let's talk "Potential Players"...

[The Manhatter]

first of all I think it's great that Butler is getting some of the kids exposure.  And I'm referring more to the kids who don't have the money to go touring around to Nike camps, attend other camps, etc. but in one setting some mid-major D1, D1AA, or D2....that is awfully valuable for those types of kids.  While the big coaches from the BCS progams were talked about there were plenty of coaches from lower divisions.  They don't have the recruiting budgets and if these kids don't get in front of them at their camps then these opportunities may not come.

As for the Browns and Harper types...every coach in America knows who they are...they are obviously the main attraction and help to hype the camp and bring in the numbers but the camp serves a better purpose for the less known kids.  duh.  It also emphasizes to make the camp director a VIP. 

Having said that..."Potential Players" wants to tour a # of Kansas kids to different camps across the country.  That takes money and not just a few hundred buckaroos.  We're talking renting vans, gas money, food, lodging, camp fees...everything.  And I would think as many places on both coasts they plan to visit...we're talking 5 figure expenses.  Any of you think a few barbeques is going to raise that kind of money?

discuss.

 

[PoetWarrior]

Just give it straight to the Browns.

[waks]

It's clear that you think something dirty is going on. I just hope that our boosters are the one's doing it.

[ksuno1stunner]

Instead of building a new practice basketball facility, we should give it to the Browns.

[PoetWarrior]

I didn't feel this way initially, but Butler is a terrible thing for us.

[waks]

We could name the stadium after them..

[ksuno1stunner]

It's clear that you think something dirty is going on. I just hope that our boosters are the one's doing it.

Who wants to start going door-to-door with me?

[catzacker]

Butler is a bad thing for KSU because we don't have an "in" with him.  If Ron had a Art Alvarez relationship with Butler, I'd love Butler.  I think we're a few years away from Butler being good for us.  He has to make a name for himself and the Brown Brothers and Harper are just the kids to do that...and sending thems to KSU doesn't make a name for him at all.  It doesn't help that Snyder and Co. rammed our program into the ground in their final two seasons and we're up agianst USC, OU, and Florida who have all won national championships in the last 7 years and have entirely better football programs than us.

[The Manhatter]

I didn't feel this way initially, but Butler is a terrible thing for us.

I wouldn't say that.

And regardless of any of the Brown stuff keep in mind this is a good thing for those mid-major, D1AA, etc. prospects...forget what you think about the other stuff...that is a very good thing he is doing.

Now getting back to what you said...Wimbley was the last national kid to come out of Wichita.  That was 2002...so 6 years has passed.  There is not a national recruit in Wichita every year..that is just logic.  Shoot, there are years ku and KSU do not sign kids in Wichita.  That will not change because of "Potential Players" started up...talent is talent, period.

Then you go back to these camps...do you honestly think Carroll, Meyer, Stoops, and all of the other coaches are going to show up every year when there is no Brown type of prospect?  Puuhlease..they may, and I stress "may" send an asst as a courtesy but they won't be there in years were there is not a national prospect.

And getting back to the money part...he is in the state of Kansas.  There are far more KSU and ku fans in this state than any other program.  Do you think some OU, USC, or whatever moneybags is going to make "charitable contributions" to "potential players" in the dry years?  Hardly.  I could see some fans of in-state schools making contributions on a yearly basis....but not just so Butler can flash the browns in front of an LSU, Miami, etc.  F that.

I think we all know what that means...don't bite the hand that could potentially feed "Potential Players" in the future and in particular, the dry years.

Just some things to think about.

[waks]

Is it wrong that I'm hoping they don't raise any money..?

[The Manhatter]

Butler is a bad thing for KSU because we don't have an "in" with him.  If Ron had a Art Alvarez relationship with Butler, I'd love Butler.  I think we're a few years away from Butler being good for us.  He has to make a name for himself and the Brown Brothers and Harper are just the kids to do that...and sending thems to KSU doesn't make a name for him at all.  It doesn't help that Snyder and Co. rammed our program into the ground in their final two seasons and we're up agianst USC, OU, and Florida who have all won national championships in the last 7 years and have entirely better football programs than us.

when there are no Browns in the city how will business be for "Potential Players".  I wouldn't say we don't have an "in" w/ this Art Alvarez type of relationship.  In fact I think it could be far more beneficial for the in-state schools than vise versa.

There are KSU fans who own things like car dealerships w/ in a stone's throw of Wichita...think "donating" a few rental vans for the tour could be something easily done?  

All I'm saying is that it's far more likely a "helping hand" is there from in-state in the dry years than it will be from elsewhere.

[ksuno1stunner]

I didn't feel this way initially, but Butler is a terrible thing for us.

I wouldn't say that.

And regardless of any of the Brown stuff keep in mind this is a good thing for those mid-major, D1AA, etc. prospects...forget what you think about the other stuff...that is a very good thing he is doing.

Now getting back to what you said...Wimbley was the last national kid to come out of Wichita.  That was 2002...so 6 years has passed.  There is not a national recruit in Wichita every year..that is just logic.  Shoot, there are years ku and KSU do not sign kids in Wichita.  That will not change because of "Potential Players" started up...talent is talent, period.

Then you go back to these camps...do you honestly think Carroll, Meyer, Stoops, and all of the other coaches are going to show up every year when there is no Brown type of prospect?  Puuhlease..they may, and I stress "may" send an asst as a courtesy but they won't be there in years were there is not a national prospect.

And getting back to the money part...he is in the state of Kansas.  There are far more KSU and ku fans in this state than any other program.  Do you think some OU, USC, or whatever moneybags is going to make "charitable contributions" to "potential players" in the dry years?  Hardly.  I could see some fans of in-state schools making contributions on a yearly basis....but not just so Butler can flash the browns in front of an LSU, Miami, etc.  F that.

I think we all know what that means...don't bite the hand that could potentially feed "Potential Players" in the future and in particular, the dry years.

Just some things to think about.

Post that for the powertards.  I'm sure some may feel generous.

[The Manhatter]

Is it wrong that I'm hoping they don't raise any money..?

no reason to "hope" because it will happen.  I just hope it's from KSU backers and not other schools w/ a little "wink, wink" and a "I might want to make charitable contributions on a yearly basis IF..."

[catzacker]

Butler is a bad thing for KSU because we don't have an "in" with him.  If Ron had a Art Alvarez relationship with Butler, I'd love Butler.  I think we're a few years away from Butler being good for us.  He has to make a name for himself and the Brown Brothers and Harper are just the kids to do that...and sending thems to KSU doesn't make a name for him at all.  It doesn't help that Snyder and Co. rammed our program into the ground in their final two seasons and we're up agianst USC, OU, and Florida who have all won national championships in the last 7 years and have entirely better football programs than us.

when there are no Browns in the city how will business be for "Potential Players".  I wouldn't say we don't have an "in" w/ this Art Alvarez type of relationship.  In fact I think it could be far more beneficial for the in-state schools than vise versa.

There are KSU fans who own things like car dealerships w/ in a stone's throw of Wichita...think "donating" a few rental vans for the tour could be something easily done?  

All I'm saying is that it's far more likely a "helping hand" is there from in-state in the dry years than it will be from elsewhere.

Exactly.  But I think he has to "establish" Potential Players as an organization and you do that by making a splash...sending the Browns and Harper to KSU doesn't do that (but that's not necessarily why we won't get them, we won't get them because other schools are better than KSU).  I think Butler will be good for KSU, but not this year and not with the Browns and Harper.   I wish I won he lottery, because I would bankroll Potential Players.

[The Manhatter]

Exactly.  But I think he has to "establish" Potential Players as an organization and you do that by making a splash...sending the Browns and Harper to KSU doesn't do that (but that's not necessarily why we won't get them, we won't get them because other schools are better than KSU).  I think Butler will be good for KSU, but not this year and not with the Browns and Harper.   I wish I won he lottery, because I would bankroll Potential Players.

"Splash"...there is no "splash".  The "splash" has already occured.  Everybody knows who he is and about his organization, period.  The marketing is done...the product is known.

I thought what you were thinking initially...and then it hit me.  Talent.  Dry years.  Do you really think all of these programs are going to give two craps about Wichita in the lean years?  No, they don't.  They won't give a damn, period.  But they will be back in years when there is a national prospect...they will ALWAYS be there in a year when there is a national prospect and it won't make a damn bit of a difference if the Browns and Harper did sign w/ KSU.  No "splash" is needed..that occured.  The name is out there.

Again, this operation is in the state of Kansas...and like I said.  What happens in the dry years?  ku and KSU are always going to be here and care about the kids in Wichita first and far more likely to "help" out.

[The Manhatter]

and one other thing..."who is better than KSU"?  Miami?  They skated by Nevada and Duke last year...they play in front of a half-empty stadium unless FSU is in town.  Why is Miami in the "final 3"?  My guess is because of the number of 1st rounders they have had...but then that would be stupid to assume Miami can get a player in the first round more than any other school.  They have been poorly coached.  The reason they are first rounders and because they have more is because they have had the 1st round talent, period.  It's a myth to say a talented kid is more likely to be a first rounder at a Miami than a ku or KSU...a myth.  Talent is talent whether it's Patrick Willis playing at Ole Miss or the kid who went in the first round to the Cowboys from Purdue.

As far as the team...we have some good young talent despite some of the slams on this board...add an Arthur Brown, Bryce Brown...recruits like those will lead some other great players to KSU.

And to have a great team you don't need a roster full of 4 and 5 stars...you only need 2 or 3 difference makers on either side of the ball to have a great team..that's it.  We can get that.

Did you see the Oklahoma national title team in '00?  Not a single OL or DL drafted from the starters on that team...not one.  Only one wide receiver from that team was drafted and as a corner.  Griffin and Heupel were later rounds. 

[catzacker]

Hatter, you of all people should not be surprised as to why/how recruits make their college choices.  For all intensive purposes, myth or not,regardless of how you see it, OU, USC, Florida, Notre Dame, LSU and even Miami (just to name a few on his 22 schools) are "better" programs than KSU.  I assume Miami is on there because Butler probably grew up watching the good Miami teams. 

[chum1]

There are plenty of good reasons to want to go to Miami.  Some of them have nothing to do with any aspect of the university, let alone the football program.

[fatty fat fat]

Hatter, you of all people should not be surprised as to why/how recruits make their college choices.  For all intensive purposes, myth or not,regardless of how you see it, OU, USC, Florida, Notre Dame, LSU and even Miami (just to name a few on his 22 schools) are "better" programs than KSU.  I assume Miami is on there because Butler probably grew up watching the good Miami teams. 

QFT. You go to those programs more or less for the same reason the rich asian kid goes to ivy league schools. Just to say you went there.

[ksuno1stunner]

Hatter, you of all people should not be surprised as to why/how recruits make their college choices.  For all intensive purposes, myth or not,regardless of how you see it, OU, USC, Florida, Notre Dame, LSU and even Miami (just to name a few on his 22 schools) are "better" programs than KSU.  I assume Miami is on there because Butler probably grew up watching the good Miami teams. 

Actually, he probably grew up watching KSU.

[Jeffrey_Martin]

Read my notebook tomorrow. You'll understand a little better where Brian is coming from. Trust, he's a good dude. He makes a lot of good points. I can understand why you guys are bothered, but Hatter is right. The big-time schools knew about the Browns. They weren't going to remain a secret - even though Dave Krider freaking called the Eagle today looking for contact info about Arthur Brown, unaware he had a little brother who is a superstar, too. Thing is, Butler wants this to continue, the Wichita pipeline. Again, as Hatter said, the talent might dry up after next year. But with the training these guys do under Butler, there is always going to be at least one or two Division I prospects every year - if only to keep relations with Butler strong.

[catzacker]

Hatter, you of all people should not be surprised as to why/how recruits make their college choices.  For all intensive purposes, myth or not,regardless of how you see it, OU, USC, Florida, Notre Dame, LSU and even Miami (just to name a few on his 22 schools) are "better" programs than KSU.  I assume Miami is on there because Butler probably grew up watching the good Miami teams. 

QFT. You go to those programs more or less for the same reason the rich asian kid goes to ivy league schools. Just to say you went there.

LOL

[Jeffrey_Martin]

No, you go to those programs to ALWAYS be on television. Why do you think Ron Prince made such a big deal about the Auburn opener? He knows Auburn won't beat K-State by 40 points - the Tigers don't blow anyone out. They get a lead and sit on the ball, leaving the game for their defense to decide. It'll look close, and maybe a couple of recruits will be impressed with how he prowls the sideline. It's all about exposure, and don't think recruits aren't interested, either.

[ksuno1stunner]

After reading GP's opinions on Butler, I thought we had no shot.  I do now though.  Long live Prince!

 

[catzacker]

No, you go to those programs to ALWAYS be on television. Why do you think Ron Prince made such a big deal about the Auburn opener? He knows Auburn won't beat K-State by 40 points - the Tigers don't blow anyone out. They get a lead and sit on the ball, leaving the game for their defense to decide. It'll look close, and maybe a couple of recruits will be impressed with how he prowls the sideline. It's all about exposure, and don't think recruits aren't interested, either.

Not if Josh Freeman and his turnover bandwagon have anything to say about it.

Also, I get what Butler is doing, but if talent is not dependent on who's training it (i.e. Wichita would have "produced" the Brown brothers irregardless of Butler being there) then Butler has, essentially, made himself the mediator/middle man...and for what purpose? 

[ksuno1stunner]

No, you go to those programs to ALWAYS be on television. Why do you think Ron Prince made such a big deal about the Auburn opener? He knows Auburn won't beat K-State by 40 points - the Tigers don't blow anyone out. They get a lead and sit on the ball, leaving the game for their defense to decide. It'll look close, and maybe a couple of recruits will be impressed with how he prowls the sideline. It's all about exposure, and don't think recruits aren't interested, either.

Not if Josh Freeman and his turnover bandwagon have anything to say about it.

Also, I get what Butler is doing, but if talent is not dependent on who's training it (i.e. Wichita would have "produced" the Brown brothers irregardless of Butler being there) then Butler has, essentially, made himself the mediator/middle man...and for what purpose? 

To provide opportunities he wishes he had.

[ksuno1stunner]

http://www.realcities.com/mld/kansas/sports/colleges/kansas_state_university/qa_forum.html

 

[catzacker]

No, you go to those programs to ALWAYS be on television. Why do you think Ron Prince made such a big deal about the Auburn opener? He knows Auburn won't beat K-State by 40 points - the Tigers don't blow anyone out. They get a lead and sit on the ball, leaving the game for their defense to decide. It'll look close, and maybe a couple of recruits will be impressed with how he prowls the sideline. It's all about exposure, and don't think recruits aren't interested, either.

Not if Josh Freeman and his turnover bandwagon have anything to say about it.

Also, I get what Butler is doing, but if talent is not dependent on who's training it (i.e. Wichita would have "produced" the Brown brothers irregardless of Butler being there) then Butler has, essentially, made himself the mediator/middle man...and for what purpose? 

To provide opportunities he wishes he had.

But they would have them irregardless because of their talent.  "They weren't going to remain a secret".

[ksuno1stunner]

No, you go to those programs to ALWAYS be on television. Why do you think Ron Prince made such a big deal about the Auburn opener? He knows Auburn won't beat K-State by 40 points - the Tigers don't blow anyone out. They get a lead and sit on the ball, leaving the game for their defense to decide. It'll look close, and maybe a couple of recruits will be impressed with how he prowls the sideline. It's all about exposure, and don't think recruits aren't interested, either.

Not if Josh Freeman and his turnover bandwagon have anything to say about it.

Also, I get what Butler is doing, but if talent is not dependent on who's training it (i.e. Wichita would have "produced" the Brown brothers irregardless of Butler being there) then Butler has, essentially, made himself the mediator/middle man...and for what purpose? 

To provide opportunities he wishes he had.

But they would have them irregardless because of their talent.  "They weren't going to remain a secret".

Opportunities to the lesser known guys, dork.

[Jeffrey_Martin]

These kids understand what Brian is doing. He is helping them maximize their ability, and he is using their talent as a canvas for Wichita football. There are three or four juniors to be that will benefit from this exposure. There are more kids down the line. Brian is already working with some eighth-graders, kids who accompanied the Browns on their unofficial visits to K-State.