Petro "Kstate needs to throw deep"

[michigancat]

As far as tendancies go, we really didn't change much from 1st to 2nd half.  Nearly every drive in the first half we threw on first down too.  Then we tried to come back to the run on 2nd or 3rd or later in the drive.  We just couldn't get it done in the 2nd like we did in the first.  Its an excuse, but I think the loss of Bedore contributed significantly to that. 

I agree.  We had one run from a RB of more than 4 yards, 6 under in the second half.  The first half had runs of 7, 9, 14, 10, and 6.

[The Whale]

Hmm, I know you're a football coach and I'm not, but I think the receiving threats are adequate enough that a few draws a game of 7 yards or more is enough to move the ball.  That's the difference between the first half and the second half Saturday - we didn't run much, but we ran enough to move the ball (penalties killed us more than an inability to move the ball).

Don't disagree with that.  I'm just saying if you have more legit recieving threats, it puts more pressure on the defense and can open up your running game or the passing game as well.

As far as tendancies go, we really didn't change much from 1st to 2nd half.  Nearly every drive in the first half we threw on first down too.  Then we tried to come back to the run on 2nd or 3rd or later in the drive.  We just couldn't get it done in the 2nd like we did in the first.  Its an excuse, but I think the loss of Bedore contributed significantly to that. 

One thing I noticed in the second half was that nearly every time Freeman was under center, instead of shutgun, it was a running play -- completely giving away what kind of play was coming just by the formation.

[ksu_FAN]

Hmm, I know you're a football coach and I'm not, but I think the receiving threats are adequate enough that a few draws a game of 7 yards or more is enough to move the ball.  That's the difference between the first half and the second half Saturday - we didn't run much, but we ran enough to move the ball (penalties killed us more than an inability to move the ball).

Don't disagree with that.  I'm just saying if you have more legit recieving threats, it puts more pressure on the defense and can open up your running game or the passing game as well.

As far as tendancies go, we really didn't change much from 1st to 2nd half.  Nearly every drive in the first half we threw on first down too.  Then we tried to come back to the run on 2nd or 3rd or later in the drive.  We just couldn't get it done in the 2nd like we did in the first.  Its an excuse, but I think the loss of Bedore contributed significantly to that. 

One thing I noticed in the second half was that nearly every time Freeman was under center, instead of shutgun, it was a running play -- completely giving away what kind of play was coming just by the formation.

Again, we had a new center.  That probably contributed to that tendancy.

[catzacker]

I guess I just haven't figured out where this offense puts pressure on the defense.  We can't/won't commit to running the ball, so we do the "run through short passing attack", which only complicates the running game because it moves defenders a bit closer to the LOS, but we don't make them pay for doing so because we can only send 2 receivers into a route against 2 deep because we can't protect.  

And I understand why our offense is the way it is because Ron wants to have a defense and special teams unit that makes plays so our offense doesn't have to be the driving force, but at some point we're going to have to take some chances on offense.  

[ksu_FAN]

I guess I just haven't figured out where this offense puts pressure on the defense.  We can't/won't commit to running the ball, so we do the "run through short passing attack", which only complicates the running game because it moves defenders a bit closer to the LOS, but we don't make them pay for doing so because we can only send 2 receivers into a route against 2 deep because we can't protect.  

And I understand why our offense is the way it is because Ron wants to have a defense and special teams unit that makes plays so our offense doesn't have to be the driving force, but at some point we're going to have to take some chances on offense.  

At this point it appears our main attack is from the hashes to the sidelines with both the passing game and the running game.  That fits right in with Prince's philosophy.  Unfortunately there is not enough there right now.  The encouraging thing is that we did get a bit more balance in the passing game in that Murphy caught 8 balls.  That's a good thing.  But as this thread has said, 16 rushing attempts by our backs is not enough.  Its not like we were ever down enough that we had to throw every down.  I'm fine with passing the ball often on first down, but we've got to find a way to put more pressure on defenses with the running game.  IMO Johnson needs to get the ball at least 15 times per game and Patton 5-10.

[michigancat]

I guess I just haven't figured out where this offense puts pressure on the defense.  We can't/won't commit to running the ball, so we do the "run through short passing attack", which only complicates the running game because it moves defenders a bit closer to the LOS, but we don't make them pay for doing so because we can only send 2 receivers into a route against 2 deep because we can't protect.   

Bringing defenders closer to the line in the flats (i.e. spreading the field) doesn't have a major effect on running, IMO.  At least, it's nothing compared to having a defensive tackle in your backfield every play.

I've convinced myself that the loss of Bedore absolutely devastated the offense in the second half.  It's kind of a nice feeling.

Check out the play log....it's an interesting read:

http://www.kstatesports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=3061&SPID=212&DB_OEM_ID=400&ATCLID=1257825

[catzacker]

The loss of Bedore did hurt.  McClinton was owning our interior OL, it only got worse when Viers was in there (for instance, on the drive where we successfully kicked a FG. the run on 3rd and 3 that got stuffed was all McClinton).  IIRC, the run that JJ scored on (it was 2nd and 1 I think) McClinton wasn't in there, ku had their pass rush DL in there. 

I think for running the ball, we need to focus on more traps and counters instead of stretch plays...use angles and agility instead of physicality because we're getting beat upfront. 

[The Whale]

Hmm, I know you're a football coach and I'm not, but I think the receiving threats are adequate enough that a few draws a game of 7 yards or more is enough to move the ball.  That's the difference between the first half and the second half Saturday - we didn't run much, but we ran enough to move the ball (penalties killed us more than an inability to move the ball).

Don't disagree with that.  I'm just saying if you have more legit recieving threats, it puts more pressure on the defense and can open up your running game or the passing game as well.

As far as tendancies go, we really didn't change much from 1st to 2nd half.  Nearly every drive in the first half we threw on first down too.  Then we tried to come back to the run on 2nd or 3rd or later in the drive.  We just couldn't get it done in the 2nd like we did in the first.  Its an excuse, but I think the loss of Bedore contributed significantly to that. 

One thing I noticed in the second half was that nearly every time Freeman was under center, instead of shutgun, it was a running play -- completely giving away what kind of play was coming just by the formation.

Again, we had a new center.  That probably contributed to that tendancy.

Maybe, but we still ran out of shotgun for a vast majority of the passing plays. 

It was like watching Beasley or Ell come up to the line and audible -- as soon as you saw the audible, you knew it was an option play.