Still Getting Heat from Ron's Firing

[McLovin]

Dorrell couldn't win at UCLA. Willingham couldn't win at Notre Dame or Washington. Sometimes a guy just can't coach and it has nothing to do with where he is or what color he is. Great coaches will be successful wherever they are. It sounds to me like Barkley is making excuses for the ones that fail at harder places to win but at the same time ignoring the ones that fail at very good jobs. Black coaches, like white, will weed themselves out. Prince, Willingham, Dorrell, Croom, etc., weeded themselves back to easier courses where some should have started to begin with.

This is exactly my point about the NFL.  The NFL has done WAY more to prepare minority coaches for success.  The NCAA just basically throws all the coaches into the same meat-grinder. 

[Oklahoma_Cat]

The best part of this crap thread was when J-Mart absolutely owned opcat without even trying.

 

[1albatross]

The truth is that race is always going to be an issue.  It is more of an issue to black people than it is to white.  See this years presidential election for an example (over 95% of black people voted for Obama and so did almost 50% of the white people).

It's not the jobs that the coaches are getting, it is the performance on the job.  Every black K-Stater I talked with agreed with me that it was time for Ron to go.  Prince was not ready for a BCS job as his first head coaching job.  John Blake wasn't ready for OU.  Dorrell wasn't ready for UCLA.  Willingham had success at Stanford but not Notre Dame and definitely not Washington.  Dennis Green was successful at Stanford also.  Randy Shannon is getting his shot at Miami.  that is looking pretty good so far.  

Turner Gill has done a fantastic job at Buffalo and may be ready for a BCS job.  I think he should stay where he is another year and then see what top BCS jobs open up.  Notre Dame might be open next year.  I don't think he should take a job at a place like Mississippi State or a Syracuse.  Of course I would say the exact same thing about a hot white coaching prospect (Venables).

I think coaches such as Prince, Blake, and Dorrel might have met with more success had they taken the route Turner Gill has taken and started their head coaching careers at a Buffalo, or a Ball State, or much like every hot basketball coach at Tulsa.  This may be the reason that Venables has been passed over for so long also.

That being said...Auburn should have taken a harder look at Gill b/c I think that could have been a good fit.

[rjd27]

Dorrell couldn't win at UCLA. Willingham couldn't win at Notre Dame or Washington. Sometimes a guy just can't coach and it has nothing to do with where he is or what color he is. Great coaches will be successful wherever they are. It sounds to me like Barkley is making excuses for the ones that fail at harder places to win but at the same time ignoring the ones that fail at very good jobs. Black coaches, like white, will weed themselves out. Prince, Willingham, Dorrell, Croom, etc., weeded themselves back to easier courses where some should have started to begin with.

Great points. Actually, Barkley is as wrong as he can be. New Mexico, Buffalo -- maybe K-State, but any major conference program is borderline, even Iowa State -- are the schools where any coach - black or white - should hone their coaching chops. Willingham had already won at Stanford. I'm not convinced he wouldn't have won at ND, if given a couple more years. Not sure what happened in WU, but that whole state is having sports trouble.
Ron Prince was simply not ready to be a head coach, especially in a major conference. It is up to schools to hire qualified coaches, but it also up to the coaches to take the right jobs. Accepting a head coaching position just to be a head coach is probably not going to work out - and that is what is happening.

[catzacker]

Funny how no one in the media brings up  that blacks have more than half of the jobs in the nfl.

Instead we are hearing how evil whitey is being bad again.

The affirmative action parade will never end until people with backbones stand up to it.

actually, what people in the media fail to bring up is the lack of black coordinators. Look around the Big 12....who has a black coordinator...Shawn Watson at NU...O'Neil at TT.....who else am I missing?  I think that might be it.  there's 24 positions in the big 12...That's 1/12.....or 8%.

the coaches aren't really helping a brutha out. 

[Cougar2k]

Ordinarily i hate the race card, but in this particular case i would agree with him. Is Chezik really more qualified for than Gil?

[rjd27]

Ordinarily i hate the race card, but in this particular case i would agree with him. Is Chezik really more qualified for than Gil?

Turner Gil is winning. The more apt comparison is Chizik vs. Ron Prince.  The only thing Chizik has going for him is that he coached on two teams that went undefeated or won the national title (Auburn and Texas).

[opcat]

The comparisons to the NFL are ridiculous.  It's two different games.  For one, the NFL has done a much better job of preparing minority coaches for success.  Has the NCAA ever had a program like the NFL's minority coaching internships?  Look at all the coaches that got their start in the NFL through the minority programs- Dungy, Marvin Lewis, Lovie Smith, Ron Rivera, Mike Tomlin, etc.

The problem isn't that universities aren't doing enough, it's that the NCAA DIDN'T do enough 20 years ago to lay the groundwork like the NFL did.

And don't tell me that the "Rooney Rule" is the reason for the disparity between NFL and College.  The "Rooney Rule" doesn't mean teams HAVE to hire minority coaches, only that they need to be considered.  It's all about establishing programs to give young coaches opportunities as position coaches, then allowing them to grow.  NCAA has been a failure at this.

you don't get it. why should the ncaa  have some minority program when MOST of the players are black and MOST of the students are white or another race other than black. The best should ALWAYS get the job.  Ask yourself why blacks are CRAP coaches.  Why do they need special programs?  Looks  retardish  to me.  Someone should tell them to F_CK OFF.  If you don't like it then don't watch or play in the ncaa or nfl.  Go form your own black schools with black coaches.  

[opcat]

charles barkley..........racist.........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxuynicf9rI
channeling ron burgundy

has white wife.   

[Oklahoma_Cat]

The comparisons to the NFL are ridiculous.  It's two different games.  For one, the NFL has done a much better job of preparing minority coaches for success.  Has the NCAA ever had a program like the NFL's minority coaching internships?  Look at all the coaches that got their start in the NFL through the minority programs- Dungy, Marvin Lewis, Lovie Smith, Ron Rivera, Mike Tomlin, etc.

The problem isn't that universities aren't doing enough, it's that the NCAA DIDN'T do enough 20 years ago to lay the groundwork like the NFL did.

And don't tell me that the "Rooney Rule" is the reason for the disparity between NFL and College.  The "Rooney Rule" doesn't mean teams HAVE to hire minority coaches, only that they need to be considered.  It's all about establishing programs to give young coaches opportunities as position coaches, then allowing them to grow.  NCAA has been a failure at this.

you don't get it. why should the ncaa  have some minority program when MOST of the players are black and MOST of the students are white or another race other than black. The best should ALWAYS get the job.  Ask yourself why blacks are CRAP coaches.  Why do they need special programs?  Looks  retardish  to me.  Someone should tell them to F_CK OFF.  If you don't like it then don't watch or play in the ncaa or nfl.  Go form your own black schools with black coaches.  

The more you post, the more I'm sure that you are just looking to get a reaction out of people.  Nobody can be that racist and figure out how to run a computer.

[opcat]

The comparisons to the NFL are ridiculous.  It's two different games.  For one, the NFL has done a much better job of preparing minority coaches for success.  Has the NCAA ever had a program like the NFL's minority coaching internships?  Look at all the coaches that got their start in the NFL through the minority programs- Dungy, Marvin Lewis, Lovie Smith, Ron Rivera, Mike Tomlin, etc.

The problem isn't that universities aren't doing enough, it's that the NCAA DIDN'T do enough 20 years ago to lay the groundwork like the NFL did.

And don't tell me that the "Rooney Rule" is the reason for the disparity between NFL and College.  The "Rooney Rule" doesn't mean teams HAVE to hire minority coaches, only that they need to be considered.  It's all about establishing programs to give young coaches opportunities as position coaches, then allowing them to grow.  NCAA has been a failure at this.

you don't get it. why should the ncaa  have some minority program when MOST of the players are black and MOST of the students are white or another race other than black. The best should ALWAYS get the job.  Ask yourself why blacks are CRAP coaches.  Why do they need special programs?  Looks  retardish  to me.  Someone should tell them to F_CK OFF.  If you don't like it then don't watch or play in the ncaa or nfl.  Go form your own black schools with black coaches.  

The more you post, the more I'm sure that you are just looking to get a reaction out of people.  Nobody can be that racist and figure out how to run a computer.

You people =   

you'll never understand a free society.  Keep trying. someday you'll get it.

[McLovin]

The comparisons to the NFL are ridiculous.  It's two different games.  For one, the NFL has done a much better job of preparing minority coaches for success.  Has the NCAA ever had a program like the NFL's minority coaching internships?  Look at all the coaches that got their start in the NFL through the minority programs- Dungy, Marvin Lewis, Lovie Smith, Ron Rivera, Mike Tomlin, etc.

The problem isn't that universities aren't doing enough, it's that the NCAA DIDN'T do enough 20 years ago to lay the groundwork like the NFL did.

And don't tell me that the "Rooney Rule" is the reason for the disparity between NFL and College.  The "Rooney Rule" doesn't mean teams HAVE to hire minority coaches, only that they need to be considered.  It's all about establishing programs to give young coaches opportunities as position coaches, then allowing them to grow.  NCAA has been a failure at this.

you don't get it. why should the ncaa  have some minority program when MOST of the players are black and MOST of the students are white or another race other than black. The best should ALWAYS get the job.  Ask yourself why blacks are CRAP coaches.  Why do they need special programs?  Looks  retardish  to me.  Someone should tell them to F_CK OFF.  If you don't like it then don't watch or play in the ncaa or nfl.  Go form your own black schools with black coaches.  

Just sayin' it is what it is.  The NFL established minority programs.  NCAA did not.  Here are the results 20-odd years later.  Not arguing what is right or wrong- just pointing out the results.  Like I said, the NFL and CFB are two different beasts.

I am all in favor of schools hiring the best candidate, and I believe that by-and-large, that is what is happening.  I really don't think there is a lot of racism involved with coaching hires in college.  Catzacker is on the right track here, and that's what I'm saying.  The NFL did a much better job of creating new opportunities for minorities, so now the NFL has a larger/more qualified pool of minority coordinators.  Coordinator=future head coach.

Universities are choosing the best coach for the job from the pool of available and qualified candidates- same for the NFL.  The difference is that the available pool for NFL is more diverse because of the additional minority efforts. 

I'd love to hear TP's thoughts.

[opcat]

Ordinarily i hate the race card, but in this particular case i would agree with him. Is Chezik really more qualified for than Gil?

This is typical of people who don't understand the process.  Turner Gill is a jesus freak and forces his team to pray. 

That could be part of the decision and his 8-5 record isn't great.  http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/clubhouse?teamId=2084.   The win over ballst. was fluky. Alot of To's by ballst.  They lose the game without them.  Some of the To's happened near the redzone for Ballst too.  Play that game over 5 game series then Ball ST wins most of them.

Ball St. assistant probably a better hire.

[frankencat]

I don't know if Sir Charles knows football but he knows food

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mL6xmjbl-HY

[hemmy]

Ordinarily i hate the race card, but in this particular case i would agree with him. Is Chezik really more qualified for than Gil?

This is typical of people who don't understand the process.  Turner Gill is a jesus freak and forces his team to pray. 

That could be part of the decision and his 8-5 record isn't great.  http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/clubhouse?teamId=2084.   The win over ballst. was fluky. Alot of To's by ballst.  They lose the game without them.  Some of the To's happened near the redzone for Ballst too.  Play that game over 5 game series then Ball ST wins most of them.

Ball St. assistant probably a better hire.

Stan Parrish?

Also, if we want equality then 12% of coaches should be black, 75% should be white etc. etc.

[The Nasti]

I wish teams gave more white guys scholarships 

We had those for about 200 years...

[The Nasti]

Why does everyone here meltdown when someone brings up race in relation to anything?   

Because there are a ton of K-State fans who are so retarded that they actually believe that white people are the one's who are discriminated against.

Ha...could not have said it better myself.

 

[The Nasti]

The comparisons to the NFL are ridiculous.  It's two different games.  For one, the NFL has done a much better job of preparing minority coaches for success.  Has the NCAA ever had a program like the NFL's minority coaching internships?  Look at all the coaches that got their start in the NFL through the minority programs- Dungy, Marvin Lewis, Lovie Smith, Ron Rivera, Mike Tomlin, etc.

The problem isn't that universities aren't doing enough, it's that the NCAA DIDN'T do enough 20 years ago to lay the groundwork like the NFL did.

And don't tell me that the "Rooney Rule" is the reason for the disparity between NFL and College.  The "Rooney Rule" doesn't mean teams HAVE to hire minority coaches, only that they need to be considered.  It's all about establishing programs to give young coaches opportunities as position coaches, then allowing them to grow.  NCAA has been a failure at this.

you don't get it. why should the ncaa  have some minority program when MOST of the players are black and MOST of the students are white or another race other than black. The best should ALWAYS get the job.  Ask yourself why blacks are CRAP coaches.  Why do they need special programs?  Looks  retardish  to me.  Someone should tell them to F_CK OFF.  If you don't like it then don't watch or play in the ncaa or nfl.  Go form your own black schools with black coaches.  

The more you post, the more I'm sure that you are just looking to get a reaction out of people.  Nobody can be that racist and figure out how to run a computer.

You people =   

you'll never understand a free society.  Keep trying. someday you'll get it.

Where is your utopia and how can I get there?

[opcat]

Why does everyone here meltdown when someone brings up race in relation to anything?   

Because there are a ton of K-State fans who are so retarded that they actually believe that white people are the one's who are discriminated against.

Ha...could not have said it better myself.

 

Having so many black players play on every football team is discrimination against whites.

Most Black coaches are discriminated against because they SUCK and DON'T deserve the job.

Can't wait for the  barack antiracism program to force schools to hire more Ron Princes! Good times coming. 

[hemmy]

I wish teams gave more white guys scholarships 

We had those for about 200 years...

I was being sarcastic FWIW

[Aggieville101]

says Tunner Gill got hosed out of Auburn job because hes black...then goes on to say he could of won at Auburn and He had no chance to win a Kansas State....

[phicat1448]

this thread is turrible you knuckleheads

[hemmy]

Isn't Obama like 1/2 white, 1/2 black

Not really a "black" president IMO

why the other half of his ethnicity gets left off

[fatty fat fat]

damnit barkely. why did you have to say that? does he not realize he's hurting people's feelings when he says stuff like that?

you can win here. we have nbaf now, which should help.

[hemmy]

With mutant sized, "Space Jam" type players

[Jethopper]

This is ridiculous.  Charles is not worth discussing.

      Just listen to these gems:

       "Politics is too corrupt" - Charles "The Lieutenant of Lexicon" Barkley

       "If god's so good, how come he didn't give you a jump shot?" - Charles "The Sultan of Similes" Barkley

       "If somebody hits you with an object you should beat the hell out of them."  - Charles "The Magistrate of Metaphors" Barkley

       "I don't know what that gas is made of." - Charles "The Admiral of Adjectives" Barkley

       "I think the team that wins Game 5 will win the series; unless we lose Game 5." - Charles "The Prince of Palindromes" Barkley

Charles said the goal of the '92 Olympic Dream Team playing Panama in the Tournament of the Americas was: "To get the Canal back."

[yoga-lika_abana]

OT who remembers this game

[The Oracle]

Didn't that one dude lose horribly at ND.  That's a pretty elite job.

Just like the fat white guy is now. But he got the 10 year extension at 4mm per while that "one dude" got gassed (used the term for the Hitler lovers on this board). ND has become a coaching casket. No longer elite.

[trumanorme]

Being a Black man and a KState far I would agree in part with charles and all considering their is 4 coaches but I think the issue is that none of the mid majors are giving these guys and chance as well as black coaches gotta be willing to play the game like Gill has go to a mid major school have some success and then you will be on the radar of big time schools cause you have experience and your not just some ok coordinator with no HC experience (insert RON HERE)

Damn, that is hard to read. In the future, please use a coma and periods when needed. It will help greatly, and you won't sound like a 2nd grader. Thanks in advance.  No offense.

[Mob Mentality]

  FU Charles Barkley and anyone else who tries to bring the race card into play after a coach is fired.  RP was fired because he sucked ass, was an arrogant prick, and had lost respect from players, fans, coaches, local HS coaches.....everywhere.  It had nothing to do with race and everything to do with the direction the program was heading.  If he was halfway decent, was able to bring in and keep quality assistants, and was able to produce a team that constistently improved (any decent coach) he would still be here.  He was in way over his head and his ego was so big he couldn't even see it.  If a black coach is successful...he keeps his job. Period.  If any coach is successful he keeps his job. Period.  No race issue at all...it's about doing the job you are hired to do, and achieving the desired results.