012, 11:17:40 PM
it was terrible because he chose not to pass to a wide open Rodney who was squared up on the 3 pt line.

you're a rough ridin' idiot
I guess you were watching a different game in the group home than I was.  Maybe something the staff acted out with puppets for you?
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: wes mantooth on February 18, 2012, 11:23:20 PM
it was terrible because he chose not to pass to a wide open Rodney who was squared up on the 3 pt line.

you're a rough ridin' idiot
I guess you were watching a different game in the group home than I was.  Maybe something the staff acted out with puppets for you?

wtf are you even talking about?
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: ednksu on February 18, 2012, 11:32:56 PM
it was terrible because he chose not to pass to a wide open Rodney who was squared up on the 3 pt line.

you're a rough ridin' idiot
I guess you were watching a different game in the group home than I was.  Maybe something the staff acted out with puppets for you?

wtf are you even talking about?

You live a group home where they acted out the game with puppets so you didn't understand what was really going on in the game, thus your idiotic comment responding to my comment?
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 18, 2012, 11:35:08 PM
it was terrible because he chose not to pass to a wide open Rodney who was squared up on the 3 pt line.

you're a rough ridin' idiot
I guess you were watching a different game in the group home than I was.  Maybe something the staff acted out with puppets for you?

Was it the first possession after the under 3 timeout? Because Angel was in the middle of the paint and Rodney was almost directly behind him. Just how stupid are you?
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: ednksu on February 18, 2012, 11:40:15 PM
it was terrible because he chose not to pass to a wide open Rodney who was squared up on the 3 pt line.

you're a rough ridin' idiot
I guess you were watching a different game in the group home than I was.  Maybe something the staff acted out with puppets for you?

Was it the first possession after the under 3 timeout? Because Angel was in the middle of the paint and Rodney was almost directly behind him. Just how stupid are you?
I forgot that rule, thanks for pointing it out.  I need to remember that once Angel advances the ball inside of the 3pt line he is prohibited from passing it unless he is jumping out of bounds under the basket, and even than it can only go to a big not waiting on an errant pass. 

Go back and watch the replay.  The top of the 1-3-1 and the middle of the zone all started to sag back once it got to <10second because they knew he was ONLY going to drive it.  And Rodney wasn't right behind him, he was slightly to Angel's right with a guy on that side which would have made for a difficult pass.  Instead he should have pushed in, sucked the zone to him like it already was, stopped, and passed it back out to Rodney for a wide open 3.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: wes mantooth on February 18, 2012, 11:41:00 PM
it was terrible because he chose not to pass to a wide open Rodney who was squared up on the 3 pt line.

you're a rough ridin' idiot
I guess you were watching a different game in the group home than I was.  Maybe something the staff acted out with puppets for you?

wtf are you even talking about?

You live a group home where they acted out the game with puppets so you didn't understand what was really going on in the game, thus your idiotic comment responding to my comment?

yeah ok dobbieksu sock
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: wes mantooth on February 18, 2012, 11:41:44 PM
it was terrible because he chose not to pass to a wide open Rodney who was squared up on the 3 pt line.

you're a rough ridin' idiot
I guess you were watching a different game in the group home than I was.  Maybe something the staff acted out with puppets for you?

Was it the first possession after the under 3 timeout? Because Angel was in the middle of the paint and Rodney was almost directly behind him. Just how stupid are you?
I forgot that rule, thanks for pointing it out.  I need to remember that once Angel advances the ball inside of the 3pt line he is prohibited from passing it unless he is jumping out of bounds under the basket, and even than it can only go to a big not waiting on an errant pass. 

Go back and watch the replay.  The top of the 1-3-1 and the middle of the zone all started to sag back once it got to <10second because they knew he was ONLY going to drive it.  And Rodney wasn't right behind him, he was slightly to Angel's right with a guy on that side which would have made for a difficult pass.  Instead he should have pushed in, sucked the zone to him like it already was, stopped, and passed it back out to Rodney for a wide open 3.

great analysis ednluke
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: ednksu on February 18, 2012, 11:42:40 PM
it was terrible because he chose not to pass to a wide open Rodney who was squared up on the 3 pt line.

you're a rough ridin' idiot
I guess you were watching a different game in the group home than I was.  Maybe something the staff acted out with puppets for you?

Was it the first possession after the under 3 timeout? Because Angel was in the middle of the paint and Rodney was almost directly behind him. Just how stupid are you?
I forgot that rule, thanks for pointing it out.  I need to remember that once Angel advances the ball inside of the 3pt line he is prohibited from passing it unless he is jumping out of bounds under the basket, and even than it can only go to a big not waiting on an errant pass. 

Go back and watch the replay.  The top of the 1-3-1 and the middle of the zone all started to sag back once it got to <10second because they knew he was ONLY going to drive it.  And Rodney wasn't right behind him, he was slightly to Angel's right with a guy on that side which would have made for a difficult pass.  Instead he should have pushed in, sucked the zone to him like it already was, stopped, and passed it back out to Rodney for a wide open 3.

great analysis ednluke
You're really bad as this.  Nowhere near the right usage of luke-ing someone. 
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: bigwillie20 on February 18, 2012, 11:44:24 PM
People slamming Angel and  :adored: over Jamar in the same breath are obviously trolling or should never open their mouthbreathing faces up about basketball ever again
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: wes mantooth on February 18, 2012, 11:45:02 PM
it was terrible because he chose not to pass to a wide open Rodney who was squared up on the 3 pt line.

you're a rough ridin' idiot
I guess you were watching a different game in the group home than I was.  Maybe something the staff acted out with puppets for you?

Was it the first possession after the under 3 timeout? Because Angel was in the middle of the paint and Rodney was almost directly behind him. Just how stupid are you?
I forgot that rule, thanks for pointing it out.  I need to remember that once Angel advances the ball inside of the 3pt line he is prohibited from passing it unless he is jumping out of bounds under the basket, and even than it can only go to a big not waiting on an errant pass. 

Go back and watch the replay.  The top of the 1-3-1 and the middle of the zone all started to sag back once it got to <10second because they knew he was ONLY going to drive it.  And Rodney wasn't right behind him, he was slightly to Angel's right with a guy on that side which would have made for a difficult pass.  Instead he should have pushed in, sucked the zone to him like it already was, stopped, and passed it back out to Rodney for a wide open 3.

great analysis ednluke
You're really bad as this.  Nowhere near the right usage of luke-ing someone. 

says the guy butthurt about angel not passing the ball to rodney  :love:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: ednksu on February 18, 2012, 11:48:50 PM
it was terrible because he chose not to pass to a wide open Rodney who was squared up on the 3 pt line.

you're a rough ridin' idiot
I guess you were watching a different game in the group home than I was.  Maybe something the staff acted out with puppets for you?

Was it the first possession after the under 3 timeout? Because Angel was in the middle of the paint and Rodney was almost directly behind him. Just how stupid are you?
I forgot that rule, thanks for pointing it out.  I need to remember that once Angel advances the ball inside of the 3pt line he is prohibited from passing it unless he is jumping out of bounds under the basket, and even than it can only go to a big not waiting on an errant pass. 

Go back and watch the replay.  The top of the 1-3-1 and the middle of the zone all started to sag back once it got to <10second because they knew he was ONLY going to drive it.  And Rodney wasn't right behind him, he was slightly to Angel's right with a guy on that side which would have made for a difficult pass.  Instead he should have pushed in, sucked the zone to him like it already was, stopped, and passed it back out to Rodney for a wide open 3.

great analysis ednluke
You're really bad as this.  Nowhere near the right usage of luke-ing someone. 

says the guy butthurt about angel not passing the ball to rodney  :love:
not butt hurt at all.  Very happy to see Angel making plays and maturing as a player.  He did much better today, and if he had this level of game versus KU we win, not just because of more points, but because he took care of the ball better in the 2nd half.  He didn't have any random drives under the basket with a pitch to no one/post player's leg in this game that I recall either.  Still has work to do with getting over/under screens, especially in physical games, and needs to look for teammates in crunch time instead of only for his drive.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: wes mantooth on February 18, 2012, 11:50:48 PM
it was terrible because he chose not to pass to a wide open Rodney who was squared up on the 3 pt line.

you're a rough ridin' idiot
I guess you were watching a different game in the group home than I was.  Maybe something the staff acted out with puppets for you?

Was it the first possession after the under 3 timeout? Because Angel was in the middle of the paint and Rodney was almost directly behind him. Just how stupid are you?
I forgot that rule, thanks for pointing it out.  I need to remember that once Angel advances the ball inside of the 3pt line he is prohibited from passing it unless he is jumping out of bounds under the basket, and even than it can only go to a big not waiting on an errant pass. 

Go back and watch the replay.  The top of the 1-3-1 and the middle of the zone all started to sag back once it got to <10second because they knew he was ONLY going to drive it.  And Rodney wasn't right behind him, he was slightly to Angel's right with a guy on that side which would have made for a difficult pass.  Instead he should have pushed in, sucked the zone to him like it already was, stopped, and passed it back out to Rodney for a wide open 3.

great analysis ednluke
You're really bad as this.  Nowhere near the right usage of luke-ing someone. 

says the guy butthurt about angel not passing the ball to rodney  :love:
not butt hurt at all.  Very happy to see Angel making plays and maturing as a player.  He did much better today, and if he had this level of game versus KU we win, not just because of more points, but because he took care of the ball better in the 2nd half.  He didn't have any random drives under the basket with a pitch to no one/post player's leg in this game that I recall either.  Still has work to do with getting over/under screens, especially in physical games, and needs to look for teammates in crunch time instead of only for his drive.

we lost to ku, who gives a eff, get over it
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 18, 2012, 11:50:59 PM
yeah, I rewatched the replay and confirmed ed is stupid. No surprise that he would only hang out with stupid people that agree with him.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: ednksu on February 18, 2012, 11:52:29 PM
it was terrible because he chose not to pass to a wide open Rodney who was squared up on the 3 pt line.

you're a rough ridin' idiot
I guess you were watching a different game in the group home than I was.  Maybe something the staff acted out with puppets for you?

Was it the first possession after the under 3 timeout? Because Angel was in the middle of the paint and Rodney was almost directly behind him. Just how stupid are you?
I forgot that rule, thanks for pointing it out.  I need to remember that once Angel advances the ball inside of the 3pt line he is prohibited from passing it unless he is jumping out of bounds under the basket, and even than it can only go to a big not waiting on an errant pass. 

Go back and watch the replay.  The top of the 1-3-1 and the middle of the zone all started to sag back once it got to <10second because they knew he was ONLY going to drive it.  And Rodney wasn't right behind him, he was slightly to Angel's right with a guy on that side which would have made for a difficult pass.  Instead he should have pushed in, sucked the zone to him like it already was, stopped, and passed it back out to Rodney for a wide open 3.

great analysis ednluke
You're really bad as this.  Nowhere near the right usage of luke-ing someone. 

says the guy butthurt about angel not passing the ball to rodney  :love:
not butt hurt at all.  Very happy to see Angel making plays and maturing as a player.  He did much better today, and if he had this level of game versus KU we win, not just because of more points, but because he took care of the ball better in the 2nd half.  He didn't have any random drives under the basket with a pitch to no one/post player's leg in this game that I recall either.  Still has work to do with getting over/under screens, especially in physical games, and needs to look for teammates in crunch time instead of only for his drive.

we lost to ku, who gives a eff, get over it

you don't think we win our home game against KU if Angel has the same stat line he has today over what he had in that game?
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: wes mantooth on February 18, 2012, 11:56:09 PM
it was terrible because he chose not to pass to a wide open Rodney who was squared up on the 3 pt line.

you're a rough ridin' idiot
I guess you were watching a different game in the group home than I was.  Maybe something the staff acted out with puppets for you?

Was it the first possession after the under 3 timeout? Because Angel was in the middle of the paint and Rodney was almost directly behind him. Just how stupid are you?
I forgot that rule, thanks for pointing it out.  I need to remember that once Angel advances the ball inside of the 3pt line he is prohibited from passing it unless he is jumping out of bounds under the basket, and even than it can only go to a big not waiting on an errant pass. 

Go back and watch the replay.  The top of the 1-3-1 and the middle of the zone all started to sag back once it got to <10second because they knew he was ONLY going to drive it.  And Rodney wasn't right behind him, he was slightly to Angel's right with a guy on that side which would have made for a difficult pass.  Instead he should have pushed in, sucked the zone to him like it already was, stopped, and passed it back out to Rodney for a wide open 3.

great analysis ednluke
You're really bad as this.  Nowhere near the right usage of luke-ing someone. 

says the guy butthurt about angel not passing the ball to rodney  :love:
not butt hurt at all.  Very happy to see Angel making plays and maturing as a player.  He did much better today, and if he had this level of game versus KU we win, not just because of more points, but because he took care of the ball better in the 2nd half.  He didn't have any random drives under the basket with a pitch to no one/post player's leg in this game that I recall either.  Still has work to do with getting over/under screens, especially in physical games, and needs to look for teammates in crunch time instead of only for his drive.

we lost to ku, who gives a eff, get over it

you don't think we win our home game against KU if Angel has the same stat line he has today over what he had in that game?

omg  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: ednksu on February 19, 2012, 12:00:50 AM
yeah, I rewatched the replay and confirmed ed is stupid. No surprise that he would only hang out with stupid people that agree with him.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fphotos.napalm.net%2Fclubsi%2Fagnelnottorodeny1.png&hash=bd10592ab6d0435e58d5fb7d597aef95f4e977f9)
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fphotos.napalm.net%2Fclubsi%2Fagnelnottorodeny2.png&hash=27049b37e0e2ce285bb2b4541062b43c7b777694)
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fphotos.napalm.net%2Fclubsi%2Fagnelnottorodeny3.png&hash=64dd35d781ed2425e4394684d437ea623cf1dca4)
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fphotos.napalm.net%2Fclubsi%2Fangelnottorodney.png&hash=a54e2e223b5be9161e98a655ca37e75d246783d9)


and what sized shoes would you like with your clown suit?  From 6 seconds the top of the 1-3-1 was staring at Angel and ignored the rest of the team.  @ 6 seconds and @4 seconds they had dropped deep into the lane.  By 3 seconds there isn't a defender above the FT line.  don't get pissy with me because your wrong.  LOOK AT THE GAME TAPE/rome bump. 
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: wes mantooth on February 19, 2012, 12:03:13 AM
good grief just stop edn  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 19, 2012, 12:04:41 AM
:lol:

I mean, Angel shouldn't have lost the ball, but my god!

:lol:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: ednksu on February 19, 2012, 12:09:05 AM
fine I'll leave you two to your circle jerk. have fun.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: wes mantooth on February 19, 2012, 12:12:43 AM
fine I'll leave you two to your circle jerk. have fun.

you are making a stupid point, that's all
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: ednksu on February 19, 2012, 12:16:51 AM
fine I'll leave you two to your circle jerk. have fun.

you are making a stupid point, that's all
good grief just stop wmt:facepalm:

at a certain point when you have a series of examples of similar situations playing out in a similar manner it becomes something called a pattern.  Now just because we didn't get burned by it today doesn't mean its not still a massive issue for this player.  Fair point?

If Angel is going to take that next step, he needs to have better game ending decisions than what he is currently doing. Now he is young, and is only gaining in experience.  But a certain point when the "slashing" guard isn't being used to slash, and the possession guard is allowed to drive in game ending situation which have cost us games there is an issue.   
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: sys on February 19, 2012, 12:17:22 AM
edn, i appreciate your confidence, but if you think a pg driving to the basket with no one but a stationary big almost under the rim and guarding your big to stop you should flip the ball past two defenders to a shooter behind you, you really shouldn't be allowed to watch bball.  certainly not allowed to comment on what you think you are seeing.

could have hit ojeleye on the dive, but then you've got ojeleye trying to catch, turn, not travel, not lose the ball and hit a shot.  definitely not a better option.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: sys on February 19, 2012, 12:19:45 AM
If Angel is going to take that next step, he needs to have better game ending decisions than what he is currently doing. Now he is young, and is only gaining in experience.

i guess the point that you are having trouble grasping is that ar-t, seeing the situ at game speed with big 12 athletes bouncing all around him made the right decision, and you, sitting at a computer looking at  vids and screen shots are making the wrong one.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 19, 2012, 12:28:44 AM
Like, if Angel hadn't turned the ball over, here are the potential options that would have been superior to passing it to Rodney:

1) take it to the rim
2) floater
3) draw jamar's defender, lob to jamar
4) pass to Will for a three
5) pass to Vic for the situation
6) turn it over trying to do any of the above
7) pass it to Rod
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: ednksu on February 19, 2012, 12:29:46 AM
If Angel is going to take that next step, he needs to have better game ending decisions than what he is currently doing. Now he is young, and is only gaining in experience.

i guess the point that you are having trouble grasping is that ar-t, seeing the situ at game speed with big 12 athletes bouncing all around him made the right decision, and you, sitting at a computer looking at  vids and screen shots are making the wrong one.
disagree with this entirely.  By your notion players don't go through a maturation process and all the coach speak about the college game being much faster than HS/AAU ball are all moot.  Good players can slow teh game down.  Jake and Dennis both did it, Angel will too in time.  Hopefully he is looking at his game tape and seeing ways to improve.  Keeping your head up, using your court vision to see players that open when 3 or 4 players suck into the zone on you is critical in player development. 

edn, i appreciate your confidence, but if you think a pg driving to the basket with no one but a stationary big almost under the rim and guarding your big to stop you should flip the ball past two defenders to a shooter behind you, you really shouldn't be allowed to watch bball.  certainly not allowed to comment on what you think you are seeing.

could have hit ojeleye on the dive, but then you've got ojeleye trying to catch, turn, not travel, not lose the ball and hit a shot.  definitely not a better option.

for instance this scenario.  Look between the 6th second on the shot clock and the 4th.  Heslip is falling back below the 3 pt line.  He was the top of the 1-3-1.  #50 is in the same spot but still qued up entirely on Angel.  At this point AR has done what a good PG should do and brought defenders to him and has created an unbalance in the zone.  The key to defeating the zone is to make it unbalanced and find a shooter who should have floated to their conform range inside of the void on the court.  Because Heslip has sunk down so low and 50 is keyed in to his right the voids are now from the top of the key and to the right for us.  Rodney correctly moves to the top, further right than where he was originally by about 4 ft and waits for a pass which never comes.   AR has 3 or arguably 4 defenders on him by the 3 second mark.  He is in too deep to make a pass and is surrounded and walled off from the rim.  This is where the maturation of a player is critical.  They have to realize when that defensive player (Heslip) has passed the point of no return (defensive position) in guarding their player and AR has to get hit teammate the ball.  Heslip was moving low with seconds before Angel got in too deep, could have kicked to an unbalanced zone shooter for an open shot. 
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: wes mantooth on February 19, 2012, 12:33:22 AM
If Angel is going to take that next step, he needs to have better game ending decisions than what he is currently doing. Now he is young, and is only gaining in experience.

i guess the point that you are having trouble grasping is that ar-t, seeing the situ at game speed with big 12 athletes bouncing all around him made the right decision, and you, sitting at a computer looking at  vids and screen shots are making the wrong one.
disagree with this entirely.  By your notion players don't go through a maturation process and all the coach speak about the college game being much faster than HS/AAU ball are all moot.  Good players can slow teh game down.  Jake and Dennis both did it, Angel will too in time.  Hopefully he is looking at his game tape and seeing ways to improve.  Keeping your head up, using your court vision to see players that open when 3 or 4 players suck into the zone on you is critical in player development. 

edn, i appreciate your confidence, but if you think a pg driving to the basket with no one but a stationary big almost under the rim and guarding your big to stop you should flip the ball past two defenders to a shooter behind you, you really shouldn't be allowed to watch bball.  certainly not allowed to comment on what you think you are seeing.

could have hit ojeleye on the dive, but then you've got ojeleye trying to catch, turn, not travel, not lose the ball and hit a shot.  definitely not a better option.

for instance this scenario.  Look between the 6th second on the shot clock and the 4th.  Heslip is falling back below the 3 pt line.  He was the top of the 1-3-1.  #50 is in the same spot but still qued up entirely on Angel.  At this point AR has done what a good PG should do and brought defenders to him and has created an unbalance in the zone.  The key to defeating the zone is to make it unbalanced and find a shooter who should have floated to their conform range inside of the void on the court.  Because Heslip has sunk down so low and 50 is keyed in to his right the voids are now from the top of the key and to the right for us.  Rodney correctly moves to the top, further right than where he was originally by about 4 ft and waits for a pass which never comes.   AR has 3 or arguably 4 defenders on him by the 3 second mark.  He is in too deep to make a pass and is surrounded and walled off from the rim.  This is where the maturation of a player is critical.  They have to realize when that defensive player (Heslip) has passed the point of no return (defensive position) in guarding their player and AR has to get hit teammate the ball.  Heslip was moving low with seconds before Angel got in too deep, could have kicked to an unbalanced zone shooter for an open shot. 

did not read

why, because this point you are trying to drive home is pointless
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 19, 2012, 12:34:47 AM
did not read

why, because this point you are trying to drive home is pointless

It's actually pretty entertaining. I mean when someone goes so far as to post pics of what they thought happened and then describe something completely different from what their pics show is remarkable to watch.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: wes mantooth on February 19, 2012, 12:36:02 AM
did not read

why, because this point you are trying to drive home is pointless

It's actually pretty entertaining. I mean when someone goes so far as to post pics of what they thought happened and then describe something completely different from what their pics show is remarkable to watch.

i mean, sure, entertaining, yeah.  but of all plays to be butthurt about, i don't get
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: ednksu on February 19, 2012, 12:36:15 AM
did not read

why, because this point you are trying to drive home is pointless

It's actually pretty entertaining. I mean when someone goes so far as to post pics of what they thought happened and then describe something completely different from what their pics show is remarkable to watch.

 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

seriously beems level of posting now.  I'll wait for Sys to come if he chooses with a conversation post.  Until than I'll just  :lol: at your little circle jerk. 


seriously......


beems level without a doubt.......

 :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: wes mantooth on February 19, 2012, 12:37:10 AM
did not read

why, because this point you are trying to drive home is pointless

It's actually pretty entertaining. I mean when someone goes so far as to post pics of what they thought happened and then describe something completely different from what their pics show is remarkable to watch.

 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

seriously beems level of posting now.  I'll wait for Sys to come if he chooses with a conversation post.  Until than I'll just  :lol: at your little circle jerk. 


seriously......


beems level without a doubt.......

 :lol: :lol: :lol:

honestly don't know what you are doing here
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: ednksu on February 19, 2012, 12:39:07 AM
did not read

why, because this point you are trying to drive home is pointless

It's actually pretty entertaining. I mean when someone goes so far as to post pics of what they thought happened and then describe something completely different from what their pics show is remarkable to watch.

 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

seriously beems level of posting now.  I'll wait for Sys to come if he chooses with a conversation post.  Until than I'll just  :lol: at your little circle jerk. 


seriously......


beems level without a doubt.......

 :lol: :lol: :lol:

honestly don't know what you are doing here




O I know, respond to one of Rusty's posts next so he can
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fclassicfun.ws%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2009%2F07%2Fkermit-fapping.gif&hash=338f4e2534f5a3610059f5fdd8c458ac5f5f8840)


seriously, hacks like you two make goEMAW the board with the worst case of group think ever.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: wes mantooth on February 19, 2012, 12:42:23 AM
did not read

why, because this point you are trying to drive home is pointless

It's actually pretty entertaining. I mean when someone goes so far as to post pics of what they thought happened and then describe something completely different from what their pics show is remarkable to watch.

 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

seriously beems level of posting now.  I'll wait for Sys to come if he chooses with a conversation post.  Until than I'll just  :lol: at your little circle jerk. 


seriously......


beems level without a doubt.......

 :lol: :lol: :lol:

honestly don't know what you are doing here




O I know, respond to one of Rusty's posts next so he can
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fclassicfun.ws%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2009%2F07%2Fkermit-fapping.gif&hash=338f4e2534f5a3610059f5fdd8c458ac5f5f8840)


seriously, hacks like you two make goEMAW the board with the worst case of group think ever.

this meltdown of yours is great.  just tell me your drunk and i'll leave you alone
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 19, 2012, 12:43:39 AM
the best part is he doesn't realize sys is making fun of him worse than we are.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: ednksu on February 19, 2012, 12:45:31 AM
did not read

why, because this point you are trying to drive home is pointless

It's actually pretty entertaining. I mean when someone goes so far as to post pics of what they thought happened and then describe something completely different from what their pics show is remarkable to watch.

 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

seriously beems level of posting now.  I'll wait for Sys to come if he chooses with a conversation post.  Until than I'll just  :lol: at your little circle jerk. 


seriously......


beems level without a doubt.......

 :lol: :lol: :lol:

honestly don't know what you are doing here




O I know, respond to one of Rusty's posts next so he can
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fclassicfun.ws%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2009%2F07%2Fkermit-fapping.gif&hash=338f4e2534f5a3610059f5fdd8c458ac5f5f8840)


seriously, hacks like you two make goEMAW the board with the worst case of group think ever.

this meltdown of yours is great.  just tell me your drunk and i'll leave you alone

not drunk at all.  studying fascism. 

just enjoying your and rusty in your  :lick:  :love: of each other. 

Here is the problem with your entire posting philosophy. you can't handle opposing views and must make everything congruent to other posters you admire, thus group think.  you can't even take a step back from this look at what I've posted and the actual game tape to see what I'm saying.  Your so committed to your position that you are completely blinded to other points of view. 
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: wes mantooth on February 19, 2012, 12:46:04 AM
the best part is he doesn't realize sys is making fun of him worse than we are.

yeah he's pretty good.  but alas, this is just a classic goEMAW circle jerk
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: wes mantooth on February 19, 2012, 12:46:57 AM
edn, your point of view is stupid.  like worse than beems type stuff
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: ednksu on February 19, 2012, 12:49:03 AM
edn, your point of view is stupid.  like worse than beems type stuff

classic.  No I'm not posting like beems, youre posting like beems move.  

Nice work responding to my post and only keeping the lotion flowing between you and Rusty.  Group think at its best right here.

I'll let you guys finish up.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: wes mantooth on February 19, 2012, 12:51:55 AM
edn, your point of view is stupid.  like worse than beems type stuff

classic.  No I'm not posting like beems, youre posting like beems move.  

Nice work responding to my post and only keeping the lotion flowing between you and Rusty.  Group think at its best right here.

I'll let you guys finish up.

oh no!  angel didn't throw the ball behind him to rodney.  what an idiot!  - edn
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: sys on February 19, 2012, 12:52:46 AM
I'll wait for Sys to come if he chooses with a conversation post. 

i mean, i don't know what you're looking for here.  i agree with reality, that there weren't any defenders between ar-t and the hoop (other than the one guy flat-footed and 8 feet away clearly more scared of ar-t thowing a lob at his man than of ar-t shooting).
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: ednksu on February 19, 2012, 12:56:11 AM
I'll wait for Sys to come if he chooses with a conversation post. 

i mean, i don't know what you're looking for here.  i agree with reality, that there weren't any defenders between ar-t and the hoop (other than the one guy flat-footed and 8 feet away clearly more scared of ar-t thowing a lob at his man than of ar-t shooting).
what I'm looking for is someone to say that Angel, who apparently isn't the 'slashing guard', should stop making poor decisions slashing to the rim only to be bottled up in game deciding plays.  A lob would have been acceptable, a pass back to Rodney or Will under 6 seconds when Heslip went below the FT line would have been acceptable.  Going to Victor would not have been acceptable.   
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 19, 2012, 01:02:47 AM
I'll wait for Sys to come if he chooses with a conversation post.

i mean, i don't know what you're looking for here.  i agree with reality, that there weren't any defenders between ar-t and the hoop (other than the one guy flat-footed and 8 feet away clearly more scared of ar-t thowing a lob at his man than of ar-t shooting).
what I'm looking for is someone to say that Angel, who apparently isn't the 'slashing guard', should stop making poor decisions slashing to the rim only to be bottled up in game deciding plays.  A lob would have been acceptable, a pass back to Rodney or Will under 6 seconds when Heslip went below the FT line would have been acceptable.  Going to Victor would not have been acceptable.   

LOL @ copying the options I laid out in my post.

But Angel lost the handle - he wasn't "bottled up" or surrounded. It was a mistake. He had the three perimeter defenders BEHIND HIM and just lost the ball. That's completely different from making a "bad decision" and when you look at the big picture of the game it's really rough ridin' nitpicky, (even if you were right)  (You're not).
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: sys on February 19, 2012, 02:59:21 AM
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsports.cbsimg.net%2Fimages%2Fvisual%2Fwhatshot%2Fangelrod.jpg&hash=ee2ad2b08d883acdf7c06aa3e1a4cf3d9eb05bba)
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Stevesie60 on February 19, 2012, 03:07:44 AM
edn, what the hell are you talking about?

Look at the 4th picture you poster. Angel has a clear path to the basket. Do you seriously not see that?
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: 0.42 on February 19, 2012, 03:54:43 AM
:love:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Trim on February 19, 2012, 08:54:32 AM
Good work last night, everyone.  :lol:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: felix rex on February 19, 2012, 09:00:07 AM
Quote
Pass to Vic for the situation

Would be a good sign IMO.
Title: Re: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: CNS on February 19, 2012, 09:02:35 AM
Guys, did you see how amazing Angel was yesterday?

Filling up a stat line.

Oh man......

Sent from my MB611 using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: steve dave on February 19, 2012, 09:15:51 AM
Yes, Angel carried us to a great win once again.  fantastic game.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Cire on February 19, 2012, 01:16:13 PM
can't win with him(sometimes) can't win without him(ever)
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kso_FAN on February 20, 2012, 10:32:45 AM
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: mcmwcat on February 20, 2012, 10:34:22 AM
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi190.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz61%2Ffuku5955%2Fespn-angel.jpg&hash=89be7b6596cd866ead3df909f2bf35476c42181a)
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 20, 2012, 10:34:48 AM
MEAN MUGGIN
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: EllToPay on February 20, 2012, 10:35:30 AM
omg, the media HATES isu. HATES THEM.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kso_FAN on February 20, 2012, 10:37:11 AM
Quote
to lead the Wildcats to their best win of the season against Baylor Saturday

 :confused:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: steve dave on February 20, 2012, 10:39:51 AM
Quote
to lead the Wildcats to their best win of the season against Baylor Saturday

 :confused:

I think Baylor on the road was better than MU at home but I think you could argue it either way
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Trim on February 20, 2012, 10:41:23 AM
MEAN MUGGIN

MUGGIN THUGGIN
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kso_FAN on February 20, 2012, 10:43:22 AM
I think Baylor on the road was better than MU at home but I think you could argue it either way

True. I think Missouri has proven to be the better team though.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: steve dave on February 20, 2012, 10:44:18 AM
I think Baylor on the road was better than MU at home but I think you could argue it either way

True. I think Missouri has proven to be the better team though.

no question
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: DQ12 on February 20, 2012, 10:45:07 AM
I think Baylor on the road was better than MU at home but I think you could argue it either way

True. I think Missouri has proven to be the better team though.
Roads wins are really hard.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 20, 2012, 10:47:00 AM
look at us, arguing over which of our wins over top 10 teams was the best. :blush:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kso_FAN on February 20, 2012, 10:47:36 AM
look at us, arguing over which of our wins over top 10 teams was the best. :blush:

 :gocho:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: CNS on February 20, 2012, 10:49:19 AM
Call me a Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) but I was more worried about Baylor on the road than MU on the road. 
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kso_FAN on February 20, 2012, 10:51:07 AM
Call me a respect but I was more worried about Baylor on the road than MU on the road. 

I was the exact opposite. Honestly, if we keep it within 8-10 I'll be pretty pleased. We match-up well with MU too, but they have played really well at home.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: steve dave on February 20, 2012, 10:56:12 AM
Call me a Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) but I was more worried about Baylor on the road than MU on the road.  

that is pretty Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).  of the second 3 game KU/BU/MU stretch the MU game was/is my lowest confidence.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: CNS on February 20, 2012, 10:58:13 AM
Call me a Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) but I was more worried about Baylor on the road than MU on the road.  

that is pretty Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).  of the second 3 game KU/BU/MU stretch the MU game was/is my lowest confidence.

Yeah, it hasn't come through any analysis.  Strictly a subconsciousness lack of worry.  Don't know why.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: MakeItRain on February 20, 2012, 12:03:15 PM
This best win argument will be put to bed in about 34 hours
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: steve dave on February 20, 2012, 12:04:07 PM
This best win argument will be put to bed in about 34 hours

 :emawkid:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: SdK on February 20, 2012, 12:21:16 PM
I was unable to watch the Baylor game live due to being at a conference. When I was able to watch it, I watched the highlights first and saw the travel call at the end of the game, and knew how I would see it spun on here.


The defenses of Angel's performance against KU seem like moral victories to me. Sure he mumped up a lot, but he did X, Y, and Z. It just seems to me that the folks who are #teamangel to the core, are the same types of people who get on other people for claiming happiness for moral victories in other areas. I don't understand that hypocrisy.

If you want to be an Angel sunshine pumper, kool aid drinker, etc. I don't know how you get on others for doing the same for others.

I see Angel's potential just as much as anyone else, I don't think he's near do no wrong status though. Nowhere near Jake, Denis, etc.

Going off on people that cut Angel down and backing up the point with, he's the best we got, he has potential, he wowed me on that play, he's young, he's so adorable doesn't make sense to me when the same people complain about how young the team is, how players get ran off, how badly we recruit, etc. Angel is benefiting from the things that you complain about. Without the things you bitch about you wouldn't have your golden calf.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 20, 2012, 12:22:22 PM
I was unable to watch the Baylor game live due to being at a conference. When I was able to watch it, I watched the highlights first and saw the travel call at the end of the game, and knew how I would see it spun on here.


The defenses of Angel's performance against KU seem like moral victories to me. Sure he mumped up a lot, but he did X, Y, and Z. It just seems to me that the folks who are #teamangel to the core, are the same types of people who get on other people for claiming happiness for moral victories in other areas. I don't understand that hypocrisy.

If you want to be an Angel sunshine pumper, kool aid drinker, etc. I don't know how you get on others for doing the same for others.

I see Angel's potential just as much as anyone else, I don't think he's near do no wrong status though. Nowhere near Jake, Denis, etc.

Going off on people that cut Angel down and backing up the point with, he's the best we got, he has potential, he wowed me on that play, he's young, he's so adorable doesn't make sense to me when the same people complain about how young the team is, how players get ran off, how badly we recruit. Angel is benefiting from the things that you complain about. Without the things you bitch about you wouldn't have your golden calf.

:dnr: but you can go ahead and eff off anyway.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kso_FAN on February 20, 2012, 12:26:32 PM
I was unable to watch the Baylor game live due to being at a conference. When I was able to watch it, I watched the highlights first and saw the travel call at the end of the game, and knew how I would see it spun on here.


The defenses of Angel's performance against KU seem like moral victories to me. Sure he mumped up a lot, but he did X, Y, and Z. It just seems to me that the folks who are #teamangel to the core, are the same types of people who get on other people for claiming happiness for moral victories in other areas. I don't understand that hypocrisy.

If you want to be an Angel sunshine pumper, kool aid drinker, etc. I don't know how you get on others for doing the same for others.

I see Angel's potential just as much as anyone else, I don't think he's near do no wrong status though. Nowhere near Jake, Denis, etc.

Going off on people that cut Angel down and backing up the point with, he's the best we got, he has potential, he wowed me on that play, he's young, he's so adorable doesn't make sense to me when the same people complain about how young the team is, how players get ran off, how badly we recruit, etc. Angel is benefiting from the things that you complain about. Without the things you bitch about you wouldn't have your golden calf.

I don't think Angel is in "do no wrong status". Not at all. The first half against KU was inexcusable.

But I do think Angel at PG for the majority of the minutes gives K-State the best chance to win. That's why he should play and be allowed to play through mistakes, and more than other guards. Fair is not equal, and Frank's job is to win games. IMHO playing Angel gives us the best shot to win games. K-State is not going to win, especially against good teams, with any other guard combination.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: nicname on February 20, 2012, 12:26:45 PM
I was unable to watch the Baylor game live due to being at a conference. When I was able to watch it, I watched the highlights first and saw the travel call at the end of the game, and knew how I would see it spun on here.


The defenses of Angel's performance against KU seem like moral victories to me. Sure he mumped up a lot, but he did X, Y, and Z. It just seems to me that the folks who are #teamangel to the core, are the same types of people who get on other people for claiming happiness for moral victories in other areas. I don't understand that hypocrisy.

If you want to be an Angel sunshine pumper, kool aid drinker, etc. I don't know how you get on others for doing the same for others.

I see Angel's potential just as much as anyone else, I don't think he's near do no wrong status though. Nowhere near Jake, Denis, etc.

Going off on people that cut Angel down and backing up the point with, he's the best we got, he has potential, he wowed me on that play, he's young, he's so adorable doesn't make sense to me when the same people complain about how young the team is, how players get ran off, how badly we recruit, etc. Angel is benefiting from the things that you complain about. Without the things you bitch about you wouldn't have your golden calf.

1. Big mistake watching highlights first. You should have sacked up like a real EMAW and avoided any mention of the game until you had time to watch it on replay via the internet.

2. Watch the damn game and then go barf up that vomit comment you made about Angel's travel.  Angel is the reason we won that game.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: steve dave on February 20, 2012, 12:31:28 PM
more like suncompletefuckingdumbass kid
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: mocat on February 20, 2012, 12:32:11 PM
Call me a Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) but I was more worried about Baylor on the road than MU on the road. 

just for reference, in the 4 previous years @ Columbia (which were all against inferior MU teams compared to this year's MU team):

0-4 by an average score of 68-80
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: CNS on February 20, 2012, 12:34:47 PM
Call me a Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) but I was more worried about Baylor on the road than MU on the road. 

just for reference, in the 4 previous years @ Columbia (which were all against inferior MU teams compared to this year's MU team):

0-4 by an average score of 68-80

Oh, I know.....

Again, it's not something I can explain. 

Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: steve dave on February 20, 2012, 12:36:34 PM
Call me a Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) but I was more worried about Baylor on the road than MU on the road. 

just for reference, in the 4 previous years @ Columbia (which were all against inferior MU teams compared to this year's MU team):

0-4 by an average score of 68-80

Oh, I know.....

Again, it's not something I can explain. 

explain it then cns casey you dumbass
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kso_FAN on February 20, 2012, 12:37:05 PM
Call me a respect but I was more worried about Baylor on the road than MU on the road.  

just for reference, in the 4 previous years @ Columbia (which were all against inferior MU teams compared to this year's MU team):

0-4 by an average score of 68-80

Oh, I know.....

Again, it's not something I can explain.  



I get it, I still struggle to figure out how Missouri is as good as they are this year. Yeah, they have good guards and really efficient offense, but teams should be able to exploit the match-up weaknesses they seem to have consistently on the floor. But they can't. And Frank Haith? Its just strange.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 20, 2012, 12:38:21 PM
they can shoot the basketball really well.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: steve dave on February 20, 2012, 12:39:56 PM
english coaches them up
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: WillieWatanabe on February 20, 2012, 12:42:47 PM
7 seniors. 2 juniors.

:dunno:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Trim on February 20, 2012, 12:43:27 PM
more like suncompletefuckingdumbass kid

Keep in mind, this is a guy who knew winters needed a ticket and could've had one but instead said "eff winter and trim and all of goEMAW, I'll say I'll take it and just no-show/no-call."

As Rusty astutely pointed out years back, "garbage poster = garbage human being."
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: CNS on February 20, 2012, 12:45:19 PM
Call me a Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) but I was more worried about Baylor on the road than MU on the road. 

just for reference, in the 4 previous years @ Columbia (which were all against inferior MU teams compared to this year's MU team):

0-4 by an average score of 68-80

Oh, I know.....

Again, it's not something I can explain. 

explain it then cns casey you dumbass

 :curse:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: SdK on February 20, 2012, 12:45:28 PM
@nic

I was at a conference and was receiving text updates on the game. Like a true EMAW, I would have watched the game when I was able to, win or lose.


I agree Angel is the best option we have at his position. I agree it is a maturation process. I know there will be growing pains. I'm not putting the guy down. If we recruited better, didn't run guys off, had more experience, things that a lot of the #teamangel crowd bitches about. Angel wouldn't be a hot topic right now. It just seems to me that some people like to bitch a lot about things that now directly benefit Angel. Like not having better options, not having more experience, etc. So I don't know why people use the things they have previously bitched about to defend Angel. If you're mad that we don't recruit better, don't have better options, why don't you complain about having to deal with his growing  pains? Why does he get a pass?
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 20, 2012, 12:48:11 PM
what the eff is a "pass"? You are a goddam moron.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: mocat on February 20, 2012, 12:49:00 PM
@nic

I was at a conference and was receiving text updates on the game. Like a true EMAW, I would have watched the game when I was able to, win or lose.


I agree Angel is the best option we have at his position. I agree it is a maturation process. I know there will be growing pains. I'm not putting the guy down. If we recruited better, didn't run guys off, had more experience, things that a lot of the #teamangel crowd bitches about. Angel wouldn't be a hot topic right now. It just seems to me that some people like to bitch a lot about things that now directly benefit Angel. Like not having better options, not having more experience, etc. So I don't know why people use the things they have previously bitched about to defend Angel. If you're mad that we don't recruit better, don't have better options, why don't you complain about having to deal with his growing  pains? Why does he get a pass?

probably bc it's not his fault everyone got run off you dumbass
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: chunkles on February 20, 2012, 12:49:32 PM
Quote from: DOB
you played your heart out, C A.  You played your heart out.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: SdK on February 20, 2012, 12:49:52 PM
more like suncompletefuckingdumbass kid

Keep in mind, this is a guy who knew winters needed a ticket and could've had one but instead said "eff winter and trim and all of goEMAW, I'll say I'll take it and just no-show/no-call."

As Rusty astutely pointed out years back, "garbage poster = garbage human being."

Then I believe you or MIR, I can never distinguish the two, said you wanted to throw me down some Bramlage stairs and I said I'd meet ya there, and they got all quiet. As far as garbage, if that is how you feel, my posting skills aren't a roller coaster ride, they are pretty consistent. You chose me over Winters, and you felt I was a garbage human being. That's on you then, huh?
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Trim on February 20, 2012, 12:51:42 PM
Why does he get a pass?

Because he's already one of the top 5-7 Cats OAT and rapidly rising?  :dunno:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: wes mantooth on February 20, 2012, 12:52:30 PM
@nic

I was at a conference and was receiving text updates on the game. Like a true EMAW, I would have watched the game when I was able to, win or lose.


I agree Angel is the best option we have at his position. I agree it is a maturation process. I know there will be growing pains. I'm not putting the guy down. If we recruited better, didn't run guys off, had more experience, things that a lot of the #teamangel crowd bitches about. Angel wouldn't be a hot topic right now. It just seems to me that some people like to bitch a lot about things that now directly benefit Angel. Like not having better options, not having more experience, etc. So I don't know why people use the things they have previously bitched about to defend Angel. If you're mad that we don't recruit better, don't have better options, why don't you complain about having to deal with his growing  pains? Why does he get a pass?

Sundance_ednksu post
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Trim on February 20, 2012, 12:53:55 PM
more like suncompletefuckingdumbass kid

Keep in mind, this is a guy who knew winters needed a ticket and could've had one but instead said "eff winter and trim and all of goEMAW, I'll say I'll take it and just no-show/no-call."

As Rusty astutely pointed out years back, "garbage poster = garbage human being."

Then I believe you or MIR, I can never distinguish the two, said you wanted to throw me down some Bramlage stairs and I said I'd meet ya there, and they got all quiet. As far as garbage, if that is how you feel, my posting skills aren't a roller coaster ride, they are pretty consistent. You chose me over Winters, and you felt I was a garbage human being. That's on you then, huh?

I don't think I ever said I wanted to throw you down some Bramlage stairs, but it seems like a good idea.  MIR's a pretty smart guy.  And yeah, we all look alike.  :rolleyes: :opcat:

I said I'd give the ticket to whoever asked for it first.  You did.  I have integrity.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Skipper44 on February 20, 2012, 12:55:01 PM
Call me a respect but I was more worried about Baylor on the road than MU on the road. 

just for reference, in the 4 previous years @ Columbia (which were all against inferior MU teams compared to this year's MU team):

0-4 by an average score of 68-80

I am really afraid we are a little satisfied with the BU win and get whipped like we did in '09.  I will take it as a good sign if we can make it a competitive game.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: SdK on February 20, 2012, 12:55:51 PM
more like suncompletefuckingdumbass kid

Keep in mind, this is a guy who knew winters needed a ticket and could've had one but instead said "eff winter and trim and all of goEMAW, I'll say I'll take it and just no-show/no-call."

As Rusty astutely pointed out years back, "garbage poster = garbage human being."

Then I believe you or MIR, I can never distinguish the two, said you wanted to throw me down some Bramlage stairs and I said I'd meet ya there, and they got all quiet. As far as garbage, if that is how you feel, my posting skills aren't a roller coaster ride, they are pretty consistent. You chose me over Winters, and you felt I was a garbage human being. That's on you then, huh?

I don't think I ever said I wanted to throw you down some Bramlage stairs, but it seems like a good idea.  MIR's a pretty smart guy.  And yeah, we all look alike.  :rolleyes: :opcat:

I said I'd give the ticket to whoever asked for it first.  You did.  I have integrity.

You both post alike, I remember what you both look like.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: MakeItRain on February 20, 2012, 01:05:44 PM
more like suncompletefuckingdumbass kid

Keep in mind, this is a guy who knew winters needed a ticket and could've had one but instead said "eff winter and trim and all of goEMAW, I'll say I'll take it and just no-show/no-call."

As Rusty astutely pointed out years back, "garbage poster = garbage human being."

Then I believe you or MIR, I can never distinguish the two, said you wanted to throw me down some Bramlage stairs and I said I'd meet ya there, and they got all quiet. As far as garbage, if that is how you feel, my posting skills aren't a roller coaster ride, they are pretty consistent. You chose me over Winters, and you felt I was a garbage human being. That's on you then, huh?

I don't think I ever said I wanted to throw you down some Bramlage stairs, but it seems like a good idea.  MIR's a pretty smart guy.  And yeah, we all look alike.  :rolleyes: :opcat:

I said I'd give the ticket to whoever asked for it first.  You did.  I have integrity.

You both post alike

This may be the stupidest thing you've said in this thread and you've said some really stupid crap.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: MakeItRain on February 20, 2012, 01:07:07 PM
@nic

I was at a conference and was receiving text updates on the game. Like a true EMAW, I would have watched the game when I was able to, win or lose.


I agree Angel is the best option we have at his position. I agree it is a maturation process. I know there will be growing pains. I'm not putting the guy down. If we recruited better, didn't run guys off, had more experience, things that a lot of the #teamangel crowd bitches about. Angel wouldn't be a hot topic right now. It just seems to me that some people like to bitch a lot about things that now directly benefit Angel. Like not having better options, not having more experience, etc. So I don't know why people use the things they have previously bitched about to defend Angel. If you're mad that we don't recruit better, don't have better options, why don't you complain about having to deal with his growing  pains? Why does he get a pass?

Sundance_ednksu post

Nailed it.  I'm amazed how people san say such stupid, uninformed BS with such conviction.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: pissclams on February 20, 2012, 01:10:58 PM
I was unable to watch the Baylor game live due to being at a conference. When I was able to watch it, I watched the highlights first and saw the travel call at the end of the game, and knew how I would see it spun on here.

are you claiming to be a soothsayer?  i really doubt this is true.  my guess is that you're just another snake oil salesman who was born and raised in a summer haze.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: SdK on February 20, 2012, 01:58:23 PM
I was looking for a good pi'ing to get me fired up for the rest of my day. I would like to thank all who participated. Enjoy the rest of your day!
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Berries and Cream on February 20, 2012, 03:17:52 PM
Oh man. Prepare yourselves #teamangel and #teamjamar...

http://www.kstatesports.com/allaccess/?media=303591 (http://www.kstatesports.com/allaccess/?media=303591)

2:46  :love:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Stevesie60 on February 20, 2012, 03:22:19 PM
Oh man. Prepare yourselves #teamangel and #teamjamar...

http://www.kstatesports.com/allaccess/?media=303591 (http://www.kstatesports.com/allaccess/?media=303591)

2:46  :love:

It's just.....so.....beautiful.......  :love:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 20, 2012, 03:29:18 PM
HOLY crap. :sdeek:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: nicname on February 20, 2012, 03:37:01 PM
Oh man. Prepare yourselves #teamangel and #teamjamar...

http://www.kstatesports.com/allaccess/?media=303591 (http://www.kstatesports.com/allaccess/?media=303591)

2:46  :love:

It's just.....so.....beautiful.......  :love:

that may be better than the end of the gpc video of the ku game last year. 
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: mocat on February 20, 2012, 03:44:19 PM
HOLY crap. :sdeek:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: WillieWatanabe on February 20, 2012, 03:46:17 PM
Oh man. Prepare yourselves #teamangel and #teamjamar...

http://www.kstatesports.com/allaccess/?media=303591 (http://www.kstatesports.com/allaccess/?media=303591)

2:46  :love:

(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthe-mainboard.com%2Fstyles%2Fdefault%2Fxenforo%2Fsmilies%2Fohgosh.gif&hash=fa916bd8c2c5c6c3b84c6d19d4ee3f1f334efb2a)
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kougar24 on February 20, 2012, 03:51:49 PM
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthe-mainboard.com%2Fstyles%2Fdefault%2Fxenforo%2Fsmilies%2Fohgosh.gif&hash=fa916bd8c2c5c6c3b84c6d19d4ee3f1f334efb2a)

awesome
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: ednksu on February 20, 2012, 06:57:12 PM
@nic

I was at a conference and was receiving text updates on the game. Like a true EMAW, I would have watched the game when I was able to, win or lose.


I agree Angel is the best option we have at his position. I agree it is a maturation process. I know there will be growing pains. I'm not putting the guy down. If we recruited better, didn't run guys off, had more experience, things that a lot of the #teamangel crowd bitches about. Angel wouldn't be a hot topic right now. It just seems to me that some people like to bitch a lot about things that now directly benefit Angel. Like not having better options, not having more experience, etc. So I don't know why people use the things they have previously bitched about to defend Angel. If you're mad that we don't recruit better, don't have better options, why don't you complain about having to deal with his growing  pains? Why does he get a pass?

Sundance_ednksu post

Nailed it.  I'm amazed how people san say such stupid, uninformed BS with such conviction.
yeah facts are for pussies.  goEMAW circle jerks are for the ages.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: steve dave on February 20, 2012, 07:25:32 PM
Oh man. Prepare yourselves #teamangel and #teamjamar...

http://www.kstatesports.com/allaccess/?media=303591 (http://www.kstatesports.com/allaccess/?media=303591)

2:46  :love:

oh man, oh man
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: ednksu on February 20, 2012, 07:31:15 PM
Oh man. Prepare yourselves #teamangel and #teamjamar...

http://www.kstatesports.com/allaccess/?media=303591 (http://www.kstatesports.com/allaccess/?media=303591)

2:46  :love:

oh man, oh man
great cut @ 1:30. 
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kso_FAN on February 20, 2012, 08:15:26 PM
Oh man. Prepare yourselves #teamangel and #teamjamar...

Oh man is right...

(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2FgoEMAW.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F02%2Fteamangeljamar.png&hash=4ca6f331ddae87517662ea484df2b0ae9041e739)
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: SdK on February 20, 2012, 08:19:26 PM
I am very very #teamjamar and also #equipoangel. I'm just anti #teamangel.

That was the most adorable thing I've ever seen from the cats. Aside from Jake's kiss the court exit, it is my favorite KSU Cats moment.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: wes mantooth on February 20, 2012, 08:22:41 PM
I am very very #teamjamar and also #equipoangel. I'm just anti #teamangel.

That was the most adorable thing I've ever seen from the cats. Aside from Jake's kiss the court exit, it is my favorite KSU Cats moment.

 :facepalm:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Trim on February 20, 2012, 08:24:24 PM
:love:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Holdin Manutz on February 20, 2012, 09:39:04 PM
ESPN's basketball page is loving some Angel also right now
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: wes mantooth on February 21, 2012, 08:22:28 PM
What a rough ridin' stud.  Again, can't win this game without him.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: SdK on February 21, 2012, 08:23:00 PM
What a rough ridin' stud.  Again, can't win this game without him.

 :love: :love: :love: :love:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: wes mantooth on February 21, 2012, 08:25:58 PM
What a rough ridin' stud.  Again, can't win this game without him.

 :love: :love: :love: :love:

you don't want to complain about a missed free throw or something?
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Berries and Cream on February 21, 2012, 08:27:36 PM
 :emawkid:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: SdK on February 21, 2012, 08:28:52 PM
What a rough ridin' stud.  Again, can't win this game without him.

 :love: :love: :love: :love:

you don't want to complain about a missed free throw or something?

He played like crap against KU, I said that. He even said that himself.  I'm against those on #teamangel for the way they handle any criticism of Angel, not Angel himself. I love that guy.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: SkinnyBenny on February 21, 2012, 08:40:02 PM
What a rough ridin' stud.  Again, can't win this game without him.

 :love: :love: :love: :love:

you don't want to complain about a missed free throw or something?


Angel was rough ridin' terrible in the KU game. It doesn't mean that everyone who pointed that out hates Angel every game, dumbasses.  Most of us really really like Angel.  This is why master threads are dumb.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: bigwillie20 on February 21, 2012, 08:41:58 PM
Can someone please gif that glorious drive to the bucket  :love: tia
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: wes mantooth on February 21, 2012, 08:43:18 PM
What a rough ridin' stud.  Again, can't win this game without him.

 :love: :love: :love: :love:

you don't want to complain about a missed free throw or something?


Angel was rough ridin' terrible in the KU game. It doesn't mean that everyone who pointed that out hates Angel every game, dumbasses.  Most of us really really like Angel.  This is why master threads are dumb.

this isn't about the ku game, it's about the baylor game
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: steve dave on February 21, 2012, 08:44:06 PM
lol at angel haters holding onto the KU game like a life preserver  :blah: :lol:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: SkinnyBenny on February 21, 2012, 08:46:15 PM
Can someone please gif that glorious drive to the bucket  :love: tia

Man oh man. You can't even imagine the weird, alien-sounding yelp that came out of my mouth when he did that.   :love: :love: :love:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: pissclams on February 21, 2012, 08:46:35 PM
What a rough ridin' stud.  Again, can't win this game without him.

 :love: :love: :love: :love:

you don't want to complain about a missed free throw or something?


Angel was rough ridin' terrible in the KU game. It doesn't mean that everyone who pointed that out hates Angel every game, dumbasses.  Most of us really really like Angel.  This is why master threads are dumb.

master threads are dumb because they make it harder for you to forget how you threw  your freshman PG under the bus after he had a bad game.  got it.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: SkinnyBenny on February 21, 2012, 08:47:19 PM
 :jerk:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: SdK on February 21, 2012, 08:47:33 PM
What a rough ridin' stud.  Again, can't win this game without him.

 :love: :love: :love: :love:

you don't want to complain about a missed free throw or something?


Angel was rough ridin' terrible in the KU game. It doesn't mean that everyone who pointed that out hates Angel every game, dumbasses.  Most of us really really like Angel.  This is why master threads are dumb.

master threads are dumb because they make it harder for you to forget how you threw  your freshman PG under the bus after he had a bad game.  got it.

Sounds a lot like how people want things that happen in chat to stay in chat......
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 21, 2012, 08:54:54 PM
This thread wasn't about the KU game, it was about why we can't sit Angel when he makes mistakes.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Rock Lobster on February 21, 2012, 10:34:48 PM
Oh man. Prepare yourselves #teamangel and #teamjamar...

http://www.kstatesports.com/allaccess/?media=303591 (http://www.kstatesports.com/allaccess/?media=303591)

2:46  :love:

Take that and sandwich it with these:
http://espn.go.com/ncb/photos?gameId=320520142&photoId=1868501#photo_1868501
http://espn.go.com/ncb/photos?gameId=320520142&photoId=1868564#photo_1868564
:love: :love: :love:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: mocat on February 21, 2012, 10:36:18 PM
This thread wasn't about the KU game, it was about why we can't sit Angel when he makes mistakes.


THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kso_FAN on February 21, 2012, 10:36:56 PM
Oh man. Prepare yourselves #teamangel and #teamjamar...

http://www.kstatesports.com/allaccess/?media=303591 (http://www.kstatesports.com/allaccess/?media=303591)

2:46  :love:

Take that and sandwich it with this: http://espn.go.com/ncb/photos?gameId=320520142&photoId=1868501#photo_1868501
 :love: :love: :love:

Better!

http://espn.go.com/ncb/photos?gameId=320520142&photoId=1868501#photo_1868564
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 21, 2012, 10:38:19 PM
BFF! :love:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Rock Lobster on February 21, 2012, 10:40:04 PM
Oh man. Prepare yourselves #teamangel and #teamjamar...

http://www.kstatesports.com/allaccess/?media=303591 (http://www.kstatesports.com/allaccess/?media=303591)

2:46  :love:

Take that and sandwich it with this: http://espn.go.com/ncb/photos?gameId=320520142&photoId=1868501#photo_1868501
 :love: :love: :love:

Better!

http://espn.go.com/ncb/photos?gameId=320520142&photoId=1868501#photo_1868564

Yep! I had to edit my post after I found that
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: yoga-like_abana on February 21, 2012, 10:46:09 PM
they are starting to get there adorableness back and its adorable
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: SdK on February 21, 2012, 10:47:54 PM
I can't remember a more adorable duo.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: ednksu on February 21, 2012, 11:14:53 PM
great cut at 4:12 in the 2nd

and his dump of to Jam Sams was really great.  I don't think he does that in the beginning of the year.  The game is starting to click for him more and more.  He didn't really ever get trapped under Mizzou's double screens tonight.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Trim on February 21, 2012, 11:17:13 PM
http://espn.go.com/ncb/photos?gameId=320520142&photoId=1868501#photo_1868501
http://espn.go.com/ncb/photos?gameId=320520142&photoId=1868564#photo_1868564

Looks like we won the goEMAW Big 12 Championship tonight.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 21, 2012, 11:42:04 PM
great cut at 4:12 in the 2nd

and his dump of to Jam Sams was really great.  I don't think he does that in the beginning of the year.  The game is starting to click for him more and more.  He didn't really ever get trapped under Mizzou's double screens tonight.

shut up, jerk.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: ednksu on February 21, 2012, 11:47:19 PM
great cut at 4:12 in the 2nd

and his dump of to Jam Sams was really great.  I don't think he does that in the beginning of the year.  The game is starting to click for him more and more.  He didn't really ever get trapped under Mizzou's double screens tonight.

shut up, jerk.
its okay little buddy.  :blush:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kougar24 on February 22, 2012, 12:49:51 AM
Oh man. Prepare yourselves #teamangel and #teamjamar...

http://www.kstatesports.com/allaccess/?media=303591 (http://www.kstatesports.com/allaccess/?media=303591)

2:46  :love:

Take that and sandwich it with this: http://espn.go.com/ncb/photos?gameId=320520142&photoId=1868501#photo_1868501
 :love: :love: :love:

Better!

http://espn.go.com/ncb/photos?gameId=320520142&photoId=1868501#photo_1868564

:love:

Remember when tards were guessing that Angel's PT was destroying team chemistry and leading to our losses? :lol:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: SkinnyBenny on February 22, 2012, 09:08:26 AM
It feels good to be adorable again.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 22, 2012, 09:32:38 AM
What a rough ridin' stud.  Again, can't win this game without him.

 :love: :love: :love: :love:

you don't want to complain about a missed free throw or something?


Angel was rough ridin' terrible in the KU game. It doesn't mean that everyone who pointed that out hates Angel every game, dumbasses.  Most of us really really like Angel.  This is why master threads are dumb.

It's actually a good example of why master threads are great.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: catzacker on February 22, 2012, 09:40:32 AM
Angel was fantastic last night.  It was never more evident that he has to be the guy with the ball, than watching spradling dufrane try to get away from the sisters.  When MU turned up their on ball pressure Angel was the only one who could handle it.  Now, the question will be whether angel can handle it consistently. 
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kso_FAN on February 22, 2012, 09:41:22 AM
Angel was fantastic last night.  It was never more evident that he has to be the guy with the ball, than watching spradling dufrane try to get away from the sisters.  When MU turned up their on ball pressure Angel was the only one who could handle it.  Now, the question will be whether angel can handle it consistently. 

Yep. I was begging Frank to get Angel back in the game during the last 10 minutes when he sat him for a bit. Begging.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: steve dave on February 22, 2012, 09:46:47 AM
I said some angry chat words towards frank when we had the vic/sprads at PG combo in the game.  unbelievably stupid lineup. 
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Cire on February 22, 2012, 09:48:32 AM
spradling looked like he was playing basketball on a treadmill.  He was getting slapped quite a bit but if it's not being called you've got to be able to do something.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: catzacker on February 22, 2012, 09:51:11 AM
Angel was fantastic last night.  It was never more evident that he has to be the guy with the ball, than watching spradling dufrane try to get away from the sisters.  When MU turned up their on ball pressure Angel was the only one who could handle it.  Now, the question will be whether angel can handle it consistently. 

Yep. I was begging Frank to get Angel back in the game during the last 10 minutes when he sat him for a bit. Begging.

What was weird is that in the 1st half, we got what we wanted offensively.  MU really didn’t apply that much on ball pressure; I’m sure being down double digits at home with like 15 left to go probably made them more aggressive, but when MU got into our guards (even Angel to a certain extent) their defense was entirely better.  This is where their short bench affects them; they can’t play for the entire duraction because it will lead to foul trouble.  

Side note>  when the hell did we decide to push our breaks off made buckets?  Like, this year, I don’t remember ever ever pushing it that hard and getting as many easy-ish buckets in transition off opp made baskets.  Props to whomever scouted that one.  
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Cire on February 22, 2012, 09:54:30 AM
figgs had baylor so Undy?
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: WillieWatanabe on February 22, 2012, 09:56:23 AM
Loved Gottlieb almost having orgasms after a couple of Angel's great plays.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Dugout DickStone on February 22, 2012, 09:57:35 AM
Angel was fantastic last night.  It was never more evident that he has to be the guy with the ball, than watching spradling dufrane try to get away from the sisters.  When MU turned up their on ball pressure Angel was the only one who could handle it.  Now, the question will be whether angel can handle it consistently. 

Yep. I was begging Frank to get Angel back in the game during the last 10 minutes when he sat him for a bit. Begging.

What was weird is that in the 1st half, we got what we wanted offensively.  MU really didn’t apply that much on ball pressure; I’m sure being down double digits at home with like 15 left to go probably made them more aggressive, but when MU got into our guards (even Angel to a certain extent) their defense was entirely better.  This is where their short bench affects them; they can’t play for the entire duraction because it will lead to foul trouble.  

Side note>  when the hell did we decide to push our breaks off made buckets?  Like, this year, I don’t remember ever ever pushing it that hard and getting as many easy-ish buckets in transition off opp made baskets.  Props to whomever scouted that one.  


From Kellis:

Frank Martin's plan was to run so the Wildcats could take advantage of it's depth.

"Keep running, keep running," Martin said.  "We would get it out of the net, boom, we're up the floor right back at them.  It was fun to watch."
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: steve dave on February 22, 2012, 09:58:12 AM
Loved Gottlieb almost having orgasms after a couple of Angel's great plays.

yes, he was also immediately demanding that frank put him back in the game when sprads was running point.  gottlieb is solidly #teamangel
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: JKEYS on February 22, 2012, 09:59:10 AM
I said some angry chat words towards frank when we had the vic/sprads at PG combo in the game.  unbelievably stupid lineup.  

I was red in the face when I saw that also.  I'd rather see Diaz handling the ball than Vic (seriously).  Still unsure if he's hurt or being Frank'd  :dunno:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Cire on February 22, 2012, 10:04:02 AM
diaz has got to be hurt.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: CNS on February 22, 2012, 10:04:55 AM
diaz has got to be hurt.

Was wondering the same.  Kid played a lot of PT in a four or 5 game run, then nothing the last two...
Title: Re: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 22, 2012, 10:10:14 AM
This is where J-Mart was so great. We'd be like, "Hey, is Diaz hurt?" and an hour later he's made a phone call and has a blog post up.
Title: Re: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: steve dave on February 22, 2012, 10:12:11 AM
This is where J-Mart was so great. We'd be like, "Hey, is Diaz hurt?" and an hour later he's made a phone call and has a blog post up.

yes, and if it was a secret suspension it was a PM
Title: Re: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: CNS on February 22, 2012, 10:16:56 AM
This is where J-Mart was so great. We'd be like, "Hey, is Diaz hurt?" and an hour later he's made a phone call and has a blog post up.

yes, and if it was a secret suspension it was a PM

Are his phone and internet rough ridin' broke or something?  :dunno:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Cire on February 22, 2012, 10:17:48 AM
yeah if he's back after 3 games we'll know.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: felix rex on February 22, 2012, 10:19:07 AM
Angel was fantastic last night.  It was never more evident that he has to be the guy with the ball, than watching spradling dufrane try to get away from the sisters.  When MU turned up their on ball pressure Angel was the only one who could handle it.  Now, the question will be whether angel can handle it consistently. 

Yep. I was begging Frank to get Angel back in the game during the last 10 minutes when he sat him for a bit. Begging.

What was weird is that in the 1st half, we got what we wanted offensively.  MU really didn’t apply that much on ball pressure; I’m sure being down double digits at home with like 15 left to go probably made them more aggressive, but when MU got into our guards (even Angel to a certain extent) their defense was entirely better.  This is where their short bench affects them; they can’t play for the entire duraction because it will lead to foul trouble.  

Side note>  when the hell did we decide to push our breaks off made buckets?  Like, this year, I don’t remember ever ever pushing it that hard and getting as many easy-ish buckets in transition off opp made baskets.  Props to whomever scouted that one.  


From Kellis:

Frank Martin's plan was to run so the Wildcats could take advantage of it's depth.

"Keep running, keep running," Martin said.  "We would get it out of the net, boom, we're up the floor right back at them.  It was fun to watch."

I missed that. Must have been sent to his Hawaii followers.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: bradleigh on February 22, 2012, 10:46:09 AM

Side note>  when the hell did we decide to push our breaks off made buckets?  Like, this year, I don’t remember ever ever pushing it that hard and getting as many easy-ish buckets in transition off opp made baskets.  Props to whomever scouted that one.  


I really felt like we did this in Hawaii.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Trim on February 22, 2012, 11:22:46 AM
This is where J-Mart was so great. We'd be like, "Hey, is Diaz hurt?" and an hour later he's made a phone call and has a blog post up.

yes, and if it was a secret suspension it was a PM

Are his phone and internet rough ridin' broke or something?  :dunno:

Time zones, man.  Time zones.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Fuktard on February 22, 2012, 12:57:56 PM
Angel was fantastic last night.  It was never more evident that he has to be the guy with the ball, than watching spradling dufrane try to get away from the sisters.  When MU turned up their on ball pressure Angel was the only one who could handle it.  Now, the question will be whether angel can handle it consistently. 

Yep. I was begging Frank to get Angel back in the game during the last 10 minutes when he sat him for a bit. Begging.

I wasn't begging, I was DEMANDING!  I still have no idea why he didn't get him back in sooner.  It was clear sprads couldn't handle that pressure....I was confident Angel could make them pay....and he DID! 
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: AbeFroman on February 22, 2012, 01:04:15 PM
diaz has got to be hurt.

JO is finally grabbing rebounds with authority, Samuels has stepped up since the ku game, and with Gipson playing like he did last night, there are not a lot of minutes to be had.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: steve dave on February 22, 2012, 01:06:49 PM
diaz has got to be hurt.

JO is finally grabbing rebounds with authority, Samuels has stepped up since the ku game, and with Gipson playing like he did last night, there are not a lot of minutes to be had.

tell that to last night steve dave who was losing his rough ridin' mind at frank/vic  :dubious:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Berries and Cream on February 22, 2012, 05:49:55 PM
figgs had baylor so Undy?

Based on the latest K-State HD highlight video showing him addressing the team at the whiteboard pre-game and how involved he was throughout the game, seems like Lamont possibly? Could that be?

First delivering Upshaw, then game planning last night?

Lamont! :gocho:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Cire on February 22, 2012, 05:51:05 PM
figgs had baylor so Undy?

Based on the latest K-State HD highlight video showing him addressing the team at the whiteboard pre-game and how involved he was throughout the game, seems like Lamont possibly? Could that be?

First delivering Upshaw, then game planning last night?

Lamont! :gocho:

for sure.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: SkinnyBenny on February 25, 2012, 02:41:56 PM
Nice free throws down the stretch, PG (and all season).   :flush: :flush: :flush: :flush: :flush:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: EMAWzified on February 25, 2012, 02:44:37 PM
Missed three out of four down the stretch. Went under the screen when Christopherson hit his last 3.

But at least he gave us something, right Doc?

eff. Sick of losing at home.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: wes mantooth on February 25, 2012, 02:44:59 PM
Nice free throws down the stretch, PG (and all season).   :flush: :flush: :flush: :flush: :flush:

Angel definitely lost us the game
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 25, 2012, 02:45:53 PM
Nice free throws down the stretch, PG (and all season).   :flush: :flush: :flush: :flush: :flush:

Angel definitely lost us the game

that or frank by sitting diaz
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Pendergast on February 25, 2012, 02:47:11 PM
Played like a little bitch under pressure.  Shrugged his shoulders after missing his last two.  JFC, real players don't  :dunno: when they eff up.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 25, 2012, 02:48:21 PM
he didn't just play like one, he is one! c'mon frank, stop playing for the future and play for NOW.

OPERATION BENCH ANGEL
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Pendergast on February 25, 2012, 02:50:51 PM
he didn't just play like one, he is one! c'mon frank, stop playing for the future and play for NOW.

OPERATION BENCH ANGEL

 :jerk:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: EMAWzified on February 25, 2012, 02:53:46 PM
>>> Shane <<<< Spradling.
That's where I'm at, anyway.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Dugout DickStone on February 25, 2012, 02:57:51 PM
Sprads must grow an extra arm and hit 60% from half court in practice.  This is Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: SkinnyBenny on February 25, 2012, 03:10:20 PM
In before the inevitable "Missing free throw is no big deal/a big 'tuck talking point" talking point from the people here who will say whatever it takes to be (what they perceive as) anti-tuck.  

:bwpopcorn:

Missing three free throws (if not more?) down the stretch that resulted in zero points and zero offensive rebounds for us that might have led to other points?  From a point guard who has shot 53% from the line this season? Yeah. It matters.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: wetwillie on February 25, 2012, 03:19:35 PM
Will turns in 4 points on a 2-9 shooting performance but angel is two assists shy of a double double while shooting 66 percent from 3 and clearly is why we lost
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 25, 2012, 03:20:20 PM
In before the inevitable "Missing free throw is no big deal/a big 'tuck talking point" talking point from the people here who will say whatever it takes to be (what they perceive as) anti-tuck.   

:bwpopcorn:

Missing three free throws (if not more?) down the stretch that resulted in zero points and zero offensive rebounds for us that might have led to other points?  From a point guard who has shot 53% from the line this season? Yeah. It matters.

#operationbenchangel
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: steve dave on February 25, 2012, 03:23:09 PM
I guess it's not really shocking that being good at message boarding almost always leads to being a non-dumbass at watching and understanding basketball
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Stupid Fitz on February 25, 2012, 03:23:44 PM
Our fan base just amazes me sometimes. You would think I would be used to it by now  :dunno:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Dr Rick Daris on February 25, 2012, 03:23:58 PM
if we had two angels playing then we win today. if we had two wills playing then we would've lost by double digits.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: wes mantooth on February 25, 2012, 03:24:50 PM
In before the inevitable "Missing free throw is no big deal/a big 'tuck talking point" talking point from the people here who will say whatever it takes to be (what they perceive as) anti-tuck.  

:bwpopcorn:

Missing three free throws (if not more?) down the stretch that resulted in zero points and zero offensive rebounds for us that might have led to other points?  From a point guard who has shot 53% from the line this season? Yeah. It matters.

racist or just a dumbass?
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: MakeItRain on February 25, 2012, 03:25:46 PM
In before the inevitable "Missing free throw is no big deal/a big 'tuck talking point" talking point from the people here who will say whatever it takes to be (what they perceive as) anti-tuck.  

:bwpopcorn:

Missing three free throws (if not more?) down the stretch that resulted in zero points and zero offensive rebounds for us that might have led to other points?  From a point guard who has shot 53% from the line this season? Yeah. It matters.

This is Buzz Williams quality trolling, well done.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: sys on February 25, 2012, 03:26:55 PM
i still love ar-t more than the rest of the team combined, and expect his four years to be the funnest to watch in school history.  but, if he's not an 80% ft shooter like it seemed he was early in the year, then i need to ease back a bit on my predictions of greatness.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Berries and Cream on February 25, 2012, 03:29:35 PM
I mean there's no way to argue that Angel wasn't bad in the final two minutes. If he's going to achieve our vision for him he needs to be clutch on FTs and he isn't right now.

However, there's also no way to argue the KSU Wildcats are in a position to win in the final two minutes without Angel.

Amazing how people blame a kid who played largely very well and then poorly at the very end when Will Spradling brings 29 minutes of pure suckitude to the table.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: DQ12 on February 25, 2012, 03:31:14 PM
11 pts 8 assists 1 to

Thank you, Angel.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: catzacker on February 25, 2012, 03:32:11 PM
if we had two angels playing then we win today. if we had two wills playing then we would've lost by double digits.

This is how I look at it.  If spradling isn't a complete piece of absolute dogshit, the only thing missing ft's at the end would have done is lessen the amount we won by.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: AbeFroman on February 25, 2012, 03:33:31 PM
Angel is still going to have his crap moments, but at least they are just moments and not THE ENTIRE GAME
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: sys on February 25, 2012, 03:34:21 PM
I mean there's no way to argue that Angel wasn't bad in the final two minutes. If he's going to achieve our vision for him he needs to be clutch on FTs and he isn't right now.

he wasn't bad.  he went under on a screen on a really good shooter.  that looks bad, but none of us even know how he was told to defend that.  he went for two risky steals, and got one of them setting up an important dunk.  giving up fts on the other.  and he missed a few fts.  that's not a heroic performance, but it's not horrible either.  it's just being really active and in the middle of every play and not being able to make enough positive plays to counter the other team.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kso_FAN on February 25, 2012, 03:34:32 PM
Angel was the best of our guards, really all that needs to be said. Will was awful and Rod hitting the clutch shot vs MU was apparently an isolated incident.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: DQ12 on February 25, 2012, 03:36:15 PM
I mean, 8 assists, 11 points, 3 steals and 1 turnover.

I don't understand what more could be asked from a point guard
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: steve dave on February 25, 2012, 03:39:16 PM
I mean, 8 assists, 11 points, 3 steals and 1 turnover.

I don't understand what more could be asked from a point guard

he was great. 
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: AbeFroman on February 25, 2012, 03:40:58 PM
I mean, 8 assists, 11 points, 3 steals and 1 turnover.

I don't understand what more could be asked from a point guard

Normally you couldn't ask for more. But when your back court partner is prince william you have to play like two angel's
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Berries and Cream on February 25, 2012, 03:41:48 PM
I mean there's no way to argue that Angel wasn't bad in the final two minutes. If he's going to achieve our vision for him he needs to be clutch on FTs and he isn't right now.

he wasn't bad.  he went under on a screen on a really good shooter.  that looks bad, but none of us even know how he was told to defend that.  he went for two risky steals, and got one of them setting up an important dunk.  giving up fts on the other.  and he missed a few fts.  that's not a heroic performance, but it's not horrible either.  it's just being really active and in the middle of every play and not being able to make enough positive plays to counter the other team.

True. It's all really relative to how well he played up until those couple mistakes (with the FTs being the only one we can be sure of).
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: SkinnyBenny on February 25, 2012, 03:42:57 PM
Angel was definitely very good overall today and not the main reason we lost, though you have to admit how much he sucks at the line is very disconcerting.  But this one, like many this season, is more on Sprads.  I mean, I can't even tell you all the horrible thoughts I'm having about this d00d right now. Like, borderline violent. He is just awful and needs to go to some sort of hypnotist or something because this is rough ridin' ridiculous.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: DQ12 on February 25, 2012, 03:47:57 PM
Angel was definitely very good overall today and not the main reason we lost, though you have to admit how much he sucks at the line is very disconcerting.  But this one, like many this season, is more on Sprads.  I mean, I can't even tell you all the horrible thoughts I'm having about this d00d right now. Like, borderline violent. He is just awful and needs to go to some sort of hypnotist or something because this is rough ridin' ridiculous.
Everybody besides JO, Angel and to a lesser extent Rod and Southy was terrible today.  Meltdown and be disconcerted about everyone else, but those four are basically exempt from this one, imo.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: SkinnyBenny on February 25, 2012, 03:58:27 PM
Angel was definitely very good overall today and not the main reason we lost, though you have to admit how much he sucks at the line is very disconcerting.  But this one, like many this season, is more on Sprads.  I mean, I can't even tell you all the horrible thoughts I'm having about this d00d right now. Like, borderline violent. He is just awful and needs to go to some sort of hypnotist or something because this is rough ridin' ridiculous.
Everybody besides JO, Angel and to a lesser extent Rod and Southy was terrible today.  Meltdown and be disconcerted about everyone else, but those four are basically exempt from this one, imo.


's probably fair. So who do we hate most on this team overall? Legit question.  Feel like Sprads is in the lead so down the stretch. :dunno:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: DQ12 on February 25, 2012, 04:00:03 PM
Angel was definitely very good overall today and not the main reason we lost, though you have to admit how much he sucks at the line is very disconcerting.  But this one, like many this season, is more on Sprads.  I mean, I can't even tell you all the horrible thoughts I'm having about this d00d right now. Like, borderline violent. He is just awful and needs to go to some sort of hypnotist or something because this is rough ridin' ridiculous.
Everybody besides JO, Angel and to a lesser extent Rod and Southy was terrible today.  Meltdown and be disconcerted about everyone else, but those four are basically exempt from this one, imo.


's probably fair. So who do we hate most on this team overall? Legit question.  Feel like Sprads is in the lead so down the stretch. :dunno:
If Victor keeps playing significant minutes, it's a tie between he and Will.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Dr Rick Daris on February 25, 2012, 04:01:54 PM
Angel was definitely very good overall today and not the main reason we lost, though you have to admit how much he sucks at the line is very disconcerting.  But this one, like many this season, is more on Sprads.  I mean, I can't even tell you all the horrible thoughts I'm having about this d00d right now. Like, borderline violent. He is just awful and needs to go to some sort of hypnotist or something because this is rough ridin' ridiculous.
Everybody besides JO, Angel and to a lesser extent Rod and Southy was terrible today.  Meltdown and be disconcerted about everyone else, but those four are basically exempt from this one, imo.


's probably fair. So who do we hate most on this team overall? Legit question.  Feel like Sprads is in the lead so down the stretch. :dunno:
If Victor keeps playing significant minutes, it's a tie between he and Will.

my god that first half airball. i was just like oh jesus.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: SkinnyBenny on February 25, 2012, 04:02:47 PM
's probably fair. So who do we hate most on this team overall? Legit question.  Feel like Sprads is in the lead so down the stretch. :dunno:
If Victor keeps playing significant minutes, it's a tie between he and Will.


If Semi is reading this:  :jerk:

If Semi is not reading this:  :katpak:




Either way, :sadpeek:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: steve dave on February 25, 2012, 04:03:13 PM
anyone still talking about semi is a dumbass
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: SkinnyBenny on February 25, 2012, 04:03:59 PM
anyone still talking about semi is a dumbass

yes i know
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: wabash909 on February 25, 2012, 04:04:43 PM
Angel is a Division 1 point guard.  Will Spradling should be playing for Washburn.

With that out of the way, who are we going to recruit to rectify the problem?


Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: steve dave on February 25, 2012, 04:05:41 PM
ALLERIK FREEMAN
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: DQ12 on February 25, 2012, 04:07:37 PM
I wish Angel would've hit those free throws, though.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: steve dave on February 25, 2012, 04:10:23 PM
I wish Angel would've hit those free throws, though.

yeah, would have been good.  not going to get after angel for missing those FTs or Will for shooting those wide open 3's he missed, or our defense on the almost half court shot the stupid white kid hit or tons of other stupid rough ridin' talking point things people bitch about. 
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: sys on February 25, 2012, 04:56:14 PM
ALLERIK FREEMAN

man, would be great if jones could keep spradling off the court next year, and freeman in '13-'14.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Winters on February 25, 2012, 04:57:27 PM
I wish Angel would've hit those free throws, though.
Yeah..
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Berries and Cream on February 25, 2012, 06:08:55 PM
Quote
The screen was too deep on the floor. Our ball-screen defense is called by the guy guarding the screener. Jordan (Henriquez) made a call, and Angel (Rodriguez) did what Jordan asked him to do.

Well there goes that talking point.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: steve dave on February 25, 2012, 06:11:28 PM
Quote
The screen was too deep on the floor. Our ball-screen defense is called by the guy guarding the screener. Jordan (Henriquez) made a call, and Angel (Rodriguez) did what Jordan asked him to do.

Well there goes that talking point.

I, for one, am shocked that our fans immediately got pissed at the mexican PG.  out of character. 
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: steve dave on February 25, 2012, 06:55:04 PM
MadClout

Almost on scholarship
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Angel make some terrible mistakes at terrible times.   Reply
You cannot go under the screen there!
Posted from Rivals Mobile





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lhj3224

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Re: Angel make some terrible mistakes at terrible times.   Reply
He is wearing hus bad idea jeans yet again.



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twofer

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Re: Angel make some terrible mistakes at terrible times.   Reply
How much longer is Frank going to let Angel keep costing us games, that dude has to go.



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barett25

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Re: Angel make some terrible mistakes at terrible times.   Reply
That happens when you have to lean on Freshman point guards to do everything for your team.
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mywillyispurple

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Re: Angel make some terrible mistakes at terrible times.   Reply
also made some very good plays/shots to reclaim the lead. It's maddening for sure. Stating he has to go is the stupidest thing ever.



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Re: Angel make some terrible mistakes at terrible times.   Reply
We went under ball screens all game long. This is a coaching decision. However, I think the "blame" is probably on JO for not pushing out the screener.



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Bumcat

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Re: Angel make some terrible mistakes at terrible times.   Reply
HE IS NOT A FRESHMAN ANY MORE, AFTER THIS MANY GAMES AND STILL MAKING THE SAME STUPID MISTAKES!!! HE'S FRANKS LITTLE PET, FACE IT!!!!
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: DQ12 on February 25, 2012, 06:56:23 PM
ugh sorry angel

 :frown:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: wetwillie on February 25, 2012, 06:58:09 PM
Might as well call the gpc basketball board the plantation
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Cartierfor3 on February 25, 2012, 07:43:23 PM
Wait, those GPC posts are like, jokes right.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: steve dave on February 25, 2012, 07:44:06 PM
Wait, those GPC posts are like, jokes right.

you would think so cf3, but you'd be wrong
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Stevesie60 on February 25, 2012, 07:45:10 PM
SkinnyBenny embarrassed the hell out of goEMAW today. What a racist prick.

I'm not joking at all when I say you're either #teamangel or #teamracist, especially if you don't hate Sprads more than you hate Angel.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: SdK on February 25, 2012, 07:47:44 PM
SkinnyBenny embarrassed the hell out of goEMAW today. What a racist prick.

I'm not joking at all when I say you're either #teamangel or #teamracist, especially if you don't hate Sprads more than you hate Angel.

SB is my favorite non-me poster. So  :shakesfist:

What if I want to be a fan of Angel, but not associate with #teamangel. Where does that leave me? #equipoangel? Ok, I'm there.  :emawkid:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: sys on February 25, 2012, 07:53:51 PM
SkinnyBenny embarrassed the hell out of goEMAW today. What a racist prick.

I'm not joking at all when I say you're either #teamangel or #teamracist, especially if you don't hate Sprads more than you hate Angel.

this guy is a great example of what a lot of these tards look like to the educated poster:

Quote
Re: Spradling has become a major liability!


The ISUZU guard destroyed Angel as well. Fouled him out left Angel picking up his jock strap on several occasions.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: SkinnyBenny on February 25, 2012, 09:12:04 PM
SkinnyBenny embarrassed the hell out of goEMAW today. What a racist prick.

I'm not joking at all when I say you're either #teamangel or #teamracist, especially if you don't hate Sprads more than you hate Angel.

 :jerk:  I hate Will way more than I've ever hated Angel.

Quote from: SkinnyBenny
Angel was definitely very good overall today and not the main reason we lost, though you have to admit how much he sucks at the line is very disconcerting.  But this one, like many this season, is more on Sprads.  I mean, I can't even tell you all the horrible thoughts I'm having about this d00d right now. Like, borderline violent. He is just awful and needs to go to some sort of hypnotist or something because this is rough ridin' ridiculous.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Stevesie60 on February 26, 2012, 03:15:25 AM
I'm talking about this quote, SB.

In before the inevitable "Missing free throw is no big deal/a big 'tuck talking point" talking point from the people here who will say whatever it takes to be (what they perceive as) anti-tuck.  

:bwpopcorn:

Missing three free throws (if not more?) down the stretch that resulted in zero points and zero offensive rebounds for us that might have led to other points?  From a point guard who has shot 53% from the line this season? Yeah. It matters.

Also, the fact that you bumped this thread. I know that the only talking point you have is missed FT's (because that's the only thing he wasn't amazing at today), but it's obvious where you want to put the blame. Didn't see you bump the "Spradling should be run off the team" thread.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: SkinnyBenny on February 26, 2012, 03:21:35 AM
I'm talking about this quote, SB.

In before the inevitable "Missing free throw is no big deal/a big 'tuck talking point" talking point from the people here who will say whatever it takes to be (what they perceive as) anti-tuck.  

:bwpopcorn:

Missing three free throws (if not more?) down the stretch that resulted in zero points and zero offensive rebounds for us that might have led to other points?  From a point guard who has shot 53% from the line this season? Yeah. It matters.

Also, the fact that you bumped this thread. I know that the only talking point you have is missed FT's (because that's the only thing he wasn't amazing at today), but it's obvious where you want to put the blame. Didn't see you bump the "Spradling should be run off the team" thread.



Was told it was a "master thread".  Also, legit didn't see that Spradling thread.  And when I did, I posted in it.  Deal.  :dunno:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: EMAWzified on February 26, 2012, 11:19:47 AM
Quote
Also, the fact that you bumped this thread. I know that the only talking point you have is missed FT's (because that's the only thing he wasn't amazing at today), but it's obvious where you want to put the blame. Didn't see you bump the "Spradling should be run off the team" thread.

Apparently, his management of the offense wasn't good either, or at least in Frank's view -- who was pissed because he didn't run the plays Frank told him to run. The last 10 minutes, our offense sucked with the exception of the backdoor cuts.
It's amazing how Frank can single out everyone for criticism but Spradling. Maybe he thinks his fragile little ego can't take it now.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: ednksu on February 26, 2012, 01:19:29 PM
People need to quit transferring their disappointment of Angel into hate for Sprads.  The critical point people here fail to realize is that Sprads is what he is and for the past few months has not be relied on as a play maker.  Guess what, Frank is treating him like the majority of the team.  Angel has been getting special treatment and has been getting a pass from the usual in game Frankment.  Angel has been doing a terrible job of picking which side of screens to go through and his decisions as a point guard have unequivocally cost us game.  On the flip side the majority of his on ball defense has been good, not even comparable to sprads, and he has won us several games, on the road with his play, when its within the system (mizzou/Baylor).
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 26, 2012, 01:22:08 PM
Nothing says "free pass" like sitting someone for a conference game when they are perfectly healthy.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Panjandrum on February 26, 2012, 01:24:09 PM
People need to quit transferring their disappointment of Angel into hate for Sprads.  The critical point people here fail to realize is that Sprads is what he is and for the past few months has not be relied on as a play maker.  Guess what, Frank is treating him like the majority of the team.  Angel has been getting special treatment and has been getting a pass from the usual in game Frankment.  Angel has been doing a terrible job of picking which side of screens to go through and his decisions as a point guard have unequivocally cost us game.  On the flip side the majority of his on ball defense has been good, not even comparable to sprads, and he has won us several games, on the road with his play, when its within the system (mizzou/Baylor).

Angel gets a pass because the offense completely goes into the garbage when he's not on the floor.

I mean, hey, if we want to completely trash the season to prove points of Angel, whatever, but being that he's the only guard that can create right now, he needs a pass every now and again.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Panjandrum on February 26, 2012, 01:26:43 PM
People need to quit transferring their disappointment of Angel into hate for Sprads.

Also, nothing says, "Frank is treating Sprads like everyone else," when he's providing garbage in/garbage out for thirty minutes a game.

If one were to use minutes as the overall indicator of favor, especially in the context of production, Spradling may as well be a toy dog on Martin's lap.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: ednksu on February 26, 2012, 01:30:45 PM
People need to quit transferring their disappointment of Angel into hate for Sprads.  The critical point people here fail to realize is that Sprads is what he is and for the past few months has not be relied on as a play maker.  Guess what, Frank is treating him like the majority of the team.  Angel has been getting special treatment and has been getting a pass from the usual in game Frankment.  Angel has been doing a terrible job of picking which side of screens to go through and his decisions as a point guard have unequivocally cost us game.  On the flip side the majority of his on ball defense has been good, not even comparable to sprads, and he has won us several games, on the road with his play, when its within the system (mizzou/Baylor).

Angel gets a pass because the offense completely goes into the garbage when he's not on the floor.

I mean, hey, if we want to completely trash the season to prove points of Angel, whatever, but being that he's the only guard that can create right now, he needs a pass every now and again.
I agree that right now in the season he makes this team go (good and bad).  Without a doubt he has learned lessons by playing through stuff that other players would learn through Frankment on the bench.  But if he is going to get a pass from Frankment, people need to recognize that he needs critical evaluation still.  He still needs to get better on defense with decision making on screens, Mizzou was great, ISU just horrid.  I just wish #teamangel people realized how good he has it, and that he still needs to get a crap ton better to make this team into its fullest potential this season.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: CHONGS on February 26, 2012, 01:32:35 PM
I love the angel gets a pass from frank talking point.

very subtle
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: ednksu on February 26, 2012, 01:35:19 PM
I love the angel gets a pass from frank talking point.

very subtle
not what I said or intended.  Angel gets a pass from the usual frankment that most everyone else faces.  Fair enough?
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: CHONGS on February 26, 2012, 01:37:33 PM
I love the angel gets a pass from frank talking point.

very subtle
not what I said or intended.  Angel gets a pass from the usual frankment that most everyone else faces.  Fair enough?
I get what you are saying  ;)  ;)  ;)
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Als Roommate on February 26, 2012, 01:40:43 PM
Will needs to play 40 minutes a game.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Panjandrum on February 26, 2012, 01:47:08 PM
People need to quit transferring their disappointment of Angel into hate for Sprads.  The critical point people here fail to realize is that Sprads is what he is and for the past few months has not be relied on as a play maker.  Guess what, Frank is treating him like the majority of the team.  Angel has been getting special treatment and has been getting a pass from the usual in game Frankment.  Angel has been doing a terrible job of picking which side of screens to go through and his decisions as a point guard have unequivocally cost us game.  On the flip side the majority of his on ball defense has been good, not even comparable to sprads, and he has won us several games, on the road with his play, when its within the system (mizzou/Baylor).

Angel gets a pass because the offense completely goes into the garbage when he's not on the floor.

I mean, hey, if we want to completely trash the season to prove points of Angel, whatever, but being that he's the only guard that can create right now, he needs a pass every now and again.
I agree that right now in the season he makes this team go (good and bad).  Without a doubt he has learned lessons by playing through stuff that other players would learn through Frankment on the bench.  But if he is going to get a pass from Frankment, people need to recognize that he needs critical evaluation still.  He still needs to get better on defense with decision making on screens, Mizzou was great, ISU just horrid.  I just wish #teamangel people realized how good he has it, and that he still needs to get a crap ton better to make this team into its fullest potential this season.

I wish people that gave Angel a hard time realized that if he hadn't stepped up his game to the point where it is right now, and he sat the bench as much as they'd like him to for the purposes of "Franking", we'd probably be something like 6-10 instead of 8-8 and a solid lock for the NIT.

Frank is paid to win basketball games, and the only way he can do that is by putting Angel on the floor and rolling the dice with that decision.  With Jones out, he has no other choice.  Period.  /thread
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 26, 2012, 01:48:20 PM
also angel doesn't make as many mistakes that get you "Franked". Idiots.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: ednksu on February 26, 2012, 01:49:38 PM
People need to quit transferring their disappointment of Angel into hate for Sprads.  The critical point people here fail to realize is that Sprads is what he is and for the past few months has not be relied on as a play maker.  Guess what, Frank is treating him like the majority of the team.  Angel has been getting special treatment and has been getting a pass from the usual in game Frankment.  Angel has been doing a terrible job of picking which side of screens to go through and his decisions as a point guard have unequivocally cost us game.  On the flip side the majority of his on ball defense has been good, not even comparable to sprads, and he has won us several games, on the road with his play, when its within the system (mizzou/Baylor).

Angel gets a pass because the offense completely goes into the garbage when he's not on the floor.

I mean, hey, if we want to completely trash the season to prove points of Angel, whatever, but being that he's the only guard that can create right now, he needs a pass every now and again.
I agree that right now in the season he makes this team go (good and bad).  Without a doubt he has learned lessons by playing through stuff that other players would learn through Frankment on the bench.  But if he is going to get a pass from Frankment, people need to recognize that he needs critical evaluation still.  He still needs to get better on defense with decision making on screens, Mizzou was great, ISU just horrid.  I just wish #teamangel people realized how good he has it, and that he still needs to get a crap ton better to make this team into its fullest potential this season.

I wish people that gave Angel a hard time realized that if he hadn't stepped up his game to the point where it is right now, and he sat the bench as much as they'd like him to for the purposes of "Franking", we'd probably be something like 6-10 instead of 8-8 and a solid lock for the NIT.

Frank is paid to win basketball games, and the only way he can do that is by putting Angel on the floor and rolling the dice with that decision.  With Jones out, he has no other choice.  Period.  /thread
Quote from: EDNKSU
Without a doubt he has learned lessons by playing through stuff that other players would learn through Frankment on the bench.
already noted.  He has learned a lot.  Sometimes I wish Frank wouldn't give our bigs like Diaz the Frankment and would let them learn on the court like he has allowed Angel to do. 
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Panjandrum on February 26, 2012, 01:56:10 PM
also angel doesn't make as many mistakes that get you "Franked". Idiots.

No, what mistakes he does make are accentuated by how badly Will is playing, and people who want Spradling to be the next Steve Henson are pounding them into everyone's brain over and over again.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: sys on February 26, 2012, 02:21:18 PM
The critical point people here fail to realize is that Sprads is what he is and for the past few months has not be relied on as a play maker.

if spradling is what he is, then he shouldn't play.  i can live with him not being able to score off the bounce like i thought he could.  i can even live with him being so afraid of getting his crap thrown that he catches an open layup off a cut and tosses it back out instead of going up.  but if he can't shoot 3s, then he's not a big 12 starter.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: SkinnyBenny on February 26, 2012, 02:52:13 PM
Reading this thread brings up an interesting question. Who has been the most polarizing JYQ@ within the last 10 years or so to goEMAW posters as a whole? What about of all sports? (Probably Queso.) 
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 26, 2012, 02:57:11 PM
A slightly better effort than woeful on the part of Sprads and K-State probably wins yesterday.

But don't blame Sprads, blame Frank for his $hitty recruiting and the fact that Sprads played 29 minutes.

Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: felix rex on February 26, 2012, 05:22:30 PM
Angel and JO's last few games totally cured any meltdown in me this season. They just make me so happy to be cat fan.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: ednksu on February 26, 2012, 05:34:30 PM
I think this is a talking point completely underused by #teamangel: He is remaking clown shoes into a legit center.  DOB's offensive renascence is directly attributed to Angel looking for him in new ways.  I would say that has also led to a better defensive effort from JO as well. 
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kso_FAN on February 26, 2012, 07:09:15 PM
if spradling is what he is, then he shouldn't play.  i can live with him not being able to score off the bounce like i thought he could.  i can even live with him being so afraid of getting his crap thrown that he catches an open layup off a cut and tosses it back out instead of going up.  but if he can't shoot 3s, then he's not a big 12 starter.

This is where I'm at. He's had 3 good shooting games (aTm, @UT, MU) in Big 12 play. That isn't enough considering the other things he brings to the table.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: j-dub on February 26, 2012, 08:52:04 PM
could not be more #teamangel or more #teamrunspradsoffteamihatehim

also. skinny and ednksu.. there aren't enough facepalms in all the world.. not even close.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Winters on February 26, 2012, 08:55:07 PM
could not be more #teamangel or more #teamrunspradsoffteamihatehim

also. skinny and ednksu.. there aren't enough facepalms in all the world.. not even close.
I am #TeamJOgel
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: j-dub on February 26, 2012, 09:04:21 PM
could not be more #teamangel or more #teamrunspradsoffteamihatehim

also. skinny and ednksu.. there aren't enough facepalms in all the world.. not even close.
I am #TeamJOgel
:thumbs:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Cartierfor3 on February 26, 2012, 11:31:57 PM
could not be more #teamangel or more #teamrunspradsoffteamihatehim

also. skinny and ednksu.. there aren't enough facepalms in all the world.. not even close.

So without Sprads what guards do you expect to play next year?
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: ednksu on February 26, 2012, 11:37:23 PM
could not be more #teamangel or more #teamrunspradsoffteamihatehim

also. skinny and ednksu.. there aren't enough facepalms in all the world.. not even close.
weird, I really thought that Angel had helped JO improve.  I guess you have some other reason for JO being less shitty on the offensive side?
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: CNS on February 27, 2012, 10:07:34 AM
could not be more #teamangel or more #teamrunspradsoffteamihatehim

also. skinny and ednksu.. there aren't enough facepalms in all the world.. not even close.
weird, I really thought that Angel had helped JO improve.  I guess you have some other reason for JO being less shitty on the offensive side?

No question that Angel is creating for JO.  JO isn't completely innocent, he is getting where he should be, but Angel is taking the ball handling and post moves part of it out.  JO is showing very nice hands and great timing, though.  The combo of these two will be a very big reason for any success we have going forward this year as well as next.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: mocat on February 27, 2012, 10:59:12 AM
Guys, as much as it pains me to say it, (and it does pain me to say it) Taytay had maybe his worst game of the season. Just a zero out there on Saturday  :frown:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: SkinnyBenny on February 27, 2012, 06:02:08 PM
No question that Angel is creating for JO.  JO isn't completely innocent, he is getting where he should be, but Angel is taking the ball handling and post moves part of it out.  JO is showing very nice hands and great timing, though.  The combo of these two will be a very big reason for any success we have going forward this year as well as next.

This is v. true.  And man. When JO has a big game, when he's knockin' down elbow jumpers and bein' a force and swooshin' free throws and dunkin' on bitches? Well I just feel like I can fly.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Stevesie60 on February 27, 2012, 06:05:42 PM
If JO is DOB, is Angel AOOB?
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: sys on February 27, 2012, 08:04:24 PM
If JO is DOB, is Angel AOOB?

ar-t is 95, if you replace getting to the rim with lobbing at the rim.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: CNS on February 28, 2012, 09:01:11 AM
95 would have been so entertaining this year.  would have been nice to keep him instead of grabbing Omari.  Might have actually gotten some PT out of a scholarship guard.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kougar24 on February 28, 2012, 08:22:39 PM
Nice free throws down the stretch, PG (and all season).   :flush: :flush: :flush: :flush: :flush:

Angel definitely lost us the game

(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftyhowardseminars.com%2Fimages%2F101011.gif&hash=e858d5f1f29e81aa990d7ea6bf08cd9d9641eba3)
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: gatoveintisiete on February 28, 2012, 09:34:52 PM
If JO is DOB, is Angel AOOB?

Clearly this is a fantastic new term, statmongers need to create a new stat tho....AOOB%
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kso_FAN on February 28, 2012, 10:02:50 PM
If JO is DOB, is Angel AOOB?

Clearly this is a fantastic new term, statmongers need to create a new stat tho....AOOB%

I like this...
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: steve dave on February 29, 2012, 07:34:33 AM
Quote from:  bp
he is a tuff ass gym rat = only get better
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: pissclams on February 29, 2012, 08:55:56 AM
that's our fran

(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg804.imageshack.us%2Fimg804%2F7757%2Farth.jpg&hash=ac32e12d5e3c1b9524791f65e5d708a2e0863428)
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 29, 2012, 01:33:10 PM
In conference games, Angel is 3rd in the league in Assist% and 2nd in Steal%.  :cool:

http://statsheet.com/mcb/conferences/big-12/player_stats?season=2011-2012&stat=5

http://statsheet.com/mcb/conferences/big-12/player_stats?season=2011-2012&stat=4
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: steve dave on February 29, 2012, 01:34:26 PM
In conference games, Angel is 3rd in the league in Assist% and 2nd in Steal%.  :cool:

http://statsheet.com/mcb/conferences/big-12/player_stats?season=2011-2012&stat=5

http://statsheet.com/mcb/conferences/big-12/player_stats?season=2011-2012&stat=4

 :thumbs:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Winters on February 29, 2012, 01:38:02 PM
Quote from:  bp
he is a tuff ass gym rat = only get better
Angel is a spark plug on the court.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: WillieWatanabe on February 29, 2012, 01:41:28 PM
In conference games, Angel is 3rd in the league in Assist% and 2nd in Steal%.  :cool:

http://statsheet.com/mcb/conferences/big-12/player_stats?season=2011-2012&stat=5

http://statsheet.com/mcb/conferences/big-12/player_stats?season=2011-2012&stat=4

obviously smoke and mirrors. obviously.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: CNS on February 29, 2012, 01:44:43 PM
This has gotta be killing the tucks/racist townies
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: steve dave on February 29, 2012, 01:45:58 PM
guy from gpc made this

(https://p.twimg.com/Am1jyrwCMAAEsiJ.jpg:large)
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: kso_FAN on February 29, 2012, 02:00:21 PM
That's nice, but the guy could've just gone to statsheet and clicked 3 or 4 links to get the same information.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=jacob-pullen&i=1&jacob-pullen=2007-2008&p1=angel-rodriguez
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: sys on February 29, 2012, 03:02:04 PM
people are starting to scout him.  a sign of respect, but he needs to diversify his game in response.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on February 29, 2012, 03:18:50 PM
people are starting to scout him.  a sign of respect, but he needs to diversify his game in response.

yeah, ISU especially did a nice job on him.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Bill Clarahan on March 08, 2012, 12:03:17 PM
OK dumbasses Bob Knight says Angel sucks, so there ya go :dunno:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: PowercatPat on March 08, 2012, 12:36:20 PM
OK dumbasses Bob Knight says Angel sucks, so there ya go :dunno:

He also thinks Spradler is good.
Title: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: puniraptor on March 08, 2012, 03:55:34 PM
Radio heads said angel/Frank had a sideline blowout? Deets?

(didn't get to watch. stupid work)
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: SdK on March 08, 2012, 03:56:59 PM
Radio heads said angel/Frank had a sideline blowout? Deets?

(didn't get to watch. stupid work)

In the first half before a tv timeout, Frank was sitting down, and Angel stormed by him and flung his arm. I've never seen Frank jump out of his seat and head after a guy like that. Then it went to commercial before he caught up with him :dunno:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: OK_Cat on March 08, 2012, 03:59:40 PM
OMG, Frank yelled at a guy during a timeout?

Call the media! 


 :dubious:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: CNS on March 08, 2012, 04:02:23 PM
How bad will Angel's eye hernia be during the next OOC?
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: michigancat on March 08, 2012, 04:15:49 PM
It was a complete non-issue.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: steve dave on March 08, 2012, 04:18:03 PM
Radio heads said angel/Frank had a sideline blowout? Deets?

(didn't get to watch. stupid work)

during a TO frank yelled at angel and angel yelled back and frank pulled him for will.  good call frank, you rough ridin' idiot. 
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: mocat on March 08, 2012, 04:20:15 PM
the harder frank is on his freshman PG, the more K-state records said freshman will have by the time he graduates  :emawkid:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: steve dave on March 08, 2012, 04:21:20 PM
I love how angel doesn't take crap from frank
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: CNS on March 08, 2012, 04:22:19 PM
Angel seems completely unable to feel fear or doubt. 

My fav thing about him.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: steve dave on March 08, 2012, 04:23:13 PM
Angel seems completely unable to feel fear or doubt. 

My fav thing about him.

yep
Title: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: puniraptor on March 08, 2012, 04:35:56 PM
Sounds glorious. He will be so damn cute cutting down those nets from Gip's shoulders.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Trim on March 08, 2012, 05:23:23 PM
It was a complete non-issue.

This, other than Brent and Bob secretly (not really) wanting that mexican benched for any reason they could find.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: Stevesie60 on March 08, 2012, 05:26:32 PM
It was a complete non-issue.

This, other than Brent and Bob secretly (not really) wanting that mexican benched for any reason they could find.

That was ridiculous. I was more mad about that than I was the game.
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: SkinnyBenny on March 08, 2012, 05:57:16 PM
Sounds glorious. He will be so damn cute cutting down those nets from Gip's shoulders.


omg.  :)
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: smith1051 on March 08, 2012, 06:42:09 PM
Did Knight count all 37 dribbles of Angel's on the one possession?    :emawkid:
Title: Re: Angel is absolutely...
Post by: felix rex on March 08, 2012, 06:51:30 PM
It was a complete non-issue.

This, other than Brent and Bob secretly (not really) wanting that mexican benched for any reason they could find.

That was ridiculous. I was more mad about that than I was the game.

It was really quite remarkable. Like the only common ground between Knight and Kentucky.