ETT: pick two players from the asbury/wooldridge (GOLDEN DAYS) era

[KSU4ME]

He was hitting 39% from downtown, he wasn't shooting too much.  He was dishing over 100 assists a season, he wasn't a ball hog. 

Stewart doesn't score and doesn't dish.  How does that make him better than a guy that is very good at both?

In what aspect of the game was Stewart better than Hatcher?

Just name one.

[sys]

Did he shoot too much because no one else was on the team, or because he was a ball hog?  I'm guessing he'd shoot less if he'd play w/ two lottos.

You could argue that Larry Reid shot too much, too, but he was pretty much the only offensive threat.

i'm not sayin he was a ball hog.  i'm sure he would shoot less.

my point is just that the upgrade he would provide would not be that significant because the shots hatcher would take would come at expense of beasley/walker/hoskins opportunities, not stewart opportunities.

does anyone think stewart is going to do anything more than pass the ball to our scorers to let them create and then spot up at the 3 in case they draw a double?

[sys]

He was hitting 39% from downtown, he wasn't shooting too much.  He was dishing over 100 assists a season, he wasn't a ball hog. 

Stewart doesn't score and doesn't dish.  How does that make him better than a guy that is very good at both?

In what aspect of the game was Stewart better than Hatcher?

Just name one.

see my response to rusty.  stewart can hit an open, feet planted, 3 as well or better than hatcher could.  ksu doesn't need a point to do much more than that.  hence hatcher's more expansive skillset would not help the team as much as it would seem.

[KSU4ME]

does anyone think stewart is going to do anything more than pass the ball to our scorers to let them create and then spot up at the 3 in case they draw a double?

...........

see my response to rusty.  stewart can hit an open, feet planted, 3 as well or better than hatcher could.  ksu doesn't need a point to do much more than that.  hence hatcher's more expansive skillset would not help the team as much as it would seem.

Hatcher was a better 3 pt shooter.  Period.  Shot better percentages on more attempts. 

And a better assist guy.

Not to mention a better defender and rebounder.

Still waiting to hear how that's not an upgrade.

Somehow you have convinced yourself that being a worse shot and less adept at setting up teammates is a good thing.  Are you dating Kat Kid?  This would explain much.

[sys]

Still waiting to hear how that's not an upgrade.

jesus fjucking christ dude.  i want to like you, cause you evidently have followed ksu bball for more than a decade.  but learn to fjucking read the posts you attack.  i've now stated in 3-4 posts that hatcher is better than stewart or young (this means i acknowledge that he would be an upgrade, btw).  my point is only that the upgrade is less than might seem immediately obvious.

if you want to attack that point, go ahead.  or just decide i'm full of shlt and stop responding.  either is fine.  just don't keep negating a point i'm not stating.

[michigancat]

if you want to attack that point, go ahead.  or just decide i'm full of shlt and stop responding.  either is fine.  just don't keep negating a point i'm not stating.

Setting up strawmen is about all KSU4ME knows how to do when faced with intelligence, reason, wit, and overall good looks.

[KSU4ME]

Yeah, sys didn't just say that Stewart was at least as good of a 3 point shooter than Hatcher.

[sys]

Yeah, sys didn't just say that Stewart was at least as good of a 3 point shooter than Hatcher.

actually, i didn't say that.  but at least you are getting closer to what i actually did say.

where are you getting your hatcher stats?  link them and i'll take a look and see if i'm talking out of my ass.

[michigancat]

Yeah, sys didn't just say that Stewart was at least as good of a 3 point shooter than Hatcher.

actually, i didn't say that.  but at least you are getting closer to what i actually did say.

where are you getting your hatcher stats?  link them and i'll take a look and see if i'm talking out of my ass.

Hatcher:  89-231, .385

http://admin.xosn.com//pdf4/51017.pdf?DB_OEM_ID=400

[sys]

thanks.  hatcher's 3 stats are only marginally better.  his main advantage is that he would combine the good points of both young and stewart in the same player.  which is nice, but i still think i'm right that he wouldn't actually improve the team that much.

looking over the stats again, i'd rather have peete than any of the guards previously mentioned.  i've now come full circle on him.  wooldridge was an idiot not to have let him call himself the point.

[steve dave]

looking over the stats again, i'd rather have peete than any of the guards previously mentioned.  i've now come full circle on him.  wooldridge was an idiot not to have let him call himself the point.

QFT 

[pissclams]

Stats-
http://admin.xosn.com/pdf4/73045.pdf?SPSID=3083&SPID=213&KEY=RELAIMJADQZXOYN.20070417151528&DB_ACCOUNT_TYPE=AGENT&skip_agent_menus=NO&DB_MENU_ID=286&skip_agent_info=NO&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=400

I'd take Elliot over Stew but that has more to do with Stew banging KatKid's girlfriend repeatedly than it does with overall gameplay of either guard.  What a great little nugget of find.

[michigancat]

looking over the stats again, i'd rather have peete than any of the guards previously mentioned.  i've now come full circle on him.  wooldridge was an idiot not to have let him call himself the point.

You're right about Wooldridge being an idiot, but why would you take Peete over Hatcher, Morrison, or Reid?

Another good name no one mentioned is Nick Williams.

[KSU4ME]

Yeah, sys didn't just say that Stewart was at least as good of a 3 point shooter than Hatcher.

actually, i didn't say that.  but at least you are getting closer to what i actually did say.

stewart can hit an open, feet planted, 3 as well or better than hatcher could

We're not going to upgrade the 3 or 4 spot, and likely not the 2 spot if that's where Sutton plays.  And Hatcher is better than any PG we have in every category.

When Stewart took a significant number of 3s, enough to keep a defense honest, he shot worse than Hatcher did.  He shot 36% on 107 attempts last year, and 32% on 72 attempts 2 years ago, combining to shoot 35% in the seasons where he actually took the shots.  Hatcher shot better, and he was a point of focus for the opposing defense.  Stewart rarely attempted a three that wasn't wide freaking open, and he still didn't shoot as good.

No true PG = ultimate straw man

[sys]

You're right about Wooldridge being an idiot, but why would you take Peete over Hatcher, Morrison, or Reid?
Another good name no one mentioned is Nick Williams.

over hatcher - bigger, stronger, more athletic.  can defend small guards as well, and can defend bigger guards better.  better rebounder.  just as good an outside shot.  peete's weakness was shot selection, but coaching should be able to improve that.

over morrison - bigger, stronger, much, much, much better defender.  also i hated morrison.

over reid - pretty much the same rationale as with hatcher, but hatcher was a better defender than reid.

williams was a poor defender at ksu, and didn't have the outside shot.  he doesn't really fit a need for the 07-08 team.

[michigancat]

Nick's shot came around at the end of the season (finished at 38%).  Coach "Fool's Gold" probably made him make 10 in a row in practice or something before he'd let him take one in a game.

[KSU4ME]

Peete's greatest strength was getting into the lane and drawing fouls.  The guy could create, something that was very rare in the dark ages.  Hatcher did that as well, but Hatcher was a better shooter - inside, outside and at the line.

Will we ever see something like this for Stewart?

[sys]

Peete's greatest strength was getting into the lane and drawing fouls.  The guy could create, something that was very rare in the dark ages.

peete's greatest weakness was getting into the lane and not getting a call.  the times he got the call didn't make up for the times he didn't.  if he had played for a coach that believed in the 3 point shot, and could have been convinced to take a few more 3s, and a lot less 2s, he could have been really good.

[KSU4ME]

126 3 pt attempts isn't holding back, but Peete also struggled with shot selection.  Part of that was his youth, but Harris and Martin were better distance shooters that year, so I don't know if more triples was the answer for Peete.

I loved the guy, and he'd be my second Guard choice after Hatcher. 

[sys]

126 3 pt attempts isn't holding back, but Peete also struggled with shot selection.  Part of that was his youth, but Harris and Martin were better distance shooters that year, so I don't know if more triples was the answer for Peete.

I loved the guy, and he'd be my second Guard choice after Hatcher. 

i agree, he shot too much (100 more attempts than martin, almost as many as massey), and looking back, yeah probably a few too many 3s too.  but 35% on 3s is better than 39% on 2s, even factoring in fts.

great defender though.  and versatile.

[chum1]

does anyone think stewart is going to do anything more than pass the ball to our scorers to let them create and then spot up at the 3 in case they draw a double?

Yes.  He will find some way to &@#% things up.  Exactly how he does this isn't important.  And it's not like he's any &@#%ing good at setting up scorers in the first place. 

[catzacker]

does anyone think stewart is going to do anything more than pass the ball to our scorers to let them create and then spot up at the 3 in case they draw a double?

Yes.  He will find some way to frack things up.  Exactly how he does this isn't important.  And it's not like he's any fracking good at setting up scorers in the first place. 

If we need somone to dribble down the court (like he's trying to sneak up on someone) and then not penetrate (because he's physically unable to dribble competently into the lane) and try to pass the ball to the wing (where it almost gets picked off) to one of the lottery picks...then Clent's our guy.  Although he his good for a spot up 3.

[Dan Rydell]

Since all the proper answers are taken, I'll go:

Kimm and Wallace.

[KSU4ME]

does anyone think stewart is going to do anything more than pass the ball to our scorers to let them create and then spot up at the 3 in case they draw a double?

Yes.  He will find some way to frack things up.  Exactly how he does this isn't important.  And it's not like he's any fracking good at setting up scorers in the first place. 

If we need somone to dribble down the court (like he's trying to sneak up on someone) and then not penetrate (because he's physically unable to dribble competently into the lane) and try to pass the ball to the wing (where it almost gets picked off) to one of the lottery picks...then Clent's our guy.  Although he his good for a spot up 3.

Be fair to Clent.  He is an excellent passer, so long as his target is unguarded and standing outside the 3 pt line.

[slucat]

does position even matter?
isn't it usually "best avalible"?

[steve dave]

Matt Seibrant has not gotten enough love in this thread....

[chum1]

isn't it usually "best avalible"?

Yeah, usually.  A team usually has adequate guards, though.

[greasd up deaf guy]

I'd have to go with Reid and Kitt/Massey.