We really need another jump shooter on this team.

[KSU4ME]

Rusty, did you ever play ball in an organized fashion?

[michigancat]

Rusty, did you ever play ball in an organized fashion?

Yeah.  I currently coach, too.

If you seriously want to discuss my "credentials", feel free to send me a PM.

[KSU4ME]

I feel sorry for your team.

[steve dave]

Rusty, did you ever play ball in an organized fashion?

Yeah.  I currently coach, too.

If you seriously want to discuss my "credentials", feel free to send me a PM.

Wooly??

[michigancat]

I feel sorry for your team.

Why?

Rusty, did you ever play ball in an organized fashion?

Yeah.  I currently coach, too.

If you seriously want to discuss my "credentials", feel free to send me a PM.

Wooly??

[catzacker]

I don't see the problem with having this lineup:

1-Young
2-Stewart
3-Hoskins
4-Sutton
5-Beasley

...Stewart should be able to at least keep the idea of an outside threat and Beasley can stretch the defense just by being on the court.  IIRC, we ran some stuff where Colon got the ball between the FT line and the 3 point line...if Beasley's the one with the ball it's a different story.  Plus with this line up we would be athletic enough to actually run, yet not that small that we couldn't match up. 

[rundown87]

bill walker?  not starting?

[SUPERKSUFAN]

I don't see the problem with having this lineup:

1-Young  SkyWalker
2-Stewart/Pullen
3-Hoskins
4-Sutton
5-Beasley
 

Fixed it for you.

[KSU4ME]

Why?

An up tempo transition offense requires guards that can play up tempo, but stay under control.  Otherwise you miss any advantage you could have had by going too slow and end up in your half court set anyway, or miss the offensive opportunity all together by getting out of control.  Stewart can stay under control, Young can play up tempo, but neither can do both. 

Even in a transition offense, you still have a PG that is going to get the ball on the outlet the majority of the time.  Otherwise you have 2 guards going for the outlet pass, and have one lane left unfilled.  Not exactly a good recipe.

Surely you've seen a Roy Williams coached team and noticed this?

[rundown87]

I don't see the problem with having this lineup:

1-Young  SkyWalker
2-Stewart/Pullen
3-Hoskins
4-Sutton
5-Beasley
 

Fixed it for you.

why would bill walker play point guard?

[SUPERKSUFAN]

I don't see the problem with having this lineup:

1-Young  SkyWalker
2-Stewart/Pullen
3-Hoskins
4-Sutton
5-Beasley
 

Fixed it for you.

why would bill walker play point guard?

he wouldn't....I don't see where there are positions by the numbers are there?

If you are going to be picky.....
1. Stewart/Pullen
2. Hoskins
3. Sky Walker
4. Sutton
5. B Easy

[ScubaSteve]

Our SG position is scaring me.

So much so, I'm already missing Lance Harris.   

 

I hear Darren Kent can really nail the 3.

[michigancat]

Even in a transition offense, you still have a PG that is going to get the ball on the outlet the majority of the time.  Otherwise you have 2 guards going for the outlet pass, and have one lane left unfilled.  Not exactly a good recipe.

Surely you've seen a Roy Williams coached team and noticed this?

I'm saying that the guard closest to the ball should get the outlet.  Kind of like how Roy did with Kirk Hinrich and Aaron Miles on the floor at the same time.  Hinrich got a ton of outlet passes at ku.

If we have two players that can't figure out who's closest to the ball, I think we have serious, serious problems.

[rundown87]

I don't see the problem with having this lineup:

1-Young  SkyWalker
2-Stewart/Pullen
3-Hoskins
4-Sutton
5-Beasley
 

Fixed it for you.

why would bill walker play point guard?

he wouldn't....I don't see where there are positions by the numbers are there?

If you are going to be picky.....
1. Stewart/Pullen
2. Hoskins
3. Sky Walker
4. Sutton
5. B Easy

1. (PG)
2. (SG)
3. (SF)
4. (PF)
5. (C)

[michigancat]

Also, I think Stewart could push the ball more, he just doesn't.  Not enough to get fast break points consistently, but enough to get transition baskets.

[rundown87]

Also, I think Stewart could push the ball more, he just doesn't.  Not enough to get fast break points consistently, but enough to get transition baskets.

with our S&C coach?  who knows?  he might impress you come start of the season.

[michigancat]

Also, I think Stewart could push the ball more, he just doesn't.  Not enough to get fast break points consistently, but enough to get transition baskets.

with our S&C coach?  who knows?  he might impress you come start of the season.

I don't think it's his speed as much as BBIQ.  Remember Wooly's outlet passes?  The rebounder would pivot for three or four seconds until the point guard tapped him on the shoulder and they made a hand off.  After that, the point would walk the ball up the court and get across half court with about 27 on the shot clock.

I also liked a point guard standing next to the ball waiting for his shooting guard to throw it out of bounds after every made basket.

[yosh]

Clent just has more of a conservative, methodical nature.  Last season, when we were not a good scoring team, Huggins was trying to keep scores low and keep the tempo down.  Clent was the better fit as a PG for that philosophy.  Conversely, Young wants to push the ball.  I think he'll be the primary point this season because of that.  However, Clent will still act a PG on some possesions, as will Hoskins in the half court set.  I'm sure they will be able to manage such a radical mid-game shift without calling a timeout.  It's mind boggling to think about, but I think they will be able to master this tricky manuever.

 

[rundown87]

hoskins will not play point at all.

[KSU4ME]

I'm saying that the guard closest to the ball should get the outlet.  Kind of like how Roy did with Kirk Hinrich and Aaron Miles on the floor at the same time.  Hinrich got a ton of outlet passes at ku.

If we have two players that can't figure out who's closest to the ball, I think we have serious, serious problems.

I'm a little confused.  Is Stewart Hinrich, or Miles?

And even with two players light years better than Young/Stewart, Miles still got the ball the the majority of the time.  That's why he has hundreds more assists.

As for Stewart being able to push the ball more, I don't buy it, but I'll go with ya.  Dude's a senior, you think all of a sudden he's going to figure it out?  Stewart has never demonstrated that he can do that.

Anyway, you know have one guard capable of running your up tempo transition offense.  Keep looking.  You need a second one.

What you're describing, trying to run a up tempo transition offense with 2 PGs, works well with lower level girls teams, where the athletic differences don't result in ugly basketball when you don't have guards that can play fast and under control.

[yosh]

hoskins will not play point at all.

 

[SUPERKSUFAN]

hoskins will not play point at all.

 

he did a little bit last season...why not?  LOL

[michigancat]

I'm saying that the guard closest to the ball should get the outlet.  Kind of like how Roy did with Kirk Hinrich and Aaron Miles on the floor at the same time.  Hinrich got a ton of outlet passes at ku.

If we have two players that can't figure out who's closest to the ball, I think we have serious, serious problems.

I'm a little confused.  Is Stewart Hinrich, or Miles?

And even with two players light years better than Young/Stewart, Miles still got the ball the the majority of the time.  That's why he has hundreds more assists.

Yeah, he probably got it after every made basket and 60-75% of outlet passes off misses.  That's reasonable with two players with point guard abilities on the floor.  My point was they didn't only make outlet passes it to the player they voted point guard during timeouts.  Why did you use Roy as your example if we don't have any players comparable to his teams?

As for Stewart being able to push the ball more, I don't buy it, but I'll go with ya.  Dude's a senior, you think all of a sudden he's going to figure it out?  Stewart has never demonstrated that he can do that.

Anyway, you know have one guard capable of running your up tempo transition offense.  Keep looking.  You need a second one.

What are you arguing here?  If you're just saying KSU doesn't have the personel to run transition consistently, I could maybe buy that.

What you're describing, trying to run a up tempo transition offense with 2 PGs, works well with lower level girls teams, where the athletic differences don't result in ugly basketball when you don't have guards that can play fast and under control.

Huh?  It has to be decided on a case by case basis.  Obviously, if Akeem Wright is the second guard, you never want him taking outlet passes.  I never said you could.  But if the abilities are comparable, who cares who gets the ball?  A couple good examples would be Chalmers/Robinson, Hannah/Horton, and Augustin/Abrams.

[KSU4ME]

Yeah, he probably got it after every made basket and 60-75% of outlet passes off misses.  That's reasonable with two players with point guard abilities on the floor.  My point was they didn't only make outlet passes it to the player they voted point guard during timeouts.  Why did you use Roy as your example if we don't have any players comparable to his teams?

I used Roy for two reasons.

1.  He ran that style of offense as well as I've seen it run at the college level.
2.  It demonstrates perfectly how KSU does not have the personnel to run that offense. <--- My point!

Also, getting the ball after every made basket and 75% of the outlet passes isn't radically different than what we did this past year.  If that's what you want out of your 2 PG team, then we've already seen it and it's sucky.

What are you arguing here?  If you're just saying KSU doesn't have the personel to run transition consistently, I could maybe buy that.

Exactly.  KSU doesn't have the guards to do that well, so it's pretty freaking dumb to recommend doing it.

Huh?  It has to be decided on a case by case basis.  Obviously, if Akeem Wright is the second guard, you never want him taking outlet passes.  I never said you could.  But if the abilities are comparable, who cares who gets the ball?  A couple good examples would be Chalmers/Robinson, Hannah/Horton, and Augustin/Abrams.

Each of the backcourts you mentioned features two guards that can push the ball under control. 

KSU has none currently, but you think Stewart might become one.

Starting to see why it doesn't make sense?

By the way, why do you think Akeem was having to bring the ball up every once in a while?  The answer will tell you something about our backcourt.

[ksuno1stunner]

I wish Clemente could play this year.

[SUPERKSUFAN]

I wish Clemente could play this year.

I completely agree with you...that guy is good.

[michigancat]

Yeah, he probably got it after every made basket and 60-75% of outlet passes off misses.  That's reasonable with two players with point guard abilities on the floor.  My point was they didn't only make outlet passes it to the player they voted point guard during timeouts.  Why did you use Roy as your example if we don't have any players comparable to his teams?

I used Roy for two reasons.

1.  He ran that style of offense as well as I've seen it run at the college level.
2.  It demonstrates perfectly how KSU does not have the personnel to run that offense. <--- My point!

Also, getting the ball after every made basket and 75% of the outlet passes isn't radically different than what we did this past year.  If that's what you want out of your 2 PG team, then we've already seen it and it's sucky.

What are you arguing here?  If you're just saying KSU doesn't have the personel to run transition consistently, I could maybe buy that.

Exactly.  KSU doesn't have the guards to do that well, so it's pretty freaking dumb to recommend doing it.

Huh?  It has to be decided on a case by case basis.  Obviously, if Akeem Wright is the second guard, you never want him taking outlet passes.  I never said you could.  But if the abilities are comparable, who cares who gets the ball?  A couple good examples would be Chalmers/Robinson, Hannah/Horton, and Augustin/Abrams.

Each of the backcourts you mentioned features two guards that can push the ball under control. 

KSU has none currently, but you think Stewart might become one.

Starting to see why it doesn't make sense?

By the way, why do you think Akeem was having to bring the ball up every once in a while?  The answer will tell you something about our backcourt.

Oh, didn't realize you were talking about KSU specifically. 
This sounded like you were talking about basketball in general:

You can have two guys that are able to play PG on the court, but you can only have one guy playing PG on the court.

The fact that so many KSU fans just don't get this floors me.

Randomly switching which guy is running the point isn't a good idea.  Substitute for stretches of time?  Yes.  Leave players guessing which guard is running the point?  No.

If you want any sense of rhythm or flow, you'll have one guy be your primary PG, and another guy that spells him during the game.  But you don't switch back and forth randomly.  Make switches during timeouts, or deadball periods when it can be communicated to the team.

If you're arguing that our guards aren't good enough to run transition, you're probably right (haven't seen what Pullen or Brown can do). 

That said, I don't see how throwing outlets to both Pullen and Stewart or Young and Brown or whatever makes our point guard situation significantly worse.  I can see how it could give us more transition opportunities, though.

[yosh]

KSUME-

Who do you see running point?  What type of offense and tempo best fits the KSU personnel in your opinion. 

FWIW, I also thought you were talking about basketball in general.  It wasn't very clear that you were specifically talking about KSU's personelle.  I'm not sure I necessarily agree with you, but I think it's a more valid argument.

[PowercatPosse]

1- Stew (23 min) Pullen (17 min)
2- Young (21 min) Sutton (11 min) Brown (8 min)
3- Hoskins (29 min) Sutton (11 min)
4- Walker (29 min) Samuels (11 min)
5- Beasley (30 min) Colon (10 min)

Only question mark i have is who starts at the SG. I think it is a toss up right now between Young and Sutton 

Hoskins is not going to start at the 2, play at the 2, or do anything at the 2. 

I don't see Young playing PG.   IMO, Stew does a better job getting us into our offense.   Young can still push the ball and handle the ball some, but i want Stew and Pullen actually playing the "PG spot"

[KSU4ME]

Stewart on the point, unless Young had some kind of off season miracle.

And I my comments were about KSU and in general.  Even in Roy Williams sets, with two GREAT guards, he still had one guy that was identified as THE PG on the overwhelming majority of possessions.  Yes, when an opportunity for tremendous advantage arises, you might forego the pass to the PG to initiate the offense, and run the offense through a different guard or even a forward, but this is true of all offensive scenarios.

KSU doesn't have the personnel to run an up tempo transition offense.

The idea that who the PG is changes possession to possession just isn't the way basketball is played at a competitive level.  That is how it's played in grade school gyms and at the Rec though.

But hey, maybe Rusty is the Mike Leach of college basketball.