Date: 25/08/25 - 17:59 PM   48060 Topics and 694399 Posts

Author Topic: Gill  (Read 8590 times)

December 15, 2009, 02:45:24 PM
Reply #60

MOKSUAZ

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Their records are comparable, and both walked into absolutely terrible situations. K-State was the worst program in D1A when Snyder inherited it. When K-State got better, Buffalo became that program. Did you know that last year, when Buffalo won five games, it was tied for their second-highest total since they joined D1A? He tied for the lead in his division in his second season and won a freaking conference title in year three. It's not like he's been totally terrible there.

10 years of mediocracy compared to almost an entire century of failure is a little bit much (if you only want to count years being a D-1 school).  

December 15, 2009, 02:48:49 PM
Reply #61

cireksu

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I suppose some people might have higher expectations if your head coach was coming from the MAC.  I mean, if my next head coach was coming from the MAC and had 1 win over a team that finished better than .500, I might have some questions.  But of course, this was just like coming to the Big 8 in the 90s.  Its tough to win there.

god damn it.  Does this hire mean phog's new talking point is that the MAC is now tougher to win in than early 90's big 8 was?



As in 02 big 12 was tougher for mangino than early 90's big 12 was for Snyds?

December 15, 2009, 02:52:44 PM
Reply #62

ksu_FAN

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Pretty clear to me that 08 MAC > 02 Big 12 > 90 Big 8.

December 15, 2009, 02:54:58 PM
Reply #63

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I suppose some people might have higher expectations if your head coach was coming from the MAC.  I mean, if my next head coach was coming from the MAC and had 1 win over a team that finished better than .500, I might have some questions.  But of course, this was just like coming to the Big 8 in the 90s.  Its tough to win there.

god damn it.  Does this hire mean phog's new talking point is that the MAC is now tougher to win in than early 90's big 8 was?


As in 02 big 12 was tougher for mangino than early 90's big 12 was for Snyds?

Not really. Mangino accomplished what he did despite never beating Texas, Oklahoma or Texas Tech, and he didn't beat K-State until 2004, Nebraska until 2005 and Colorado until 2006.

All I'm saying, again, is that you guys are forgetting a sense of perspective.

December 15, 2009, 02:58:43 PM
Reply #64

CatsNShocks

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I suppose some people might have higher expectations if your head coach was coming from the MAC.  I mean, if my next head coach was coming from the MAC and had 1 win over a team that finished better than .500, I might have some questions.  But of course, this was just like coming to the Big 8 in the 90s.  Its tough to win there.

god damn it.  Does this hire mean phog's new talking point is that the MAC is now tougher to win in than early 90's big 8 was?


As in 02 big 12 was tougher for mangino than early 90's big 12 was for Snyds?

Not really. Mangino accomplished what he did despite never beating Texas, Oklahoma or Texas Tech, and he didn't beat K-State until 2004, Nebraska until 2005 and Colorado until 2006.

All I'm saying, again, is that you guys are forgetting a sense of perspective.

And then you idiots fired him...oh, excuse me...he "resigned".
 :thumbsup:

December 15, 2009, 04:25:15 PM
Reply #65

kougar24

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Does flare understand that K-State was lucky as hell Snyder was, well, Snyder, and not like Chuck Long at SDSU or any number of a hundred first-time HCs that failed miserably?

There isn't some magic formula; it's a crapshoot.

December 15, 2009, 04:31:13 PM
Reply #66

bigdeal

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This is more what a coaches record from a smaller (MAC) conference should look like when you hire him:
Year Team Overall Conference Standing Bowl Coaches# AP°
Toledo Rockets (Mid-American Conference) (1991–2000)
1991 Toledo 5-5-1 4-3-1 T-3rd    
1992 Toledo 8-3 5-3 T-3rd    
1993 Toledo 4-7 3-5 T-7th    
1994 Toledo 6-4-1 4-3-1 6th    
1995 Toledo 11-0-1 7-0-1 1st W Las Vegas  24
1996 Toledo 7-4 6-2 T-2nd    
1997 Toledo 9-3 7-1 1st (West)    
1998 Toledo 7-5 6-2 1st (West)    
1999 Toledo 6-5 5-3 T-2nd (West)    
2000 Toledo 10-1 6-1 1st (West)    
Toledo: 73-37-3 53-23-3

Yeah, that's Gary Pinkel.

There is one former BCS Coach that ku could've had....his BCS record is 20-33 in five years at one of the toughest conferences in the nation.  He also inherited a poor program.  As you can see, his BCS record is similar to Gill's 20-30 record at a smaller school.  His name.....Terry Allen.  

Yes, you have us, we are all soooo jealous.  

December 15, 2009, 04:55:21 PM
Reply #67

Legore

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Thoughts on Gill:

1.  He was never anything more then a position coach at NU.  When Solich hired an offensive cordinator prior to his final season Gill wanted the job and should have been in line for it but was passed over for Barney Cotton from New Mexico State.  NU fans all like him and say he'll be good but the truth is they think he is good for a school like Kansas they don't want him as their head coach and never have. 

2.  Comparing what Gill did to what Snyder did is dumb.  Snyder actually turned the program around and sustained it for a long period of time.  Gill hasn't shown he can do that.  Nobody called it the miracle in Manhattan after 4 years when he was 5-6 or whatever because he hadn't done squat yet.  Lots of coaches have taken bad teams and made them competitive or maybe had one good season.  Few have turned it around and sustained a high level over a long period of time.   What Gill did at Buffalo was the easy part that many coaches can do.   Snyder getting it to that point and then going on to win 11 games 6 times in a 7 year stretch is the hard part. 

3.  Comparing the Buffalo program to the KSU program when Gill took over is also dumb.  When Snyder took over KSU was the worst d-1 team in the country and were worse then probably half the 1-aa teams at the time.   We had like 50 players on scholarship when the limit was 95.  The worst team in the MAC would have beat us by 2 TD's and we had to play in the big 8.  No program anywhere has been in that bad of shape relative to the competition in the past 15 years or more. 

4.  Gill might be good but there is really no history that says he can win consistently at ku.  Hiring a coach is always a crapshoot I think it is even more so with Gill because he simply hasn't won big as a head coach and he was never even a cordinator prior to that.   He was at NU for a long time but was never really key to thier success.  Under Osborne Solch was the top offensive assistant and Charlie Mcbride was the top defensive guy.  As stated above even when Solich took over he was never one of his top assistants. 

December 15, 2009, 05:05:41 PM
Reply #68

BMWJhawk

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Seriously, stick with another talking point for Gill other than his stellar record rebuilding Buffalo.  Recruiting or building a staff may be believable.

But come on; 20 wins, 1 a magical win over Ball St, then 2 wins over .500 teams and after that 17 wins over teams that finished below .500.  In the MAC.




How about the fact that Gill coached for a couple national championship teams at Nebraska?  He was also a runner-up for the Heisman.  If the guy was coming to ku as an assistant from Nebraska instead of head coach at Buffalo, everyone would be talking about how this guy is the next rising star in coaching.

December 15, 2009, 05:08:06 PM
Reply #69

steve dave

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Seriously, stick with another talking point for Gill other than his stellar record rebuilding Buffalo.  Recruiting or building a staff may be believable.

But come on; 20 wins, 1 a magical win over Ball St, then 2 wins over .500 teams and after that 17 wins over teams that finished below .500.  In the MAC.

How about the fact that Gill coached for a couple national championship teams at Nebraska?  He was also a runner-up for the Heisman.  If the guy was coming to ku as an assistant from Nebraska instead of head coach at Buffalo, everyone would be talking about how this guy is the next rising star in coaching.

Reading ku fans talking football is so, so great  :love:
<---------Click the ball

December 15, 2009, 05:15:01 PM
Reply #70

cireksu

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Der der der der compare a score, der der der

December 15, 2009, 05:18:29 PM
Reply #71

ksu_FAN

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Seriously, stick with another talking point for Gill other than his stellar record rebuilding Buffalo.  Recruiting or building a staff may be believable.

But come on; 20 wins, 1 a magical win over Ball St, then 2 wins over .500 teams and after that 17 wins over teams that finished below .500.  In the MAC.


How about the fact that Gill coached for a couple national championship teams at Nebraska?  He was also a runner-up for the Heisman.  If the guy was coming to ku as an assistant from Nebraska instead of head coach at Buffalo, everyone would be talking about how this guy is the next rising star in coaching.

Well its a heck of a lot better than talking up his stellar rebuilding job at Buffalo.

Now, if he was coming as a coordinator from Nebraska, its a very good talking point.  But just as an assistant; I don't know.  How many other BCS schools hired guys that were not coordinators at another BCS school to be their head coach?  

Now, very successful BCS assistant to mildly successful mid-major coach is decent, but I'm still having a hard time finding this as a real good deal to replace a guy that was NCOY 2 years ago.  

:dunno:

December 15, 2009, 05:40:34 PM
Reply #72

flaredog

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Thoughts on Gill:

1.  He was never anything more then a position coach at NU.  When Solich hired an offensive cordinator prior to his final season Gill wanted the job and should have been in line for it but was passed over for Barney Cotton from New Mexico State.  NU fans all like him and say he'll be good but the truth is they think he is good for a school like Kansas they don't want him as their head coach and never have. 

2.  Comparing what Gill did to what Snyder did is dumb.  Snyder actually turned the program around and sustained it for a long period of time.  Gill hasn't shown he can do that.  Nobody called it the miracle in Manhattan after 4 years when he was 5-6 or whatever because he hadn't done squat yet.  Lots of coaches have taken bad teams and made them competitive or maybe had one good season.  Few have turned it around and sustained a high level over a long period of time.   What Gill did at Buffalo was the easy part that many coaches can do.   Snyder getting it to that point and then going on to win 11 games 6 times in a 7 year stretch is the hard part. 

3.  Comparing the Buffalo program to the KSU program when Gill took over is also dumb.  When Snyder took over KSU was the worst d-1 team in the country and were worse then probably half the 1-aa teams at the time.   We had like 50 players on scholarship when the limit was 95.  The worst team in the MAC would have beat us by 2 TD's and we had to play in the big 8.  No program anywhere has been in that bad of shape relative to the competition in the past 15 years or more. 

4.  Gill might be good but there is really no history that says he can win consistently at ku.  Hiring a coach is always a crapshoot I think it is even more so with Gill because he simply hasn't won big as a head coach and he was never even a cordinator prior to that.   He was at NU for a long time but was never really key to thier success.  Under Osborne Solch was the top offensive assistant and Charlie Mcbride was the top defensive guy.  As stated above even when Solich took over he was never one of his top assistants. 


That's actually a well-thought out post. Congrats. Much, much better than: "dude is Terry Allen because he has a bad record, lollercopters!!!" which completely ignores the fact that Allen took over a program two years removed from a top-10 ranking, while Gill inherited a program that hadn't won four games in a season in the eight years (when they joined 1A) prior to him taking over. NOTE: I think I accidentally said seven years earlier.

It's not easy to take a bad team and make them decent. I'll agree that it's harder to take a mediocre team and make them perennial contenders, but let's not act like Gill didn't do anything while he was at Buffalo.

But the people who call Gill a bad coach based on his record are completely neglecting where the program was when he took it over. Which is typical, for an opposing fanbase. He inherited a team that had won 12 games over the past eight years and won 13 over his last two.

December 15, 2009, 05:52:39 PM
Reply #73

ksu_FAN

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Nobody said Gill will be a horrid coach, he just doesn't strike me as an impressive hire.  This reminds me quite a bit of Asbury to Wooldride; fire the guy with mild success, but a bad personality and replace him with a heck of a nice guy.  We'll see if it turns out similar.

December 15, 2009, 07:33:12 PM
Reply #74

BMWJhawk

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Gill is going to kill it on the recruiting trail. 

December 15, 2009, 07:35:42 PM
Reply #75

MadCat

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Gill is going to kill it on the recruiting trail. 

I hope he removes it from the road, 'cause I don't want to run over it too.  :yuck: :piratecaptain:

December 15, 2009, 07:41:29 PM
Reply #76

ew2x4

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Gill is going to kill it on the recruiting trail. 

I'm just waiting on the moment when you realize KSU fans have said all of this before.

December 15, 2009, 08:10:59 PM
Reply #77

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Gill is going to kill it on the recruiting trail. 

I'm just waiting on the moment when you realize KSU fans have said all of this before.

And Prince had actually put guys in the league.

December 15, 2009, 10:11:05 PM
Reply #78

BMWJhawk

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Prince was an unproven assistant from Virginia.  No comparison to what Gill did at Nebraska and Buffalo.  Gill was also runner-up for the Heisman.  The only similarity between Gill and Prince is race.

December 15, 2009, 10:15:59 PM
Reply #79

fatty fat fat

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i really think gill sucks.

but lmao@ the prince hire. the guys had literally no resume.
It is a tragedy because now, we have at least an extra month without Cat football until next year. I hate wasting my life away but I can hardly wait until next year.

December 15, 2009, 10:18:19 PM
Reply #80

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Prince was an unproven assistant from Virginia.  No comparison to what Gill did at Nebraska and Buffalo.  Gill was also runner-up for the Heisman.  The only similarity between Gill and Prince is race.

Long was a Heisman runner up too and crashed horribly as a head coach.

December 15, 2009, 10:23:28 PM
Reply #81

BMWJhawk

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Well, that's why Long will be o-coordinator. ... not head coach.  It never hurts to have assistants with head coach experience.

December 15, 2009, 10:24:08 PM
Reply #82

fatty fat fat

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3rd and long chuck long. lmao.
It is a tragedy because now, we have at least an extra month without Cat football until next year. I hate wasting my life away but I can hardly wait until next year.

December 15, 2009, 10:31:31 PM
Reply #83

BMWJhawk

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OU fans were glad to see Mangino go as well.  At least Long knows what it takes to win in the Big 12.

December 15, 2009, 10:34:58 PM
Reply #84

fatty fat fat

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wrong. ou fans still regard mangino in a positive light. long was a disaster @ ou.

It is a tragedy because now, we have at least an extra month without Cat football until next year. I hate wasting my life away but I can hardly wait until next year.

December 16, 2009, 12:58:31 AM
Reply #85

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Gill is going to kill it on the recruiting trail. 


LOL.

Because he's black right? 

Bwwwwwahahahahaha.  :rofl:

December 16, 2009, 01:31:28 AM
Reply #86

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Prince was an unproven assistant from Virginia.  No comparison to what Gill did at Nebraska and Buffalo.  Gill was also runner-up for the Heisman.  The only similarity between Gill and Prince is race.

How does Gill have a proven track record at recruiting?

December 16, 2009, 06:30:41 AM
Reply #87

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You know what I like about the Gill hire?  His choice of Coordinators.  It's not like he hired a young bud foster or an Andy Ludwig/Billy Gonzalez type.  That's what I was probably the most worried about.

December 16, 2009, 09:47:43 AM
Reply #88

kougar24

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OU fans were glad to see Mangino go as well.

Anyone else see the incredible irony here?

December 16, 2009, 10:41:12 AM
Reply #89

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Mangino helped them win Stoop's only MNC. Stoopid chickenhawk.
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