Frank on 610 Nick Wright @ 10am cst nm

[nicname]

I must say that I love the "Frank Martin leaked this story to JMart" conspiracy theory.  A controversey wouldn't be complete without wild, baseless conspiracy theories.  Keep up the good work, guys!

And for those concluding that Frank Martin is going to leave K-State, I hope you understand that this will happen regardless of what happens with these contract negotiations.  K-State cannot compete with the offer that Frank will eventually get from a richer, more prestigous school.  He's going to leave.  It's just a matter of time.  But these contract negotations are important because they will help to influence whether he leaves sooner or later.

I want to slap you for posting this.  This is the same bs attitude that got us guys like Wooly and Ron Prince.
My guess is that 'Te is the one who leaves KSU within a couple of years.  As soon as that happens that is a lot of money freed up for Frank.  Plus, if we have continued success Frank/KSU will become more of a recruiting force on their own.  

Sure KSU is going to have to step up and give Frank just compensation beforehand, but the real money opens up when we aren't paying Te 500k a year.

My only hope is that ADJC and the new pres. just don't like Frank.  This is my biggest fear.

[nicname]

because, any number offered is more than he's making today.  get into a back and forth w/ Currie during season when he knows he's not going anywhere anyway.  create outrage w/ alumni and fans, force AD to continue pursuing him throughout springtime with offer after offer, each time raising the offer and benefits to he and his staff.  late spring comes, basketball is over, coaches from all around are out of jobs.  ADs from all around start calling frank.  frank isn't worth $760k/yr anymore, he's worth whatever 4 months of negotiating with Currie has gotten him to.

at that point frank forces Currie's hand to pay what the other schools are offering, or something close, or he can choose to leave.

all of this does in no way imply he's trying to leave MHK.

also, black helicopters.

JFC, great post.

[michigancat]

How does this make him more valuable than wins?  If anything, knowing KSU has lowballed and insulted him will cause other schools to think they can get him on the cheap.

ok.  how 'bout back to the original jeffrey martin premise:  martin wants to stay at kstate and get paid lots of money, but currie is an obstacle to that.

If he think currie is a retard, getting a bunch of fans to email him won't make currie not a retard.  Why would you want to work for a retard?

KSU fans didn't think Huggins would leave either. And if you say you did, you are a f*cking liar.

http://www.ksufans.com/forums/index.php?topic=6458.msg64560#msg64560

you're not being serious are you?

I'm serious.  What does he have to gain that hasn't already been gained by his on-court performance?

ok.

1)let's assume that frank and the staff want out. they don't like mhk. the weather. their AD. they are looking for the next step. more money. bigger city. etc. -i would think that this clearly, cleary sends the message to AD's at other schools that kstate is a joke and that they could easily make a run at frank if they want him. they can send out feelers to big boosters. talk to frank via backchannels. whatever. maybe it gets boosters at other schools calling their AD's and going "hey, how about we hire that martin guy and get rid of our current coach." if they want out than there is an advantage to getting this out there. period.

2)assuming they want to stay in mhk for at least another year past this one. getting this out there gets the public on franks side. puts a new AD on the defensive. rallies the troops. gets people talking about facilities. sends a clear, clear message to Currie that ksu people want and expect currie to do whatever he has to, to keep frank here. increases donations in an attempt to keep frank. most ksu fans did not know that he was THE lowest paid coach in the big12. they do now.

3) in both scenarios it kind of makes currie look like a b00b, which is a probably a pretty good feeling for frank given that the man insulted the crap out of him by offering him a cost of living raise that would have kept his salary in line with with the retard pile at the back of the big 12 (doc,bzd and mckneck).

Everything you mentioned could have been done in private w/ basically the same result.  You could argue that Martin privately putting out feelers w/o an "I am insulted by KSU's offer" feel could be even more effective for his market value.

[sonofdaxjones]

A $40K annual "cost of living" raise.

Fascinating.

[Rick Daris]

How does this make him more valuable than wins?  If anything, knowing KSU has lowballed and insulted him will cause other schools to think they can get him on the cheap.

ok.  how 'bout back to the original jeffrey martin premise:  martin wants to stay at kstate and get paid lots of money, but currie is an obstacle to that.

If he think currie is a retard, getting a bunch of fans to email him won't make currie not a retard.  Why would you want to work for a retard?

KSU fans didn't think Huggins would leave either. And if you say you did, you are a f*cking liar.

http://www.ksufans.com/forums/index.php?topic=6458.msg64560#msg64560

you're not being serious are you?

I'm serious.  What does he have to gain that hasn't already been gained by his on-court performance?

ok.

1)let's assume that frank and the staff want out. they don't like mhk. the weather. their AD. they are looking for the next step. more money. bigger city. etc. -i would think that this clearly, cleary sends the message to AD's at other schools that kstate is a joke and that they could easily make a run at frank if they want him. they can send out feelers to big boosters. talk to frank via backchannels. whatever. maybe it gets boosters at other schools calling their AD's and going "hey, how about we hire that martin guy and get rid of our current coach." if they want out than there is an advantage to getting this out there. period.

2)assuming they want to stay in mhk for at least another year past this one. getting this out there gets the public on franks side. puts a new AD on the defensive. rallies the troops. gets people talking about facilities. sends a clear, clear message to Currie that ksu people want and expect currie to do whatever he has to, to keep frank here. increases donations in an attempt to keep frank. most ksu fans did not know that he was THE lowest paid coach in the big12. they do now.

3) in both scenarios it kind of makes currie look like a b00b, which is a probably a pretty good feeling for frank given that the man insulted the crap out of him by offering him a cost of living raise that would have kept his salary in line with with the retard pile at the back of the big 12 (doc,bzd and mckneck).

Everything you mentioned could have been done in private w/ basically the same result. 

nope. #2 and #3 most def could not have.

[michigancat]

#2 could have, plus the guy doing your negotiations isn't pissed about you leaking negotiations details.

you're right about #3 (I got bored, didn't read #3).  This accomplishes the task of making currie look like a boob more than any other.

[Rick Daris]

A $40K annual "cost of living" raise.

Fascinating.

what's fascinating about it dax?

[Bookcat]

what's frustrating is that all I can do is step aside and let the wealthy wheel and deal...because I'm not a millionaire and all I can do is donate to Ahearn and buy a season ticket. After that I'm tapped out. Can't give KSU any more than that. Sorry. Gotta a cost of living to sustain and a retirement to take care of.

I just don't want to have to go back to the Wooly days of moral victory celebrations and being happy to be on the bubble..and 2 game winning streaks........just not yet. Not next season. Maybe in three seasons...just not now. We've got something building.

[steve dave]

Guys, I'm gonna buy a powerball ticket this week.  Problem may be solved.  Stay tuned...

[NYRoyal]

I must say that I love the "Frank Martin leaked this story to JMart" conspiracy theory.  A controversey wouldn't be complete without wild, baseless conspiracy theories.  Keep up the good work, guys!

And for those concluding that Frank Martin is going to leave K-State, I hope you understand that this will happen regardless of what happens with these contract negotiations.  K-State cannot compete with the offer that Frank will eventually get from a richer, more prestigous school.  He's going to leave.  It's just a matter of time.  But these contract negotations are important because they will help to influence whether he leaves sooner or later.

I want to slap you for posting this.  This is the same bs attitude that got us guys like Wooly and Ron Prince.
My guess is that 'Te is the one who leaves KSU within a couple of years.  As soon as that happens that is a lot of money freed up for Frank.  Plus, if we have continued success Frank/KSU will become more of a recruiting force on their own.  

Sure KSU is going to have to step up and give Frank just compensation beforehand, but the real money opens up when we aren't paying Te 500k a year.

My only hope is that ADJC and the new pres. just don't like Frank.  This is my biggest fear.

I wasn't aware that realism was a "bs attitude."  A year or so from now, Martin will be able to get $1.75M or more per year from a bigger, more prestigous school, plus more money from his coach's TV show, plus more money on the shoe contract, etc.  What attitude overcomes all of that for K-State?  Where is the huge money that is going to overcome all of that and keep Frank here?  Do you think Frank is just going to sit and wait for that assistant to leave so he can get his really big raise from K-State? (which will still be less than he could get elsewhere).  I'm sorry, but reality is reality.

[catzacker]

How does this make him more valuable than wins?  If anything, knowing KSU has lowballed and insulted him will cause other schools to think they can get him on the cheap.

ok.  how 'bout back to the original jeffrey martin premise:  martin wants to stay at kstate and get paid lots of money, but currie is an obstacle to that.

This is what makes me think frank is gone in the near future regardless of any agreement he and currie enter into at the end or during the season.  And for the people that think “well, he would be gone anyways” while that may be true, we’ll never know if he would have stayed based upon some intangible things that he thought he had here (i.e. loyalty, a good relationship with the AD, a real committment, etc.) because our AD decided to throw some asinine number out there to begin with.  It’s completely obvious that Frank wants more money for himself and his staff and has told people (who have then intern told reporters) as such.  He himself just corrected a radio show host to say he’s the lowest paid coach in the big 12.  To me, he’s gone, regardless of the new contract.  The sad thing is we’ll never know if he would have stayed had our AD not been, allegedly, so obtuse.

[nicname]

Because you are basically saying we can't afford to pay Frank 1.5 - 2.0 mill per if and when he is worth it.  That is b.s. IMHO.  You have to spend money to make money and KSU basketball can make a lot of money. 

[NYRoyal]

How does this make him more valuable than wins?  If anything, knowing KSU has lowballed and insulted him will cause other schools to think they can get him on the cheap.

ok.  how 'bout back to the original jeffrey martin premise:  martin wants to stay at kstate and get paid lots of money, but currie is an obstacle to that.

This is what makes me think frank is gone in the near future regardless of any agreement he and currie enter into at the end or during the season.  And for the people that think “well, he would be gone anyways” while that may be true, we’ll never know if he would have stayed based upon some intangible things that he thought he had here (i.e. loyalty, a good relationship with the AD, a real committment, etc.) because our AD decided to throw some asinine number out there to begin with.  It’s completely obvious that Frank wants more money for himself and his staff and has told people (who have then intern told reporters) as such.  He himself just corrected a radio show host to say he’s the lowest paid coach in the big 12.  To me, he’s gone, regardless of the new contract.  The sad thing is we’ll never know if he would have stayed had our AD not been, allegedly, so obtuse.

I don't know why you think the "asinine number" that Currie initially offered Martin in a contract extension negotiation is going to prove to be a more important factor in Frank's eventual decision to leave than the huge number that some other team is going to offer him.  THAT is what is going to make him leave (in addition to the fact that he'll undoubtedly be going to a more prestigous school, not a possible feeling of disrespect from the school at one point in a contract negotiation.  But I guess it is, and will be, more fun to blame the school than to blame the man who will leave to take more money.

[mcmwcat]

A $40K annual "cost of living" raise.

Fascinating.

given your experience with big time negotiations what is the usual cost of living increase?

[sonofdaxjones]

A $40K annual "cost of living" raise.

Fascinating.

what's fascinating about it dax?

Oh, it's just that $40K is in line with the median annual household income in Riley County.    

[NYRoyal]

Because you are basically saying we can't afford to pay Frank 1.5 - 2.0 mill per if and when he is worth it.  That is b.s. IMHO.  You have to spend money to make money and KSU basketball can make a lot of money. 

Do you really know what K-State's men's basketball team's revenue potential is?  And that revenue potential is still mostly potential.  Where does the University get the money in the meantime to pay that huge salary to Martin before the potential is realized?  We're not talking about the expenses of some billionaire professional sports team's owner.  We're talking about a university which is in a difficult financial situation at the moment.  Money doesn't grow on trees.  

[Rick Daris]

A $40K annual "cost of living" raise.

Fascinating.

what's fascinating about it dax?

Oh, it's just that $40K is in line with the median annual household income in Riley County.    

it's also around 5% of his salary. cola. embarassing if true.

[michigancat]

Frank is new to "big-time" negotiations.  This is just his "hey world!  We got Mario Little!" moment.  He will learn from this, and be better for it.  He should have kept his mouth shut.

[catzacker]

How does this make him more valuable than wins?  If anything, knowing KSU has lowballed and insulted him will cause other schools to think they can get him on the cheap.

ok.  how 'bout back to the original jeffrey martin premise:  martin wants to stay at kstate and get paid lots of money, but currie is an obstacle to that.

This is what makes me think frank is gone in the near future regardless of any agreement he and currie enter into at the end or during the season.  And for the people that think “well, he would be gone anyways” while that may be true, we’ll never know if he would have stayed based upon some intangible things that he thought he had here (i.e. loyalty, a good relationship with the AD, a real committment, etc.) because our AD decided to throw some asinine number out there to begin with.  It’s completely obvious that Frank wants more money for himself and his staff and has told people (who have then intern told reporters) as such.  He himself just corrected a radio show host to say he’s the lowest paid coach in the big 12.  To me, he’s gone, regardless of the new contract.  The sad thing is we’ll never know if he would have stayed had our AD not been, allegedly, so obtuse.

I don't know why you think the "asinine number" that Currie initially offered Martin in a contract extension negotiation is going to prove to be a more important factor in Frank's eventual decision to leave than the huge number that some other team is going to offer him.  THAT is what is going to make him leave (in addition to the fact that he'll undoubtedly be going to a more prestigous school, not a possible feeling of disrespect from the school at one point in a contract negotiation.  But I guess it is, and will be, more fun to blame the school than to blame the man who will leave to take more money.

No offense, but you’re just as obtuse as Currie (allegedly) is.  If you’re at a school that has inherent disadvantages to other schools, you don’t piss away the one advantage that your school has.  IMO, your one advantage is that, by all accounts, Frank is a loyal guy, maybe to a fault.  Now, that’s just my opinion, maybe that’s just what I want to believe, but that’s what I believe.  You don’t come at a guy like that and disrespect him.  I'm not saying that this will make him stay, but (a) it wouldn't hurt and (b) it doesn't cost anything more than what you were going to pay anyway.  

[wiley03]

  it's all i got

[michigancat]

Frank shouldn't have considered any raise after last season an insult when he agreed to this deal just a year before:

http://www.kstatesports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=400&ATCLID=1440999

If he accomplished more than a magical NIT victory, he would maybe have a point.

[Bookcat]

Frank shouldn't have considered any raise after last season an insult when he agreed to this deal just a year before:

http://www.kstatesports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=400&ATCLID=1440999

If he accomplished more than a magical NIT victory, he would maybe have a point.

I want to keep Frank, but I like michigancats take as well. Where is Kstate in all of this? Didn't we pledge a five year deal two years ago?

What happened to that plan? Oh, that's right...Frank is having a good year this year so I guess we crumple up that contract and make a new one so he doesn't bolt for greener pastures.

While he deserves and increase...he also deserves to finish out this season and keep off the airwaves about how little he is being paid.

So in short, I'm somewere in between getting him paid at whatever the cost and having him honor a contract he made with Kstate.

[nicname]

Because you are basically saying we can't afford to pay Frank 1.5 - 2.0 mill per if and when he is worth it.  That is b.s. IMHO.  You have to spend money to make money and KSU basketball can make a lot of money. 

Do you really know what K-State's men's basketball team's revenue potential is?  And that revenue potential is still mostly potential.  Where does the University get the money in the meantime to pay that huge salary to Martin before the potential is realized?  We're not talking about the expenses of some billionaire professional sports team's owner.  We're talking about a university which is in a difficult financial situation at the moment.  Money doesn't grow on trees.  

What do you consider a huge salary?  

uk, ku, UCLA, IU, UNC, and probably Duke are the marquee jobs in the country.  This a pretty cut and try.  After that you have the huge budget football schools that also are prone to paying huge salaries to bball coaches, tOSU, UF, UT etc.  IMHO, after these few jobs everyone has the oppy to be in pretty much the same boat.  It all depends on success.  I'm not saying that if one of the schools I mentioned comes calling with offers of 2.5 or 3m per that Frank wouldn't leave.  I'm saying that KSU has every oppy to be competitive in salary with most of the cbb world.  

[sonofdaxjones]

Wow Daris . . . Frank must have a pretty high flying lifestyle.  

He seems more normal to me . . . but hey you never know these days.

Going with Rusty . . .  Frank signs new contract and new extension, has a magical 1 or 2 point NIT victory in Bramlage, then gets worked like a little b_tch out in San Diego . . . but suddenly K-State and Currie  need to slobber all over him with a $2-3-400K pay increase and contract extenstion prior to the season even starting??  

 

[NYRoyal]

How does this make him more valuable than wins?  If anything, knowing KSU has lowballed and insulted him will cause other schools to think they can get him on the cheap.

ok.  how 'bout back to the original jeffrey martin premise:  martin wants to stay at kstate and get paid lots of money, but currie is an obstacle to that.

This is what makes me think frank is gone in the near future regardless of any agreement he and currie enter into at the end or during the season.  And for the people that think “well, he would be gone anyways” while that may be true, we’ll never know if he would have stayed based upon some intangible things that he thought he had here (i.e. loyalty, a good relationship with the AD, a real committment, etc.) because our AD decided to throw some asinine number out there to begin with.  It’s completely obvious that Frank wants more money for himself and his staff and has told people (who have then intern told reporters) as such.  He himself just corrected a radio show host to say he’s the lowest paid coach in the big 12.  To me, he’s gone, regardless of the new contract.  The sad thing is we’ll never know if he would have stayed had our AD not been, allegedly, so obtuse.

I don't know why you think the "asinine number" that Currie initially offered Martin in a contract extension negotiation is going to prove to be a more important factor in Frank's eventual decision to leave than the huge number that some other team is going to offer him.  THAT is what is going to make him leave (in addition to the fact that he'll undoubtedly be going to a more prestigous school, not a possible feeling of disrespect from the school at one point in a contract negotiation.  But I guess it is, and will be, more fun to blame the school than to blame the man who will leave to take more money.

No offense, but you’re just as obtuse as Currie (allegedly) is.  If you’re at a school that has inherent disadvantages to other schools, you don’t piss away the one advantage that your school has.  IMO, your one advantage is that, by all accounts, Frank is a loyal guy, maybe to a fault.  Now, that’s just my opinion, maybe that’s just what I want to believe, but that’s what I believe.  You don’t come at a guy like that and disrespect him.  I'm not saying that this will make him stay, but (a) it wouldn't hurt and (b) it doesn't cost anything more than what you were going to pay anyway.  

I'm not saying that Currie shouldn't have started a little higher, like $1M.  But my point is that you're being obtuse if you think that an initial offer in a contract negotiation is going to be a bigger factor in Frank's eventual decision to leave than the big number he's being offered.  Yes, K-State should maximize the intangibles to foster loyalty.  But don't pretend that those things carry more weight than money.  But, again, no one wants to blame Martin for anything, either now or in the future.  When he leaves to make a lot more money, fans now can blame the University who insulted him by offering him a raise and a contract extension while he was still under contract.  And no one is blaming Martin now for demanding more money from the University even though he's under contract for 2 1/2 more years...a contract he negotiated and signed in good faith.  I guess when a coach is winning, he can do no wrong.

[steve dave]

Who is Frank's agent?  Anyone who represents anyone big timey? 

[Rick Daris]

Frank shouldn't have considered any raise after last season an insult when he agreed to this deal just a year before:
http://www.kstatesports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=400&ATCLID=1440999

that's just when the deal was signed and announced. not when it was agreed to. nice try. 

[nicname]

My question for you Royal is what do you consider "a lot more money?"  

[michigancat]

Frank shouldn't have considered any raise after last season an insult when he agreed to this deal just a year before:

http://www.kstatesports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=400&ATCLID=1440999

If he accomplished more than a magical NIT victory, he would maybe have a point.

I want to keep Frank, but I like michigancats take as well. Where is Kstate in all of this? Didn't we pledge a five year deal two years ago?

What happened to that plan? Oh, that's right...Frank is having a good year this year so I guess we crumple up that contract and make a new one so he doesn't bolt for greener pastures.

I agree 100%.  That is why the timing of the offer is conveniently absent from all the leaks.  Any offer of a raise prior to December 1 should not be insulting.

Frank shouldn't have considered any raise after last season an insult when he agreed to this deal just a year before:
http://www.kstatesports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=400&ATCLID=1440999

that's just when the deal was signed and announced. not when it was agreed to. nice try.  

LOL

Who is Frank's agent?  Anyone who represents anyone big timey?  

Richard Katz.  Represents Huggs.

[NYRoyal]

My question for you Royal is what do you consider "a lot more money?"  

After another year of success, he'll likely have no difficulty getting $1.75M+ from a richer school, as well as more money from the TV show he'll have there, and a bigger shoe contract, etc.