Date: 18/07/25 - 08:27 AM   48060 Topics and 694399 Posts

Author Topic: Worst investment ever  (Read 5720 times)

May 22, 2007, 03:36:49 PM
Reply #30

jeffy

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My car is a beast...bought it 7 years ago for $2000, now has 188,000 miles on in, haven't had any major repairs.  I need to upgrade, so I'm looking at an 07' mustang...me likey!

Sounds more like you WANT and upgrade rather than you NEED an upgrade.  You could throw $500/month* into a money market for a year and make 5%, then use that money at the end of the year.  Or, if you could wait a little longer....

1 year = $6125
2 years = $12,647
3 years = $19,460

That's $2232 you just paid yourself in 3 years, rather than giving it to the bank.  Then you could pay for the car in its entirety and don't run the risk of being upside-down on your payments, if something were to happen to the car and you still owed on it.

*$500 is an assumed number.  Use the amount you would make for a payment and monthly insurance costs.

http://www.youngmoney.com/calculators/savings_calculators/savings_calculator


May 23, 2007, 12:00:44 AM
Reply #31

Racquetball_Ninja

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Don't buy GAP insurance or get a dealer warranty on a used car.

$7000 for a Saturn with 50,000 miles.

I feel pretty good.  Should I?

You should feel good.  Where'd you shop?  I've had really good luck with Carmax, bought a 1-year-old Stratus with 7,000 miles on it for $12,000.  Blue book had it at or near $16,000.  Carfax showed no damage reported so I felt pretty good about that.

May 23, 2007, 12:04:50 AM
Reply #32

mjrod

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Cars aren't investments in the first place; this thread is pointless.

You &*$@!ing idiots.

Quote
2. to use (money), as in accumulating something
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/invest

Unless you trade cars for money (by fixing them up or belonging to a car club), buying a car is NOT an investment WHETHER you buy a new car or not.

No car retains it's value unless you hardly drive it for 20 years, and it's a limited edition model.

So unless you have anything else to add, the thread is completely pointless.





May 23, 2007, 01:46:57 AM
Reply #33

ksuno1stunner

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  For instance, GM is having 0% interest for 5 years on a 07 cars now because a lot of 08's will be out in the next month.  Why in gods green earth would you pay off a car when you could be using that money to get atleast 2% or so return in a freik'n savings account?  Especially since 0% financing doesn't cost you anything?


Good idea if you wanted to buy a new car -- but if you're only getting 2% in a savings account, you're not trying hard enough.  Check out IngDirect, Emigrant, Citi savings, etc.  Easy way to get 4.5% - 5%.



So you haven't figured out yet that the interest is basically added into the base price?  They aren't losing anything on this deal. 

And why pay off the car? 
1.  Debt sucks.
2.  Making payments on a totaled/wrecked car sucks.
3.  I'd rather pay the car off, then stick additional money into something that will get me 10-15% interest.

Personally, I follow more along Stunner's line -- I bought a cheaper 7 year old luxury car w/ low mileage several years ago and plan on driving it into the ground. 

You know, a year and a half ago we got a 1998 Lexus sc300 w/ 65,000 miles on it, perfect condition, no problems whatsoever, for $14,000.  It now has about 75,000 miles.

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=220186586&dealer_id=57629925&car_year=1999&search_type=both&num_records=25&keywordsfyc=&make=LEXUS&transmission=&make3=&model=SC300&distance=200&make2=LEXUS&address=66503&default_sort=priceDESC&advanced=&certified=&model2=SC400&max_mileage=&max_price=&sort_type=priceDESC&min_price=&body_code=0&end_year=2008&keywordsrep=&color=&start_year=1981&drive=&engine=&fuel=&doors=&style_flag=1&cardist=117
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=220880661&dealer_id=53593193&car_year=1997&search_type=both&num_records=25&keywordsfyc=&make=LEXUS&transmission=&make3=&model=SC300&distance=300&make2=LEXUS&address=66503&default_sort=priceDESC&advanced=&certified=&model2=SC400&max_mileage=&max_price=&sort_type=priceDESC&min_price=&body_code=0&end_year=2008&keywordsrep=&color=&start_year=1981&drive=&engine=&fuel=&doors=&style_flag=1&cardist=263
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=220593399&dealer_id=621443&car_year=1998&search_type=both&num_records=25&keywordsfyc=&make=LEXUS&transmission=&make3=&model=SC300&distance=300&make2=LEXUS&address=66503&default_sort=priceDESC&advanced=&certified=&model2=SC400&max_mileage=&max_price=&sort_type=priceDESC&min_price=&body_code=0&end_year=2008&keywordsrep=&color=&start_year=1981&drive=&engine=&fuel=&doors=&style_flag=1&cardist=218

&@#%ers don't lose value.

May 23, 2007, 02:02:30 AM
Reply #34

swish1

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Best investment ever.......and the chicks dig it.   8)




your saturn was much more badass than a moped ever will be.

May 23, 2007, 08:15:47 AM
Reply #35

jeffy

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Mopeds are just like fat women.... fun to ride, but you don't want your friends to find out.

May 23, 2007, 06:26:46 PM
Reply #36

FBWillie

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So you haven't figured out yet that the interest is basically added into the base price?  They aren't losing anything on this deal. 

And why pay off the car? 
1.  Debt sucks.
2.  Making payments on a totaled/wrecked car sucks.
3.  I'd rather pay the car off, then stick additional money into something that will get me 10-15% interest.

the buying price of the vehicle doesn't change regardless of the interest rate you recieve... so, no the the loss of finance charges isn't re-couped in the base price of the vehicle.  Whoever told you that knows nothing about how a dealership works.  Very few dealerships do in-house financing.  So, recouping the cost that you would inevitable make through finance charges isn't even possible.  The lender and the dealership are two seperate Companies. GMAC, who typically offers 0%, is a lender owned by GM... not the private franchise owner of a GM dealership.

This is the dumbed down version of how new car sales works between Manufacturer and Franchise dearlerships
Manufacturer allows certain allotment of vehicles per dealership depending on market area, past sales history, and customer satisfaction.
Manufacturer sells vehicles the dealership at an invoice cost minus cost of dealer hold-back to cover cleaning of cars - gas fillups when car is sold - etc.
Dealer sells vehicles at the MSRP (manufacturers suggested retail price) to make a profit. Some dealers will tack on a Market area adjustment for rare cars or add on aftermarket equipment to boost profit.

Custumer then decides how they want to finance the vehicle. 
Dealerships assist with the paperwork/financing much like a broker would, but they do not lend the money.
The finance person is basically making money from what the lenders pay them through holding interest points, selling extended service contracts, GAP protection etc.

It makes no difference to the dealer if a customer gets 20% from their own bank or 0% from GMAC.  They're still selling cars and increasing their market area.

Who is taking the loss on 0% would be the manufacturer, but it doesn't matter to them, because they just want to move inventory to make room for new model year inventory that people are willing to pay 6% interest with no incentives to buy.   Make sense? 

So you buying a car at 0% is a great deal for you.  You get the same car, at the same price as when people were paying 6% earler in the model year.   You just don't have to rap up all your money paying finance charges. 

As for paying the car off; it's really more of a personal choice. There's benefeits to either; I just don't see the point in sinking money into a depreciating asset when you could put into an appreciating asset.
The comments posted above do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of FBWillie

May 23, 2007, 07:36:34 PM
Reply #37

waks

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  For instance, GM is having 0% interest for 5 years on a 07 cars now because a lot of 08's will be out in the next month.  Why in gods green earth would you pay off a car when you could be using that money to get atleast 2% or so return in a freik'n savings account?  Especially since 0% financing doesn't cost you anything?


Good idea if you wanted to buy a new car -- but if you're only getting 2% in a savings account, you're not trying hard enough.  Check out IngDirect, Emigrant, Citi savings, etc.  Easy way to get 4.5% - 5%.



So you haven't figured out yet that the interest is basically added into the base price?  They aren't losing anything on this deal. 

And why pay off the car? 
1.  Debt sucks.
2.  Making payments on a totaled/wrecked car sucks.
3.  I'd rather pay the car off, then stick additional money into something that will get me 10-15% interest.

Personally, I follow more along Stunner's line -- I bought a cheaper 7 year old luxury car w/ low mileage several years ago and plan on driving it into the ground. 

You know, a year and a half ago we got a 1998 Lexus sc300 w/ 65,000 miles on it, perfect condition, no problems whatsoever, for $14,000.  It now has about 75,000 miles.

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=220186586&dealer_id=57629925&car_year=1999&search_type=both&num_records=25&keywordsfyc=&make=LEXUS&transmission=&make3=&model=SC300&distance=200&make2=LEXUS&address=66503&default_sort=priceDESC&advanced=&certified=&model2=SC400&max_mileage=&max_price=&sort_type=priceDESC&min_price=&body_code=0&end_year=2008&keywordsrep=&color=&start_year=1981&drive=&engine=&fuel=&doors=&style_flag=1&cardist=117
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=220880661&dealer_id=53593193&car_year=1997&search_type=both&num_records=25&keywordsfyc=&make=LEXUS&transmission=&make3=&model=SC300&distance=300&make2=LEXUS&address=66503&default_sort=priceDESC&advanced=&certified=&model2=SC400&max_mileage=&max_price=&sort_type=priceDESC&min_price=&body_code=0&end_year=2008&keywordsrep=&color=&start_year=1981&drive=&engine=&fuel=&doors=&style_flag=1&cardist=263
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=220593399&dealer_id=621443&car_year=1998&search_type=both&num_records=25&keywordsfyc=&make=LEXUS&transmission=&make3=&model=SC300&distance=300&make2=LEXUS&address=66503&default_sort=priceDESC&advanced=&certified=&model2=SC400&max_mileage=&max_price=&sort_type=priceDESC&min_price=&body_code=0&end_year=2008&keywordsrep=&color=&start_year=1981&drive=&engine=&fuel=&doors=&style_flag=1&cardist=218

&*$@!ers don't lose value.
That's because Lexus is made by Toyota. Try that crap with a Cadillac.

May 23, 2007, 10:19:20 PM
Reply #38

jeffy

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As for paying the car off; it's really more of a personal choice. There's benefeits to either; I just don't see the point in sinking money into a depreciating asset when you could put into an appreciating asset.

It's all about risk.  If you wish to maintain a car payment, then you run several risks.  The first is being upside-down.  That is owing more on the car than it is worth (which happens as soon as you put your name on the line), should it get wrecked, etc. and become undrivable.  Making payments on a car that someone no longer owns is one of the causes of financial troubles in the US today.  The second is removing liquidity from your income.  Having all my vehicles paid for, I now have several hundred more dollars of expendable income.  Much, if not all of this cash goes into an investment, which offsets any depreciation.  Of course, one of the big keys to this is to let someone pay most of the depreciation.  Buy a car that's 3 or 4 years old and may have 20-50K miles on it.  The large part of depreciation occurs in those first few years.  I'm also putting money every month into an account which will go toward the next vehicle.  It is growing at a little better than the inflation rate until I'm ready to buy the next car.

May 24, 2007, 09:39:55 AM
Reply #39

FBWillie

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... should it get wrecked, etc. and become undrivable.  Making payments on a car that someone no longer owns is one of the causes of financial troubles in the US today.  

Non-excuse: This isn't a problem if you can afford to pay the car off when you first buy it.  If you finance rather than paying off, you should still have that money laying around... unless you blow it all on hookers and booze... in which case no one would really feel sorry for you.... but we'd all understand.
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May 24, 2007, 09:53:03 AM
Reply #40

michigancat

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I think you guys are kind of arguing two different things:

If you're dumb enough to buy a new car, 0% financing makes more sense than paying cash (assuming you pay it off before the 0% period is up).

I think jeffy is suggesting that people should buy used cars they can afford to pay cash for rather than getting upside down on a new car they can't afford, which happens all the time.

2 different things.

May 24, 2007, 10:10:16 AM
Reply #41

FBWillie

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I guess I just don't agree with the reasoning that buying a new car is stupid. 

Having a new car that no one has ever driven is friek'n nice. 
Having a warrenty that covers most things that go wrong with the car is nice.
Every car I've ever owned, I've sold within 3-4 years.  If you still owe too much on a car after 3-4 years... only then should you be considered stupid.

If you're that worried about being in  negative equity situation, don't finance longer than 4 years and buy GAP protection in case of a wreck....   Most gap plans at a good interest rate will only tack on lik $10/month to your payment... a small price to pay if you can't afford to pay the difference of what your insurance company will pay and what you owe.
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May 24, 2007, 10:19:04 AM
Reply #42

jeffy

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... should it get wrecked, etc. and become undrivable.  Making payments on a car that someone no longer owns is one of the causes of financial troubles in the US today.   

Non-excuse: This isn't a problem if you can afford to pay the car off when you first buy it.  If you finance rather than paying off, you should still have that money laying around... unless you blow it all on hookers and booze... in which case no one would really feel sorry for you.... but we'd all understand.

What I need to mention is that any purchase of a vehicle, or anything else for that matter, should be part of your overall financial plan.  Just because you can go out and buy a new car, whether on financing or not, doesn't mean you should buy it.  You've got to maintain a level of security in your life, rather than buying "stuff" just because.  Keep some cash on-hand.  3-6 months worth of expenses is about right.  Then find out if that vehicle you want (rather than NEED) fits within your budget.

Here's a little video about buying cars that may be of interest.

May 24, 2007, 10:23:25 AM
Reply #43

michigancat

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Every car I've ever owned, I've sold within 3-4 years.  If you still owe too much on a car after 3-4 years... only then should you be considered stupid.

No, I think owning a new car for 3-4 years and eating the significant depreciation would suffice.

Really, the only advantage of a new car is the stability of a warranty.  Otherwise, it makes absolutely no fiscal sense.

May 24, 2007, 10:29:07 AM
Reply #44

WildCatzPhreak

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How much does a new car depreciate in 4 years?  I mean, what's the average percentage difference if I bought a used car from 2004 compared to what the original owner paid back then?  75% of original value?  Less?  More?

May 24, 2007, 10:44:23 AM
Reply #45

michigancat

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How much does a new car depreciate in 4 years?  I mean, what's the average percentage difference if I bought a used car from 2004 compared to what the original owner paid back then?  75% of original value?  Less?  More?

Quote
Depreciation

A major disadvantage to buying a new car is the rapid depreciation it undergoes in the first few years. Models typically lose about 45 percent of their value in the first three years, compared with 25 percent over the next three. But this varies greatly among models. The 2004 BMW 3 Series, for example, has held its value relatively well (about 25 percent depreciation over the first three years), while the 2004 Cadillac Seville has depreciated rapidly (about 60 percent).

Several factors determine depreciation, including the model's popularity, perceived quality, supply, and whether or not the vehicle is of the current design. The average depreciation on a $27,500 vehicle leaves little more than $15,000 after three years, a huge hit in residual value.

http://autos.msn.com/advice/CRArt.aspx?contentid=4023794

May 24, 2007, 10:50:48 AM
Reply #46

WildCatzPhreak

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Holy crap.  I don't think I'll ever buy a new car.  The difference in value is ridiculous.

May 24, 2007, 11:17:43 AM
Reply #47

FBWillie

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No, I think owning a new car for 3-4 years and eating the significant depreciation would suffice.

Really, the only advantage of a new car is the stability of a warranty.  Otherwise, it makes absolutely no fiscal sense.

The last used car I bought I ended up sinking 3 grand into it for repair work...   Not immediately mind you...   3 years into the ownership of the vehicle... I was actually planning on selling it within the next year, but ended up keeping it 5 total years because of the money I had just spent on it.  So, It's still a gamble.  I might conisider someone stupid for buying a used car that's going to need a new timing belt/water pump/plugs and wires/fluid flushes etc. within the next 25k miles.   
Not to mention that some cars may still deprecaiate 20-30% each year you own it. Even after buying them used.  So depending on your luck, you may end up in worse shape buying used than if you had purchased the vehicle new.

It's all a crap shoot.

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May 24, 2007, 11:17:57 AM
Reply #48

FBWillie

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You're also not taking into account that you can recoup some of your depreciation losses if you buy at the right time.  Last year in August Saturn was offering 0% and $3000 off the price of an 06 VUE to make room for the 07's.   
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May 24, 2007, 11:23:23 AM
Reply #49

michigancat

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It's all a crap shoot.

Yeah, except for the fact that a new car depreciates 20% or so the second you drive it off the lot.  That will always be a given.

Listen, you just don't understand much about personal finance.  That's okay.

May 24, 2007, 11:36:33 AM
Reply #50

FBWillie

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yeah, I guess so... If I get 0% and immediately save 3k through GMAC incentives on a 20k car, and still have a car that will be covered if it breaks down; and I end up having 0 negative equity after 1 and a half year or so because all of the money I'm paying goes directly to my principal, I"m the dumbass.  Got it.
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May 24, 2007, 11:44:23 AM
Reply #51

michigancat

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yeah, I guess so... If I get 0% and immediately save 3k through GMAC incentives on a 20k car, and still have a car that will be covered if it breaks down; and I end up having 0 negative equity after 1 and a half year or so because all of the money I'm paying goes directly to my principal, I"m the dumbass.  Got it.

Just misguided.

May 24, 2007, 11:52:13 AM
Reply #52

WildCatzPhreak

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Rusty, we need people to buy new cars so that we can buy them used 3 years later for half the price.

May 24, 2007, 11:56:36 AM
Reply #53

michigancat

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    You can't be racist and like basketball.
I like Willie, and I don't like to see people I like make poor decisions.

May 24, 2007, 01:58:27 PM
Reply #54

FBWillie

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I like Willie, and I don't like to see people I like make poor decisions.

I had no idea you liked me.  :blush:
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May 24, 2007, 08:04:55 PM
Reply #55

jeffy

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yeah, I guess so... If I get 0% and immediately save 3k through GMAC incentives on a 20k car, and still have a car that will be covered if it breaks down; and I end up having 0 negative equity after 1 and a half year or so because all of the money I'm paying goes directly to my principal, I"m the dumbass.  Got it.

If you had budgeted for vehicle maintenance, then it wouldn't really matter.  Warranties are written so that there is a high probability of parts not breaking.  Most never have a claim on their warranty.

And an extended warranty is an even worse deal than buying a new car.

May 24, 2007, 08:06:07 PM
Reply #56

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id like to know as many secrets as possible.

keep going.
We all know there's been a conspiracy. Only the failures have been recorded.
We all pay too much attention to Icarus, and not enough to his father.

May 24, 2007, 09:26:24 PM
Reply #57

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99.5 times out of 100, leasing a car is not a good decision

May 24, 2007, 10:44:34 PM
Reply #58

jeffy

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99.5 times out of 100, leasing a car is not a good decision

The only time it's good is when the company is paying the lease.

May 24, 2007, 10:51:14 PM
Reply #59

ECN

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99.5 times out of 100, leasing a car is not a good decision

The only time it's good is when the company is paying the lease.

and when you live 10 miles from:

1. every store you shop at
2. places that are well lit
3. relatives
4. construction free zones
5. strip clubs
We all know there's been a conspiracy. Only the failures have been recorded.
We all pay too much attention to Icarus, and not enough to his father.