let's talk "Potential Players"...

[PoetWarrior]

There is no doubt in my mind that without Butler, the Browns and especially Harper, would not be as big as they are.

At least not quite yet.

And that means it has been bad for us.

As far as the future prospects that may be turned out...Don't care much about the future beyond 2009.

[Jeffrey_Martin]

There is no doubt in my mind that without Butler, the Browns and especially Harper, would not be as big as they are.

At least not quite yet.

And that means it has been bad for us.

As far as the future prospects that may be turned out...Don't care much about the future beyond 2009.

Agreed on Harper, disagree on the Browns.

[catzacker]

No, you go to those programs to ALWAYS be on television. Why do you think Ron Prince made such a big deal about the Auburn opener? He knows Auburn won't beat K-State by 40 points - the Tigers don't blow anyone out. They get a lead and sit on the ball, leaving the game for their defense to decide. It'll look close, and maybe a couple of recruits will be impressed with how he prowls the sideline. It's all about exposure, and don't think recruits aren't interested, either.

Not if Josh Freeman and his turnover bandwagon have anything to say about it.

Also, I get what Butler is doing, but if talent is not dependent on who's training it (i.e. Wichita would have "produced" the Brown brothers irregardless of Butler being there) then Butler has, essentially, made himself the mediator/middle man...and for what purpose? 

To provide opportunities he wishes he had.

But they would have them irregardless because of their talent.  "They weren't going to remain a secret".

Opportunities to the lesser known guys, dork.

...like?  And who cares about the kids going to Emporia State.  The least amount of exposure a recruit gets, the better for KSU.  What happens if Butler is around to showcase Lamar Chapman or Mark Simoneau or Rashaad Washington or Monte Beisel?  We're probably in a better position to get those kids at that time, but it certainly wouldn't have helped to have to fend off more established, traditional schools, especially the way Snyder recruited (although we did have Brent Venables...he's dreamy).  

[pissclams]

I think the existence of Potential Players is bad for KSU.
The less organized and informed kids are, the easier they are to deceive. We aren't Miami, Notre Dame, OU, or USC, but we can make kids believe we are.  Listening to Ron Prince, it sounds like he could sell ice to an Eskimo.  We don't have "the dream" that Snyder's staff sold to kids in the mid-90's, we need another angle.  Ron Prince and his staff needs to figure out what that is ASAP.

[The Manhatter]

These kids understand what Brian is doing. He is helping them maximize their ability, and he is using their talent as a canvas for Wichita football. There are three or four juniors to be that will benefit from this exposure. There are more kids down the line. Brian is already working with some eighth-graders, kids who accompanied the Browns on their unofficial visits to K-State.

great point.  Truthfully..Wichita needs this and I'm glad he's doing it.  For selfish reasons I want the Browns and Harper in Manhattan and maybe they will..who knows.  But there isn't a sould around who can say this is all bad..if thinking altruistically.

And what JMart points out...some of the 8th graders..that is what Wichita has needed.  Some direction and vision.  There have been some talented kids in Wichita that never made it out because they had NOTHING to point to..opportunities have been missed in the past.  Some great players have come out of there who could have been role models or at least fostered relationships w/ those who could have provided assistance to guide kids in that same direction.  This helps immensely...and it great for kids in Kansas in general.

As far as Television...JMart, when KSU is good we are on television a lot.  I remember in 2000 the Wildcats were on television, what, 12 of the 14 games? 

Bottom line...if Prince brings in a few difference makers on either side of the ball and builds an offensive line he's going to be successful.  I know some here don't think that can happen but I will tell you...this first year pointed out some very good things and one of those was special teams play.  That special teams play was about as good as some of Snyder's best teams.  The better coaches, at least the ones who are consistently good, will have very good special teams play.

You need three things to be a consistent winner as a program...good special teams, good defenses, and good offensive lines.  I'm confident Prince will have good special teams and good offensive lines.  He's proven in the latter and his first year demonstrated his focus on special teams.  Now he needs to build good defenses. 

[Leyton]

I know that Prince has coached O-lines in the past, but what makes him "proven?"  D'Brickshaw Ferguson?  I'm very happy with Prince in general (especially now that he seems to be making love to the microphone a little less often), but I was shocked that our line was yet again awful for much of last year.  I've read things about spring ball that made it sound like the O-line will be another big concern this year.  At what point does Prince's experience with O-lines begin to pay off in recruiting or on the field?

[ksuno1stunner]

I know that Prince has coached O-lines in the past, but what makes him "proven?"  D'Brickshaw Ferguson?  I'm very happy with Prince in general (especially now that he seems to be making love to the microphone a little less often), but I was shocked that our line was yet again awful for much of last year.  I've read things about spring ball that made it sound like the O-line will be another big concern this year.  At what point does Prince's experience with O-lines begin to pay off in recruiting or on the field?

I really don't think the line will be as bad as it apparently was at the spring game.  We just need them to stay healthy.

[ksuno1stunner]

The good thing though is that unless Butler can churn out Arthur Brown clones year after year, he needs KSU and ku more than we need him.  Just kinda restating what's been mentioned.  But I like my word choice.

[The Manhatter]

I know that Prince has coached O-lines in the past, but what makes him "proven?"  D'Brickshaw Ferguson?  I'm very happy with Prince in general (especially now that he seems to be making love to the microphone a little less often), but I was shocked that our line was yet again awful for much of last year.  I've read things about spring ball that made it sound like the O-line will be another big concern this year.  At what point does Prince's experience with O-lines begin to pay off in recruiting or on the field?

lol, it's not just D'Brickashaw.  He also took several kids, in a short time, at UVA who were one offer type kids and built them into NFL draft picks.  He had the BEST OL in the NCAA in 2004.  Not too many people would debate that either...at least none who had a clue of what they were talking about.

Who cares about last year...you don't build a good or great OL overnight.  First of all he has not even recruited the type of personnel he wants running his OL...he had to go w/ what Snyder recruited.  And all of those kids had to learn a completely new offense.  It doesn't happen like snapping your fingers...coaches are good but they are not magicians and faith healers rolled into one.  To question Prince for last year or even this coming year is..well, foolish.  Let him build his OL...I promise you that he will build one. 

And it was not all lost...last year we were +1.4 ypc in Big 12 play vs. '05.   It's moving in the right direction regardless of what some of our spoiled and impatient asses might think.

[Leyton]

It's moving in the right direction regardless of what some of our spoiled and impatient asses might think.

 

Yeah.  I mean...I'm not ready to give up on Prince's O-line skills or anything.  I was asking because I genuinely couldn't remember the justification that I was somewhat satisfied with, which was that he doesn't have the kind of O-linemen whose body types work well with his schemes.  You reminded me...thanks.

[chum1]

How can you forget?  It's the same rationalizations every year.

[waks]

I saw Alesana Alesana at the rec. Apparently he is there all of the time. The guy is HUGE.